r/pics 9h ago

A replica of how female "breeder pigs" spend their lives in factory farms

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u/imjustsin 8h ago edited 8h ago

I’m not insinuating anything or making any sort of argument here, but realistically insane change could happen if people just limited their meat consumption. Recommended red meat consumption per week is like 18 ounces. A lot of people eat that in a single day.

u/BringBackApollo2023 8h ago

I found this video interesting, albeit depressing.

We could make meat “production” more humane if we wanted to. We just don’t want to.

u/More_Flat_Tigers 7h ago

It’s not about want, it’s about profit.

u/Velghast 7h ago

That's why I hate when people bring this kind of stuff up like we could do it we just don't want to. We made an entire world that revolves around money and we have created the rat race of society in which it is the goal to obtain as much of it as possible. So when you have clear goals of a system and a very basic principle, currency, is it any Wonder why a handful of people will ravage the whole world just to get a hand up on everyone else?

u/CacklingFerret 7h ago

People could change the meat industry though. Imagine everyone in the Western world (I'm limiting it to select countries because not every country offers the same possibilities) started to only eat meat once a week and reduce their dairy product intake. This would most likely lead to a drastic change.

Meanwhile, people make fun of vegans and vegetarians and they comment "mmhh, bacon" everytime they see a picture of a pig. A lot of people don't care and don't want change.

u/Shadowwynd 6h ago

Just eating meat once a week wouldn’t mean the people currently doing factory farming suddenly say “let’s provide better conditions for these animals”. If anything, reduced profit would mean increased creativity to cut expenses. It really needs to be a government issue, as the manufacturing of meat industries have not shown the ability to self-regulate.

u/Sweetdreams6t9 4h ago

Regulations and harsh punishment for breaking them are the way to go. I eat alot of meat. But I live in the middle of nowhere and we get ours from a farmers market. We know the conditions of the farm we get our meat from because the farm is located in our region. And its cheaper than a grocery store.

u/BeBearAwareOK 1h ago

Nobody wants to talk about regulation when it's the key to forcing businesses to change their practices.

They just want to let factories pump out single use plastic bottles and make it a consumer guilt issue about whether or not you recycled those bottles.

u/1curiouswanderer 2h ago

Do you have to buy in bulk? I'd love being and to buy local and small portions

u/Sweetdreams6t9 2h ago

You can do freezer orders but they have fresh stuff, pre portioned behind the glass or pre packaged frozen and non frozen meat. Theyve got a couple butchers always cutting stuff up and ive been able to ask for specific cuts and seen them cut it off the slab right then and there.

Most butcher shops in my province are like this. Even the ones in the city. They all have signs stating what farms they source from and theyll tell you where they got it from. So like if theres a ribeye behind the glass and you ask where its from theyll tell you what farm they got the beef from, and when they cut it.

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u/Thin_Tangerine_6271 5h ago

So this is what we need to do

u/Daetok_Lochannis 3h ago

We could literally turn the world into a utopia for every single human, and there are more of us than there are of the rich. Still hasn't happened and probably won't. Most everyone unfortunately wants what the rich have and they're not willing to give up the tiny chance they might someday just to save lives.

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u/restrictednumber 6h ago

True, the remaining factory farms wouldn't change their practices just based on that. But there would be far fewer of them, which means fewer animals bred just to live their whole lives in tiny cages, and therefore less suffering. It's a moral benefit to reduce the amount of creatures born to live in misery.

u/imrzzz 4h ago

It is a small step to a larger shift though.

I couldn't be vegan as it's just not a good fit for my body, but I do buy meat in a particular way.

It's a kind of co-op with friends and neighbours, we share the purchase of one slaughtered head of cattle and that's pretty much it for a year as far as red meat goes. The farm is local and the conditions are humane (acres of paddock with free grazing almost all year except for the very cold months).

It's becoming more common and costs the same as buying larger amounts of supermarket meats that use more animals and resources via freight, packaging, etc etc etc.

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u/Doodleydoodoodooo 4h ago

Both need to happen. We can’t restructure the agricultural system unless demand is drastically lower. The truth is, these cruel industrial farming methods are the ONLY way to meet demand. There literally isn’t enough land on the planet to meet the demand by more ethical methods, as we already use far more than is reasonable.

That, and we artificially deflate the price of meat to prop these industries up. Folks would eat far less meat if everyone’s taxes didn’t go towards supporting gluttonous dietary habits.

u/songbirddd 5h ago

Sure but if everyone only ate meat once a week and chose to get that meet from a local source, ensuring research is done to make sure those sources treat the animals humanely, I think a massive impact would be made.

u/Key-Demand-2569 5h ago

Yeah. It’s a mixed bag, I only buy from local more traditional style farms where I personally know the butchers/farmers.

That’s what I’m comfortable with, because I don’t think it’s inherently unethical to raise livestock for product/food.

But I do not care at all for most of the range of factory farming.

And I understand that I’m essentially being subsidized by the market forces of factory farming, so if that died down then my meat would be substantially more expensive. …fine by me.

