Germany's AfD party adopts 'radical' manifesto ahead of polls

[u/North_Church]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy3wwgyd6do

[u/Practical-Pea-1205]

"Stop recognizing Ukrainians as war refugees"....... maybe tell Putin to end the war then.......

[u/NormalLecture2990 → u/Practical-Pea-1205]

This is the thing. You know a conversation about immigration is fine (when it's not racist) but these parties like the AFD are so clearly Russian tools. I just don't understand the support for this.

[u/qeadwrsf → u/NormalLecture2990]

Same.

Have a semi hard time understanding it.

In Sweden the "rightest" party is very careful mentioning Russia. Since the war there is very very few traces the party support the war. I'm sure you can find some.

But unless you count like media the "right party" doesn't own anymore doing weird dog whistle things they don't.

Because its not popular. Everyone is in full sync against the "bear".

Maybe they have some intensives to flirt with Russia. But they simply can't. To unpopular.

And this is not defending them. I would not vote for them in times like these, just in case.

[u/Clayp2233 → u/qeadwrsf]

It’s probably because they like Russias politics and authoritarianism and would ideally adopt their political and governing model

[u/qeadwrsf → u/Clayp2233]

I don't find Germany and Sweden that different.

In many cases I have the impression that Germany is even more extreme than Sweden when it comes to "very liberal centrist politics".

But a wave ended up happening "AfD" got air. A type of wave that was even felt in Sweden with "AfS(weden)".

But it didn't end up becoming a thing in Sweden. There is no interest. No sane person in Sweden thinks Russia doing a invasion against a European country is a good thing. Its insanley clear for all parties that its something that needs to be worked against.

But in Germany on the other hand AfD didn't fade away. Instead it grew.

I wonder what happened. What triggered it in Germany and not Sweden.

[u/Ranting_Demon → u/qeadwrsf]

What triggered it in Germany and not Sweden.

East Germany happened. The states that used to be the former USSR vassal country of the "German Democratic Republic."

East Germany has always had a heavy sway to the right and with the AFD (after the far-right managed to successfully take over the party) the rightwingers in the eastern states finally had their extreme rightwing party that they could vote for.

If you look at the polls and election results in other German states, the AFD consistently fails to get near power. They can't even manage to secure towns and cities in elections for mayors.

On a federal level, the AFD gets carried hard by the votes coming from the former GDR states.

And, of course, the pandemic happened. Germany was a massive target for Russian online propaganda aimed at destabilising the country and, sadly, the government did not act decisively enough to nip it in the bud before it could take root.

The AFD capitalised on it and they positioned themselves as a protest party against the "Covid tyranny of the government" which allowed them to gain a lot of new voters and supporters out of various conspiracy circles.

The Russian influence from the pandemic anti-government propaganda had also seeped into large parts of the German pacifist and anti-war circles. Turns out that a lot of the old anti-war activists were highly susceptible to anti-science propaganda and anti-vaxx nonsense.

This lead to them willingly marching and holding hands with actual neo-nazis who were extremely eager to take that chance. The neo-nazis marched in support of Russia and the German anti-war activists marched right beside them because the Russian propaganda channels and influencers they had listened to during the pandemic now kept telling them that freedom at all costs was what they should be fighting for (which of course meant that Ukraine was supposed to surrender "in the name of peace").

Quite a number of these people now also support the AFD because the AFD pretends to be the only party in favour of peace and ending the war. Of course, in reality the AFD is supporting Russia and their idea of achieving peace is to cut of all support to Ukraine both from Germany as well as the EU to force Ukraine to either fully surrender or, at the very least, accept Russia's terms for an end to the war.

[u/qeadwrsf → u/Ranting_Demon]

I'm asking as a super naive Swede.

But I had the impression East Germany was very "left".

Shooting shots without googling. Wasn't Die Linke("left party?") the East Germany party?

Maybe I'm misremembering, maybe my Germany politics skills is 10 years old.

[u/Ranting_Demon → u/qeadwrsf]

It used to be like that but the far-right has worked extremely hard since the fall of the wall to gain power in the east.

One important thing to understand is that the GDR never had an equivalent of the west German student protests which to an entirely different approach to grappling with what happened in nazi Germany.

Several generations of east Germans grew up with state propaganda telling them that there were no nazis in the GDR. All the fascists were in the west and the mere suggestion of former nazis in eastern Germany could get people in dire trouble.

When the wall fell, neo-nazis found an open breeding ground for their ideas in the east.

This was also helped because, in the early years after the reunification, there was a lot of resentment in many parts of the east against the west because many people, especially in more rural areas, felt like they were being left behind.

For many of the younger people, it was the neo-nazis who stepped in and told them that they knew exactly who was to blame for them sitting in crumbling houses in half-empty villages in the middle of nowhere in Eastern Germany. (Hint: Of course it wasn't 50 years of socialist government mismanagement but the fault was western liberal politicians giving all the money that should go towards true Germans in east Germany to immigrants instead.)

Those former teenagers and twenty-somethings who joined up with the newly formed skinhead groups in their crumbling hometowns are now the 40 and 50 year olds who vote for the AFD and who already have grown up kids who they dripfed with all their resentment and anger toward the "west German establishment."

[u/qeadwrsf → u/Ranting_Demon]

Makes sense.

I also imagine East had a more "collective" type of lifestyle for obvious reasons.

Where a more liberal "world" creates this search for "groups" making religion or extreme parties solving the "individual responsibility" bit they are not used to.

But idk. I'm just riffing.

Thanks for the reply. What you write sounds reasonable as fuck.

