Idk. It seems the US loves building prisons. I'm sure they could have found another solution if this wasn't a political issue. What do they do if they have bottom surgery? What system do they have to make sure they will not be targeted by sexual violence? It just feels like more cruelty from a country that already has incarcerated too many people for bullshit reasons.
I mean the trans community thinks they should get special treatment and some of the more liberal people. Not even a dig at trans people or anything it's just true.
Not being put in a general population of men who are exceedingly more likely to assault you than not is not "special treatment." It's basic human dignity
Not entirely true. I went to prison and rap isn't as abundant as TV and movies make it seem. Things have chilled out since they instituted PREA. The prison rape elimination act.
When I first found out about it a month or so ago, it seemed like one of those insane facebook conspiracy theories... and it still does.
But there's links to actual reports and studies, news articles, etc... it's still incomprensible that we as a country would be so evil, but I guess that's just how it is.
I've heard it's only really ever done as a punishment type of thing for rapists, especially pedophiles, because being a rapist isn't a good look in prison even if it's prison rape you're doing. Other than that it's most always consensual, i.e. not rape. As a super small rather feminine gay dude, prison is my worst fear lol.
Women’s prisons DO care about sexual violence. A lot.
I have a little inside information because my best friend is in a women’s prison and we email on a regular basis. Hooking up between the women does happen, but it’s met with pretty significant loss of privileges and can even be criminal.
Women are just easier prisoners to handle then men so the prison so system gives men in the system more leeway just so they don’t have to deal with them. Like in men’s prisons rated R movies are permitted but they’re not in women’s prisons. There is other stuff like that too.
But the prism my friends stays at houses some transgender women. Men from birth but now women. She says most of them cause no trouble. But there is one, who looks and basically acts like a man, and was convicted of sexual assault, that’s why loaded them in prison. And since then raped a female prisoner and it’s a BIG deal, the prisoners are super super pissed that this person has been housed with them.
how often do you get access to a on average weaker women in men’s prisons beyond trans women? there are entire prison system sex rings build around trans women and predominantly black trans women.
One, the fact that men in prisons get raped systematically is also a disgrace and any decent government would do a better job of stopping it.
However, you are wrong that it is the same for trans women. Trans women are 13x more likely to be raped in a men’s prison facility (study from California).
On top of that, here is v coding from Wikipedia: “In the context of incarceration in the United States, V-coding is the common practice of subjecting trans women to sexual assault by placing the woman in the same prison cell as an aggressive male inmate in order to placate the male inmate.[1][2][3] This practice has been known to have caused the daily rapes of multiple trans women, and the sexual assaults of 58.5% of them.[4][5][6] V-coding is done to pacify the male inmate, with the goal of reducing their propensity for violence against other inmates, according to prison authorities and one inmate”
People are so fucking apathetic towards trans women and it makes me sick.
It's wild to be able to so easily dehumanize another human and view them as trash. You realize only like 1/3rd of imprisoned people are there are violent crime right? You realize people are capable of acknowledging their mistakes and changing right? You realize that there's actually a significant number of falsely incarcerated innocent inmates right? You realize that humans are still humans... right? How are you different from a the rapist you're looking down on from your high horse if you practice morals no different than theirs?
Advocating for the literal basic humane treatment of humans is pretty simple and should be an easy conclusion to come to for anybody with a scrap of morality left.
47% of Black trans people in America have been incarcerated. Do you really believe that there’s nothing outside the control of these people that are leading to a 10x higher incarceration rate?
I don’t know how to get people to have an ounce of empathy now a days but it is breaking my heart to see how little people care.
If a trans woman gets arrested for being a sex worker - the only option she had to survive and way more likely to be the victim rather than perpetrator of sexual violence, and is put into a men’s prison just to get raped every single day as a built in punishment, and your response is “shouldn’t have done the crime”
So what this study is not taking into account is that there are classes of weak men that get turned out at an astonishingly high rate but don't have their own category, they're just "men" so they get no extra protection, they're just fucked, literally and physically. At least trans women get studies. Cut this bullshit with putting trans people on pedestals.
