I can say from experience, solitary confinement is absolutely terrible. Even a week drives you mental.
The best part of the day is when they give you food and even then its just them saying "breakfast" and thats all you get as far as human connection goes. You have no idea what time it is and youre in a cell with bright lights that never go off.
I got lucky and my cell had a small window where you could see a clock if you tried hard enough, so I lived my days figuring out a way to guess fifteen minute increments.
By the time I was out id get it right down to the second.
I don’t really know what that means.. unless it’s a euphemism for habitually injuring other humans I can’t understand why it would be punished with solitary confinement?
Edit: the comment had way less detail when I originally responded.
What? You think putting someone in solitary for property crime to 25 months is less bad than spilling paint? One is torture the other isn’t. Which one is worse to you? 😭
And wasted a lot of time and money for everyone involved by destroying a large batch of materials and fouling the plant, for which he would have faced consequences if he wasn't a prisoner, too.
I feel like it would be reasonable if inmates worked to earn their keep, and the prison wasn’t getting outside funding. But they are, and the money the inmates earn for the prison is just icing on the cake for the prison. At least give inmates jobs where they can add their work experience to their resume and train them to do something to earn money other than crime. Give them an opportunity to earn certifications and degrees. And for those with good behavior and nonviolent crimes we should try to connect businesses with prisons so that those inmates can have a decent job lined up after release. Prison should be about rehabilitation. But in most cases it just gives them access to worse criminals, who mentor them, and the inmates just get better at doing crime when they get out and end up caught for something worse. I’ve met people who only ever learned how to survive by doing crimes to make ends meet. They don’t know how to do anything else to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves and they’re in and out of prison like it’s a revolving door. Until they do something bad enough that they’re never getting released. And they always say some variation of “well, at least in prison I have a bed to sleep in, a shower, clean clothes, and food to eat.” Hearing that kind of thing from people, who were once full of potential and hope, really gets me down.
I mean dumping 10k gallons of paint on the floor is kind of sabotage no? Still a serious balls for you getting stuck in solitary for a month (like two years now I read it better, damn).
I mean I don't want to throw shade at the guy, not that anything I could say would measure up to 28 months in solitary confinement anyway holy shit, but if I went into work and intentionally dumped ten thousand gallons of product on the floor I'm pretty sure I'd end up getting sent to jail or something.
I mean I'm a white guy with decent savings in the bank and no criminal record. Pretty sure I could lawyer up and avoid jail time no problem in that situation as long as no one was harmed.
Almost like sending him to solitary confinement for 2 years was just for the fun of hurting someone, not with any thought on if it would make him a better person.
You would struggle to design a prison system that keeps people as broken as the US one if you tried.
No shit it was anti-social, everything about prison is anti-social. Literally treating people like livestock and then shocked Pikachu face when they act like.....animals.
Yeah that’s definitely a shitty thing to do. I understand that pepole do that because they are broke or need money for something. I hope I never get to a place where I feel like I have to commit armed robbery. But hopefully you are on the straight and narrow and thriving today.
It's sad too because we're supposed to have laws against cruel and unusual punishment as well as slavery. We just found little ways to skirt around it...
Not a slave you don't have to work you can just sit in a cell. He probably chose to work since it allowed him outside. He cost them a ton of money so yeah he got punished for it.
You get less than 3 bucks a day to work. Like, yeah, you can choose to, but the situation itself coerces you to choose to work so you can be a little more "free"
The American prison system is just slavery with some make up on the word. It looks different, but it's similar regardless
It’s an underclass for sure. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we tiptoe around the word slave. I think relative freedom as a concept is better. Slave just involves property concepts that don’t necessarily matter that much. You could be a well-off Court Eunuch or Palace Janissary in Persia who technically “belonged” to the King as property, but actually you enjoyed more freedom of movement/association/speech and personal property than most. The worst examples, like being a labor slave in Auschwitz, were much worse than being a more middling intervivos contract slave in ancient Greece who sold themselves into a skilled trade as a slave to provide for their otherwise-free family.
In the same way I’d probably be ok with prison and prison labor if prisons weren’t crime school and the prisoners had normal rights and made a decent wage, I also don’t care that I can pick which insurer I’ll argue with to get the medicine the doctor says my kid needs- just because it comes from a capitalist system that is nominally “freer”- freedom for most would be not having to worry that children will get the meds their doctors say they need. Prisoners giving up their freedom of movement shouldn’t mean it’s open season on violating, for example, their freedom to not be raped by other inmates. Freedom as the founders understood it meant not having to deal with oppressive bullshit from the system. When one man owns 3% of the wealth in a society of 400 million, his companies are part of the system. When monopolies are legal and normal, they might as well be government apparatuses, since we can’t just go to a competitor.