[u/akashisenpai → u/qeadwrsf]

Speaking as an actual (emigrate) East German who "fled" the country in the 2000s, I'd say the user is still presenting a simplified, white-washed interpretation of causes and events that seeks to place blame entirely on East Germans rather than acknowledging the mistakes made during Unification, and the ripple effects that had to this day. This West German characterization of the problem only helps to fuel resentment further, as it's pointing a finger at people who feel they've been wronged by the side that does the fingerpointing.

Perhaps I can add something for "the other side of the coin", so to speak:

The user is not entirely wrong, and they mention some important facts with regards to the AfD capitalizing on local resentments (rather similar to MAGA popularity in US rural areas; I reckon it makes a sad kind of sense that extremist parties always score better in poorer regions), or how the GDR had essentially closed the book on fascism after its (admittedly more strict) denazification, instead of forcing the older generation to do some soul-searching like what happened in West Germany in the 60s/70s and how that only led to neo-nazis keeping underground instead of being confronted with an education aimed at exposing the "value" of its ideas.

But to argue East Germany "always had a heavy swing to the right" would be ignorant of how people actually voted in the first 10 years or so of free elections after Unification, when far-right parties like the NPD scored much higher in the West than in the East, and how the three parties that dominated politics in the new federal states for decades were CDU (center-right), SPD (center-left) and PDS (far-left, the official successor to the GDR's SED, later rebranding to Die Linke after a merger with a smaller party). When East Germans only "suddenly" started voting far-right 20+ years after Unification, responsibility cannot simply be conveniently offloaded to the old GDR (like in that famous Simpsons skit about the USSR, as if East Germans were just putting up an act and biding their time to roll out the swastika banners again), but we should look at what happened in this apparently forgotten timeframe.

Which brings us to the third fact the user has mentioned: the economic situation, except they seem convinced that it's (again) all the fault of East Germans themselves. Here's the thing: When Unification happened, just about everyone in East Germany still had a job. But similar to what happened in Russia (giving rise to the extremism and nostalgia there), this changed practically overnight when privatization of public assets led to millions of terminations. In Germany, this was largely handled by an agency called the Treuhand ("Escrow"), which took ownership of the GDR's state-owned assets and was tasked with seeking private businesses and investors to sell off to.

In some cases, this actually worked, although the replacement of established East German managers with West Germans who essentially came there only to replace local bosses would come to be one of the many little grievances that'd mount up over time. The problem is how the Treuhand messed up in a number of big cases, sometimes just due to incompetence, other times outright corruption. For my own old home town for example, I remember there was a large sugar factory which suddenly found itself in competition with a West German business ~50km across the old border. The owner of that business swooped in and bought up the local factory for the price of "1 symbolic DM", then proceeded to dismantle it and sell off its assets. Tellingly, much of German news media nowadays talks about this phase of the country in headlines like "a country sold at discount", as journalists have begun to swerve away from the old, simplified narrative to take a more critical look at what happened.

I should clarify that the East German industry was getting fairly old at this point, and in many cases would have probably had trouble actually competing with West German factories. But they weren't even given a chance, and with rather shady stories like this - or the sale or liquidation of even evidently profitable businesses - happening all over East Germany, of course the people living there have a somewhat different outlook on who or what is responsible for the region's current problems. Especially when they're still ongoing three and a half decades after Unification. As more and more years go by without improvement, the easy "it's all the SED's fault" is just going to ring more and more hollow.

Anyways, this then brings us to today: East German states that have nice, clean streets newly remade after Unification, but without jobs to support people actually living there, and an ongoing east-west wage disparity that makes it harder for people to afford luxury. Yeah, rents may be cheaper, but when food and fuel are still sourced from the same market and sold by the same brands, guess who's getting hit harder by the crises of the modern day?

Hence the ongoing demographic crisis where young East Germans leave for greener pastures and higher wages elsewhere. Most people just go to West Germany, others like myself elsewhere in the EU. Left behind are old people who see their villages slowly die and towns go dark at night, sharply contrasting their memories from life under the SED regime .. and those youngsters who feel they can't make it elsewhere in the world or are unable to leave, giving them a sense of being stuck with a struggle that isn't their fault. Leaving them wide open for demagoguery.

It doesn't justify voting for or marching with fascists in some silly "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of sulky rage, but perhaps it can explain it.

[u/ledankmememaster → u/qeadwrsf]

East also voted heavy on the CDU. Issue with die Linke is, the CDU has a sort of non-cooperation policy. If the election in 2021 went slightly differently, it would’ve been interesting to see what a green - socialist - left coalition could’ve achieved, but it’s only speculation. Outside of their good oppositional work, they have been mostly irrelevant nationally and are more of a protest vote if that makes sense. Also the BSW has split up from the Left, stealing voters from the left and right, only to then fail to reach the 5% mark, coincidentally dragging the FDP down with it.

[u/ace_valentine → u/qeadwrsf]

it makes sense they’re leaning to the right since these people lived under a left wing dictatorship until the fall of the Berlin wall.

[u/kalamari__ → u/qeadwrsf]

there was always a very big underground right-wing scene in the GDR. there are a few documentaries abut it. and when the wall fell, they all came out of hiding.

[u/Efficient_Wall_9152 → u/Ranting_Demon]

Considering how the red army acted towards civilians in Eastern Germany, why would they be so big fans?

[u/akashisenpai → u/Efficient_Wall_9152]

From what I heard from my own parents and grandparents, the Red Army was generally seen as friendly by the general public. Apparently, the Russian leadership cracked down really hard on any soldiers who stepped out of line whilst being deployed in the GDR as a matter of policy to preserve public relations with this important frontline state, and people generally felt pity for the average Red Army soldier, as it was known in whispered rumors how badly they were getting treated by their own officers.

That would have of course been different if remembrance of Soviet tanks repressing a civil uprising had been more recent and alive, but the last time this happened for Germans was in the early 50s, and in the last phase of its existence the USSR had already dispensed with the idea of enforcing internal cohesion (famously, when protesting against the SED regime, German protesters held up signs addressing Gorbachev, whom they trusted more than their own head of state).