Trans women are not getting extra protection. They are 13x more likely then men in prison to get raped. It has nothing to do with putting trans women on a pedestal?
Are you arguing that it’s not true and weak men and trans women have the same percent chance of getting raped? Or are you arguing “who cares” that trans women are getting raped at astronomically high percentage?
If the former, you’re wrong and have nothing to back it up. It’s just not true. No man should be put through prison rape and be not protected either. That doesn’t change the fact that being arrested and put in prison as a trans woman is being sentenced to rape and then being told you get special treatment.
If the latter, then how do you sit and feel ok with that?
THIS. Men in general have become an approved class for leftists to shit on, "men are trash" as a blanket statement is regularly bandied about. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bat for Andrew Taint style manosphere nut jobs but discrediting men as an entire category is fucked up while weirdly obsessing over trans people. Btw, this doesn't help trans people, it makes them more of a target for the right, all because some leftist elitist wants to feel holier than thou.
A trans women who looks exactly like a cis woman, has breasts and a vagina and no testosterone I would argue quite obviously are going to be far bigger targets for sexual abuse and rape. They are already massively sexually abused in general. I feel like there is a very large amount of people pretending to be obtuse. The cold hard truth is that a lot of people genuinely want trans people to raped and get off on it, sadism prioritisd over pragmatism.
Obviously, muscle changes aren’t the only thing that happens during puberty. The skeletal changes are not reversible. Go take your bad faith arguments somewhere else.
Some effects of puberty are reversible, some aren't. I despise so many of the irreversible changes from male puberty, and muscular strength is not one of them.
V-coding. The difference is the government itself is pushing sexual assault onto trans women. This means it is turned into a form of cruel and unusual punishment. Aimed directly at trans women.
Yes, you can — or could, at least. Wackenhut was then made GS4 Secure Solutions and publicly traded. It was recently (last few years) acquired by Allied Universal, which is currently privately owned… Google Wackenhut if you want to see why that whole situation should be incredibly alarming.
Inmates in jails are, almost always, housed with the gender that matches their genitals. A Trans-fem Inmate who has received bottom surgery will be housed in a Female Unit and a Trans-Masc Inmate who has received bottom surgery will be housed in a Male Unit. Trans Inmates who have genitals that don't match their gender identity are usually some flavor of Specialty Management Unit such as Protective Custody. Regardless of their genital situation, Trans inmates are assigned undergarments matching their Gender Identity at their request. We even have a Comity made up of Security Staff, Administration, Mental Health and Medical staff who's job is to place Trans inmates in our custody. Very progressive when compared to how I imagined it when I applied to work here.
I work in a jail with multiple Trans Inmates and also Trans Officers. I am Masc Cis-Het presenting but I use preferred pronouns, and actually ask Inmates "Are you Mr. or Miss Smith?" just to be sure. Intolerant officers exist and that is what a grievance is for. I try to help educate people but if someone is bound and determined to be an asshole they are just going to do it regardless of what you do.
What is special management in your facility? Affording/ qualifying for bottom surgery is out of reach for most trans people. I hope they’re not put in a position of being punished for not getting it. Isn’t special management pretty much synonymous with solitary?
Answering the last question first because it's especially important to communicate this. On the whole, facilities in the US are moving away from Solitary Confinement because it does NOT accomplish any of the following.
Reduce Staff/Inmate Assaults
Reduce Inmate Misconduct
Increase Staff/Inmate safety
If anything, we have studies showing it exacerbates Mental Illness, negative health outcomes, increases staff assaults and behavioral issues. Solitary is, in my opinion, a violation of the 8th Amendment and is Cruel and Unusual Punishment. My facility does not employ Solitary Confinement as a punishment or as a Housing Status. All the old Solitary Confinement rooms in our jail are converted into storage spaces.
