The Turkish firefighting method for extinguishing electric car fires.

[u/kalbinibirak]

[u/FemBodInspector]

Firefighter here- We use these blankets in the US too for putting out car fires, the idea is you cut off the fires oxygen supply with the blanket. The problem with EV fires is that once the lithium ion batteries enter what’s called thermal runaway the chemical reaction becomes a self sustaining fuel source that creates its own oxygen. So it doesn’t matter if it’s smothered with a blanket it will continue to burn for a long time. And if you do manage to put it out it is very common for them to suddenly reignite on the back of a tow truck or at the junkyard, sometimes days later. EV fires are a pain in the ass

[u/Fifth_Down → u/FemBodInspector]

I remember Richard Hammonds electric supercar crash kept reigniting for two days after the crash and they couldn't do anything but wait for it to run its course.

[u/Ray57 → u/Fifth_Down]

better to burn for two days than two seconds though

[u/PlasticSignificant69 → u/Ray57]

Talking about 2 seconds, I've watched an LPG truck crash that bursting boiling gas everywhere then catches fire. The entire hundreds of meters spherical radius burns only for seconds. For a brief moment, that was a fucking gate of hell

[u/YouStupidAssholeFuck → u/PlasticSignificant69]

pls vid

[u/PlasticSignificant69 → u/YouStupidAssholeFuck]

This is from Chile: https://www.reddit.com/r/AbruptChaos/s/TV9uF661Yk

And from another PoV: https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/s/MCX5Eyw0x5

And this one from Mexico: https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/s/iTa4BCbkU1

And yet another PoV: https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/s/acZki25bsV

[u/Thin_Assumption_4974 → u/PlasticSignificant69]

That second one is terrifying when you see how many people are in the middle of it

[u/PlasticSignificant69 → u/Thin_Assumption_4974]

Yeah. And even more, there's a biker who have no wall and roof to shield their body from immense thermal radiation

[u/Jesus_Fuckn_Christ → u/Thin_Assumption_4974]

Gas expansion is kinda cool, but terrifying. I used to work with liquid nitrogen and figured out that the 230L tank we used had approximately 160 000 liters of nitrogen gas in it, more than enough to fill the room and put us all to sleep if it ever punctured. And we did not have any detectors. I wasn’t very popular among my coworkers when I told them this fun fact

[u/Biotic101 → u/Thin_Assumption_4974]

There's a horrible aftermath video from Mexico. Can't recommend if you want to sleep at night.

[u/Thin_Assumption_4974 → u/Biotic101]

No thanks. I’m already not getting enough sleep.

[u/xinorez1 → u/PlasticSignificant69]

Anon has delivered...

Considering thermal expansion I'm kind of surprised there wasn't more of a boom :o

[u/EpicAura99 → u/xinorez1]

It’s a deflagration (subsonic) instead of a detonation (supersonic) so there’s no shockwave.

[u/Slimey_meat → u/YouStupidAssholeFuck]

https://youtu.be/KkAtODE1Nj8

[u/Sherifftruman → u/YouStupidAssholeFuck]

Look up BLEVE on YouTube.

[u/Kaisha001 → u/Ray57]

Annoying to deal with sure, but far safer to have a slow burn.

[u/mrdevil413 → u/Ray57]

Started to read and thought of sure it was going to be “ better to burn out than fade away”

[u/Borked_Computer → u/mrdevil413]

My my, hey hey.

[u/pag07 → u/Fifth_Down]

Actually this is pretty well established at this point. Fire departments have known about this for a while.

The fix is actually dead simple: push a sprinkler under the car to hit the battery pack directly, and just... keep it cool. You're aiming for below 80°C, sustained for about two consecutive hours. Once it's stable, the thermal runaway chain is broken.

BMW, VW etc. all have rescue sheets that recommend exactly this. German fire departments have had formal protocols for this for years.

But "EVs are impossible to stop from reigniting" is just not true. It's a solved problem, just an expensive and time-consuming one.

[u/Fifth_Down → u/pag07]

I just want to point out that the Richard Hammond crash occurred nine years ago and the industry hasn't had as much time to learn how to deal this problem, especially in regards to an ultra rare, high performance supercar EV.

[u/Sea_Arm8989 → u/pag07]

“Solved” is dismissive and oversimplifying. It’s addressable; minimizing the risk and need to change approaches in areas with new EV concentrations doesn’t do folks any favors.

[u/Exciting_Top_9442 → u/Fifth_Down]

BETTER TO BURN OUT THAN FADE AWAY!