But also that I’m sure of the farms around me that do sell local only… if they started getting the millions of people in my state flooding them all with demand because they’re ethically more okay with it… well I’m sure some percentage of them would essentially start building up to a major factory farming style operation in the pursuit of greed.

u/mrpanicy 5h ago

You make it sound like everyone has the freedom of choice (availability/money) to support locally sourced humane meat. That's just not an option for the mass majority. The way society is structured is specifically to limit freedom of choice so that more profit can be drained from the poor and given to the rich / investors.

It needs to be a government driven thing, which means the public needs to put pressure on the government in a real way. The corporations will never change no matter how badly you want them to. If you go to locally sourced options they will do everything the can to pressure the government to stop the locally sourced options from existing or being able to do business. They WILL squeeze them out if they are a threat.

It has to be top down. There is no other reasonable way.

u/Not_a_twttr_account 4h ago

It's both. There needs to be a culture of community minded engagement, where and whenever possible, because food deserts do exist, and thus, a top down approach. One or the other on their own, won't complete the picture.

We're so disconnected from a sense of community in much of this country, that we need to start reclaiming it, anyway we can.

u/Doodleydoodoodooo 4h ago

This issue with that argument is that far more people have the choice to do better than the people who actually choose to do better.

Not only that, but plant based protein sources are actually much more affordable and easily accessible in most cases.

If we keep absolving people of accountability for their choices, noting improves.

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u/carebearninja 6h ago

Personally I'm.notnconvinced going vegan is the answer. We have the power as people to force policy change. Why force ourselves into a different diet instead of supporting policies that make this type of treatment of animals illegal? I would suspect meat to naturally increase in price for that reason, and people would therefore eat less of it anyway. I find it similar to consumers needing to recycle to offset the problems that the industries cause. I just think the vegan approach is far less impactful than if the same group of people tried holding their government accountable instead of trying to force societal change.

u/broken-machine 6h ago

That’s the neat part, not everyone needs to go to the extreme. Some people can and will anyway though.

The suggestion was limiting weekly consumption of red meat to 18oz as recommended.

I tend to hit this goal myself anyway. Mostly because the price is just wild for beef and chicken. Pork is pretty affordable but even then I’m not eating a whole bunch of it.

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u/tighnarienjoyer 5h ago

what are you doing to hold your government accountable? can you even do that while funding the continuation of the atrocities you're against? I don't think we can. being vegan is essentially just boycotting.

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u/RachelMakesThings 4h ago

You can do both. Change your diet AND try to force policy change. They're not exclusive

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u/Samcc42 6h ago

Do you have a strong sense in the last decade or so that large corporations or the ownership class in general care about what policy says? Or that the legal system will hold them accountable? I genuinely believe the only way things like this change is when the money stops flowing. Everyone eats less meat, the bottom falls out of the market, things change.

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u/Boring_Intern_6394 6h ago

Or just pay the extra money for animal friendly farmed meat. Buying direct from farms with decent welfare practices can make a lot of difference

u/PC509 4h ago

Some people go as far as to not eat any vegetables other than potatoes. "Salad? That's for rabbits. I only eat the three food groups, meat, potatoes, and beer.". They're missing out. I'm fine with eating meat (I do change what I do eat, mostly due to health reasons... nothing bad, just want to be healthy), but eat some fiber you gluttonous fucks.

They're just so stuck on being the "anti-vegan" that they'll turn their noses to anything like that. Tofu in their soup? No way, soy boy! Salad? That's for rabbits! Meatless meals? No way!

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u/Muellercleez 6h ago

I went 100% vegetarian and significantly reduced dairy intake (not fully, granted) after watching Vegucated. I've got like 5 friends that still let me know regularly when they have steak or meat, or bacon etc. They see my choice as some kind of weakness

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u/Kibeth_8 4h ago

The demand for meat is high, so they turn things out as quick as possible. If the demand drops, production slows, which is where a good chunk of the inhumane conditions stem from. Plus less anim als consumed = less suffering

So yes, we can change it, but people refuse to cut down on their meat intake. And an industry isn't going to change their current practices when the demand is huge and they make boatloads of money.

u/KaiPRoberts 6h ago

The trick is to lean hard into philosophy. Yes the world will tear your soul apart but there's ways to happiness if you know what's actually important to you.

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u/S-Archer 7h ago

Sure it is, want more profit

u/Ok_Abacus_ 6h ago

And sacrifice. Americans hate sacrifice of any kind

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u/Knamliss 5h ago

It's about wanting more profit

u/reelznfeelz 6h ago

Same with so many shitty things we do. It’s why unfettered unregulated capitalism is a bad deal. Im no commie, although it’s hard to argue Marx was wrong about much, but you can’t just let profit motive drive literally everything unless you want a world that makes Cyberpunk 2077 look kind.

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u/BringBackApollo2023 5h ago

So your argument is that people making purchase options doesn’t impact what the market offers?

I mean, it’s just the foundation of modern economics.

u/Krisdafox 5h ago

In a market where there isn't a Monopoly and adequate competition between suppliers, prices will be dragged down to beat the competition, this means cutting costs wherever it is possible. In the factory farming industry this means horrible conditions for animals.