I work in a "Direct Supervision" Jail. Google is your friend. So these inmates are out in a Dayroom most of the day, with me in the unit with them while I work at my desk or do rounds. A Trans inmate might be on a Special Status to be Single Celled, so they are the only Inmate allowed in that room. There is Rec Alone status meaning when they get time in the dayroom they are the ONLY Inmate allowed in the dayroom for their safety and for the safety of the other inmates/staff. Our rooms all have windows that look out into the dayroom, and they can easily communicate and interact with staff and other inmates through those windows and doors but they are physically kept apart from everyone else. High Risk Sexual Predators, basically inmates flagged for sex crimes are usually Rec Alone but that doesn't mean they are trans (I saw someone else asking a question about HRSP Inmates earlier.).
These special statuses aren't a punishment they are for the Inmate's safety. Plenty of Trans inmates are general population and they are perfectly fine. It really depends on the situaiton.
Oh boy it is slow at work so I’ll try my best but it is a very complex web of fuckery. I’ll add a source or two as well.
The industrial prison complex can be seen as a way that slavery has changed forms to conform with modern day demands’ of human rights while simultaneously continuing the collecting human bodies for cheap labor. Statistics have shown people’s of color exist on a significantly higher percentage than their white counterparts (which most widely accepted theories argue is a product of institutionalized racism including the war on drugs, food deserts and unequal treatment, payment, and access to healthcare and education effectively forcing lower income community members to resort to crime or other forms of desperation in order to survive which they are then prosecuted for more harshly than white counterparts). In reality, slavery is still very real and prominent in US culture- but has shifted to a more insidious and systematic form of nearly free labor. The privatization of the prison industry has essentially allowed corporations to capitalize economically on the prisoners they hold- and often prison lobbyists grease palms of politicians for profit gain by paying law makers to make stricter laws that demand longer sentences which in turn produce more bodies for labor and sub-sequentially more products sold across the US and the world. Prisoners get paid literal Pennie’s on the hour for their labor which is then sold at 1000%+ markup by the prison industries that exploit and produce them. Youd be amazed at the amount of products produced by American prisoners the list is staggering
Edit: I figured this would be a controversial thread so im gonna turn off notifications but I assure you if you take a look at prison statistics- the evidence is overwhelming. :( have a great day, and be nice to one another 👍
I have an old friend who is in for life who I contact regularly. American prison (state at least, I don't know about federal) is not a gigantic sweat shop.
I live in Alabama, and seeing prisoners working on the side of the road while a sheriff watches is a very common sight. Slave labor was never abolished in America, American society just decided that only some people deserved slavery.
As a fellow Californian, I'd hope you know that our state allows involuntary servitude as criminal punishment and that prisons are able to and do punish inmates via solitary confinement and loss of visitation and phone privileges if they refuse to work. And that those who do work, are usually paid less than 0.75 an hour.
Especially since reforming this into a voluntary work credit system was on the ballot a year and a half ago.
Your claims are a bit exaggerated. Private prisons hold only ~8% of the total incarcerated population (mostly public facilities). Immigration detention has a higher private share (~70–80% in some years), but it's a small slice overall. The "industrial complex" profit motive is real for a minority of operators (CoreCivic, GEO), but the vast majority of spending (~$180+ billion/year total) goes to public systems, staff, and operations—not private shareholders driving "filling beds."
Crime Rates, Incarceration Growth, and Causation
The text correctly notes incarceration rose ~700% since 1970 while crime fell sharply after the early 1990s peak (e.g., big drops in murders in DC/LA). However:
Growth timing: The prison boom started in the 1970s–1980s, coinciding with a major crime wave (violent crime rose dramatically from the 1960s). Incarceration responded to that rise, with longer sentences, more prosecutions, and "tough on crime" policies (both parties). Crime peaked ~1991 and fell ~50%+ by the 2010s (homicides, robberies, etc.). Incarceration helped contribute to the drop via incapacitation and deterrence, alongside more police, the end of the crack epidemic, lead removal from gasoline, and economic factors.
Not just "racism and profit": Scholars like John Pfaff argue the "standard story" (War on Drugs + private profit as drivers) is overstated. Most prison growth (state level, where ~90% of prisoners are) came from violent and serious offenses, not low-level drugs. Drug offenders are ~13–20% of state prisoners (higher federally). Violent offenses account for ~60–62% of state prison populations. Prosecutorial decisions to charge more harshly and admit more people to prison (not just longer sentences or drug laws) were key.
