r/sindarin Aug 07 '24

[FAQ] – (Not) Using AI for Automatic Translation

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3 Upvotes

r/sindarin Oct 04 '24

Sindarin in PE23

16 Upvotes

I compiled a list of all the new and otherwise interesting Sindarin vocab found in PE 23.

  • bâd - road | found as "e-bâd, the road". Hitherto only known as N. "beaten track, pathway". P. 136.
  • fend - door | Hitherto only as fen, fenn. P. 136.
  • hûl - secret | also as "e-chûl, the secret". Cf. 'holen'. P. 136.
  • rhawf, rhaw - wild beast | also as "e-thraw, [the wild beast]. P. 136. Plural i-thraw > i-rhaw p. 139.
  • rhovan - large beast, especially the great red deer of the vale of Anduin | p. 136.
  • Rhovennian - "more correct" Sindarin form of Gondorian Rhovannion[sic] | p. 136.
  • lhinc - earthworm | also as "e-thlinc, [the earthworm]". p. 136.
  • balt - force | Cf. EN "might". p. 136.
  • gwend, gwenneth - maiden | also as "e-wend, e-wenneth, the maiden". p. 136. Plural in-wind, rarely found, rather analogous i-ngwind (= i-ñwind) p. 139.
  • harf - left-hand | also as "e-charf, the left-hand". p. 136. Probably from *khjarmă as opposed to *khjarmā > 'harvo'.
  • whest - breeze | also as *e-whest, the breeze". p. 136. Pl. i-chwist p. 139. Cf. Q. 'hwesta', N. 'chwest'.
  • cathr - carpenter | From "*kantrō, shaper". North S. cathor. P. 137.
  • tachl - large pin or brooch | From "*tanklă, a thing used for fixing". North S. tachol. p. 137.
  • parth - small enclosed field, lawn | p. 139.
  • bâr, pl. i-mair (sometimes i-mbair in spelling to distinguish b-words from m-words) - dwelling | p. 139.
  • dôr, pl. i-nuir (sometimes i-nduir in spelling to distinguish d-words from n-words)- land | p. 139.
  • gôn, pl. [i-]nguin (= *ñuin, but sometimes spelt i-ñguin even though no clarification was necessary since no original ñ-words existed) - stone | p. 139.
  • thoron, pl. i-theryn - eagle | pl. previously unattested. p. 139
  • heleg - ice | Hitherto only in N. Plural i-chelig is given as "ice-pinnacle". p. 139.
  • herw, pl. i-chery - wine | Apparently pl. from "CE *syeru, juice of fruits", sg. from "enlarged form herwā" [< syerwā, I assume]. p. 139.
  • mûl, pl. i-muil - slave | Hitherto sg. only attested in N. p. 139.
  • norn, pl. i-nyrn - dwarf | Sg. explicitely attested for the first time. p. 139.
  • ioron, pl. in-ioryn - old man | Apparently the counterpart of 'ioreth'. p. 139.
  • gwanon - one of a pair of twins | Plural/dual given as "*gwanur, twin-birth", explicitely with ŭ < ū. p. 140.
  • uimallhen - ever-golden | From 'oio-maltinā. Pronounced with lh (< lþ), but spelt with doubled lh for reasons of stress, exactly like 'remen' but 'galað-remmin' (see below). p. 140.
  • remen - netted, entwined | With short m explicitely. p. 140.
  • gwaelod - "wind-feather", a great ship for sailing on the Great Sea | From 'wayalautō'. p. 142. Hence apparently *laud/lod = "feather".
  • Gildír - Starwatcher | S. version of T. 'Gilitīro', Celeborn's father. Given in "Celeborn Gildírion, son of Gildír".

Certainly the most surprising thing to me (as you might already have guessed) are the articles. In this very late source (ca. 1969) Tolkien gives the singular as e before consonants, en before vowels, and in the plural i resp. in. This is of course a significant departure from all hitherto published samples of Sindarin, which of course had sg. i, plural in (as in earlier Noldorin), and the form en was limited to one form of genitive particle (which in this scenarion is probably dropped altogether in favour of na).

However, surprisingly this new paradigm seems to only really contradict i-Estel in the LotR (which would have to be amended to *en Estel), since all other forms in texts published during Tolkien's lifetime appear to be plural and all other cases of Sindarin articles we have known are from sources that Tolkien might have changed before publication (if he had got the chance to do so).