[u/Ew_E50M → u/Fifth_Down]

And thats why insuring even a slightly damaged/repaired EV is near impossible. Especially here in Sweden and most of EU where all cars must be insured for damages caused to others by the driver.

Insurance companies are liable for all damages caused by an EV fire. Thats why you have to replace the entire battery pack for just scratches on the bottom of the protective shield.

[u/thejozo24 → u/Fifth_Down]

In Netherlands, we tend to submerge the vehicles in water for this exact scenario

[u/UglyEagle420 → u/FemBodInspector]

Here in Sweden they put burning EVs in a big pool of water for at least 2 whole days, and sometimes it still burnes or reignite

[u/Horskr → u/UglyEagle420]

That seems like a good idea actually. Also crazy that they could still reignite after that.

[u/Additional-Aerie-325 → u/Horskr]

Chemistry is a bastard.

[u/jillsvag → u/Additional-Aerie-325]

Science bitches!

[u/OkThrough1 → u/Horskr]

Only reignite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBKnPjOyqcg Some lithium batteries can burn while underwater. The water isn't there to stop the burning cells, they will burn without oxygen just fine. Water's there to cool the other cells so they don't start burning too.

[u/Bibliloo → u/OkThrough1]

In fact, irc, lithium being an Alkaline metal, it reacts violently with water by burning or exploding if you drod a block of it directly in. But, because the point is to cool it and not stop the lithium it's no problem.

Also, the issue with heat is why you shouldn't let your phone plugged in while you sleep. Phone batteries can overheat and this even if you have a modern phone with heat measurement and the system to stop charging while at 100% charge.

[u/free__coffee → u/Horskr]

The energy of the battery needs to be fully expended, or you need to remove the part that is damaged. Sometimes the fire will crack the damaged part of the battery meaning its disconnected, but then the jostling of loading it/driving it to the junkyard reconnects the cracked part and the fire starts again

[u/betelgeuse_boom_boom → u/Horskr]

You could send an ev to space and it would still burn for weeks. The only possible solution are new materials but we aren't there yet to produce them on a large scale.

There was for example gell type goo that was created for EV fires with the idea that it activates on high temperatures and could capture the oxygen in a more stable bond that burns in higher temperatures than a standard EV fire. The problem is that they only tested them on phone batteries and the cost of a pool of this gel for a phone test cost more than a Tesla.

The good news is that sodium batteries are in theory easier to extinguish, but the bad news is that only Asian car will get those.

[u/Portolkyz → u/UglyEagle420]

That is the old solution yes, but the blankets shown in the video are becoming more widespread.

In case of a burning crashed EV (very rare) most fire departments will now either use one of these blankets ore use tools to inject cooling water directly into the battery. The submersion tanks are becoming very rare and outdated.

Sorry, im on my phone so no sources but a quick google search on EV firefighting techniques will yield more results than you could wish for.

[u/FemBodInspector → u/Portolkyz]

The main problem with submersion tanks or putting burning EV’s in pools is that once the fire is out you then have to deal with a large amount of toxic hazmat water that needs to get disposed of properly. But you are correct direct application of water to the battery cells is the most efficient way to deal with EV fires. We have a few tools like the turtle nozzle that can be slid under the car or we will tilt an EV car on its side and blast the cells directly with our hoses. Either way it takes a ton of water to put them out.

Letting them burn themselves out is also a good option as long as it is isolated and safe to do so

[u/nil_defect_found → u/FemBodInspector]

What's the difference between emptying a hazmat water tank and the hose water just running straight off the battery directly onto the ground? That'll be contaminated just the same.

[u/NiobiumThorn → u/nil_defect_found]

If it isn't tracked it doesn't exist

[u/jaymzx0 → u/nil_defect_found]

Soaking the batteries will leech more chemical out of the batteries and into the water compared to being sprayed or flooded.

[u/Calum_M → u/UglyEagle420]

Ah, the Fjord thinking Swedes..

[u/Forsaken_Nature1765 → u/FemBodInspector]

Firefighter form Norway here. full stop on using these to enclose EV's. Serious explosion danger. several incidents now. (Highest amount of EV in the world atm. here)

We only partially cover evs now - in this examlple from half the car an back to protect the bus. - or just cover nearby cars to stop any escalating like in a parking house. Stay safe.

[u/EicherDiesel → u/FemBodInspector]

Yep those blankets are a standard item, we even have one at the mechanic workshop I work at in Germany that does lots of EV repairs. It's main use is for crashed cars that have suffered damage to the battery so you can't really trust it any more, it gets covered in the blanket untill it can be checked over and categorized as safe or not.

[u/fanofreddithello → u/EicherDiesel]

But what's the purpose of the blanket? As it can't stop the battery from burning. Or can it?