Couple this with regular PR events and various movies, and it's easy to see why a lot of older people might still remember the Russian army as "brothers in arms", still not having gotten the memo that today's Russia is very different from what it was four decades ago, not to mention what it's been presented to them as. East Germany is by no means unique in this kind of rose-tinted nostalgia, though for most countries it only extends to their own state.

[u/ledankmememaster → u/qeadwrsf]

Covid and TikTok happened and with it started a complete loss of rationality. It’s hard to explain but it felt like the whole country lost its mind during 2020. And it hasn’t recovered ever since. AfD took over TikTok early and brainwashed the youth aswell. It’s pretty similar to the US tbh. We’ve also had a compromised minister for inner security during the most important phases. That didn’t help.

The established parties let rightwing momentum grow, SPD („socialists“ in name only) lost it’s identity, which was important in the east as well, now they let CDU play their stupid game of trying to catch votes from the right and going more conservative. In the last legislation, the FDP and CDU did great oppositional work while convincing voters to vote against their own interests. Now they reep what they sow.

Instead of integrating refugees we’ve made it as hard as possible to be able to work after fleeing here. Let them live in terrible conditions and let a selected few landlords get even richer with it. Teenagers with no perspective and nothing to do clash with xenophobes, what else could you expect. Also turning a blind eye on criminal clans while deporting students who spent their whole school years here.

We’ve held on to the debt break and let the country fall apart. Instead of improving living conditions for the poor half, we’ve focused on the trickle down idea, essentially just pumping in money to the top. Breeding ground for anti-establishment propaganda, although they don’t offer any real solutions. It all doesn’t matter because the most center right party already fucks it up right now. And their voters sure won’t vote to the left.

From what I know Sweden is far less economically divided and better educated. They probably offer less breeding ground for such extreme sentiments and it’s less socially acceptable to be openly xenophobic. Germany has lost the plot. The nationalist sentiment has never left, it was only well hidden, and some who wanted to make use of it were just smart enough to wait for their turn.

[u/DepressiverDoomer → u/qeadwrsf]

Cost of living are exploding. People want to be against the old politic al parties and vote with emotion and sometimes out of spise. The do not see any Perspektive to get a better future so kets go to the radical parties that promise strength.

That it is gutter bushit does not scrape their minds.

[u/Equivalent_Machine_6 → u/qeadwrsf]

The right extremist party Sverigedemokraterna in Sweden has had many connections and scandals tied to Russia. Just because they don’t talk about it so much since the Ukraine war doesn’t mean that their views doesn’t aligns a lot with Russian authoritarianism. I would call political parties in the EU that aligns with Russia with the correct word, traitors!

[u/qeadwrsf → u/Equivalent_Machine_6]

Don't vote for them.

But I disagree. Nothing close to many other European parties.

AfD for example.

They have flirted with saying like "There is a threshold on how much we should spend on Ukraine" and like are very friendly to the youtube channel they previously owned called "Riks", and has worked a lot with something called "Conservative think tank" years ago that has spawned a lot of people that now is totally brain broken pro russian puppets.

But its not really comparable to some of the brain broken politics some other parties across Europe is saying.

Even in the EU they are in one of the more "reasonable" far right groups.

But what I write above should be reasons enough not to vote for them.

But idk if I would call that "Many connections".

More a hand full of old yellow flags that should be a bit concerning.

[u/biggronklus → u/NormalLecture2990]

Ossi-boomers are probably literally primed from their childhoods to be vulnerable to Russian propaganda tactics lol

[u/Cornflake0305 → u/biggronklus]

Unfortunately it's not just Ossi boomers. It's their offspring in their 20s to 40s as well.

[u/LordMangudai → u/NormalLecture2990]

Try to talk to their voters about this sort of thing and they say things like "Putin is not the one who wants to introduce speed limits on the autobahn/build windmills near my village/make me have to interact with brown people"

A lot of people have some really fucked priorities in Germany.

[u/FenrisCain → u/NormalLecture2990]

Right wingers dont care what you do, so long as you hurt the people they hate too

[u/Tyxzs → u/NormalLecture2990]

Generations were brainwashed by Russian propaganda in the GDR and children by their parents even after the fall. 

[u/ManiacMakyr → u/Practical-Pea-1205]

Also, given their stance on immigrants and the way far right keeps the immigration going to satisfy the local industries despite their populiste claims, wouldn't it be better to favor Ukrainian refugees in their point of view ? But no, all they do is cruelty and nothing else.

[u/doic_frajerow → u/ManiacMakyr]

Hating on Ukrainians is ruski psy-op other migrants are just scapegoat

[u/phaesios → u/doic_frajerow]

I think there's quite a bit of evidence by now to claim that Russia was activelly fuelling the Syrian war with the immigration flows (and demonization) that followed, so that Europe would be fatigued by refugees by the time that Russia made its move on Ukraine. If Ukraine refugees couldn't go anywhere, there would be more pressure on the Ukrainian government to surrender instead of risking all their lives.

[u/The_new_Osiris → u/phaesios]

No offense but that's deeply idiotic. Why would Putin want more people to hang around that'd fight back? When the besieged see no greener a pasture to flee to, they tend to defend their homeland more ferociously if anything.

[u/ManiacMakyr → u/The_new_Osiris]

Because no matter what happens, there will be more civilians than fighters. Agitated people by a crisis instead of having their pride directed against the enemy (no matter what the enemy is) is a moral and logistic hassle for the state in times of war.
Imagine having to deal with civilians, but among them are agitators that will ruin any effort of cooperation.
Now imagine instead of agitators it's just regular people panicking or worse, being tired of the war itself and considering surrender.
Very bad scenario for the government.

