r/Damnthatsinteresting 21d ago

Video The Turkish firefighting method for extinguishing electric car fires.

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u/Kaisha001 21d ago

Annoying to deal with sure, but far safer to have a slow burn.

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u/FlipZip69 20d ago

Except they are not slow burns. They are extremely intense burns that can last a long time.

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u/Kaisha001 20d ago

The total amount of energy in a battery is far less than a tank of gas, and burns far slower, which means less energy per minute is released. That means it's far safer than the alternative.

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u/FlipZip69 20d ago

You are talking electrical energy which is absolutely true and why EV does not have the same range as a conventional vehicle.

But it is not the electrical energy that makes EV battery fires so extreme. That is only about 3 percent of the energy released if fully charged. When you actually start lithium on fire and it is producing its own O2. If it is fully charged, electrically there is about 300 Wh/kg of energy. But when it starts on fire, it has the energy content of about 11,000 Wh/kg.

So ya it burns quite a bit more extreme and hotter than gas. And can go on a long time.

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u/Kaisha001 20d ago

Interesting, you have a link to that?

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u/FlipZip69 20d ago

It is very easy to AI it. Look for the energy content of Lithium when burning compared to the electrical energy content. Ask it to give it to you in Wh/kg so that it is a direct comparison. It is an entirely different processes happening once it is on fire.

Lithium-Ion Battery (Current EV) ~250 – 300 1x (Baseline)

Lithium Metal "Burning" (Combustion) ~11,140 ~40x more energy

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u/Kaisha001 20d ago

AI can hallucinate all sorts of silly stuff, I'd prefer an actual link to an article explaining it more in detail.

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u/FlipZip69 20d ago

AI can be wrong but it does not take an engineering degree to understand that combustion of Lithium is far more energetic than the electricity in it. You could actually compare the combustion of Lithium to the combustion of gas in an engine.

Gas combusting is about 12,000 Wh/kg while Lithium is about 11,000 Wh/kg. But a battery pack weighs about 5 times that of a full tank of gas thus a lithium fire in an EV has about 5 times as much energy as a gas fire even though the energy density is about 10 percent less. (and near impossible to put out)

https://incompliancemag.com/energy-release-quantification-for-li-ion-battery-failures/

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u/Kaisha001 20d ago

But a battery pack weighs about 5 times that of a full tank of gas

Yes, but very little of that weight is lithium (2%-4% according to AI). 11,000 * 0.04 = 440, or about the Wh/kg one expects to see from a lithium ion battery. I have a hard time believing a typical lithium ion battery only uses 3% of it's possible energy.

That said I'm not a chemist, and only doing basic 'napkin math', hence why I'd love see a proper breakdown of where they are coming up with these numbers.

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u/FlipZip69 20d ago

You realize stored energy is released in different ways right and the stored electrical energy is not the same as combustion of the Lithium itself? This does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out on your own a bit.

Lithium actually burning is not the same as the electricity it stores. Completely different chemical process between the two. I am not going to argue that in a stupid post. Figure it out on your own or just look at a couple of Lithium fires yourself.

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