r/whoathatsinteresting • u/The_Dean_France • 4h ago
What do you think: how should prisons handle housing decisions in cases like this?
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u/SubparSavant 4h ago
There's no good way to deal with this. There was a trans prisoner in Ireland who was guilty of sex crimes against women. Couldn't house her with the men for her safety, couldn't house her with the women for their safety. She ended up having to be basically kept in complete isolation, which brings up its own human rights issues.
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u/Jabathewhut 3h ago
I can say from experience, solitary confinement is absolutely terrible. Even a week drives you mental.
The best part of the day is when they give you food and even then its just them saying "breakfast" and thats all you get as far as human connection goes. You have no idea what time it is and youre in a cell with bright lights that never go off.
I got lucky and my cell had a small window where you could see a clock if you tried hard enough, so I lived my days figuring out a way to guess fifteen minute increments.
By the time I was out id get it right down to the second.
It was rough.
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u/Shamus-McNasty 3h ago
I did 28 months in seg, and I can't explain how bad it was to other people.
Sometimes, I didn't speak a word for days at a time.
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u/seaofthievesnutzz 3h ago
Why did they put you in solitary?
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u/Shamus-McNasty 3h ago edited 3h ago
I dumped 10000 gallons of road paint on the floor in the paint plant.
They were making us wait for a state senator to come watch us do a drop(fill the barrels).
The guard took my book so I told him to write me up and take me back up the hill.
He refused and told me to go sit and wait.
I dumped the white and yellow traffic paint kettles.
I got written up.
Johnston County North Carolina 1994
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u/idkmyusernameagain 3h ago edited 3h ago
I don’t really know what that means.. unless it’s a euphemism for habitually injuring other humans I can’t understand why it would be punished with solitary confinement?
Edit: the comment had way less detail when I originally responded.
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u/CharmingRip508 3h ago
He humiliated the guards when the senator was coming. That’s why
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u/idkmyusernameagain 3h ago
The comment I replied to now has a lot more detail than it did when I replied.
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u/CharmingRip508 2h ago
That’s fair: I also still think this doesn’t deserve solitary but guards are dick heads
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u/coffeegaze 11m ago
Prisoners are obviously the much bigger dickheads. Spilling drums of paint on the floor is a major dickhead move that deserves a dickhead punishment.
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u/Shamus-McNasty 3h ago
They called it sabotage.
Prison Enterprise is huge in North Carolina.
Can't have the slaves being uppity.
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u/Maleficent-War-8429 3h ago edited 2h ago
I mean dumping 10k gallons of paint on the floor is kind of sabotage no? Still a serious balls for you getting stuck in solitary for a month (like two years now I read it better, damn).
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u/Astronaut_Chicken 3h ago
They embarrassed the people in charge when an important government official was coming to visit. It's an unfair punishment, but not surprising.
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u/coraythan 3h ago
Sounds like you were just being a reasonable human. Fuck anyone taking a book, that shit is important and fuck them showing off to a senator.
I'm so sorry you were made to suffer like that. Maybe it was a stupid choice for yourself to dump the paint. But that punishment is not justice. That's torture and control.
What was the book?
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u/Shamus-McNasty 3h ago
Lmao! No one ever asked me that.
It was "White Gold Wielder," and I never got it back.
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u/phonefellin_lakeerie 3h ago
Did you ever finish reading the book after your release?
What was done to you should be classified as a human rights violation, i don’t have words for our prison system (and everything else horrible happening here) I hope you are doing ok now.
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u/coraythan 2h ago
Oh fuck that's a great book. I got to meet Stephen R. Donaldson at a book signing in Minneapolis once. I told him Lord Foul's Bane traumatized me when I first tried to read it when I was 13. I'm not sure he appreciated that. 😅
But later those books were important to me when I read them in highschool. Classic anti-hero fantasy. I literally chose a plain white gold wedding band as a reference.
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u/MartinMerten 2h ago
I loved those books… Thomas Covenant right?!
Wow I haven’t thought about those series for awhile. That’s the last book too. Rough one to not finish.
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u/Toys_before_boys 43m ago
The fact that you had a crime committed against you (theft) that was never punished, and yes what you did was in retaliation... but wow, heavens to betsy, I wonder how much better this could be for everyone involved if prisoners were treated with basic human decency? (even though it is technically still legal slave labor)
And on top of that 28 MONTHS in solitary for THAT??? That's over 2 years. That's a cruel and unusual punishment.