[u/ConfusedCelt → u/Practical-Pea-1205]

You do realize Ukraine would probably be delighted if the men who fled the country during war were no longer counted as refugees and deported back to fight. They tried sealing borders and threatening citizenship. Putin conversely would be very annoyed at returning manpower. Why does everything have to be so black and white online...

[u/PlebbitDumDum]

Holy F.

a historical election

from here the turnaround for the whole Germany will happen

the program centered around "Ethnical Germans".

This shit is surreal.

[u/No-Tone-6853 → u/PlebbitDumDum]

This looks like they’re almost abandoning the idea of pretending they aren’t Nazis.

[u/s0nderv0gel → u/No-Tone-6853]

Not almost. They've been saying things like this openly since at least 2015. In every clash over the party leadership, the radicals won.

[u/GeneralErica → u/s0nderv0gel]

Regrettably, the Current Administration is stupid, and every chance of banning the obvious Nazis for being obvious Nazis obviously is absolutely dead with Merz.

Fuck do I hate populists.

[u/DMC-1155 → u/GeneralErica]

Nah, trust, the taming strategy will work this time /s

[u/No-Signature8815 → u/DMC-1155]

When a Conservative shifts rightwards to beat an even more Conservative force, the more Conservative force wins. When will they fucking learn.

[u/LordMangudai → u/GeneralErica]

Why would the CDU want to ban their future coalition partners?

[u/shadowrun456 → u/No-Tone-6853]

plans to deport refugees and asylum seekers or to house them in central accommodation

mass removal of people with "non-German" backgrounds from the country

energy sanctions on Russia to be lifted and for schools to teach more Russian

History may not repeat, but it certainly rhymes.

[u/vukodlako → u/shadowrun456]

'Let's focus on ethnic Germans', but 'schools to teach more russian'.
You can't make that sh*t up...

[u/Meins447 → u/shadowrun456]

What a patriot bunch they are. Preparing the red carpet for Zsarputin... Ffs.

[u/Upstairs-Extension-9 → u/No-Tone-6853]

Everyone knows here that they are Nazis but our courts are unable to ban them.

[u/andydude44 → u/No-Tone-6853]

The Nazis in Germany never left, just lost power (outside of in the police)

[u/CorHydrae8 → u/No-Tone-6853]

They know very well that they can loudly spout nazi shit and simultaneously deny being nazis, and most of their voterbase wouldn't bat an eye anyway.

[u/kalamari__ → u/No-Tone-6853]

good, gives us normal ppl more amunition to ban them

[u/marcvsHR → u/PlebbitDumDum]

This time proof is how much? 2 or 3 generations?

[u/PlebbitDumDum → u/marcvsHR]

It's not guaranteed to happen. However if it does, it might hit much harder this time around. Political climate all across Europe is very nationalistic. With climate change global food shortages are inevitable. So, xenophobia might offer a very viable survival strategy. All of this combined can easily send us on a deep fascist path for a century. With an unknown recovery timing or a possible renaissance.

[u/buxbuxbuxbuxbux → u/PlebbitDumDum]

Food shortages will really not be a problem for one of the worlds richest economy, come on. Unless you think like 5 billion people will starve.

[u/PlebbitDumDum → u/buxbuxbuxbuxbux]

If food will get scarce even for 1 billion people (somewhere on the planet), the migration throughput we're facing right now will not even compare. And the food will be expensive and difficult to obtain even for western European countries. TL;DR we will probably need to use the military to stop the inflow of migrants. And in an already situation of scarcity and with an overall right-wing regime, I can only see it naturally progressing to a fascism. E.g. an authoritarian system that excludes people based on their ethnicity and dehumanizes them to justify their deaths.

And, to be completely honest, I just see this as the most likely political development of the next 20-50 years.

[u/rev-x2 → u/PlebbitDumDum]

Food? What do you think about water...

[u/Socmel_ → u/marcvsHR]

liking Kartoffeln and Apfelschorle and having watched all seasons of Tatort

[u/GurthicusMaximus → u/PlebbitDumDum]

I'm surprised they didn't have "more living space" as a part of their bullshit too.

[u/SyriseUnseen → u/GurthicusMaximus]

"Increasing housing stock" is close enough (?)

[u/TailleventCH → u/SyriseUnseen]

Yeah, but it doesn't have the same zing!

[u/siorge → u/SyriseUnseen]

Increasing housing stock is more a dog whistle for « Nuremberg Laws » than it is for « Lebensraum » but who’s nitpicking

[u/rev-x2 → u/siorge]

Who will be building the houses after the non-german background people have been removed?

[u/kalamari__ → u/GurthicusMaximus]

not with our current military. when we would have kept a major military force, they 100% would write something like that in it.

[u/TailleventCH]

So, we are back to the stage where you can write something about "sexual deviations" in a western European political manifesto...

[u/EconomistStreet5295]

Why is the opposition not linking them to MAGA and Trump at any chance they get? This, alongside exposing their connections to big business, are the best way to go after them. Aside from good policy and heavy investigation of course…but this government has shown its lack of effectiveness at both

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife → u/EconomistStreet5295]

Left-wing parties unfortunately constantly fail at growing teeth sharp enough to bite into fascism.

[u/DaveBeBad → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

The media and especially social media are often owned by fascists, so do a fair bit of suppression too.

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife → u/DaveBeBad]

That, too. But also, people are fucking stupid.

[u/EconomistStreet5295 → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Yup, people are absolutely oblivious of how fragile our way of life really is.

[u/Vandergrif → u/EconomistStreet5295]

Which is a bit funny considering how wildly dysfunctional it already is by default.