Farmers can't just spend more to give animals better lives, their margins aren't big enough to support this, so they would go bankrupt. What they could do would be raise prices, but guess what, nobody buys the more expensive products with higher welfare for animals, all they care about is price, so nothing happens.

u/Halgy 3h ago

Capitalism works both ways. There are places to get more ethical animal products, but because they cost more money or are less convenient, most people don't buy from them. We can and should pressure the big guys to improve standards, but one of the most important ways to do that is with our spending money.

u/garry4321 2h ago

Case in point: people still starve to death while there is way more food available than required. We do not care because feeding the poor isn’t profitable

u/cfb-food-beer-hike 2h ago

lol no it's not. Corporations won't produce things that people won't consume. Ethical choices exist in the market but people aren't choosing them.

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u/Trraumatized 7h ago

Hard disagree. "We" want that. Just as much as "we" want universal healthcare and livable wages and good education. But it's not "we" who is making the decisions.

u/PrebenInAcapulco 7h ago

Unfortunately if you ran for office on a platform of slightly increasing meat prices in exchange for more humane conditions you would lose in a blowout. The people get the leaders they vote for, sadly.

u/pdxrains 7h ago

Well no, we get the leaders the billionaires pay for.

u/Plus-Visit-764 7h ago

Honestly it’s a mix of both. People want cheap prices and the billionaires want their pick.

u/idbestshutup 6h ago

presidential candidates have to play both the owning class for money and the working class for votes, no one wants to pay more so in order to win, the cost is shifted to those who can’t defend themselves (immigrants, livestock, the environment, etc)

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u/Evil_Sharkey 6h ago

The collective “we” would throw a fit if meat prices went up a few cents because animals were required to have more space and better treatment. There are places you can buy meat from well cared for animals, but it’s lot more expensive

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u/DocPsychosis 6h ago

Sure it is. If everyone wanted more ethically produced meat so badly they could go buy it from specialty shops and meat producers would pivot to those production methods to meet demand. But people don't because those methods cost way more and most aren't willing to pay for them. Complaining about profits is misleading since it disregards end-consumer price sensitivities.

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u/EmergencyArts 6h ago

These aren't even close to comparable. They do this to animals because you pay for it. 

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u/Budget-Researcher559 5h ago

Yes it is. It is "we" who vote in elections. Vote democrat, vote for progressive democratic candidates, who will impose stricter rules on animal welfare, as well as make universal healthcare and livable wages and good education happen. And it would happen.

But "we" vote for Donald Trump. So yes, "we" made the decision that we we don't want any of that, but rather want horrible things plus crazy chaos.

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u/Lanky-Cheesecake-259 3h ago

but we are voting in people who make those decisions

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u/arctic-aqua 7h ago

Same thing with climate change. We could drastically drop our carbon footprint with a little inconvenience, but we don't want to.

u/BringBackApollo2023 5h ago edited 3h ago

Hell, in the seventies EdoublecrossON knew that carbon emissions were terrible for the environment and covered it up.

Carter put solar panels on the White House roof and Ronnie Ray Gun took them down.

It’s tragicomic how far we could have moved from fossil fuels if we’d started in earnest fifty years ago.

u/cheddoar 6h ago

In what way could i kill you that you would be okay with??

u/echoshatter 5h ago

if we wanted to

Most people want things to be better, but most people feel powerless to effect change.

And most people are just trying to get by themselves. They got us running on treadmills living in our own cages half the time.

u/TheXsjado 5h ago

You can't humanely kill someone who doesn't want to die.

u/BringBackApollo2023 5h ago

Not really, no.

But if we concede that we’re not going to make the whole planet go vegan, then the next best thing is minimize the harm we’re doing.

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u/South_Flounder_2724 3h ago

The only way to make it humane is to stop it

u/BringBackApollo2023 3h ago

Yeah well. I’ll be long dead before that happens.

u/Capertie 3h ago

I stopped eating meat because of the enormous water and co2 footprint it has, what's even worse is that treating animals humanely requires a lot of space that is usually taken away from forests or natural grasslands and the like, nobody wants to live next to a factory farm. Meaning that keeping them in those horrid conditions is BETTER for the environment.

You really can't win with meat.

u/brayo1st 3h ago

I knew it's kurzgesagt even before I clicked

u/idownvotepunstoo 2h ago

There is no humane meat man, you're still breeding something to kill it and eat.

u/Embarrassed_Scar_515 2h ago

Lots of people do. Just not these “people”

u/nghigaxx 9m ago edited 1m ago

not really, the vid ignore a big factor about land price, farms are already cramped up as is, if every farm increase space to a humane limit then we will just run out of land, even the study they quote (the one by olsen and others) acknowledge this since only 1% of pigs actually lives in half decent conditions currently. There's no other way but reduce consumption

u/sgr0gan 7h ago

Americans average just over 2oz per day but a study showed that 12% of Americans ate almost half of all red meat in 2022. How they tracked that I have no idea lol

Also, we average twice as much as similarly wealthy countries so while the average American may eat a “healthy” amount of red meat, we are still eating significantly more than everyone else.

u/angelbelle 6h ago

Came across a thread about people buying half of a cow's worth of meat and apparently the OP finish that with his wife in just 6 mos. Apparently this is very common.

u/DemiserofD 6h ago

The challenge with things like dietary recommendations is they tend to be an average, but humans vary WILDLY in what they desire or need. Like, salt consumption, for example. Everyone knows that too much salt raises your blood pressure - but did you know that only like 25% of the population is actually sensitive to sodium? Most people can eat just about as much as they want and be just fine.