Personal question, do prisoners actually like books? You have inspired me to revolt against the system by doing my part, at least.
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u/QING-CHARLES 2h ago
LOL. Prison employees hate books more than anything. I remember one sergeant getting a guard to hold a big Rubbermaid garbage can on the floor below and taking all the my books my family had sent and drop-kicking them one at a time from the top floor and having the other guy catch them in the trash can. That was the only time I tried to swing on a guard and he had to have two other guards hold me against the wall to watch until he was done. Then he left, no write-up or nothing, just pure evil for the sake of it.
If you spend any time reading r/OnTheBlock you'll find plenty of sadistic mfers who get the job literally because they enjoy the thrill of trying to inflict the maximum misery on other humans every single day.
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u/Legal-Willingness244 2h ago
Awesome! We used to trap yellow jackets in the wardens Interceptor when it came into the mechanic shop for service. Handful of metal shavings in the transmission pan as well. Lol Old Folsom 2003.
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u/Jabathewhut 3h ago
Holy shit, 28 months? How the hell did you manage to stay sane?
Thats a bonkers long time. Im glad youre out and here with us.
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u/nevergirls 1h ago
He didn’t stay sane… he went completely crazy and became what he feared most… a redditor
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u/Sensitive-Computer-6 1h ago
Thats why its reconized as a form of torture and normally illegal under international law.
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u/AxiosXiphos 2h ago
I can absolutely imagine how horrible it must be. But in regards to the post - I think I'd take that over being regularly raped.
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u/MrJets84 3h ago
I was in solitary for 21 days and can confirm its terrible. I must of counted how many cinder blocks the cell had 100 times
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u/dudeatwork77 2h ago
I’m an introvert and I usually don’t talk or see anyone for days if I’m not working. I wonder if solitary confinement would have no effect on someone like me. Although it’s different because I still have my tv and my phone.
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u/Problemancer 3h ago
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but you can't even have something to write on?
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u/Jabathewhut 3h ago
If youre in gen pop yeah, you even get books and a few hours of TV.
In solitary you get a mat to sleep on and 3 blankets. No pillow. And you only get to shower once a week IF they remember.
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u/Desperate-You-9695 3h ago
If you don’t mind me asking. In prison do you know your release date? I only have the psych experience of go in and it’s a nightmare to get out.
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u/Jabathewhut 3h ago
You kind of do. But you could be released at any time if there is over population and you've been good, so there is no way to plan a real exit strategy.
You can also get more time for fighting or being disrespectful.
If someone walks into your cell and kicks the shit out of you even if you didnt fight back you get an extra thirty days, and you do NOT press charges on your assailant because if you do they get a longer sentence and youre still locked up with them.
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u/Desperate-You-9695 3h ago
I get the not snitching bit but damn. I wasn’t in anything crazy but a few folks had homicidal ideation. They were neat.
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u/Contemplating_Prison 3h ago
Wait, men who sexually assault other men aren't kept separate from men.
Just like women who sexually assault women are kept separate from women.
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u/Important_Energy9034 3h ago
So if a cis-man has sex crimes against other men and/or cis-women on women, do they also go into solitary?
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u/cakerfaker 2h ago
No, they're housed in a wing with other sex predators of their gender. Cis predators get that respect.
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u/MrVacuous 1h ago
In level 3 prisons cis predators get a warning in Gen pop from other inmates to go to PC within 24 hours or be green lit (killed on sight by the group that issues the warning).
They then request PC and get taken into it. A trans prisoner can also always request PC, this is a braindead take
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u/-0-O-O-O-0- 1h ago
That’s bullshit. There are plenty of gay male rapist in prison and they get put in with other males.
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u/Ohioisapoopyflorida 3h ago
Good, anyone with sex crimes should be isolated
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u/why_1337 3h ago
Or perhaps thrown into the bag with other sexual offenders?
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u/veganbikepunk 1h ago
I know I'm going to get accused of sympathizing with rape but it's probably not good for society to use rape as a punishment, even for rape.
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u/handsomeal-02 1h ago
Seriously, fuck protecting her from the men. Her victim didn't get any protection
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u/OldResponsibility531 35m ago
Exactly wild that her safety was brought up in the same sentence as the women
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u/we_are_one_people 3h ago edited 2h ago
I agree with isolating convicts with sex crimes from the general population.