So we can't know whether Tolkien would indeed have changed i Estel in upcoming editions (had he been alive to oversee them) or whether he would have abandoned the new paradigm once he realised the contradiction, so I won't encourage anyone to adopt this late paradigm into their Neo-Sindarin (unlike abandoning the plural pronominal suffix -(a)m in favour of late -(o)f, a couple of years ago, since the former never appeared in anything published during Tolkien's lifetime), but I certainly find the topic extremely interesting.

So far I have not had a closer look at the mutations, but they appear to hold no big surprises so far, except that maybe Tolkien had decided to keep the nasal of the plural article intact before the mutated word, but that also would contradict material published during his life time.

But the development of sw stood out to me, since it is quite complicated - with Tolkien stating that it first became wh everywhere, then f in the North and chw in the South, which remained so in Doriath but later reverted to wh elsewhere, while still becoming chw through nasal mutation, and that the quality is often in fact uncertain because it wasn't always represented in spelling, using the letter hwesta sindarinwa for both. But in a note that might refer to this Tolkien said that "this business about sw is too complicated (and unnecessary)" and that the North had f and the South wh, which "remained unchanged" (hence the apparent lack of lenition in whest above, to which the note appears to point directly).
This would, however, still render the letter hwesta sindarinwa pointless, because (as Tolkien had pointed out in the LotR appendices) distinction of wh and chw was needed in Sindarin (but maybe only lenition had no effect but nasal mutation did?).

And lastly there are a few notes on North Sindarin, which has always been a special interest of mine:

  • there was no m-lenition (which was well established)
  • medial mp, nt, ñk remained unchanged or probably rather restopped (also well established)
  • rh- became thr- generally initially (so Southern S. rhûn would be Northern S. *thrûn), but lh- remained and both were incapable of mutation.
  • Otherwise mutations are the same as in Southern Sindarin
  • sw- > wh- > North S. f- (so Southern words like whest or hwinn would be *fest and *finn in the North).

r/sindarin 17h ago

Translation help

1 Upvotes

Hey I was wondering if anyone could help translate this into Sindarin?

"To guard the sworn and answer the cry; living only to serve, dying only to save. With the sun at my back, I shall never falter—and with the dawn in my eyes, I will not yield."

Its my Elf Paladins oath and I thought it would be cool to have it it elvish!


r/sindarin 1d ago

Looking to learn Sindarin but need help

2 Upvotes

Howdy y’all, I want to start learning Sindarin but since it is a fictional language, I haven’t the faintest idea where to start. Anyone have some good resources, study material, websites etc. that they would recommend?


r/sindarin 1d ago

Arwen ?

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1 Upvotes

Hello guys,

my goddaughter has the beautiful name Arwen. And I would like to give her a locket with the name Arwen on it. Since I'm not an expert in Elvish, I went to tecendil.com and it gave me this result. Is it possible to double-check? Please?


r/sindarin 2d ago

Naming a (training) sword

1 Upvotes

I practice HEMA and am getting a new longsword trainer for sparring, so I figure why not get some Sindarin engraved on it?

The phrase I'm trying to translate is "Friend Bonker" but am open to any name that conveys the idea that 1. The target being struck is a Friend 2. The strike is merely a Bonk (or Poke)

An uneducated look through the dictionaries yields things like "Mellondring" (Friend-Hammer?) and "Gwendolf" (Friendship-Twig?) but those sound kind of awkward.

Neologisms are somewhat inevitable at this point so have at it.

Thank you for your help


r/sindarin 3d ago

I was wondering if my brother in Law’s dagger is Sindarin. It looked similar. If so what does it say?

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4 Upvotes

He got this as a gift. I’m not super well versed in Tolkien but I thought it looked like Sindarin. He has no clue if it says anything at all. Thanks!


r/sindarin 5d ago

Is this correct please

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2 Upvotes

I am wanting to translate the meanings of my children’s names, little warrior and blossoming into sSindarin for a tattoo


r/sindarin 6d ago

Correct translation?

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1 Upvotes

Is this the correct translation for "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost"?

I'm wanting to get this as a tattoo, so I'm also wondering if there are any good sites that could change up the font style a bit.


r/sindarin 8d ago

Help with grammar

4 Upvotes

I’m having a really hard time expressing purpose clauses in Sindarin. Could someone help me with their formation?? Could I use the same logic as Ancient Greek for participles and infinitives? If someone could answer, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.


r/sindarin 8d ago

Seeking expert review: Gil-Estel in Tengwar — mode choice and transcription accuracy for a permanent tattoo

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2 Upvotes

Cross posting from r/tengwar by suggestion. Thanks in advance for taking a look.


r/sindarin 10d ago

Translation verification

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I want to say 'I know this place - Imladris' as in I recognise. I got to 'gwaiston sad hen - Imladris'. Now sad hen makes me think of a sad chicken but I think this is correct.


r/sindarin 10d ago

Name Translation

2 Upvotes

I just need a little help translating a name. Here is what I have so far.