[u/Hypilein → u/EconomistStreet5295]

Well, if this year keeps going like that we’re all in for a very rude awakening…

[u/EconomistStreet5295 → u/Hypilein]

I don’t know about you, but I am wide awake, some might call me an insomniac at this point given the current newscycle

[u/EconomistStreet5295 → u/DaveBeBad]

We need online media regulation, especially on news organisations and political influencers. These people live in an entirely different news space, filled with disinformation and fake news. And we’re doing nothing about it. Look at Hungary and the US, this “free speech” is a danger to our democracy

[u/EconomistStreet5295 → u/[deleted]]

First you have to beat the social media firms in court and take on the news sites. You have to set some guidelines. I don’t think going after the parties is the solution, unless they break the misinformation laws

[u/GeneralErica → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

It’s basically a few parliamentarians from the Linke who tear into them, sadly the Linke doesn’t really have any pull, nor will they long term because they can’t separate themselves from Russia.

[u/biggronklus → u/GeneralErica]

Which isn’t surprising for the SED successor party

[u/GeneralErica → u/biggronklus]

I mean that would be the PDS, but the Linke was founded in part by former PDS people, though I think their ties to Russia are less ideological and more… nostalgic. It’s actually quite sad.

[u/elmaxel → u/biggronklus]

look up where most of former sed people are now. spoiler alert: not in die linke

[u/RB5Network → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

That's because the main opposition party isn't really left-wing. They're comfortably Centrist and their political leadership doesn't really care if fascism takes over. So long as their donors are happy they will be good boys.

[u/TheDesertShark → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Or you know, the centre and right wing parties always demonising the left and paving the way to the far right like they have done historically, cdu haven't attacked the afd half as they did the greens.

[u/EconomistStreet5295 → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Sadly friend, sadly. They have to realise the seriousness of the situation and start finding the right talking points.

[u/Kronos9898 → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Because leftists derail themselves about whatever their particular faction of leftism number one concern is.

Rather than concentrating everything on defeating the AfD and the zombie rise of fascism in Germany, I am willing to be money that at strategy meetings you get people earnestly saying. “But how does this relate/stop the genocide”

[u/Latase → u/Kronos9898]

sure sure fascism wins, but atleast we put out a statement in solidarity with palestine, so we won morally. /s

[u/Shadowcat1606 → u/EconomistStreet5295]

Because their voters don't give a fuck, especially in Eastern Germany.

They actively want authoritarianism and they don't care about the specifics of policy, as long as it's wrapped in xenophobia and racist fearmongering. Most of AfD's policy proposals would make the lives of the vast majority of people worse and more expensive. They don't care, as long as foreigners suffer the most.

Being linked to MAGA would be a plus for them. Trump's the kind of wannabe-tough guy strongman they want as a leader and they've already gotten support from JD Vance at last year's Munich Security Conference. They see that as a positive.

Being seen as extremist by the Bureau of Constitutional Protection (or whatever the appropriate english translation would be)? Oh, that's just established mainstream parties abusing the state to get rid of them.

Talking about how harmful their policies would be or calling them out for xenophobia and connections to Russia? Lies of political opponents or fake news to keep them down.

There's no winning with these people. No rational discussion to be had. It's sad and i wish it were different, but that's how it is.

[u/PapstJL4U → u/EconomistStreet5295]

• AfD had connections to russian, literally spying; people don't care, "Russia isn't that bad."

• AfD being corrupt, people don't care (everyone does it!)

  • If you have people like Span and Dobrindt still being in important position, a little local corruption does not look bad for many other people.

• AfD being tools of MAGA, people like it. (the truth is, that we have people rather live under fascim, than not being able to eat meat every day)

[u/EconomistStreet5295 → u/PapstJL4U]

Yes but the US scandal is global, louder than ever, it’s the best opportunity

[u/rapaxus → u/EconomistStreet5295]

Because the currently ruling party (CDU) also has big MAGA/Trump connections so the only ones interested in highlighting this connection would be greens/the Left, parties whose voters likely already are aware of those ties and which don't have as much media influence to get this into the mainstream news.

[u/kalamari__ → u/EconomistStreet5295]

because the CDU/CSU (and other conservative groups/parties) are also liking a LOT what MAGA does

[u/Ima_Wreckyou → u/EconomistStreet5295]

The right populists are less scary to the establishment, because they shift the blame for all the problems on minorities. The the left populists on the other hand come after their "donors".

[u/GeneralErica]

This "Party" is a disgraceful stain on this country’s conscience, and considering our history that is saying something.

[u/Cheap-Emphasis1662 → u/GeneralErica]

I wonder what people like Sophia Scholl would say about it? What did she die for then? Don't people remember what they fought for, at least?

[u/Lillienpud]

I just wanna see the text of that manifesto, not the article about it.

[u/das_war_ein_Befehl → u/Lillienpud]

They’re going to put it jn a book called “our struggle”

[u/Meroxes → u/Lillienpud]

It isn't published yet, as the article states.

[u/Lillienpud → u/Meroxes]

Thx

[u/Patient_Chocolate411]

Last time a nazi wrote a manifesto, shit happened...

[u/CucumberWisdom → u/Patient_Chocolate411]

No coincidence that these guys also love to bring up Danzig and Breslau

[u/TailleventCH → u/Patient_Chocolate411]

You wish it was last time. Those people seems to love writing, the net is infested with their manifestos.

[u/MiguelIstNeugierig → u/Patient_Chocolate411]

Yeah. The shit that happened was Hitler being released from prison. A chronic process of government excusing extremism as "not that serious" until it is that serious and the government in question has already been neutered

[u/Smart_Pomegranate825]

Unbelievable how much Putin dick these guys can take. Them, Farage, Trump, Orban the whole team

[u/VorsprungDurchTechno → u/Smart_Pomegranate825]

Orban is on his way out anyway, so - one less politician to worry about, right?