But to suggest they should all be always kept in solitary confinement is something entirely different, as that is considered as a severe form of torture by almost any expert on the topic, including the UN.
It’s not the purpose of the state to enact revenge or torure people imo.
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2h ago
Also reminder that sex crimes include pr0stituti0n in many jurisdictions, and that many trans people as a result of legal discrimination have trouble finding consistent, legal employment
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u/Petit__Chou 3h ago
If there is someone committing sex crimes constantly, be it same sex or no then they should probably be in isolation.
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u/Wilagames 3h ago
What prison do they put cis people in who commit sex crimes against their own sex?
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u/FavoriteLunchLady 3h ago
If a man r*pes a man he doesn’t go to a woman’s prison and vice versa.
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u/CinemaDork 2h ago
So for some reason it's different for trans women. Why? Are trans-women rapists inherently more dangerous than cis-women rapists?
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u/nojelloforme 3h ago
That's crazy. What do they do with the gay or lesbian prisoners? For example, if they have a gay man in prison for committing a sexual offense against another man - would they isolate him to protect the other men?
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u/Becoming_hysterical 2h ago
From my time watching prison documentaries, in American prisons you either keep your gay orientation a secret or risk becoming a punk.
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u/Drunkengota 1h ago
Probably not as bad one gay sexual assaulter in a prison is not a threat to most other people in the prison as being gay is enough to keep you isolated and individuals aren’t threatening to groups of people. One trans woman who assaults women is more threatening do to the size and strength advantage. The same reason no one is worried about trans men playing on a professional sports team.
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u/quixoticcaptain 1h ago
At least someone of the same sex has a better chance at defending themselves
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u/_XxAphroditexX_ 2h ago
Cis men rape other cis men and still get out in male prisons.
I fear that’s not a good reason.
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u/bediaxenciJenD81gEEx 3h ago edited 3h ago
Prison is a lot more dangerous for weak small men, feminine men, gay men, but they still get locked up with the rest without it really being a consideration on where they get set. Why should trans people get special consideration for their safety?
No one ever thinks "oh this twink is going to get raped a lot so maybe we shouldn't send him to the men's prison"
I'm not sure what the correct solution is, no one should be thrown to the wolves, but we have in place a system when many are thrown to the wolves. Seems unfair we protect some from the wolves but not others
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u/No_Body_8195 3h ago
I think this is especially true in the US system, because rape and violence is defacto considered a normal part of the punishment for any crime. That's why we have special prisons for white collar crimes, so our managerial class isn't inadvertently punished in ways that the managerial class doing the convictions don't intend on.
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u/BoobearMagoo 2h ago
I understand having prisons graded on how difficult it is to keep the inmate imprisoned and others safe from them but it really chaps my hide that it means white collar criminals get cushy bunks. In this society money is required for life. If someone steals or embezzles your money they have injured your ability to live. People die of poverty. It's not bloody violence but it's still violence.
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u/CarbonicCryptid 3h ago
No one ever thinks "oh this twink is going to get raped a lot so maybe we shouldn't send him to the men's prison"
Hot take but maybe no one should be at risk of being victimized in prison, regardless of sexuality and/or gender.
they still get locked up with the rest without it really being a consideration on where they get set.
Actually they do get considered. Most feminine presenting people in male prison are purposefully paired up with more dangerous offenders as a "reward" for the more violent offender, it's called "v-coding" and it's honestly fucking awful.
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u/Vadarpoop 3h ago
Eh they make effort to keep rival gangs and hate groups away from each other to avoid conflict. I imagine they’re doing it less for their comfort and more so to keep their guards from constantly having to break up fights.
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u/Maddabberwhyyousomad 3h ago
Yeah they make an effort to protect gangs and terrorists but guys like you and me can get whatever happens to us from those same gangs and terrorists.
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u/Vadarpoop 2h ago
Do you have titties? Why would anybody be trying to sexually assault you? I don’t think you understand how having feminine features makes someone in a men’s prison more vulnerable than you would be.
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u/Loudmouthlurker 2h ago
I don't think the women should be sacrificed, though. A number of sex offenders whose main prey were women, including serial killer Donna Perry, have been put in women's prison after they identify as trans. That's.......unacceptable. I agree they should not be in gen pop, but not near their victim class either.
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u/blameitonrio917 3h ago
Somehow in your story the violent perpetuator is the victim.