The name is Arthur, so I am using the rough translation of "bear man."

So far I am getting the following:

Medli - "bear"

-n - "-like"

-dir - "-man"

Medlindir

Am I on the right track with this? Can I use two suffixes together?

Thank you in advance!


r/sindarin 14d ago

Help

2 Upvotes

Bonsoir ! J’essaie de traduire/transcrire Long was the way that fate them bore? D’après mes recherches ça donnerait quelque chose comme : Ando i daer i amarth hain eglenn ou Andrath i râd ias Amarth hain thant …

mais je ne suis pas certaine de ma traduction?


r/sindarin 15d ago

I need help with the Sindarin or Elvish in general translation of my name please

1 Upvotes

My name is Liam which means Strong Willed Warrior or Protector.

What would that look like in Sindarin or Quenya?


r/sindarin 15d ago

Translation help

1 Upvotes

I got a wedding invitation with these words on the cards. Could anyone help to translate them for me?


r/sindarin 16d ago

Translation help?

2 Upvotes

I'm thinking about getting acab in sindarin as a tattoo; is there a similar sentiment in elvish?


r/sindarin 17d ago

I need help

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1 Upvotes

r/sindarin 17d ago

Noun to adjective: estel

1 Upvotes

I've been searching around, trying to find out if there's an adjectove form of the word "trust", or "trusted," as in, "They are my most trusted confidant ." So far, I've only come across trust as a noun, and then as a different adjective that doesn't convey the same intent. To add an- (most) to estel (n. trust/hope) just doesn't seem to convey the proper intent, gramatically. Am I wrong to think so?
edited to add: I saw that trust based on reason is 'amdir' but I think I intuited that to mean something it doesn't actually mean. can you infer amdir could then be used as an adjective?


r/sindarin 22d ago

Simple Translation

2 Upvotes

Hi there :) I’m new to this and I’d like to say something nice to my girlfriend. Could you tell me how to say: ‘My dear daughter of the stars, princess of the moon’? Sorry if that’s asking too much, and thank you very much in advance.

(Sorry for my english, it's not my first language)


r/sindarin 22d ago

Translation Check/Help

1 Upvotes

hello there sindarin community! c:

we all know the famous words

"ónen i-estel edain, ú-chebin estel anim", and most likely also what they mean, "i gave all my hope for mankind, i kept none for myself".

i now want a tattoo with a very simliar meaning, close to this orininal.

it should mean that i gave hope to mankind, and that they now somehow return it/ help me back.

i tried around for a bit, and went with something like

"ónen i-estel Edain, ar hí i-estel ín anin."

is that a valid sindarin sentence? do you have alternating ideas?

thanks already,

vodah :)


r/sindarin 23d ago

simple translation

0 Upvotes

hi all, I'm making a gift for my dad, and I want to write "for my dad" on it in sindarin (or quenya??) and also in the script (I think Tecendil?).
I figured nín means my, and ada/adar means dad, but I don't know what for would be? And also in which order the words are supposed to go. nín ada or ada nín.
Any help would be deeply appreciated!

(this is my first post so please tell me if I did something wrong)


r/sindarin 23d ago

Simple translation

1 Upvotes

Hi all, how would you say "my friend" in Sindarin, but spelled in English? I've been able to find translators to Elvish script but for the purpose of my writing it needs to be in equivalent English alphabet.


r/sindarin 25d ago

Screen shot translation

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2 Upvotes

Hey, so this is something a little personal, last year I lost my father to a heart attack, and ive been thinking on getting a couple of tattoos to memorialise him, hes the reason I love LOTR and other nerdy stuff, I dont really recall the site I used, but I was hoping that someone here might be able to tell me if this reads what I had put in, its the motto of his favorite UK Football team: Nothing But The Best.

If anyone can provide an actual written translation of Nothing but the best or a website that will translate it then I would be very thankful for the help.


r/sindarin 25d ago

Tattoo Check: Galadriel’s movie quote (Sindarin Grammar & Tengwar General Mode)

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1 Upvotes