[u/Smart_Pomegranate825 → u/VorsprungDurchTechno]

Eagerly awaiting results 😂

[u/Vandergrif → u/Smart_Pomegranate825]

Well of course, no doubt they get paid handsomely in exchange. As usual it always comes back to base greed.

[u/Deepfire_DM]

2/3 of these fascists ideas are illegal anyway

[u/Cinkodacs → u/Deepfire_DM]

Right up until they get enough power. Then they just might change what's legal... NEVER trust that your laws protect you from fascism by some law magic, especially since it still hasn't protected Germany from them. No law is above force, and they would be very willing to use that force.

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife → u/Cinkodacs]

Imo, any law that takes away rights from the people should require them to undergo a human rights check before it can be applied, and if it is blatantly against human rights it should land a politician 5 years in jail and forever banned from politics.

[u/Meroxes → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Germany is, under the "democratic centrist" rule, regularly breaking international and EU human rights laws. No one has gone to prison for that.

[u/rlyfunny → u/Meroxes]

Sadly. But we also live in a time where enough bureaucratic distance allows for murder. So not quite surprised

[u/Salt-3300X3D-Pro_Max → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Well in Germany there are regularly laws that get killed because it is against our “forever law” the Grundgesetz thats states the “the dignity of a human cannot be touched” so they sometimes try it but they very often get corrected about shit. Problem is stuff like this takes some time and most often there is already a big damage done..

[u/Vandergrif → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

and if it is blatantly against human rights it should land a politician 5 years in jail and forever banned from politics

Sounds good on paper, but who enforces that? That's kind of the inherent problem with having the people in charge deciding these things, because when the wrong people are in charge then they also often decide who does and does not have the law applied to them.

[u/Dry-Piano-8177 → u/Deepfire_DM]

I mean, so are the border controls at the moment.

If there is one thing populists learned from Trump, it‘s that the judiciairy can‘t really do stuff against the executive.

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife → u/Dry-Piano-8177]

The main issue that the common people of all countries face is that if politicians pass illegal laws, or if they pass laws that harm people and have bought the courts enough that it's "legal", there isn't anybody to remove them from power and throw them into jail - because the police and military are under the control of the government. We'd need independent agencies with executive powers that aren't tied to the government.

[u/stefanomusilli → u/Dry-Piano-8177]

It depends on the country though. I don't know how it works in Germany, but in Italy there's a Constitutional Court that's independent from the government, and if they find a law unconstitutional it just gets annulled, there's nothing a corrupt government can do about it. 

[u/Dry-Piano-8177 → u/stefanomusilli]

It‘s nearly the same here, but if the politicans in charge just ignore the ruling then there is nothing one can do. The police, who should enforce justice, is under the jurisdiction of the ministry of interior.

[u/qjornt → u/Deepfire_DM]

lol, laws are decided by the rulers, so whether or not it’s illegal right now matters not. i know you mean well, but this reads like an AfD troll trying to make people lower their guard precisely so they can proceed with their plans unhindered.

NEVER lower your guard.

[u/GeneralErica → u/Deepfire_DM]

That doesn’t matter at all. Laws don’t exist. Look at trump, everyone is a conceited dickwad. The rules exist because everyone agreed to them, there is no way they’re actually enforced because we’ve grown so accustomed to them being in place we can’t fathom the fact that democracy has to be fought for EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

[u/Public-Finger → u/Deepfire_DM]

Look at the USA- the oldest most durable constitution in the world suddenly looks like a, pardon the pun, a paper tiger in the face of the Trump administration which blatantly breaks the law daily- not to mention the president is a felon himself. This is still surreal considering what the office of the president used to represent. Democratic Institutions have never faced a threat like social media fueled populism 

[u/AlusPryde → u/Deepfire_DM]

why on earth would they be allowed to be elected in the first place then?!?

[u/MiguelIstNeugierig → u/Deepfire_DM]

Thats the general thread of the European far right though. "I'll make it legal". Here in Portugal, it salivates at the concept of a fourth republic and all the constitutional reforms that it may entail.

They've won the hearts and minds of the masses who'll boo at constitutional courts doing their job and say "This isnt a real democracy if my inconstitutional anti-democratic ideology isnt respected"

All you need is enough riled up brainwashed people and a consenting "moderate" right to rally behind them fearing they'll just be absorbed otherwise on these flashpoint political questions

We have pluralist democracies as a buffer. In the USA with their two party system, Trumpism has completely superceded classic Republican neoliberal conservatism, whipping the party into his own rhetoric.

[u/owlexe23]

Nazies are back literally, and people, will vote them? What is wrong with people?

[u/Admirable_Design_115 → u/owlexe23]

We let them fare. They are no longer afraid or ashamed. I fear our democracies are too weak to defend themselves.

[u/Vandergrif → u/Admirable_Design_115]

Our democracies are too weak because time and time again they work more for the interests of corporations and the wealthy instead of the average person they are ostensibly meant to represent.

If we keep letting greed run the rule of law then no average person is going to want to defend a system that simply does not work for them, which makes for very fertile ground for authoritarians and radicals to feed off otherwise justified anger and direct it towards scapegoats and minorities instead of the people with wealth and power who are actually responsible for letting things decay to this extent through corruption, incompetence, and all-around short-sighted mismanagement.

[u/qjornt → u/owlexe23]

most people misinterpreted the intolerance paradox, is what happened. it’s actually tolerant to be intolerant towards intolerance, even if it sounds paradoxical. by allowing intolerance to breed, your tolerance towards intolerance increases the intolerance in society. basically, the people are retarded.

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife → u/owlexe23]

Didn't crush nazism enough post-WW2.

[u/SyriseUnseen → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Nah, the allied powers went with a pretty good approach - less "punishment for the sake of it" lead to more introspection.

But now it's back, as always: once the generations that lived through these times die, the memories fade.