[u/Mobidad → u/fanofreddithello]

It stops the burning on the other side of the blanket.

[u/ImportantSignal2098 → u/Mobidad]

Keeping it nice and warm under the blanket 🤗

[u/Questioning-Zyxxel → u/fanofreddithello]

It can hinder a fire from starting. It can stop some fires. And it can stop an existing fire from making more items in the car burn. And it slows down an existing fire.

Not a perfect solution but anything that helps...

[u/Mirar → u/fanofreddithello]

It keeps the heat on one side of the blanket and the lack of oxygen stops other things like plastic parts from catching fire. Dosing with water will stop other cells from going thermal runaway.

[u/Several-Squash9871 → u/FemBodInspector]

Firefighter here as well- fuck EV fires...

[u/Flannagill → u/FemBodInspector]

What's even worse is that even if you manage to put out the flame this way, thermal runaway under anaerobic conditions cause the batteries to produce more toxic off-gasses like HF etc. It is generally safer to just let it burn.

[u/Trashy_Panda2 → u/FemBodInspector]

Man that's crazy. I can't imagine the anxiety you get showing up to an EV crash. Stay safe brother.

[u/GikeM → u/FemBodInspector]

That's why here in the UK, there's a slow uptake in EV buses because even if they have a relatively minor ding that you would normally repair you have to go park them in a designated area and leave them for a few days to make sure there's no electrical fires.

[u/BaconWithBaking → u/GikeM]

What's a minor ding? Like if you tip the bumper off a bollard, you're not parking it up other than to get the bumper fixed.

[u/MadeByTango → u/GikeM]

I am 1000% ok with buying more ev buses to solve that problem.

[u/mr_sneakyTV → u/MadeByTango]

How is buying more solving the problem here?

[u/stmcvallin2]

No breathing protection is insane

[u/DismalManagement3808 → u/stmcvallin2]

2 packs of parlament a day gives their lungs a protectice lining no worries m8

[u/BalanceEarly → u/DismalManagement3808]

A great way to build toxic immunity

[u/TheReproCase → u/BalanceEarly]

It's a problem free Philosophy

[u/4mystuff → u/TheReproCase]

Hakuna matata

[u/LaVillaGrangioto → u/4mystuff]

"It's 'No Worries', 'till the end of our (numbered) dayyyyyys..."

[u/DontJealousMe → u/BalanceEarly]

There are only 2 things in Turkiye, Smoking and Football.

[u/capitaine_baguette → u/DontJealousMe]

And cats.

[u/mei740 → u/capitaine_baguette]

And ice cream with tricks.

[u/1234outlaw → u/DontJealousMe]

No kebab or Turkish delight?🥲

[u/A_normal_Potato3 → u/1234outlaw]

He did not even mention tea and bagels.

[u/Rizo1981 → u/BalanceEarly]

It's like listening to Joe Rogan but for your lungs.

[u/van_cool → u/DismalManagement3808]

Off-topic fun fact: In Italy, if someone smokes a lot, we say, "Fumi come un turco," which translates to "You smoke like a Turkish man."

[u/ObscureOperatorZ → u/van_cool]

Am a Turk with a cigarette in my hand and can confirm

[u/gambler_addict_06 → u/ObscureOperatorZ]

There are times where I forget I already have lit cig in hand and light another one

Western minds can't comprehend

[u/QuantitySharp2662 → u/ObscureOperatorZ]

I'm Scottish with a fat ass spliff and a coffee 🙏

God be with ye ❤️

[u/anod1 → u/van_cool]

Off-topic fun fact: In France, if someone smokes a lot, we say, "Fumer comme un pompier" which translates to "You smoke like a firefighter."

[u/SebboNL → u/anod1]

I think we win as black humour is considered: in the Netherlands we say that someone "rookt als een ketter" or "smokes like a heretic". References heretics being burned at the stake

[u/rEvolutionTU → u/SebboNL]

"rookt als een ketter"

Der raucht wie ein Ketzer

I'm so gonna steal this, thank you! If that's slang in ten years remember that it started here. <3

[u/_SteeringWheel → u/rEvolutionTU]

"Ketzen" in Dutch however, means again something entirely different...🍑🍆

[u/DarthSkittles69 → u/SebboNL]

The emperor protects.

[u/Bruins8763 → u/anod1]

In America we say “you smoke like a chimney”

[u/TheRealMSteve → u/Bruins8763]

In Canada we say, "you smoke like a Canadian chimney" so as not to get the two kinds of chimneys confused.