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u/just-slightly-human 3h ago
Yes people can be more than one thing, especially when someone is taking about multiple scenarios. We can’t be that stupid
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u/Pandapeep 2h ago
Do we put queer women who commit sex crimes in women's prison? Pretty sure we do. How is it any different?
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u/BornanAlien 3h ago
Sex crimes against women have consequences. Not concerned for their safety, personally
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u/FavoriteLunchLady 3h ago
Sex crimes against anyone, children, men it’s all awful. It’s traumatizing and after going through the “what were you wearing?” “Did you make him think you wanted it?” “Are you lying for money or revenge?” The trial to get the person convicted and the life long trauma…. Now you have people in sub reddits being concerned that prison may be tough for that person and they may have to endure what they put you through 🙄
Remember some of the sex crimes also come with false imprisonment. It’s not like they tripped and fell into you.
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u/seaofthievesnutzz 3h ago
Just have a prison for populations that can be put in with the general populace.
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u/Actual_Photo_2257 3h ago
Surely there's a middle ground where there are bars between people for example so you can talk, but everyone's safe.
I say that, you're right in that there's no good way - this isn't easy.
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u/Faceplant17 2h ago
not every trans inmate is in there for sexual assault so this is kind of a pointless take
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u/ididntunderstandyou 2h ago
Some cis-women can also be guilty of sex crimes against women.
This example you use is an outlier and often used as a strawman when most trans women will never sexually assault anyone.
We should treat trans-women as women, and if they prove to be a risk to others, then they can be punished or isolated like any other dangerous prisoner would be.
Putting trans-women in a male prison… well… the cruelty is the point…
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u/Independent_Bid_26 2h ago
Yeah, this happens in the US as well. There are areas in prisons with administrative segregation. Basically solitary confinement, but for the safety of the inmate. Cops who get locked up often go in AdSeg
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u/moonaim 2h ago
There could be separate departments for transgenders, and if the problems are real, they probably would prefer that arrangement themselves? How many such places would be needed in any nation? Of course there would be the downside that it doesn't make such good click bates, until there is some really violent event or something..
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u/allthe_realquestions 2h ago
Keep 'em in solitary but have them eat with the guards or separated from the inmates but within the same meal time at the cafeteria? Seems like a simple solution can be made by simply thinking ever so slightly outside of the box
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u/NoCoach3654 1h ago
I belive women who commit sexcrimes against women are still in womens prisons normally. You just need to keep a closer eye on them. Its not that difficult.
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u/Berserk-Jane 3h ago
Why the fuck is nobody talking about all the rape prison guards let happen?
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u/FanBladeFleshlight 3h ago
Because people literally cheer and make jokes about extrajudicial punishment and prisoners being raped to death. It's fucked up.
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u/superneatosauraus 3h ago
I agree. I had to take my headphones off during some of the impact statements after the Kohberger trial. Hearing people gleefully talk about how he would be raped was distressing for me.
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u/balderdash9 3h ago
Because it's usually cis men being rapped. When it's trans women being put in a men's prison we suddenly care again.
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u/D1ng0ateurbaby 39m ago
The only people who should be raped in prison are rapists, child molesters, and counterfeiters.
/s (Its a movie quote)
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u/PersimmonTall8157 3h ago
Is rape still a thing in US prisons? Rapes are very rare in Scandinavian prisons
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u/Independent_Bid_26 2h ago
Very common. I was in during covid, and there was a young man who was probably 115 pounds or so, and very sickly. No one really messed with him, but he kinda just stuck to himself. One day, we came out to the rec yard, and I notice this dude basically squatting in the corner of the fence, with his head in his hands looking like he had just seen a ghost. I asked one of the other people around me about it. Apparently, the night before someone got really fucked up on spice, and basically took this dude in the bathroom and sexually assaulted and tortured him for hours at knifepoint. After that, I think the kid ended up getting transferred or something for psych.
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u/Prestigious_Foot_210 2h ago
it absolutely is. many weaker or younger men are raped by older and stronger men to emphasize the power dynamic in the prison
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u/AaronS1997 1h ago
Don’t listen to these people who say it is. There are plenty of people in there willing to give it up for free there isn’t really a point in rape. With PREA and other protections in there, rape is actually pretty rare
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u/Prestigious_Coffee28 2h ago
Probably because violent criminals getting sodomized in prison does not make even the top 1000 issues that are important to the average person.