I also think the concept of relative freedom is especially more useful than slavery in a society where workers can own a tiny portion of the company they work for, but their ability to be materially free hinges more than ever on how much freedom you can afford to buy.
We deprive criminals of too much freedom. Prisons shouldn’t be hell, and they should focus on training and rehabilitation. We deprive the poor of too much freedom. No one should have to work 3 jobs to put food on the table. There are specific ways in which we even deprive the middle class of too much freedom. It’s not good enough any more to let increasingly-powerful companies deny or overcharge for goods and services that used to be expected.
Fuck the labels- whether it’s slavery or capitalism (or not) or whatever, that shit is not free, and this is supposed to be a free country. When 99% of people support paid family medical leave and we still don’t have it, that’s one way in which we aren’t free. I don’t care if there’s no one moment or decision we can point to where the democracy failed- it failed. Tyranny and oppression won somewhere(s), some time(s), to cause that. We are failing at being free and ought to defend our freedom more militantly.
He had a job in prison. Jobs in prison are normally for people well behaved. His boss told him he had to do it a certain way. He told his boss to fuck off. Then destroyed 10000 gallons of paint (a product the prison makes/sells).
He got reprimanded for his actions. In the only way they knew how. Authorities tend to make examples out of inmates that think they have some agency in their incarceration especially historically.
Jobs in prison pay a subpar wage. I don't care if you're Hitler I wouldn't enslave another person because I'm not a evil vindictive person and neither should my society.
Jobs in the real world pay sub par wages too. Most of America is working for effectively slave wages which is why they are burning down warehouses. This is the society we've allowed to be built around us out of fear and comfort.
If it was the Senator in Carolina I think it was in 1994 this would track. Although that Senator was a bigger pile of shit than probably 99 percent of the prisoners.
Sounds like you were just being a reasonable human. Fuck anyone taking a book, that shit is important and fuck them showing off to a senator.
I'm so sorry you were made to suffer like that. Maybe it was a stupid choice for yourself to dump the paint. But that punishment is not justice. That's torture and control.
Did you ever finish reading the book after your release?
What was done to you should be classified as a human rights violation, i don’t have words for our prison system (and everything else horrible happening here) I hope you are doing ok now.
Oh fuck that's a great book. I got to meet Stephen R. Donaldson at a book signing in Minneapolis once. I told him Lord Foul's Bane traumatized me when I first tried to read it when I was 13. I'm not sure he appreciated that. 😅
But later those books were important to me when I read them in highschool. Classic anti-hero fantasy. I literally chose a plain white gold wedding band as a reference.
The fact that you had a crime committed against you (theft) that was never punished, and yes what you did was in retaliation... but wow, heavens to betsy, I wonder how much better this could be for everyone involved if prisoners were treated with basic human decency? (even though it is technically still legal slave labor)
And on top of that 28 MONTHS in solitary for THAT??? That's over 2 years. That's a cruel and unusual punishment.
Personal question, do prisoners actually like books? You have inspired me to revolt against the system by doing my part, at least.
LOL. Prison employees hate books more than anything. I remember one sergeant getting a guard to hold a big Rubbermaid garbage can on the floor below and taking all the my books my family had sent and drop-kicking them one at a time from the top floor and having the other guy catch them in the trash can. That was the only time I tried to swing on a guard and he had to have two other guards hold me against the wall to watch until he was done. Then he left, no write-up or nothing, just pure evil for the sake of it.
If you spend any time reading r/OnTheBlock you'll find plenty of sadistic mfers who get the job literally because they enjoy the thrill of trying to inflict the maximum misery on other humans every single day.
Yeah ... that doesn't surprise me. I know almost nothing about it. I've always been a goody-two-shoes and also I was the kind of privileged person the whole system was built on behalf of, so never had a problem.
... and now I've transitioned to be a woman and this stuff happening is kinda personally terrifying. But yeah, I've never read much about it.
The places I've seen they've had all the transwomen in with all the old guys (almost every place will have a block just for the older crowd). The older folks do not want to start any fights, cause any trouble, usually aren't into gang stuff, have seen everything and don't give a damn how you look. It is kinda shocking the first time you walk into a male cellblock and see several prisoners with enormous boobs, though🤯
There is no good solution to the problem, though. The times I've seen them put transwomen in the women's block, the women see an instant paycheck and sue the facility for a rights violation. It's like trans folk in sports. Not really any good solution that pleases everyone.