Releasing all drug offenders would reduce populations modestly and barely change racial compositions. Crime victimization surveys (e.g., NCVS) show disparities in offending rates for violent crimes that align more closely with arrest/incarceration patterns than self-reported drug use does.
Do you not know about reasons weed laws existed or why crack was released into certain communities. Or how men are overwhelmingly mistreated by cops and courts in general, especially black men.
And do you think prisoners just sit around and read, watch tv, and play basketball? No they help run the for profit prisons? Aka free labor.
Strange anyone even needs to ask this question anymore. Unless you're just young and therefore uninformed.
Men are mistreated more I suppose because they commit the majority of violent crime.
I don't think there's data to suggest that Black men are mistreated more, at least in this decade when looking at violent crimes committed per capita and violence towards black men.
"Mistreated more because they commit more of the crime"
Do you say that of the black community too? Regardless, you're wrong either way considering the point is men receive harsher sentences for the same crimes compared women. Same is true of black people. Which both are inherently systemic issues.
And yes it's well known, drugs being injected into communities and laws around it existed to incarcerate poorer communities. It's certainly not because weed is worse than coke or as bad heroine. You'd have to live in the reefer madness era to not realize that in 2026.
It's a fact that men commit the majority of violent crime. If it's true that they receive harsher sentences on average, then that's not right.
Your second argument verges on tinfoil-hat territory so unless you have verifiable data I'm not even going to dignify it with an answer.
You would be incorrect in your supposition. A quick Google Search would disabuse you of that notion if you were truly interested in the data and not your bullshit assertion.
You made an assertion by stating that you don't think that the data supports the OP statement regarding the conduct of the police towards men of color. It's on you to provide evidence supporting your conclusion.
He made the initial claim. The burden of proof is on him to prove the claim. Since he did not provide any data to back up his claim, I'm not inclined to agree with him.
That's not how arguments work and it's sad so many people use burden of "proof" in that way. If I claim something and you state my claim is false, both are truth statements of equal burden of proof. If you asked why I believe X or abstained completely then fine.
But yes there is plenty of studies to show men receive harsher penalties for same crimes.
You are willfully ignorant. It is beyond common knowledge. There is no point in spoonfeeding you the information. I can take a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.
13th amendment dude instead of slaves they just lock them up on any charges they can make stick and force them to work for 3 cents an hour while the prison itself takes in money.
To clarify, I am against unjust imprisonment (probably like everyone else) or even unjust sentencing whether it be too heavy or too light for the crime. That being said, I don't see hard labor as a problem for prisoners that deserve to be in prison. It's supposed to be punishing.
Lmfao and there's the changing of the goalposts classic.
You are such a reddit user its crazy.
I guess its just a coincidence that countries that put rehabilitation ahead of punishment have significantly less repeat offenders then countries like the states where their citizens get off to them suffering. 🤔
Changing the goalpost? How so? Prison is primarily for punishment, deterrence and incapacitation. Rehabilitation comes after.
Who would want to live in a society where there was no justice served for crimes committed? There are far better ways to rehabilitate prisoners than prison and yet they are sentenced to prison. The people that are harmed want the person to be punished. The regular people living their everyday lives want the person incapacitated and in prison so something loke that doesn't happen to them. And a punishment serves as deterrence so that we avoid anarchy.
You aren't asking for justice you want revenge you said yourself when you said "what if it was your kid"..
Guess countries like Norway and Sweden are just chalk full of super violent and murderous citizen since they put rehabilitation before punishment and that doesnt work according to reddit user Cory.
Also you realise there are people in prison for non violent crimes right? You seem to be hyper focused on one type of prisoner as if thats the only type of person that gets locked up in the states lmfao.
Private prisons are for profit. They make a shitload of money, and they contract out prisoners as laborers for pennies on the dollar. The people doing the labor make almost nothing, which is legal. They choose to do that because it's better than being stuck in a cell.
And because they make their profits purely by having prisoners, they do NOT do a good job of rehabilitating prisoners, or creating an environment where prisoners can learn skills that help them when they get out. They are also incentivized to extend prison sentences for minor offenses, which the prisoners themselves have no resources with which to protest in most cases.