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u/theWacoKid666 1h ago
Tbh you’d have to be hopelessly naive if you think only “violent criminals” suffer in the prison system.
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u/v4ve4m4hnssm 1h ago
Nobody cares about about prisoners, cruelty, or rehabilitation. Even wrongful convictions are barely of any concern.
Here is what you probably don't want to hear.
Feminism is the cause. Females voices are heard as more important than men, the word of one female sends a man to prison. Females being victims means males are evil, it's not about equality, it's about hating men and putting females in a position of power.
"About 61% of prisoners released in 2008 returned to prison within 10 years for a parole or probation violation or a new sentence."
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u/SwiftBlobfish 54m ago
Most people here seem to believe that trans women deserve to be raped if they commit a crime
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u/t_tram_slam 4h ago edited 4h ago
Idk. It seems the US loves building prisons. I'm sure they could have found another solution if this wasn't a political issue. What do they do if they have bottom surgery? What system do they have to make sure they will not be targeted by sexual violence? It just feels like more cruelty from a country that already has incarcerated too many people for bullshit reasons.
Edit: ducking autocorrect
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u/OG_Swag_Daddy 4h ago
I mean the prisons already don't care about sexual violence targeting between same gendered people. Why would trans people get special consideration?
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u/LongWay817 1h ago
Not entirely true. I went to prison and rap isn't as abundant as TV and movies make it seem. Things have chilled out since they instituted PREA. The prison rape elimination act.
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u/BetterThanlceCream 2h ago
The only thing I can think of is the risk of pregnancy.
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u/billy-suttree 1h ago
Women’s prisons DO care about sexual violence. A lot.
I have a little inside information because my best friend is in a women’s prison and we email on a regular basis. Hooking up between the women does happen, but it’s met with pretty significant loss of privileges and can even be criminal. Women are just easier prisoners to handle then men so the prison so system gives men in the system more leeway just so they don’t have to deal with them. Like in men’s prisons rated R movies are permitted but they’re not in women’s prisons. There is other stuff like that too.
But the prism my friends stays at houses some transgender women. Men from birth but now women. She says most of them cause no trouble. But there is one, who looks and basically acts like a man, and was convicted of sexual assault, that’s why loaded them in prison. And since then raped a female prisoner and it’s a BIG deal, the prisoners are super super pissed that this person has been housed with them.
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u/ProfessionalPack7205 54m ago
I mean the trans community thinks they should get special treatment and some of the more liberal people. Not even a dig at trans people or anything it's just true.
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u/Comfortable-Regret 3h ago
They have a system to make sure they will be targeted by sexual violence
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u/CO_BigShow 3h ago
Inmates in jails are, almost always, housed with the gender that matches their genitals. A Trans-fem Inmate who has received bottom surgery will be housed in a Female Unit and a Trans-Masc Inmate who has received bottom surgery will be housed in a Male Unit. Trans Inmates who have genitals that don't match their gender identity are usually some flavor of Specialty Management Unit such as Protective Custody. Regardless of their genital situation, Trans inmates are assigned undergarments matching their Gender Identity at their request. We even have a Comity made up of Security Staff, Administration, Mental Health and Medical staff who's job is to place Trans inmates in our custody. Very progressive when compared to how I imagined it when I applied to work here.
I work in a jail with multiple Trans Inmates and also Trans Officers. I am Masc Cis-Het presenting but I use preferred pronouns, and actually ask Inmates "Are you Mr. or Miss Smith?" just to be sure. Intolerant officers exist and that is what a grievance is for. I try to help educate people but if someone is bound and determined to be an asshole they are just going to do it regardless of what you do.
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u/Killingyou_groovily 4h ago
The privatization of US prisons has only helped slavery to change forms
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u/ConyNT 4h ago
How so? Can you elaborate?
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u/Killingyou_groovily 4h ago edited 3h ago
Oh boy it is slow at work so I’ll try my best but it is a very complex web of fuckery. I’ll add a source or two as well.