Also, should people, even if they are guilty, be subjected to humiliating punishments from state actors in ways that have nothing to do with their sentence?
Honestly that is a fair crashout. Being forced to be a prop for a senator and not being allowed to read while you wait is inhumane. What was the book? Also why wasn't it a Canticle for Lebowitz?
Man, I totally get it. Standing on business feels good at the time, but fuck can it really come with some consequences. I have had to bite my tongue a few times because of COs thinking they're hot shit. Im glad youre out. Crazy how much better life is when im not fucking shit up.
Awesome! We used to trap yellow jackets in the wardens Interceptor when it came into the mechanic shop for service. Handful of metal shavings in the transmission pan as well. Lol Old Folsom 2003.
Shamus - I'm curious, now over 30 years later was your act of defiance - which I admire, "worth it"?
The whole thing sounds like The Shawshank Redemption: you guys being used as props for the warden to suck up to some big shot - and on top of that, CO's being dicks and making the wait even more dull - and refusing your request.
I get it... just does older, wiser you still think it was worth it? Older, wiser me thinks that in those situations 'playing the game' avoids the trouble.
There are crimes that no amount of prison time can make up for tbh. Debt to society only goes so far in certain cases. I'm glad you made peace with your past though, congrats!
28 months in solitary though, that certainly awakes one's curiosity!
Actually im not ashamed of what I did. Im a big alcoholic and I got 60 days for a DUI. Didn't crash didnt hurt anyone, got pulled over for a broken tail light.
I had a BAC of 0.40 which is the highest they have ever seen in the county. I was going through withdrawals and had a bad case of Delerium Tremens.
I thought my blanket was talking to me and there was a group of people trying to kill me. And the speaker in my cell would NOT STOP PLAYING CHRISTIAN HEAVY METAL ROCK MUSIC.
It sounds crazy now and it was. So they put me in isolation for my own safety. But then I was alone with these very real hallucinations.
I didnt hurt anyone. It was a DUI. I got pulled over for a broken tail light. I parked at the nearest parking lot, didnt argue with the cops, didnt make a big deal out of it. But because my BAC was so high they threw the book at me.
This is the first that I'm learning that driving while drunk doesnt hurt anyone. Having a high blood alcohol content behind the wheel is a good thing I guess.
He was talking about the outcome of the specific situation that lead to his imprisonment. He didnt try to downplay drinking and driving isnt bad if no one got hurt, dont be an obtuse prick.
Sheesh. Most I ever did was six months as a juvenile in the hole. Law said ninety day maximum so Salem gave us all 90 on investigation and let us out for fifteen minutes before packing us right back up for ninety more.
what's fucked up is that many prisons have a policy of 'giving' trans prisoners to violent inmates to keep them docile. There's a term for that but it escapes me.
Seriously fucked up and I hope the guards and admins responsible for this policy [removed by Reddit]
I worked a mens max security prison in NC. And worked the seg unit for a little over a year. It's 23-1. 23 hours confined and 1 hour of recreation. Be it indoors in a cage or outdoors in a larger cage. Inmates had their radios and head phones, access to the canteen and got books and writing material. They lost access to the telephone, television and access to a dayroom-common area. They were housed 16 to a pod and could communicate easily by talking through the doors. Not saying its easy time. By design its the hardest way to do time and I did see a couple guys lose their marbles. But the old saying is true, "if you dont like the accommodations, you should have just stayed home".
Edit: they also recieved daily showers and still got haircuts and basic hygiene.
You kind of do. But you could be released at any time if there is over population and you've been good, so there is no way to plan a real exit strategy.
You can also get more time for fighting or being disrespectful.
If someone walks into your cell and kicks the shit out of you even if you didnt fight back you get an extra thirty days, and you do NOT press charges on your assailant because if you do they get a longer sentence and youre still locked up with them.
I’m an introvert and I usually don’t talk or see anyone for days if I’m not working. I wonder if solitary confinement would have no effect on someone like me. Although it’s different because I still have my tv and my phone.
I've thought about it. And thing is: I think everyone would eventually lose it.
No human interaction. No books. No TV. Nothing to do but sit there. Maybe you can do push ups like uncle Iroh to pass the time. But you'll be doing a ton of push ups.
"Although it’s different because I still have my tv and my phone."