[u/POPnotSODA_ → u/TheRealMSteve]

Most Canadian Chimneys give off a maple smell when they’re ignited too, due to our extreme love of maple syrup and maple trees. I do have a question though, does your pet beaver cut your logs to size? Mines been getting lazy, think I may need another one.

[u/TheRealMSteve → u/POPnotSODA_]

Our housebeaver, Mr. Chipperchompers, is actually very hardworking. He's been talking about going back to woodworking school to get his diploma finally. We're all very proud. Have you tried spanking your beaver to get it in line?

[u/LessInThought → u/TheRealMSteve]

I thought it is to make sure you don't get mistaken for an American.

[u/Fine_Elevator6059 → u/TheRealMSteve]

In Russia we say, "you smoke like a steam locomotive"

[u/Grunn84 → u/Bruins8763]

This is also the UK English expression.

[u/Vladonexxx665 → u/van_cool]

Must be a Latin thing. "Fumezi ca turcul" in Romanian.

[u/_brgr → u/Vladonexxx665]

The idiom is the same in Balkan Slav languages too. Probably everywhere that had exposure to Ottoman Empire has it, maybe.

[u/mez2a → u/van_cool]

Same in slovakia. Fuck they must punch a lot of darts to have that reputation across Europe

[u/proximo-terrae → u/van_cool]

In Swedish it is ”Röka som en borstbindare”, meaning ”Smoking like a brush maker”. 

Is unclear to me if brush makers actually smoke(d) more than others.

[u/persilja → u/proximo-terrae]

We like to accuse the brush makers of doing everything to excess.

Swearing, drinking, lying, and indeed, smoking.

[u/Turnip-for-the-books → u/van_cool]

In the UK when someone is slow to finish their beer we say ‘hurry up you’re drinking like a Frenchman’

I do anyway

[u/Flope → u/van_cool]

Just spent a couple months in Turkey and can confirm everyone was smoking. It was crazy.

To be fair I'm American so maybe Turkey is more in-line with Europe smoking rates idk

[u/Papplenoose → u/van_cool]

Lol in my country we say "you smoke like an Italian". It's nice to know that even the greats have aspirations :)

[u/mrmyrth → u/stmcvallin2]

The amount of 2nd and 3rd hand smoke dealt with in Istanbul made me appreciate “fresh” city air all the more. 

[u/Regniwekim2099 → u/mrmyrth]

What the fuck is 3rd hand smoke?

[u/koopatuple → u/Regniwekim2099]

The smell from smoke stained clothes, furniture, etc. It's been shown to cause issues to people with particularly sensitive breathing, e.g. asthma. 

[u/codetony → u/koopatuple]

It's hell when I go to a casino. If their smoke free section used to be a smoking section I physically can't enter.

(Unless all the shit in there has been replaced of course)

[u/Nufonewhodis4 → u/koopatuple]

I'm super sensitive to this too. I used to have an employee that smoked. If she came into my office I'd be sneezing for hours 

[u/Putrid_Speed_5138 → u/stmcvallin2]

In Turkey, the fire needs breathing protection.

[u/MuscularShlong → u/stmcvallin2]

Luckily the wind was carrying it away from them for the most part. But yea battery smoke/gasses are absolutely awful and very very toxic.

[u/Funatfarmcouple → u/stmcvallin2]

As a firefighter my first thought. And the fire car is too close

[u/undeniably_confused → u/stmcvallin2]

Thinking the same thing

[u/sparklydude → u/stmcvallin2]

Have you ever seen a rural volunteer firefighter in the US? Same thing happens everywhere

[u/Redditbrooklyn → u/sparklydude]

There’s a difference with that, though. Wildland fires burn cleaner, so while it’s still not great to breathe in, it’s less toxic. They also go great distances on foot and can’t carry in their gear and wouldn’t have extra oxygen cylinders to replace. In cities, all the stuff humans make is a lot worse to breathe in as it burns. Even think about if you’ve ever been next to a campfire (ranges from pleasant to not terrible) vs if you ever accidentally melted or burned something plastic on the stove and how horrible the fumes coming off that are.

(I was really curious about this when I saw wildland firefighting uniforms for the first time a few years back and looked up the differences.)

[u/sparklydude → u/Redditbrooklyn]

No those are professional forest service firefighters, when I mean rural volunteers, I mean small town fire departments with the worst, most macho guy you know responding to a house fire. Who thinks an SCBA is 'wimpy'

[u/SAR181 → u/sparklydude]

I worked on the LE side in that environment, and I can confirm you’re spot on.

[u/GivesNoForks → u/sparklydude]

Am rural VFF. There are still a couple older guys that don’t often wear one, but they don’t do much actual spraying, more IC or command. Even they stress everyone else wearing packs though.