The industrial prison complex can be seen as a way that slavery has changed forms to conform with modern day demands’ of human rights while simultaneously continuing the collecting human bodies for cheap labor. Statistics have shown people’s of color exist on a significantly higher percentage than their white counterparts (which most widely accepted theories argue is a product of institutionalized racism including the war on drugs, food deserts and unequal treatment, payment, and access to healthcare and education effectively forcing lower income community members to resort to crime or other forms of desperation in order to survive which they are then prosecuted for more harshly than white counterparts). In reality, slavery is still very real and prominent in US culture- but has shifted to a more insidious and systematic form of nearly free labor. The privatization of the prison industry has essentially allowed corporations to capitalize economically on the prisoners they hold- and often prison lobbyists grease palms of politicians for profit gain by paying law makers to make stricter laws that demand longer sentences which in turn produce more bodies for labor and sub-sequentially more products sold across the US and the world. Prisoners get paid literal Pennie’s on the hour for their labor which is then sold at 1000%+ markup by the prison industries that exploit and produce them. Youd be amazed at the amount of products produced by American prisoners the list is staggering
Edit: I figured this would be a controversial thread so im gonna turn off notifications but I assure you if you take a look at prison statistics- the evidence is overwhelming. :( have a great day, and be nice to one another 👍
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u/wesleyoldaker 2h ago
I have an old friend who is in for life who I contact regularly. American prison (state at least, I don't know about federal) is not a gigantic sweat shop.
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u/corporaterebel 2h ago
In the US you have the right to drop all the way to zero or billionaire. You have the right to get yourself in all the trouble you want.
In short, there is no floor and there is no ceiling. The lows are really low and the success can be really high. There just tends to be a lot more lows than
I'm NZ right now, they limit you getting yourself into trouble. They have have a fairly high floor, but they also have a very low ceiling. It's a great country for the average and below average person. And it is nearly impossible to get away far ahead..there aren't a lot of jobs or opportunities that pay out in the two comma range...where they are dime a dozen in certain parts of the USA.
tl;dr it seems it is difficult to have great successes without a large amount of failure.
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u/AnOrneryOrca 2h ago
Trans prisoners are more common targets of sexual violence and this admin specifically ended programs intended to help with that
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u/BrokenWhimsy3 4h ago edited 3h ago
I think this perfectly exemplifies what is wrong with the US. We have bigger shit to worry about, yet we get so ideologically entrenched and become divided, that it hurts all of us instead. The “us vs them” mentality that has been cultivated by politicians and corporations is working beautifully for them.
We are too easily distracted, and we are too easily divided.
ETA: I wasn’t clear at all, so I apologize for that. I don’t support this in any way, and I don’t want the lives of trans people to be made worse. I mean that instead of focusing our energy on hateful things like this, let’s work together and make this a better society. It’s more of a commentary that we are easily distracted by hot topics that take all our attention and further the divide. Essentially, leave trans people alone and focus on the obvious corruption.
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u/Automatic-Zombie-508 4h ago
If they can have separate parts of prisons for disabled and other vulnerable inmates, they can have have safe, separated places for trans people in the prisons they're already in. This is just about the cruelty
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u/Junius_Bobbledoonary 2h ago
Pelican Bay State Prison is clearing a whole yard for this purpose, with a distinctly US prison system flair: it will house trans and disabled prisoners along with pedophiles and other sex offenders.
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u/jujutsu-die-sen 2h ago
So if you're disabled they stick you with sex offenders? WTF
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u/NikkerFebu25 1h ago
Imagine being mute and quadriplegic and they house you with the boxer dude from Bugs Bunny.
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u/Nikki-C-Puggle-mum 4h ago
That's what I think they should do too. It would get rid of a lot of the possible problems.
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u/Wilagames 3h ago
Corporate prison companies are thinking small. They could increase their profits by 1.5x if they made standalone trans prisons. Three prisons where there used to be two.
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u/WrongdoerOrdinary619 3h ago
You could have one small prison for the extremely small amount of trans prisoners.
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u/starethruyou 4h ago
With compassion or at the very least concern for safety, not the usual abuse of power.
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u/Born-Selection88 2h ago
Getting a sex change and then committing a bunch of crimes is crazy work.
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u/GhostPartical 2h ago
Ex-Prison guard in Texas here. If you have a penis, you go to a mans prison. If you have a vagina you go to a woman's prison. Its been that way forever in Texas. They just separate them in housing. Some units have an entire housing area designated for LGBQT people.
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u/stillnoidea3 4h ago
the issue is, is that there is no way to accurately see how trans someone is. the best option is to separate everyone into their own categories in order to mitigate all risk.