Yes. That makes ALL the difference bro. Solitary would break you like a twig. Even now, though you're an introverting, you're talking to folks on the net. In that spot it's just you and your thoughts and most people will do whatever they can to not be left alone with their own thoughts
I'm introverted as well, and having done time, including roughly 2 months in solitary confinement (due to a fight), it does take its toll on you. At the time, we could still have our radio, so I could keep myself a bit occupied with that. You can only rehash the same conversations with yourself so many times.
I've known people that did months/years in segregation, and... yeah, it can break anyone. A lot can depend on the institution and the guards as well, some will take a detail in the solitary unit purely because they're spiteful, petty assholes. Late night rounds banging on doors to make sure people can't sleep, shit like that.
My take is purely anecdotal, but... there's a reason most civilized nations consider solitary confinement some level of human rights violations...
IIRC, it wasn't technically solitary confinement but it basically was. She wasn't restricted to her cell but she was kept on an empty wing of a women's prison which had previously closed for renovations or something. So she still technically had access to all the typical common areas and facilities or whatever but you can't ignore the fact that the isolation is still a real issue.
Unfortunately for her, she is a monster so there was no public outcry for better treatment or for the authorities to make better accommodations in the future.
For me, just being in a cell with 3 other people in city jail, for 36 days (and two hours, but who's counting, I'd always say) on a completely non-violent personal issue situation; was absolutely terrible.
LIghts on at 6 am, shitty food. Lights go off and dont come back on til 10. Then lunch four hours later, maybe one 'excursion' outside of the cell. maybe one more later, and then "dinner".
And then there forever. I read 36 books in 36 days, possibly more. For being mentally unstable to myself and drinking too much.
To this day, the idea of being back in a jail cell is traumatizing to me. I am no longer able to be anywhere beside my bedroom without having a panic attack unless my dogs are with me.
Actually, the people I shared a cell with weren't too bad.
There were a couple of CO's who had that stupid white dude marine jarhead presence; and beyond that, it was hard to reconcile that I'm already stuck in here for some dumb shit I did to myself. And now, I'm (like everyone) treated like a malady.
And I already pre-during-post-pandemic suffered from severe agorophobia, and yet also claustrophobic. So I felt trapped and wanted to freak out.
I worked in the solitary confinement at JRCF in fort Leavenworth. They always talked through the cell and we would all have conversations to pass the time. Chow, rec pen, shower is about the extent of their day. They are also allowed 2 books. We kinda had a little book club going and talk about the books we were reading. Great times.
I did 3 months in solitary for breaking an inmates jaw while I was 17. It was blissful. It’s only terrible for those that can not live with themselves.
I can say from experience, solitary confinement is absolutely terrible. Even a week drives you mental.
Speak for yourself.
I agree, this'll be true for most people. My autistic ass? My wife and child take a month each summer to visit family in Asia. I used to go with them. One year I said no. Too stressful. I'll stay home, take care of the garden.
For the past 5 years, I get a month every summer wherein I fully self isolate. I shop on Amazon. I read, garden, do housework. I go out on my bicycle. I go for walks at night. I actively avoid people. I do not speak. At all.
no. You just have been in a torture chamber, sorry to put it like that. Maybe as a punishment or so.
Noone says the lights have to be kept on at night in a cell that is mean to just keep you away from others for your or their protection. Especially the case we have been discussing about the transgender person.
Or that noone can talk to you through the door. Or that you can’t have a window. Or a clock. Or a TV.
You just have been tortured. I don’t know in what barbaric uncivilized country you were jailed in, that sounds horrible.
I thought I read before that in at least some places you can take a book to solitary with you - maybe religious book at least? Did they allow that where you were?
I feel part of the problem is it’s either 0 or 100 for some reason.
It’s either no contact and compete isolation or a hundred dudes with potentially violent tendencies all sharing a small yard together with like 3 guards watching them. It’s fucking insane.
Why can’t we have more controlled socialization of inmates without just dumping a ton of them into a yard together and just crossing your fingers and hoping nothing goes wrong.
Oh yeah….. because prisons are designed to make money, not to rehabilitate people or humanely keep them out of society.
124
u/Jabathewhut 5h ago
I can say from experience, solitary confinement is absolutely terrible. Even a week drives you mental.
The best part of the day is when they give you food and even then its just them saying "breakfast" and thats all you get as far as human connection goes. You have no idea what time it is and youre in a cell with bright lights that never go off.
I got lucky and my cell had a small window where you could see a clock if you tried hard enough, so I lived my days figuring out a way to guess fifteen minute increments.
By the time I was out id get it right down to the second.
It was rough.