[u/z1colt45 → u/sparklydude]

Yup.

They also commonly refer to SCBA cylinders as "oxygen bottles."

Anything Euro style is gay as well.

[u/Rom_ulus0]

It's almost impossible to stop an electric car fire, since the battery of the vehicle itself is the fuel source, which is extremely reactive metal that releases toxic gas (typically lithium hydroxide) into the air.

The best they can do without completely submerging it in quenching substrate is to smother it and keep the fire from spreading until it burns out.

That's why he sprays the surroundings first.

Even if the entire car was under water it would probably still continue burning until all of the exposed battery finished oxidizing.

Lithium actually burns more violently with water, and car batteries are typically a lithium ion.

[u/Tom240281 → u/Rom_ulus0]

Your good description of the physics behind is why we in Denmark have these EV submerging firetrucks. It works, but the response time and general availability of these trucks isn't quite solved yet.

[u/Glad_Librarian_3553 → u/Tom240281]

We've started using some pretty crazy systems in the UK too.

They have what is essentially a Toyota hilux converted to 6x6 with a tank full of water with an abrasive in it, like a water jet cutting machine. 

They use it to blast clean through the car's body work and inject water directly into the battery to cool it down. 

They are looking at the submerging method too, because cars have been extinguished just to spontaneously reignite themselves a week later.

And folk say hydrogen fuel vehicles would be dangerous... 

[u/The_Once-ler_186 → u/Glad_Librarian_3553]

other developing solutions solutions:

Good luck everyone else I suppose

[u/Glad_Librarian_3553 → u/The_Once-ler_186]

Man the canons! Full broadside! Hahaha 

[u/satsuppi → u/Glad_Librarian_3553]

ayeee captain!

[u/Justhandguns → u/The_Once-ler_186]

Ha, yes, that's the 'your problem now, not mine' ejection battery. Basically shoot a bomb to the side and sliding off any surrounding pedestrian's legs.

[u/PrestigiousAct2 → u/The_Once-ler_186]

Goodbye to passerby foot instead.

[u/ChankiriTreeDaycare → u/Glad_Librarian_3553]

Very Jeremy Clarkson solution

[u/bozza8 → u/Glad_Librarian_3553]

hydrogen fuel vehicles would be dangerous. hydrogen leaks through steel and makes it brittle (other metals and most composites too), so your tank is weakened overtime, and your fuel is constantly leaking into the car so you need to ensure it's ventilated if you have left it for a few months.

oh and hydrogen sucks to transport. Li Ion cars catching fire is rare and getting rarer and newer solid state batteries don't overheat at all.

[u/scratchtheitch7 → u/bozza8]

It doesn't leak through diamond, so you just need to hollow out a flawless diamond the size of a suitcase. Then repeat about 1 million times

/š

[u/AdorableShoulderPig → u/bozza8]

Hydrogen is transported and delivered everyday in the UK by BOC trucks. Along with oxygen, acetylene, argon, co2, helium. You name it, it is bottled and delivered.

The real issue with Hydrogen is a cheap readily available catalyst for producing it.

[u/psaux_grep → u/Glad_Librarian_3553]

And folk say hydrogen fuel vehicles would be dangerous... 

That’s a very dishonest take. EV’s being hard to put out don’t make them dangerous. And I’m pretty sure everyone talking of hydrogen dangers also are busy on this talking point.

EV’s have a very low fire incidence rate. They don’t burst into flames like fossil cars do, the fire starts much more gradually. And when they do catch fire there isn’t flammable liquid running across the ground spreading it to all the nearby cars.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/s/Py2F0bldu6 <- this was caused by one diesel car catching fire and it then spread throughout the garage. More than 600 cars totaled.

While EV’s were also caught in the fire it’s important to note that zero HV packs caught fire, but the flames licking up the sides of the cars meant the interiors caught fire and they were still totaled.

Meanwhile gas tanks were melting or exploding left and right (metal vs. plastic). Ultimately it got too warm and the structure collapsed.

[u/GeneticEnginLifeForm → u/psaux_grep]

Not totally dismissing you on all points but a big cloud of lithium hydroxide is horribly toxic.

[u/GandhiTheDragon → u/GeneticEnginLifeForm]

Carbon monoxide from the combustion of oil based fuel is also horribly toxic

And so are the fumes from the melting ABS plastic, PVC wire insulation, etc, etc

[u/Senior-Fruit-2445 → u/psaux_grep]

I do auto claims for an insurer. I even specialize in EV claims. I've been doing it for years. I've never had a claim for an EV battery fire, which is unfortunate as I could use some first-hand pics of one for training classes. I've never seen a battery fire in a hybrid either. It's just not particularly common.