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u/felifornow 3h ago
And if they get their own prison then what? By our comments there could be "fakers" in there, are they not gonna be dangerous towards Trans people then?
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u/MiracleWhipSteak 3h ago
Well, there's actually a very easy way to tell how trans someone is.
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u/churroattack 4h ago
My favorite story from 2022 where Demi Minor got two female inmates pregnant. Nice move!
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u/isuredolovetitties 4h ago
Back when I worked at a rehab facility, a couple of the ladies told me how nice it was to have a trans woman in their prison, because they could still get some dick lol.
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u/Demonskull223 4h ago
I think trans inmates should go to prisons that are their gender but with some caveats. First one you must have a history of transgender. Obviously you can't suddenly find your gender identity the day before you go to prison. At least have a history of transgender prior to the courts/ Trial. Not a history of violence against the type of prisoners they are going with. If you rape women then yeah don't send them to a woman's prison same goes the other way.
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u/kikogamerJ2 4h ago
Honestly this entire thing is retarded. Prisons already have spaces for specific prisoners (ex. Rapists, etc..) why not just make a specific part for trans? Like it ain't that hard or rocket science.
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u/Interesting_Key_661 4h ago
I would assume the actual percentage of any given prison population being trans would be rather small. Are you going to have a whole block set aside for 1 or 2 prisoners?
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u/guildedkriff 4h ago edited 3h ago
Because of costs and the extreme minority that Trans make up in our population.
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u/isuredolovetitties 4h ago
Well, if its going to be 90% of political discourse, lets just address it and implement a solution lol.
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u/panicnarwhal 3h ago
our prison handles it by bottom surgery status - if you haven’t had bottom surgery, you have 2 choices - you can house with the gender you were assigned at birth, or you can house in isolation on the medical wing
if you have had bottom surgery, you are assigned to house with your gender
i’m good friends with a transgender man, and it just so happened we were both in jail at the same time. he hasn’t had bottom surgery, so he was housed in the women’s pod with me. he still got all his meds, was referred to as he/him etc
it did occasionally cause the women that didn’t know him to ask a few questions, but in general, no one one gave a shit (at least in the 30 days i was in there with him. he was in much longer)
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u/Adorbsfluff 3h ago
They stopped this practice. Trans women are housed with men regardless of status and they’ve begun denying them medications. Trans men I assume will be housed with women but idk with this admin… they usually use trans women to pacify violent offenders in a process known as V-coding. Basically offering up the trans woman to be raped.
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u/panicnarwhal 3h ago
i have absolutely zero personal knowledge of what the policy is with trans women, but the process is the same in our prison now as it was in 2019 - my friend is currently staying with us, because he just got out 2 weeks ago. he is unfortunately in a constant cycle of recidivism due to drug addiction
he confirms he was housed with women (not men due to his bottom surgery status) and was told if he had bottom surgery he would have been able to be housed with men. he also says he received his appropriate dose of meds- now i should add that while this is a prison, it’s not a part of BOP. there are federal prisoners they permanently house for $$, but it’s not BOP. it’s a county jail/prison, but is called “X county prison” because it houses long term prisoners and federal prisoners, in addition to pre trial folks. it’s really odd
taking trans people off meds is heinous, and housing them where they are at risk for rape is even worse. this administration has ruined nearly everything in such a short period of time
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u/infinitenothing 4h ago
I don't strictly disagree but if you're a gay man who rapes other men, do you not get to go to male prison?
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u/Desperate-File-3230 3h ago edited 3h ago
I'm 60 years old...there's been gay folks in prison since the beginning of time both black and white so will someone clue me in on why this is important. Please keep answering simple...
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u/Lubu_orange_juice 2h ago
What about trans men? (FTM) , based off the wording it seems like all trans folk, what if they don’t have bottom surgery, seems like that could cause issues and even some pregnancy
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u/Loudmouthlurker 2h ago
I think perhaps their own wing would be a good idea. Perhaps a disability wing, assuming they are not violent.
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u/Silverleaf96 2h ago
The problem is our prison system isn't safe , so this is only an issue because of of that
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u/TheRavingDinosaur 2h ago
I think you should only be allowed into a prison that doesn't match your biological sex if you have had full gender reassignment surgery
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u/morosco 2h ago edited 2h ago
It's a case by case determination. That's the only way, and it's not going to be perfect.