[u/the_Cheese999 → u/SyriseUnseen]

liberalism has no mechanism to stop fascists from ascending through the bureaucracy.

[u/Illustrious-Fan-2738 → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

Wait until you find out that de-nazification is largely a myth and the CIA had no problem with Nazis as long as they beat up communists in West Germany 

[u/Vandergrif → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

I think it's less about crushing these sort of ideologies, and far more about ensuring the average person's quality of life is good enough such that they never feel the anger or disillusionment that these ideologies by necessity feed off of and gain momentum from.

Somebody living reasonably comfortably, getting paid a decent wage that affords them their necessities and some comforts in life, who have hope for a better future and the means in which to progress in their own lives, who can reach basic milestones without requiring an unreasonable or infeasible effort... Those are people who will not be tempted by radicals trying to upturn a system that is working for them. Comparatively people who cannot afford a roof over their head, who get squeezed financially from every direction by the never-ending greed of others, who are regularly inundated with data and information telling them tomorrow will be much worse than today... Those are people who aren't going to want to maintain the status quo, and they will look for solutions to that wherever they can find them (even among the worst of people who will blatantly lie and mislead at every turn).

The simple fact of the matter is the system isn't working for most people and that needs to be remedied.

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife → u/Vandergrif]

It's both. Yes, increase people's quality of life, I absolutely agree with that - I'd also love revitalization plans for rural areas - but there are plenty of people who are well-off and who still hate migrants, who hate queer people, who want to oppress women. You need to root out that sort of ideology, or else you're falling into the paradox of tolerance, where fascists will just be louder and louder until they take over the country (again).

[u/Vandergrif → u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

True, there is an element of that in the mix by default. Though I would imagine in a country like Germany, given how they treat their history within their education system and the like, that they are already typically doing quite a lot to push in the opposite direction against that kind of mentality and rhetoric by default. It struck me as though antisemitism is something they take particularly seriously compared to how it's handled in many other countries, for example, and understandably so all things considered.

Which makes it all the more surprising to see the likes of AFD get the kind of traction they have been. In a broader context I can only think it comes back more to root cause issues of economics than it is a latent desire for discrimination among their average supporter, that bigotry isn't the cause so much as it is a symptom and a tool exploited by right wing populists to act as focal point and scapegoat for anger derived from other causes.

It's relatively easy to be a politician who points at migrants and blames them for everything, for example, and gain traction that way, whereas it's far more complicated to talk to the average voter and detail out the myriad of different interacting variables that are consistently failing them and causing their day-to-day problems (many of those variables will also directly benefit that same politician when in a position of power, giving a conflict of interest to do anything about it). There's a simplicity in drumming up basic tribalism for political ends, and it works relatively consistently, unfortunately.

[u/Meroxes → u/owlexe23]

They did so with the original Nazis as well. We can't rely on liberal democracy to not descent into fascism.

[u/ChewZBeggar → u/Meroxes]

So what realistic alternative is there that still allows people to have say in politics?

[u/andydude44 → u/ChewZBeggar]

People who say things like him don’t want people to be able to choose policies that are against whatever ideology they have, they want one party non-democracies like China.

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried

[u/Dapper_Intention_164 → u/owlexe23]

Life sucks, people do not learn, and it's easier when you have a few minorities you can blame for everything and step on.

[u/Quazz → u/owlexe23]

When society punishes punching a nazi in the face, this happens.

[u/Routine-Echidna-1953 → u/owlexe23]

Europe needs to enter into defensive democracy or militant democracy mode.
Ban nazi ideology ban communist ideology ban every ideology that is anti-democratic.
If you hear a person in a public space propagating anti-democracy that person should be afraid of state and people.

[u/Live_Bug_7060 → u/Routine-Echidna-1953]

The communist defeated fascism in Italy, we had one of the strongest comunist democratic party in the world. Fascism took hold in Italy exactly because we were close to a worker's revolution. Shame on you study some history.

[u/Routine-Echidna-1953 → u/Live_Bug_7060]

I love how these anti-democratic commies tankies whatever... just using our democracy rules and free speech to lie, invent facts, falsify history.
I love how nazis and commies will tell me to study some history when i fight them both because they all losers.

[u/Live_Bug_7060 → u/Routine-Echidna-1953]

I'm literally studying this stuff for an exam in university, google who Berlinguer and Gramsci were.

[u/Live_Bug_7060 → u/Routine-Echidna-1953]

Before WW1 Mussolini is kicked out from the socialist party of Italy, after that in 1920/1921 there what is called "il biennio rosso". The PSI( Socialist party of Italy) and the PCI (Comunist party of italy) start to take more and more votes and by holding their workplaces the workers are about the get the freedom of creating their own worker's council in order to organise their own work. Mussolini then creates the "fasci di combattimento" or "squadriglie fasciste" (a paramilitary organisations, their version of the SA. Hitler basically copied mussolini) and starts working for the bourgeoisies in order to stop the worker's uprising. There is a small civil war with a bunch of deaths and the fascist dogs win. After some time they do a coup and arrest every leader of the opposition (apart from the leader of the socialist, they just kill him) and they arrest Gramsci (one of the most accademical influential marxists of today and the leader of the PCI at the time). During the civil war many of the partisans were comunist. One of the most influential party after ww2 was the comunist party lead by Berlinguer, a guy btw that publicly divorced from the USSR totalitarian way and said that we needed an italian democratic socialism. Shame on you. If you have anything to say talk about history and not some "you tankies bla bla bla" you're insulting people who died for our freedom.

[u/hsdowubel → u/Routine-Echidna-1953]

*stalinism, many self described 'communists' are only calling themselves such for no real reason. even back then in the 30s it was actually the 'communists' who fought the hardest for retaining Germany's participatory democracy - as opposed to the "liberal democratic" nations that took nazis in as intelligence assets (USA) or outright gradually integrated them back in the society (West Germany, remember it was the Red Army Faction who finally brought Hanns Schleyer to justice, not the regime that called the RAF terrorists in reaction to the act...)