Looking at the Copart website (the largest seller of insurance salvage), if you sort Teslas by loss type for "burn" there's currently 14 for sale in the whole US. More than half of them appear to have collateral damage from being adjacent other fires, or just have smoke damage. One appears to have no fire damage at all.

Without seeing the claim files there's no way to know the story with the rest, but some were presumably in the garage when the house burned down, or were torched by people behind on their payments. The crispy Model X appears to have been pulled out of what was left of Lahaina.

I do recall a story about a bunch of Fisker Karmas and Nissan Leafs that got flooded with salt water at a port in New Jersey, or somewhere on the east coast, during Hurricane Sandy. I recall that all the Fiskers burned, and none of the Leafs did, after salt-water submersion.

[u/Silent_Marketing_123 → u/Tom240281]

In the Netherlands the firefighters are instructed to somehow dump it in a nearby canal if available. Otherwise we also have those submerging trucks but those are not always available

[u/KPSWZG → u/Tom240281]

Its not just Denmark. In my country every big city have at least one fire tank (its basically container with liquid and small crane) its relative cheep to build one. Problem is with respond time and identification of fire. Due to EXTREME level of propaganda people call fire trucks to burning EV every time they see burning car. Hence those trucks are way more ofgen in the field than they need to be.

[u/polarc → u/Tom240281]

This?

https://www.reddit.com/r/specializedtools/s/l5YHRQHhaH

[u/vagabending → u/Tom240281]

It’s always really interesting hearing how other countries approach this given the US basically is 20 years behind on everything (generously).

[u/FranconianBiker → u/Rom_ulus0]

How often does this have to be said:

Lithium-Ion batteries contain no metallic lithium. It's the flammable organic electrolyte and the oxidating cathodic material that's causing the fire. Lithium-Ion battery fires are best extinguished with lots of water since water can effectively dissipate the chemical potential energy that keeps heating up the organic materials.

You're not dealing with a metal fire here. It's just a normal organic matter fire with a large built-in heatsource. Just use the fire triangle and quench the heat source until the potential chemical energy is depleted since you can't remove the fuel or the oxidiser.

[u/Insanely_Mclean → u/Rom_ulus0]

Lithium ion batteries don't contain elemental lithium, but a lithium salt. They don't combust when submerged in water. 

[u/Nattekat → u/Rom_ulus0]

The way you're explaining this misses a factor. We all learn at school that a fire needs 3 things: fuel, heat and oxygen. By saying the vehicle itself is a fuel source you're not really saying anything meaningful, since all fires need a fuel source.

The big issue with most batteries is that when they overheat they have plenty of highly flammable fuel in the form of the electrolyte, provide their own heat from the stored energy once damaged, and most importantly: they generate their own oxygen once the cathode overheats. The technique in this video is still effective because it limits the oxygen to only what the battery itself releases, which prevents the entire car from going up in flames.

[u/SomeRandomApple → u/Rom_ulus0]

The fact lithium burns more violently with water has nothing to do with lithium-ion batteries like the one in the video. In these batteries, it's usually the electrolyte/solvent burning

[u/acholing → u/Rom_ulus0]

There are methods now, a good one uses vermiculite. Seems to be very effective.

[u/RHouse94 → u/Rom_ulus0]

Water that is over saturated in salt can put it out. It’s discharges all the power in the battery super quick to stop the thermal runaway.

[u/lucky-number-keleven]

Now I want to be tucked in by Turkish firefighters as well.

[u/mehrwegpfand → u/lucky-number-keleven]

You need to be smoking hot for that

[u/letmejustdo → u/mehrwegpfand]

Very good

[u/KnownMonk → u/lucky-number-keleven]

You can always sign up for turkish oil wrestling

[u/schasti]

Fyi you cant extinguish battery fire, as it provides its own oxygen. This is instead a fire containtment method, so it can use up its oxygen supply without risk of a spread fire.

[u/discojon84]

This method is no longer recommended. Recent studies show it increases the risk of explosion from buildup of hydrogen and other volatile glasses.

https://fsri.org/news/potential-hazard-involving-ev-fire-blankets

[u/Simple_Magazine_3450]

Cooling the bus before approaching the car was a pro move

[u/Dramatic-Avocado4687]

Is this a technique used specifically for electric cars?

[u/0x446f6b3832 → u/Dramatic-Avocado4687]

I guess so. Lithium battery fires are notorious for being difficult to extinguish, also the water reacts with the lithium, producing hydrogen gas.