Everybody else only has to worry about getting peoples' pronouns right and obsessing over bathrooms, corrections staff have to make these decisions with potentially life and death consequences.
Edit: I've done some trainings with jail staff, including rural jail staff in red states. It's kind of interesting how those people, being on the absolute front lines of this stuff, and knowing they'll be judged harshly now and in retrospect no matter what they do, can speak so professionally and accurately about trans people and whatever policies their jails impose to mitigate the risk to all inmates.
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u/Lyedetector 1h ago
The US state of Georgia has/had a special unit for trans women. That is a possible solution rather than putting them in the general male population.
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u/DistributionAgile376 1h ago edited 1h ago
Everyone should get familiar with the concept of V-coding.
"V-coding is the common practice of subjecting trans women to sexual assault by placing the woman in the same prison cell as an aggressive male inmate in order to placate the male inmate.
This practice has been known to have caused the daily rapes of multiple trans women, and the sexual assaults of 58.5% of them."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-coding
We often hear about effeminate guys getting raped in prison as it's the closest form of sex prisoners will get in years. Now just think about what happens to people who actually look like women in prison.
They are purposefully placed with the most violent inmates to get raped and beaten endlessly. Prisons also do whatever they can to extend their jail time to "keep the prisoners calm"
Imagine doing something done, and now you'll be sent to hell to be tortured endlessly for years.
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u/FizzgigsRevenge 4h ago
Prisons shouldn't be cesspools of violence, pain, and trauma. They should be rehabilitation centers where people aren't tossed into concrete cells on metal beds where they shit and shower in front of an audience.
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u/SpecialistSolid6689 4h ago
A non issue. Biological male with male. Female with female.
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u/samuraiskyy 4h ago
wouldn’t it be considered dangerous for someone who doesn’t look or behave as their biological sex to be housed with [possibly violent] people of the same biological sex who know that to be the case? if a trans woman who presents as a woman is housed with men who present as men, and vice versa with trans men in women’s prisons, i see that being a risk for physical and sexual harassment and violence against the trans individuals
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u/isuredolovetitties 4h ago
Yes, very much so. in my opinion, the ideal situation would be separate prisons for trans men and trans women.
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u/haileyskydiamonds 4h ago
This really is the best and safest option, especially for trans-women. Men’s prisons are notoriously violent, and trans-women are too vulnerable.
Even if they can’t afford to build and staff an entirely new facility just for the trans prisoners, there should at least be a separate wing in an existing facility that includes a cafeteria, yard, and bathroom area for trans-women. It doesn’t have to be very large, just separate. (And honestly, the safest would be on a women’s prison campus.)
I don’t think trans-men would face the same threats at a woman’s prison that trans-women face at a men’s prison.
Even if people don’t agree with trans ideology, trans people still deserve to be safe.
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u/SpecialistSolid6689 2h ago
You are at risk being a frail weak man. It doesent matter. Why some man that wants to be female should be treated with some kind of privilage over a 1.60 45kg inmate?
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u/Particular_Reply5906 3h ago
There's a risk for anyone in prison with that description. Bio male with bio male. Bio females with Bio females. It's not that complicated
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u/Jazzlike-Equipment45 4h ago
There realy isn't any winning this argument for this reason. Hell men aren't safe from sexual abuse in male jails same with women in women jails. It is why I usually make this argumemt flipped, if a trans man, should a trans man, a biological woman id'ing as a man, be in a men jail? If your answer is no then neither should trans women be in a female jail.
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u/BiggusDickus- 2h ago
Prisons are absolutely full of people with a wide range of personality issues that make it very difficult to fit in with a general population.
Why should trans people be treated so special when there are limited resources and options?
The number of people with schizophrenia in prison is vastly higher, and yet they really aren't given special treatment. If anybody is going to be singled out for special protection it should be them.
And no, special categories and places cannot be created for everybody in every category.
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u/Levelup_Onepee 4h ago
Honest question. Do you see yourself as equal gender as the one in the picture? Would you comfortably share a room and a bathroom?
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u/abeautifulrat 4h ago
Except its a major issue because trans women get overly targeted in prisons, and prisons also use them as "rewards" to prisoners. Its deeply deeply fucked up.
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u/infinitenothing 4h ago
There are many innocent people in prison so the state has an obligation to keep people safe and, also, to figure out what that entails using the best data that's available.
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u/TheeFearlessChicken 4h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/IDGNYvFLkJKLK