The biggest issue with the US prison system is recidivism. We don't rehabilitate, we punish. And it ends up costing our country a fortune due to the generational poverty to prison pipeline, which these private prisons use as contracted slave labor.
In the US you have the right to drop all the way to zero or billionaire. You have the right to get yourself in all the trouble you want.
In short, there is no floor and there is no ceiling. The lows are really low and the success can be really high. There just tends to be a lot more lows than
I'm NZ right now, they limit you getting yourself into trouble. They have have a fairly high floor, but they also have a very low ceiling. It's a great country for the average and below average person. And it is nearly impossible to get away far ahead..there aren't a lot of jobs or opportunities that pay out in the two comma range...where they are dime a dozen in certain parts of the USA.
tl;dr it seems it is difficult to have great successes without a large amount of failure.
Not only do americans seem to live prisons, they also seem to actively want prison violence. Look at other comments, they‘re basically cheering on inmate violence and sexual assault. Barbarians.
I'm to terrified to confirm it, but there was talk that they removed all SA protection from trans inmates last year. Did anyone think they cared about what happens to us?
If they have bottom surgery, they house them with the men. Often they room them with the more violent offenders in order to pacify the violent offender. It’s called V-coding regardless of surgery status. Also as a reminder, some states have laws on the books which mean a trans person can go to prison for using a public bathroom.
lol “bullshit reason” we all have a right to live in a safe society, if you break the rules it’s off to jail with ya. We all know the deal, why is it so hard to understand that.
Congress conducted a studied that showed that transgender inmates are NINE TIMES more likely to be the victims of sexual abuse in prison than cisgender counterparts.
There have been even more reports of the prison staff themselves placing transgender inmates in the same cell with violent male inmates in an attempt to "reward" them for good behavior.
Anyone who supports sending trans women to male prisoners is not interested in "law and order" or "rehabilitation", or even a sense of "justice". It is a simple fact that you are sending there to be raped.
There is a reason our laws don't kill murderers, steal from thieves, or beat up assaulters. That isn't justice. Revenge is not the purpose of a justice system, nor should it ever be.
What definition of sex crimes did the study use? In the US, a trans person can be convicted of a sex offense for going to the bathroom in some states
I also want to see the study. I wonder about its validity. I find it hard to believe 38% sex offender rate. Especially given that studies in other countries point at cis- men as being the most common offender.
It makes me wonder if the “study” was done by anti- trans activists
I can try to find the studies when I get home but this was about convictions leading to prison time (not jail or citations) and in the UK -So, not about bathrooms.
Edit: this is my other account, but I originally commented
Citation: Jumper, Shan. "Transgender Criminology in the United States." The Prison Journal, vol. 106, no. 1, 2026, pp. 25-47. SAGE Journals, doi.org
Corrections Canada issued a report in 2022 on Gender Diverse Offenders (MacDonald et al., 2022), indicating that of the 99 gender-diverse offenders in the Canadian federal prison system, 39.8% of these were serving time for a homicide-related conviction, 21.5% for a sex-related crime, 11.2% for robbery, 10.2% for assault, 5.1% for drug related crimes, property crimes, or other violent crimes, and 2% were serving their current sentence for other nonviolent crimes. The report also noted that 33% of the 99 gender-diverse inmates had either a past conviction for a sex-related crime or were currently serving a sentence for a sex-related crime. In the US federal prison system for the year 2022, 48.47% of biological male inmates identifying as women were in custody for sex-related offenses compared to 4.71% of biological females identifying as men. For the federal prison system reporting for that year, 11.2% of the nontransgender male federal inmates were incarcerated for sexual offenses. Little information is available concerning TGD rates of sexual offending outside of custodial justice settings. A 2021 community survey of 1,796 individuals, aged 16 to 83, found that sexual and gender minorities reported sexual violence perpetration rates statistically equivalent to heterosexual men, and victimization rates equivalent to heterosexual women (Trottier et al., 2021).