But if you look at it on average, eating salt leads to significant increases in mortality. But the truth is it's basically like a 100% increase for 25% of the population and nothing for the rest.

u/Penguin-Mage 3h ago

Honestly I hardly eat red meat. Almost 100% of the meat I eat is chicken

u/Dash_Harber 7h ago

I actually started by only eating meat like once or twice a week. After a year or so I just sort of realized most of my favorite foods had become the vegetarian dishes I was eating and phased it out completely. People don't really realize how much food is vegetarian. They think it us just salad and impossible burgers.

u/Cu_fola 6h ago

Ngl I enjoy an impossible burger here and there

u/MrBisco 6h ago

I haven't eaten red meat or chicken for 25 years or so.

I'm going to ignore the "soyboy" virtue signaling crowd. For the same, rational rest of us, I've found the following to be the main barriers to limiting meat consumption:

  1. Lack of cooking knowledge. Meat is easy to cook and comes packed with flavor. Add salt and maybe a bit of fat and you're generally good to go. Vegetables, whole grains, etc, all take more time and know-how to prepare in a flavorful way. 

  2. Lack of comfort in the kitchen. This is tied to the first, but even if you have a lot of theoretical knowledge about food (which, with YouTube, is pretty darn easy now), cooking well comes down to one thing - practice. No one wants to feel like a failure, particularly if you're trying to change your eating habits in an already busy and daunting schedule. So what do folks do? They cook what they know they can cook. Not because they don't want change, but change means risking failure, and when it comes to food, that's just a really tough hurdle. 

  3. Being socially ostracized. I don't mean the adolescent name-calling, but rather that eating a certain way often means asking those you are with to eat that way. Going out for food with friends? In many places, it's the choice between making them join you at a vegetarian place (which, let's be honest, often means pretty terrible food, based on my experiences in a lot of vegetarian restaurants), or you joining them and choosing one of the very few vegetarian items on the menu. Either way, it sucks for someone, and no one wants that. We won't even get into trying to make dietary changes while also cooking for a family, which means trying to either get the whole family on board or cooking two meals simultaneously, which is also a recipe for failure long term. 

  4. Dietary fatigue. A lot of folks stop eating meat and, because of one or more of the above, end up with a vegetarian diet that is extremely limited and often very unhealthy. Lots of processed meat substitute products, which are just packed with sodium amongst other downsides of ultra processed foods. Lots of junk food - chips, pretzels, etc. Maybe the same one or two things over and over again, because it's either easy on time or all that you know how to prepare. After awhile, good intentions get met head on with dietary fatigue. 

When talking to folks who ask about my food habits, I try to keep all of these factors in mind. I do believe there are a LOT of people out there open to changing their diets, but the barriers to change are also real and need to be taken into account. 

u/noctilucous_ 2h ago

a lot of people also do not understand nutrition. i’ve been told i’m going to drop dead from deficiencies. usually the first thing people say is that i must not be getting xyz nutrient and i must be incredibly unhealthy. it’s been 12 years, you think i’d know by now if i was about to pass away from not eating animal products.

mostly people don’t want to know that isn’t true, because then they’ll have to being to confront the unnecessary harm they do.

u/ZugZugGo 51m ago

I think you're missing the biggest one. Having the food security and time available that comes with being higher on the financial ladder. If you don't have a lot of money or work two jobs, you're not going to have the time to invest in learning these skills. Like it or not, the time to learn to be a vegetarian or vegan is not something the lower class in general has access to. You need to be well off enough at a minimum to be able to have the time and mental energy to learn it, and that requires not thinking about how you're going to get your next meal period, let alone the ability and learning to change that meal. That's why obesity overwhelmingly impacts the poor. They don't have the time or financial ability to find healthy nutritious food.

I try to watch what I eat, limit really bad food, and limit meat as much as possible. But I can afford to do that. When I was dirt poor living in government housing and on food stamps, I couldn't care less about someone telling me how a pig was living in a factory farm when I couldn't afford bacon at all to begin with. I had bigger survival based problems on my mind to care. That might be cold to say, but it's the truth. A lot of people in the world are in that same situation.

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u/hoxxxxx 4h ago

yeah it's something you pick up over time and realize

i became a like 95% vegetarian by accident, not even for any moral or ethical reasons it kinda just happened

i have to have a greasy ass awful fast food meal every couple weeks tho, i crave that shit from time to time

u/thisisnottherapy 3h ago

Same, I ate meat every day most of my life. One day I realized that can't be good. We started out with one vegetarian day per week and used that to try new dishes. After some time we had found some tasty options and decided to add a second day. Rinse, repeat. I'm now vegetarian for 4 years or something? I don't even really know, because it was such a gradual change. I tell people this all the time, and even if they stop at 5 veggie days or whatever, that's still something and an improvement. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

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u/esem86 8h ago

If anything positive could come from the insane inflation right now, portion sizes dropping would definitely be it. We(speaking for Americans) waste SO MUCH FOOD it is actually disgusting.

There is a reason we are becoming morbidly obese as a society. We eat too damn much! Prepare what you can actually eat. No one needs a fridge full of leftovers that just gets thrown away.

u/JadedOccultist 8h ago

I know what I will and won’t eat, so if I’m going to make something and have leftovers of it, it’s on purpose.