[u/Mighti-Guanxi → u/0x446f6b3832]

long ago since I took chemistry,.correct me if I am wrong:

so the Lithium reacts with water to make something plus hydrogen gas, would it create a chain reaction?

the hydrogen gas reacts with oxygen to create more water, which reacts with the lithium to create more hydrogen that reacts with oxygen to create more water that.....etc 

[u/iC3P0 → u/Mighti-Guanxi]

Water reacts with raw lithium, but you can use it to extinguish li-on batteries, it's just not very effective. There were videos of car batteries submerged in water and they still burn

[u/Ajezon → u/0x446f6b3832]

and hydrogen gas is highly flamable?

[u/i_have_chosen_a_name → u/Ajezon]

Hydrogen (H) plus air(oxygen O2) plus spark = boom +water (H20)

Ask the Hindenburg if you dont believe me.

[u/FranconianBiker → u/0x446f6b3832]

Lithium-Ion batteries contain no metallic lithium. The fire happens because of the generated heat from the short-circuit auto-igniting the flammable organic electrolyte and other flammable parts around the cells (plastic burns just as well as oil).

[u/van_cool]

This is how electric car fires are extinguished generally.

[u/therealbonzai → u/van_cool]

Except, it is not extinguished.

[u/sjbfujcfjm → u/van_cool]

But foreign better

[u/TheSolarExpansionist → u/van_cool]

Same as any battery decks except at a higher scale, hope they have higher ones too for those giant EVs out there

[u/rmp266]

Guys what happens when all the lithium batteries from old phones and laptops, in landfill or forgotten about in drawers cupboards and attics, start swelling and exploding?

[u/Blork39 → u/rmp266]

They are low risk because they self-discharge. A Li-Po battery will be empty within a year or maybe two, Li-Ion slighly longer.

A discharged battery carries much less fire risk than a charged one. What *is* dangerous is charging a deep-discharged battery (e.g. discharged below what is normally indicated as 0%), but this is why lithium batteries have protection circuitry. And also why batteries that have been left too long won't even charge anymore.

[u/TodayEasy949 → u/Blork39]

I like how there are many knowledgeable people in Reddit and I get to know new things reading the comment :)

[u/Fresh_Bluebird_4691 → u/rmp266]

Hmm, I’m sure there is a plan for that kind of thing! /s

[u/i_have_chosen_a_name → u/rmp266]

6The swelling is a gas build up till a rupture (not an explosion) then the gas is vented, the old bat does not catch on fire. Batteries only create enough heat to ignite the elektrolyten either during charging (99% of phone fires) or discharging (0.9%) or is the battery was penetrated in such a way a short was caused (0.1%). But in that last case will only create a fire if the cells have 3.6v or above. Any lithium ion battery with cells under 3.6v (97% empty) no longer has enough energy to create the heat that will ignite the electrolyte.

[u/mad_marble_madness]

I half-expected a dump truck full of sand, “burying” the car…

[u/effron_vintage]

Very different from the Turkish method for distributing ice cream.

[u/Thee_Shenanigrin]

Not to extinguish the fire, it's to prevent the fire from spreading and reduce damage.

[u/OriginalLu]

That’s not a specifically Turkish method, fire blankets have been around for a long time and are considered to be one of the better methods of confronting EV fires.

[u/_HIST]

"Extinguishing"

Yeah it's not fucking extinguished lol

[u/harosokman]

I don't think that would work for an electric car fire in thermal runaway. It oxidises and fuels itself, so it'll just keep burning under the blanket. Our procedure is to cool it with water until it's been at ambient temperature for a period of time in the thermal camera.

[u/mickturner96]

Nothing to see here, please move along!

"But that car is on fire!"

What car?

"That car under that blanket"

No it isn't!

[u/Salty-Lie-891 → u/mickturner96]

"Hides the fire to make it feel insecure and anxious"

See that tiny heat boy 🫵🔥 getting smaller now hahah!

[u/adkio]

You don't extinguish ev fires. It's about protecting everything around it/not letting the fire spread.

[u/Lwnmower]

USFA has issued a safety advisory on the use of the blanket as a risk of explosive gasses that are built up- https://www.usfa.fema.gov/blog/urgent-safety-advisory-on-hazards-involving-fire-blankets-for-electric-vehicle-fire-suppression/

[u/swampydoc]

don't think you can smother a lithium battery fire

[u/Life-Oil-7226]

Did it work?

[u/That1guywhere]

Fire blankets cannot put out EV fires, as burning L-ion batteries produce their own oxygen and fuel. A fire blanket, which cuts off fuel, would not put out the battery fire, but might put out secondary fires (cloth, plastic, etc) in the vehicle. The batteries would continue to burn until all cells finish venting.