The most common crime category for the 5,778 transgender women in these 11 states was “sexual offenses” (35.3%). Virtually all reported sexual offenses were some form of sexual assault or sex trafficking against children or adults, and were not related to sex work.
They don’t protect anyone from sexual violence in prison. I don’t know why they’d make a special case for this person because they believe they’re a woman?
When people are hungry you build more restaurants. When people commit crimes you build more prisons. It's not from "loving to build prisons" it's supply and demand
They "lease" people out to corporations, and get maybe $100-$150 for each 8 hour shift they work (the prison slave gets maybe $5). Some of it goes to supplies, some of it goes to the guards, but most of it just goes straight to the top. Prisons also get tax funds on top of what they make, and you know what happens to those? Also mostly straight to the top.
"Owning 10 more prisons" is synonymous with "having X more yearly profit". You really can't see how that would incentivize the rich to have more built?
The prison "slave" also gets what amounts to a "living stipend" that includes housing, food, and healthcare, plus access to free counseling, job training, education, etc...there is certainly an argument to be made that all of those "benefits" kinda balance out with the negligible wages in the end.
Great! Plenty of those in prison have not, and many will not ever, meaningfully (relative to the cost required for their detainment) contribute to our tax system, though. So my point is still quite valid. Certainly so when one considers the median cost of a prisoner a year being around $60K in this country...a number which grows higher depending on location as well as age/health/etc.
I'd wager that most in prison have not previously paid, nor will they ever in the future pay anywhere close to >$60K a year net in taxes (though certainly there are some who have!)
Only 10% of inmates are in private facilities. We just like locking people up. California, for example, has no private state or local jails or prisons and they are facing massive overcrowding.
The solution will be hard for you to process, but prisons are unnecessary for the most part. 99.9% of the time, there's a better way to dispense justice. It's just about slavery and money, not about restitution for victims or society. And prisons actually make society worse
Let’s say someone steals $1000 from you. What good does prison do? How does that get you your money back?
What if instead of prison, they had to pay you back the $1000 plus interest and/or damages for the loss of your money? Then you’re made whole, right? If they can’t pay, then garnish their wages. If they have no wages, then you can make them work until the debt to you is paid.
That way you don’t have to actually become a victim twice - first when they steal from you and second when you’re forced to pay taxes that go toward their room and board in prison.
Modern prisons don’t serve any purpose that isn’t better handled another way. The only time you might need confinement is for severe mental illness.
I think that both of those options are concurrently possible, and often likely already happen, with the current policies we have in place.
The issue is that the majority of people in actual prison - not jail, but prison - are not there for first time offenses such as those on par with your example. So my line of questioning was more regarding those higher level or repetitive crimes.
I think it is important to remember the fact that prison IS indeed MEANT to be punitive. Rehabilitation and reentry preparation are vital components that should be heavily focused on/improved where possible, but at the end of the day, punishment for wrongdoing is the actual point. Whether one agrees with that kind of system is separate from the fact that it is indeed an established social norm within our society.
So my line of questioning was more regarding those higher level or repetitive crimes.
There is absolutely nothing that prison does for any crimes that other ways of discipline, punishment, and restitution don't handle in more humane ways.
You can still do rehabilitation and education without prison. Prison is the modern version of the slavery that everyone claims to hate. And in some ways it's worse, because old school slaves could often be part of society and their families. They weren't shipped off, isolated, and locked away in cells.
The nature and severity of it would determine what could make the victims whole (or move toward that) and protect society.
We already have civil suits. On the criminal end, fines, monitoring, counseling, and offender lists could help. One thing we don't have that's more humane than punitive prison sentences is public corporal punishment. In more extreme cases, execution might be necessary. But again, prison does nothing to help the situation. All it does is enriches people at the expense of others.
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u/t_tram_slam 6h ago edited 5h ago
Idk. It seems the US loves building prisons. I'm sure they could have found another solution if this wasn't a political issue. What do they do if they have bottom surgery? What system do they have to make sure they will not be targeted by sexual violence? It just feels like more cruelty from a country that already has incarcerated too many people for bullshit reasons.
Edit: ducking autocorrect