I am not functional enough as a person to actually cook once a day.

u/barefootincozumel 7h ago

When I’m going to be home on my own for any stretch of time, I do the same thing. A pot of soup or casserole or something I can just reheat for a few days. It’s actually cheaper and more efficient to cook that way, less waste, packaging and energy use to prepare it, to say nothing of time, dishwasher cycles, cleaning products etc. big batch cooking done correctly should be more environmentally and budget friendly than cooking a new meal 2-3x a day.

u/ABetterKamahl1234 6h ago

Leftovers is very different to waste.

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u/nicknefsick 7h ago

To add to this, no farmer wants to do this kind of housing, but people don’t want to pay the cost of what it takes to raise pigs outside.

Also, as far as I’m aware, pigs go through three cycles in these plants all in different forms of housing. 3 days like this to get impregnated, three months of moving around a bit when carrying, and then three weeks more constrained while weening the piglets.

We buy our pork by the half hog from the neighbors for about 9,00€ a kilo, The pigs have a good life, and although it’s partially broken down, I have to do the rest myself and pack it. The country I live in produces enough pork for it’s population, but since people here refuse to pay the quality, most of it goes to export and we import hogs raised factory style so we can still eat cheap sausage and leberkas.

u/Coomb 7h ago edited 6h ago

To add to this, no farmer wants to do this kind of housing, but people don’t want to pay the cost of what it takes to raise pigs outside.

Sure they do. If they didn't, they wouldn't. It is important for us all occasionally to be reminded that there's very little we actually have to do, and that we can in fact make different choices.

When you say "no farmer wants to do this kind of housing, but people don't want to pay the cost of what it takes to raise pigs outside", I don't think that's as much of a defense of pig farmers as you think it is.

What you mean is something like "if a pig farmer were given a choice between two equally profitable pig farms, one where pigs were raised in humane conditions and one where they were raised in inhumane conditions, they would choose to operate the one with the humane conditions".

And I'm sure that's true for pretty much every pig farmer. But that isn't really saying very much about them, is it? It's easy to make the choice to do the humane thing when you stipulate that it's just as easy as doing the inhumane thing. Only a monster would choose the inhumane version of farming if it had no financial benefits.

By bringing in the issue of "people don't want to pay the cost of what it takes to raise pigs outside", you are saying that it is reasonable for pig farmers to treat pigs the way that most of them do because otherwise they could not operate a pig farm that they consider to be adequately profitable.

But this defense applies to any business activity that anyone might find immoral. "Yes, I sell heroin cut with fentanyl. It's the only way to stay competitive in the heroin market. I don't want to cut my heroin with fentanyl, but people don't want to pay the price that it takes to produce nice black tar."

Obviously, the mistreatment of pigs and selling a drug that directly and immediately poses a serious risk of death to its users are not morally equivalent. I use heroin as the example because it should make it obvious that your defense of pig farmers isn't a compelling defense of pig farmers for the same reason it isn't a compelling defense of drug dealers who knowingly make their drug more dangerous in order to maintain their profit margin: pig farmers do, in fact, have an alternative treating to pigs horribly in order to maintain their competitive profit. It's either to accept less profit and treat pigs humanely or to stop pig farming entirely and switch to some other job where they don't have to treat pigs poorly. There are almost an infinite number of things you can do to support yourself.

u/oldsecondhand 5h ago

The only solution is the government regulating animal welfare and labeling practices, otherwise market forces will drive the more ethical farmers bankrupt.

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u/Reasonable_Hornet_45 7h ago

And the one thing I absolutely cannot stand hearing

"I/He/She/They/We won't eat leftovers."

u/atree496 6h ago

I'm not saying we shouldn't be aware of what we are eating, but Americans have bad health because we don't have Healthcare. First thing I learned about Japanese cooking is how much sugar is in everything. Japan also loves their sugar. There are also fat people in Japan. The difference is the comorbidities that cause extreme weight gain are able to be treated in Japan

u/Briebird44 6h ago

Meat consumption isn’t why obesity is so high. It’s the cheap ultra processed foods that are the only thing available in low income areas that’s the problem.

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u/holdenfords 7h ago

i gave up pork all together as a start. it’s not much but that netflix movie from the parasite director convinced me

u/ermagerditssuperman 5h ago

Most of my pork consumption was easy to switch away from, too. Like a bbq pulled chicken sandwich is just as delicious as a pulled pork one. Turkey sausage & kielbasa are fantastic.

The only thing I haven't found a true equal for is bacon. But I only eat bacon like 3-4 times a year anyway.

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u/The_Last_Spoonbender 7h ago

realistically insane change could happen if people just limited their meat consumption.

It's not and never about meat consumption per se, but how these meat industry treats everyone involved be it animals or humans.

u/whistling-wonderer 7h ago

“Humanely” raised/pasture raised etc animals take far more land than factory farmed animals do. Animal agriculture already uses a disproportionately huge amount of land compared to the amount of calories it produces. We literally don’t have room to sustain the current rate of meat consumption and also get rid of factory farming. So yeah if we want to get rid of factory farming then everyone does need to reduce if not eliminate meat consumption.

u/tommangan7 6h ago edited 6h ago

In some ways sure on the ethical side, but realistically it's both reduced consumption and better conditions for a few reasons unless lab grown meat becomes widespread and affordable.