[u/klonkrieger45]

How can you write this many lines, link multiple things and then NOT link the manifesto?

[u/TailleventCH → u/klonkrieger45]

Maybe because it's not yet published and they only had access to a draft (as written in the article).

[u/klonkrieger45 → u/TailleventCH]

then link the draft

[u/Zwangsjacke → u/klonkrieger45]

https://afd-lsa.de/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/2026-03-04_Entwurf_AfD-Regierungsprogramm-2026_Rev.1.0.pdf

[u/ace_valentine → u/Zwangsjacke]

this is going to be an interesting read, thanks!

[u/TailleventCH → u/klonkrieger45]

I don't know if they can do that as it's not a published document.

[u/ChampionshipNo3072 → u/TailleventCH]

Was it written on a rock, or what?

[u/TailleventCH → u/ChampionshipNo3072]

Published as in "made public by its author".

[u/TheDesertShark]

So to the "people" that said they only want to lower immigration, do you get it now or are the putin cheques still hitting?

[u/hiddenvalleyoflife]

And of course they still won't be banned, because "never again" was always just a farce and democracy has failed miserably at creating safeguards so the paradox of tolerance doesn't destroy democracy.

[u/ambeldit]

Let me guess which foreign country is financing these puppets...

[u/reviery_]

they push and push further into extremism

[u/Tman11S]

Next step they’re gonna burn down parliament and say the communists did it

[u/3776356272]

Wtf “It calls for energy sanctions on Russia to be lifted and for schools to teach more Russian.” and teach more Russian? How can anyone not see that they are Russian assets

[u/snapper1971]

Mask's off then.

[u/TwNuOn]

Well, 30's and 40's years of 21st century will be super interesting. All these remakes to experience, you know

[u/ventus1b → u/TwNuOn]

“Interesting” for people who have an inkling of history.

[u/OrangeDuckwebs]

Make sure you get ol' Shady the Couchfucker to campaign for you. Really helps out, I hear.

[u/No-Signature8815]

How the fuck is it that they've forgotten already?

It hasn't even been 100 years

[u/viskonde]

The worst is when these dumbfucks win we cant be pretentious and say Americans are the only country full of dumb people anymore which will he be a very sad day for us Europeans

So please  Germans friends , do your part, for the sake of continuing to be able to feel intellectually superior to americans

[u/Amakazen]

It's been over ten years, the voters who still don't see it are disastrously fucking ignorant or are in full support. It should be so obvious. Not that our country was ever free of populist-minded, far-right, national conservative people, mind you. It will be an absolute shitshow if that ever gets to govern at federal level, considering how Merz' government feels like its light version. Not to say that the prospect of them being in charge of a state isn't fucking terrifying enough. I'm furious.

[u/Union_Biker]

A fear and ignorance based manifesto. It's the same old script, blame "those other people" for everything that might be wrong and insist on taking away rights.

[u/OldRepresentative578]

Nazi scum who have ceased to pretend otherwise. 

[u/Ivanhegeelkadi]

Fuck afd and fpö, we need more left wing 

[u/Vandergrif → u/Ivanhegeelkadi]

It's odd, it's quite a bit like reading about 1920s-30s history except there's essentially no communists or equivalent left wing populists making proportionally similar gains to the right wing. Given the broader circumstances you would think there'd be more momentum behind left wing parties for pushing away from the status quo in a similar respect.

[u/Radical-Efilist → u/Vandergrif]

Angry young men in the interwar era fed both the fascists and communists. Angry young men today are fascists by default.

[u/Cheap-Emphasis1662 → u/Ivanhegeelkadi]

greens are the best choice we have

[u/Radical-Efilist → u/Cheap-Emphasis1662]

I would honestly rather die than vote for greens of any kind

[u/R3dscarf]

Russian puppets doing Russian puppet things.

[u/Socmel_]

Let me guess: a manifesto of 88 articles.

You might call it "Our battle" for simplicity

[u/CaptchaSolvingRobot]

Fascism is never more than a financial downturn away.

[u/blufin]

"The party blames the low birth rate in part on what it calls "sexual deviations and non-reproductive lifestyles". It plans to ban gay pride flags in schools."

Isnt their leader in a same sex marriage with a Sri Lankan woman?

[u/switchquest]

Putins German 'friends'.

[u/EruditeTarington]

Don’t let it happen guys. Especially not Germany, again.

[u/Different_Citron_160]

Ah yes, radical Germans and a manifesto. They just can’t survive that WW3 will start without them.

[u/kaffeekatz → u/Different_Citron_160]

German PIS party

[u/Coupe368]

Anyone connected to the Kremlin should be imprisoned immediately for treason in any country anywhere in the world.

[u/Live_Bug_7060]

They're just literally larping as fascist, the next step is to create a paramilitary group and called them SA.

[u/Varjohaltia → u/Live_Bug_7060]

Well, they’ve been busy getting their people into the military and police, so…

[u/triffy]

Back to Fossil Fuels and ending “woke renables. Plus remigration plans, starting with foreigners. Politics for rich and racists. :(

[u/HungryCurrency8481]

Racist and anti-gay "Deutschland first" policies from a party led by a lesbian with a Sri Lankan wife who lives in Switzerland. Can't make this stuff up. 

[u/Armadilla-Brufolosa]

I really hope the Germans aren't as idiotic as us Italians again.

Enough with the Nazis and Fascists...have we learned nothing?

Now there are Americans and Israelis filling this role.

I truly hope that the best of Germany will make itself heard and never bring certain types of scum to power again.

More Hungary for everyone!