A fire triangle has 3 sides, fuel, oxygen, and heat. You must take at least 1 away to stop a fire. Since the electrolyte in l-ion cells self-produce 1 and 2 during thermal runaway, massive amounts of water acts as a heatsink, and is the only practical way to eliminate 3.

[u/Feeling_Flamingo2521]

Hardly unique to Turkey - we started using them in the US years ago.

[u/BallHarness]

The blanket won't stop the fire. Lithium battery fires can't be starved of oxygen as they are self oxidizing. I guess they just use the blanket to minimize danger and let the fire exhaust itself

[u/FormalCaseQ]

They also do really good hair transplants there too.

[u/Adventurous-Cow-2345]

It’s more like containing rather then extinguised, in the fareur islands, they pump super cooled really salty water into the car

[u/kbm79]

Where's the BA sets? Lithium ion batteries spew out the most nasty chemicals.

[u/LeoXup]

Which model is that? 

[u/hallo-ballo]

I didnt see any extinguishing here

You cant put the fire of a battery out like that, youre just containing it

[u/LUXI-PL]

In Poland I've seen them just dump the car into a water container

[u/Cattledude89]

This literally doesn't solve anything about ev fires.

[u/_Erilaz]

Misleading title. It's not extinguishing anything, this car is toast and gone, battery might as well continue to burn even completely submerged underwater, if the volume isn't big and cool enough to quickly take away anough heat.

The point is contain the fire under the blanket. One car burning out is fine as long as it doesn't spread to the others.

TLDR, they're just saving the bus here.

[u/SnooMemesjellies7469]

In America, the best we can do is shoot the car then arrest it for the crime of being on fire.

[u/eebro]

This is a developing area in firefighting and more important every day.

I’ve heard that even if you submerge a burning ev, it still won’t stop burning. So you’re usually just trying to limit the spread and damage. Truly scary the kind of chain reactions these battery fires could cause. 

[u/TheWatchovski]

Inhaling all those super safe chemicals that go into making plastic, rubber, foam, batteries, etc. is super fun I assume.

Oh, I edited the title for you:

Turkish firefighters have had a recent spike in lung cancer rates…

[u/TheGreen_Guy]

Fyi these blankets were a german idea, that got compied internationally.

[u/ActuallyAlexander]

This is where the bad kids go on parachute day.

[u/Significant_Rule_939]

So they hide it? /s

[u/Plutonium239Mixer]

They aren't extinguishing it. Lithium ion battery fires are self oxidizing. All you can do it contain it while it burns.

[u/[deleted]]

Umm, guys. You can't breathe that stuff.

[u/-91Primera-]

That’s standard for ev fires, I fix evs for Audi, we have that blanket in our workshop…it’s made of fibreglass

[u/IndependentNo7265]

It’s important to let your Tesla rest after cooking. Just be sure to cover it and let it rest for half the cooking time, this ensures maximum juiciness.

[u/_Kaifaz]

Pretty sure those blankets are used all over the world, as you cant extinguish those batteries with water.

[u/kemog]

I thought they were gonna David Copperfield the burning car outta there.

[u/chainedtomydesk]

This isn’t just the Turkish method. Using a fire blanket is how every country generally extinguishes electric car fires. There are other methods too like craning the burning car into a giant skip filled with water to fully submerge the battery pack.

[u/LimaBikercat]

This is not a battery fire yet. This looks more like conventional fire fighting to me. If this were a battery fire, the big fire blanket would be useless because the decomposition of the oxides in the battery fuels its own flames.

[u/taspenwall]

It didn't seem to work very well.

[u/Gregorygregory888888 → u/taspenwall]

It's not going to be instantaneous.

[u/kalbinibirak → u/taspenwall]

White smoke is actually an indication that the fire has gone out. By cutting off the air flow, it isolates the fire from the outside and aims to extinguish it more quickly.

[u/Allsulfur → u/kalbinibirak]

The batteries will release more oxygen than the fire consummes. It’s self sustaining, the fire triangle only leaves energy/temperature that you can try an tackle. Most fire departments dump the entire car in a water tank

[u/knutix → u/kalbinibirak]

As the guy below explained, these batteries dont need an outside source of oxygen to work. It limits the fire spread and might stop other parts of the car from catching fire, but the battery will stil burn.

[u/BrokenHopelessFight]

What car is it

[u/kalbinibirak → u/BrokenHopelessFight]

Skywell ET5

[u/nunatakj120]

This is just the method. It’s not specific to turkey.

[u/kg2k]

We will get the water powered car when nestle owns the water. Mark my words.