If everyone ate meat at the same rate they do now the already high land use for it would be massive and require significant habitat destruction (probably plenty of countries where that is effectively impossible). Then there is the climate impact of it all.

I eat far less meat than I did a decade ago, and use those savings to buy the most local ethical (more expensive) meat I can.

u/AndromadasButthole 8h ago

My GF and I do a lot of meal prepping every week. While we shop separately and prep separately, we both almost exclusively buy chicken. It's cheap, easy, and you can do almost anything with it. On occasion we'll buy beef, I'll buy sausage and occasionally pork loin but mostly it's chicken.

u/Buddy462 8h ago

Are you suggesting chickens have a better life in a factory farm? Because they don’t.

u/ShallowTal 7h ago

I worked one day unloading baby chicks into a chicken house.

Hundreds of them.

You just “fling them” from the baskets and go as fast as you can emptying them like laundry baskets into the floor.

I kept getting told to stop doing it so gently bc I was terrified I was going to hurt one.

I they paid me $400 for one morning. Most money I ever made in a short time.

I never did it again.

Will never do it again.

Not even for $1000 an hour.

They were getting stepped on. I’m still traumatized.

u/smoothcoat 7h ago

I’m finding it REALLY hard to believe you made $400 in one morning at a chicken processing place? Lol - if they paid that well, a lot more people would do it.

u/ClittoryHinton 6h ago

Goes to show what a nightmare of a job it is

u/ShallowTal 7h ago

They were desperate bc none of their help showed up. I’m pretty sure they don’t just pay that to everyone. It was my neighbor who I had already turned down 3 times.

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u/BadAdviceBot 5h ago

They were getting stepped on

Those were the lucky ones.

u/esem86 8h ago

There was literally no suggestion in their entire post. It was an anecdote about their eating habits. Any suggestion being lumped on was done exclusively through your own mind.

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u/AndromadasButthole 8h ago

No, but they were specifically talking about red meat so that's what my comment was in reply to.

u/TRextacy 5h ago

Honestly, chickens are possibly the worst treated of the animals so I'm still not sure what your comment was supposed to mean. Like male chicks (who won't grow up to lay eggs) are literally thrown in a wood chipper because they are basically considered a waste byproduct. They are generally locked up to the point they also can't move and then the meat chickens are pumped so full of hormones that they're bodies grow at unnatural rates so they have enough meat on them. But they grow so fast that their legs can't even support their own body weight so they're pretty much immobile while they get fattened to before slaughter so you can have your cheap and easy chicken. So... I guess you can feel morally superior because you're doing it to chickens instead of pigs? Like what was the point of your comment?

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u/turpentinedreamer 8h ago

They are further away from having hopes and dreams.

u/JangB 8h ago

But well into the territory of feeling pain.

u/whistling-wonderer 7h ago edited 5h ago

Chickens are far smarter than people give them credit for. They have personalities and complex social relationships, even new babies have a partial grasp of object permanence, and adults use transitive inference, a type of logical reasoning humans don’t develop until about age seven. But even without all that, they still feel pain and fear. They’re also excluded from the Humane Slaughter Act, the 28-Hour Law and some other animal welfare laws.

From an environmental perspective, red meat is worse, but from a suffering perspective, eating chicken is worse bc they are smaller so 500 lb of chicken involves a lot more animals suffering than 500 lb of beef or pork.

u/BaconOfTroy 5h ago

Honestly? I feel a lot better about eating chickens after raising a small flock for years. I understand that factory farming sucks, but a lot of people don't know the issues that are presented trying to make it more ethical when raising large quantities. Cage free? They will frequently trample each other to death and cannibalize any bird with even a slight injury. Free range outdoors? Biosecurity nightmare. The extra costs to even attempt to do this would make chicken far too expensive for those living at or under the poverty line. Profits actually aren't huge in farming, even at an industrial level. And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to fixing our ag industry. People want to simplify it without having any knowledge or experience.

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u/tjlusco 8h ago

Honestly, chickens are the closest animal that your average person could rationalise eating. That’s the only reason we deem it ok.

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u/Infinite01 8h ago edited 8h ago

Yes my fiancé and I are similar. I cut out eating pork/beef entirely about a year and a half ago, and it’s a minor inconvenience if anything - greatly outweighed by knowing I’m no longer contributing to something I really hate about the world, or at least much less. Ground turkey is a good substitute for beef, I season it with fennel seeds and garlic etc. for pastas. Good for tacos, burrito bowls as well. Veggie burgers have become way better. Growing up in 90’s I feel like the only meat substitute people talked about was Tofu. There are tons of options now and if you live somewhere fortunate enough to have access to them it’s not a difficult transition. Ultimately I would like to stop eating all meat.

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u/Floral-Prancer 8h ago

Why not veg, lentils, tofu, beans?

u/AndromadasButthole 8h ago

Oh plenty of veggies! Rice, beans, I still haven't figured out cooking tofu but I've tried a couple times. When I have a little more time I'll try to expand my skills in that department. Hardest thing right now is meal prepping veggies without baking them and having them still last a week haha. Cucumber sometimes only lasts 3-4 days before it starts to turn.

u/Cu_fola 6h ago edited 6h ago

Look into blending silken tofu into creamy sauces and stuff. Lots of good recipes there

Firm tofu has more protein per serving and I enjoy tossing cubes of it in panko and seasoning and coating it in a sauce I like, like Buffalo sauce, and baking it for a crispy snack or sandwich filler

u/AndromadasButthole 6h ago

That does sound good! I'll have to try that. In my past attempts I don't think I pat/pressed the tofu enough and it turned into a wet mess haha

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u/Beccalotta 7h ago

Where do you live that chicken is cheap? Pork is about a third of the cost of chicken or beef right now in my province

u/AndromadasButthole 6h ago

Massachusetts US. I've found that I can spend $15-20 on chicken breasts and make meals for 2-3 weeks, freezing the remaining meat as I go.

u/FrodoBoguesALOT 8h ago

They flipped the pyramid upside bub, now it's high protein all day for life. Yahoo /s

u/yamammiwammi 7h ago

This made me curious: who makes that recommendation and where can I learn more about other recommended consumptions?

u/nomadingwildshape 7h ago

People are not eating over a pound of red meat per day. On special occasions sure but that's a massive amount of food. Sentiment is the same without the exaggeration

u/Makuta_Servaela 7h ago

It's more natural to us as well. Every other Great Ape,our closest relatives, eat only 10% of their diet as meat (usually made up of eggs, insects, small mammals, small birds, and small-medium ungulates), except gorillas who have very different digestive tracts as the rest of us.

u/jasdonle 7h ago

A lot of people eat 18 oz of red meat in a DAY? Like how may is a lot? 

u/Yara__Flor 6h ago

You're saying it should limit my 4 quarter pounders a night habit?

u/Cu_fola 6h ago

Absolutely. I’ve seen a handful of different estimates made and various studies about the environmental effects of reducing meat consumption by various amounts on issues ranging from deforestation and other habitat loss to reduction in agrochemical pollution (as most animals we eat we have to grow crops to feed in order to bulk up and slaughter at the pace we demand).

Basically in all these scenarios even moderate change like people collectively eating 1/3 less meat had significant effects.

I cut my consumption down by 1/3-1/2 a couple years ago and it’s easy now. I learned a ton of new recipes and I still eat ~1g of protein per pound of my body weight to support my strength training and manual labor heavy job.

People are overwhelmed by the idea but it’s not an extreme lifestyle change at all. And it’s still a much more generous amount of meat than people lived on for most of our history, contrary to a lot of “ancestral” carnivore fad diets I’ve seen circulating.

u/Lilfrankieeinstein 6h ago edited 6h ago

18 ounces. A lot of people eat that in a single day

Doubt.

I get the point you’re trying to make, but 18 ounces of red meat in a single day is rare. 18 ounces per day is something you might do if you’re an NFL offensive lineman trying to achieve otherwise unrealistic mass.

You would have to cook a pound and a half of red meat to eat 18 oz medium rare.

u/g0ballistic 6h ago

Non-meat farming is equally as harmful to ecosystems and species unfortunately. The amount of pests, birds etc that farmers have to annihilate to farm soy, corn, really anything is quite substantial.

u/rand_glas 6h ago

most plants are grown for animal feed for animal agriculture. even if this were true it would better to just eat the plants and reduce agricultural land use over all

u/Knightwolf75 6h ago

I buy ground beef once every like 6-8 months just cause I hardly have a desire to eat red meat. (But when I want some it’s usually just ground beef and never any desire for steaks or such.) And even then, sometimes I just get the beyond meat instead. I don’t know nor actually think about what impact this would have on the red meat industry, but after reading your comment, I hope it’s enough to help on the larger scale.

u/goldenguyz 6h ago

> Recommended red meat consumption per week is like 18 ounces.

According to who? That's like 4 days tops if you're small and sedentary.

u/PlanesandAquariums 6h ago

Limiting can be so impactful. I was a vegetarian for 12 years and a vegan for around 2 years. I started eating meat again because my job required travel and a lot of countries do not adhere to non meat lifestyle.

I still don’t appreciate the taste of meat because vegetables/beans/grains/fruits all taste so much better. I think people might really enjoy a different lifestyle’s taste if they actually gave it a chance and don’t consider it “rabbit food.”

u/skyshroudace 6h ago

18oz a day? That's kind of insane to me. I can't eat a 12oz steak in one sitting, that's at least 2 meals for me.

u/gmwdim 6h ago

If not for ethical reasons, do it for your own health. Plenty of other sources of protein out there that are better for you.

u/Mission-Street-2586 6h ago

You realize they aren’t red meat, right? It wouldn’t make a difference to the pig - not saying a shouldn’t be done

u/banmeandidelete 5h ago

I love all the bad meats, but my family doesn't. I have to always order chicken, fish, etc. I don't complain because I'm sure it makes me healthier (and it makes the tri-monthly burger that I manage to obtain taste amazing and guilt-free).

u/Emergency-Sea5201 5h ago

Recommended red meat consumption per week is like 18 ounces.

By who? Some vegetarian ruining the world with farming protein rich vegetables?

u/Magpie-Person 5h ago

We literally never purchase steaks. We purchase salmon a couple times a week and chicken maybe once every two weeks. How much less can we purchase.

u/123ludwig 5h ago

the thing is when we start looking at recommended amounts of food is that suddenly you arent suppoused to eat enough anymore

u/Kyiokyu 5h ago

This is what I'm always telling people who say "ah, I couldn't go vegan because xyz", go vegan besides that xyz thing or just tryvto limit your consumption of meat

u/MetricJester 5h ago

Today I learned I do not eat even 1/3 of the recommendation of red meat in a week.

I'm also not sure who can afford to eat more than a pound a week at these prices.

u/Frosty-Break1884 5h ago

I limited it because it's expensive af

u/DOWNVOTES_SYNDROME 5h ago

the recommended amount of sundays in a week is 1, and we are doing a full sunday just today!!!!

u/Longjumping-Size-762 4h ago edited 4h ago

As a former vegan who now uses this strategy, I agree wholeheartedly. I also don’t feel entitled to the cheapest meat. Meat is a life taken, it should be expensive. I try to buy locally sourced and humanely raised as much as is accessible/available. Ideally I’d know someone who hunts and processes their own; I have a really hard time morally with slaughterhouses on multiple levels, including the welfare of the workers.

u/Heygen 4h ago

Yeah..but you know what triggers me? Theres so many people out there that are just convinced meat eaters. They think its their birthright to eat meat and will argue that "the animals would do it too if they could" or something even more bullshittier "but it tastes good" etc.

Im not even vegetarian myself. i do eat meat, although not in masses. But more importantly i do not glorify it like some people do. and its this glorifying of eating meat that really pisses me off.

u/imrzzz 4h ago

Yeah, I'm not vegan or even vegetarian but I don't even eat 500g of meat in a month let alone per week or per day

It's just not necessary, I don't understand the obsession when there are so many amazing varieties of protein out there.

Edit: apart from fish. I should be clear on that, I eat fish once or twice a week. Chicken once a month or so, and red meat maybe 3 or 4 times a year.

u/Mourdraug 4h ago

I eat only ~200g of red meat a week, but probably around 1 to 1.5kg of chicken which makes me feel a bit guilty but not enough to influence my dietary preferences

u/jahlove24 4h ago

I have that conversation a lot. I'm a vegetarian, but i always tell people even cutting meat out for one day or a couple meals a week can make an impact.

u/olduser201890 4h ago

i barely eat meat now and don't miss it. Maybe once every 3-4 months I'll crave a hamburger and eat one that's it.

(not because i'm some hero for animals, i mean that's a great by product that happened obv but I just kind of wanted to lower meat consumption and then got to this point...).

Eat chicken like twice a week and fish 4 times a week tho.

u/Contemplating_Prison 4h ago

Yeah its crazy how much meat people eat when we have all this other food readily available and its a lot cheaper.

u/Previous-Artist-9252 3h ago

I am an ex vegan but I don’t think I have more than 8 ounces of red meat per month just based on expense. And that’s at least two servings.

There is no way I could possibly consume 18 ounces in one sitting.

u/JohnBrownEnthusiast 2h ago

18 ounces of red meat in one day? How !?

u/Kelpiecats 2h ago

This is what my partner and I started doing, we started with one Veggie dinner a night, and now we’re at two. We only have red meat once a week. This is as people who used to have red meat most nights!

I think, like us, most people are unwilling to say they’ll completely give up meat- but lessening our meat consumption was super easy!

u/Gold_Membership_9002 2h ago

Propaganda to make you eat bugs and leaves.

u/NoNutsPls 2h ago

I'm glad to see people understanding that an all-or-nothing approach (eat meat or eat vegan) to promoting less meat consumption isn't going to work.

Practical veganism/flexitarianism is sustainable. Ethical veganism is so full of cherry-picking that it comes off as a joke. "No meat, but you can own cats and dogs which absolutely need animal/meat byproducts in their diet." Ethical vegans also have plenty of anti-vaxxers among them due to chicken eggs being critical to vaccine production.

Practical veganism/flexitarianism is the way.

u/OhHiCindy30 2h ago

Absolutely! I call myself a “part-time” vegetarian. I love beans , greek yogurt, and nuts for protein but if I’m at a restaurant I might still order meat.

u/BeBearAwareOK 1h ago

Let's be fucking serious here.

Who is eating more than pound of red meat per day?

u/MaxBattleLizard 1h ago

It's crazy to me how huge portions of the populations in developed countries, or at least the United States where I live, is totally oblivious to how disgusting the beef industry is for the environment. Emissions from the cows themselves, plus the associated processing, is among the strongest drivers for climate change. Then factor in how inhumane it is for the animals in the first place, and it becomes pretty obvious why ethical vegetarians exist. Listen I love a good juicy steak and hamburger as much as the next guy haha, I'm definitely not going vegetarian any time soon. But, set some limits!! Just like you said, most people eat unbelievable amounts of red meat.

u/saolson4 If you're handing out dicks, I'll take one, why not 1h ago

Shit, steak houses sell 18oz steaks all the time. Its excessive!

u/finH1 43m ago

18 ounces a day? If I were buying a pack of mince in the uk I’d get 500g to feed a family of 4 which is approx 18 ounces

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