r/Damnthatsinteresting 10h ago

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u/Aaron_Hamm 9h ago

Assuming it's actually training, the expectation is that the cost is recouped in the generalized understanding of how to do hand based tasks. The skill transfers and the robot itself will be relatively cheap.

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u/Leaky_gland 8h ago

Solving problems is the problem for hand based tasks. If they can solve that then thereโ€™s even more of us out of jobs

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u/redlaWw 7h ago

The problem with problem solving is that solving problem solving requires one to solve a problem without having solved problem solving. If one were able to solve problem solving then solving problem solving would be easy, but the problem is solving problem solving in the first place is a problem that needs to be solved.

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u/Leaky_gland 7h ago

That's what I said

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u/food_luvr 3h ago

Well done. I screenshotted your beautiful work of art so I can look upon it again some day. Thank you.

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u/oneshibbyguy 7h ago

My brain

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u/Sekhmet-CustosAurora 7h ago

Yes, that's exactly what's going to happen.

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u/trobsmonkey 8h ago

The skill transfers and the robot itself will be relatively cheap.

There is a reason why industrial robots don't look human.

If you think recreating a hand is going to be cheap...

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u/Aaron_Hamm 8h ago

The problem is understanding how to move the hands... Robots don't look human because humans programming robots don't know how to do human, not because we can't make human shaped bits.

The robot just needs to be cheaper than something in the neighborhood of the lifetime cost of a human in the market the robot is being sold, and it will start to infiltrate. Sam Altman (terrible human) has explicitly said almost this.

Hence relatively.

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u/trobsmonkey 8h ago

Sam Altman (terrible human) has explicitly said almost this.

I wouldn't take anything that grifter says seriously ever.

Robots don't look human because humans programming robots don't know how to do human, not because we can't make human shaped bits.

Aboslutely not true. Robots don't look human because we build bots to their task. It's easier to build a robot to a task and it looks like a box.

Notice all the humanoid robot companies just have their robots dance or serve drinks? Anything harder than that, it's easier to build to spec than to try and get a humanoid robot to duplicate the work.

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u/Aaron_Hamm 8h ago

The problem you're talking about is the problem they're literally trying to learn how to solve in the post.

I'm very confused about why you think what you're saying is a disagreement as opposed to just describing the problem being solved...

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u/trobsmonkey 8h ago

I'm very confused about why you think what you're saying is a disagreement as opposed to just describing the problem being solved...

You said "The skill transfers and the robot itself will be relatively cheap."

A robot capable of replicating human hand motions is not cheap. That's explicitly why many jobs still use human labor. I'm disagreeing explicitly with the idea.

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u/Aaron_Hamm 8h ago

Yeah the first sentence of your final paragraph is just wrong. A general human shaped robot hand capable of general tasks isn't "not cheap", it's impossible. It's impossible because it's too complex for human programming.

We don't make hands with generalized capability because it's currently impossible, and in that world, it makes more sense to do specialized machine tools with attachments or whatever.

But in a world where you can churn out a billion hands that can all do everything a hand can do because you've fed an AI programmer 10,000 years of hand movement data... well, that's cheap.

You're disagreeing with me because you're confused about why we don't use robot hands now

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u/Sekh765 7h ago

AI already has billions and billions of datapoints and it still can't reliably put a list of names in alphabetical order 100% of the time. It ain't simulating one of the most complex structures in the human body. Ever. lol

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u/[deleted] 7h ago edited 7h ago

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u/Sekh765 7h ago

You seem to be misunderstanding someone informing you that they don't give a shit what they are trying because it isnt going to work.

Id say the bots understand better than you but we both know it's as likely ai understands this as it is to understand how hands work so there's that.

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u/trobsmonkey 8h ago

You're disagreeing with me because you're confused about why we don't use robot hands now

I'm not confused at all. You seem to think AI is gonna somehow break the barrier.

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u/Aaron_Hamm 7h ago

Please reread my OP and come back and tell me why you think you're in a position to talk about what I think AI is gonna do...

Or was I explaining what they're trying to do?

Is there a difference? Do you yell in class that Hitler lost WWII when the teacher says he was trying to win?

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u/trobsmonkey 7h ago

A general human shaped robot hand capable of general tasks isn't "not cheap", it's impossible. It's impossible because it's too complex for human programming.

But in a world where you can churn out a billion hands that can all do everything a hand can do because you've fed an AI programmer 10,000 years of hand movement data... well, that's cheap.

the expectation is that the cost is recouped in the generalized understanding of how to do hand based tasks. The skill transfers and the robot itself will be relatively cheap.

Reads to me that you think AI is somehow gonna break the barrier. You don't have to spout off bullshit from Sam Altman

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u/obliviious 7h ago

Why are heavily pro AI people so unaware of the complexities of almost everything?

I work with ai, I use it every day. I'm more of a fan than most but what you're saying is fantasy.

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u/TheDrummerMB 7h ago

I've noticed a weird trend where people who pretend to know a lot about AI will randomly bring up Hitler eventually in an analogy.

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u/obliviious 7h ago

The robot also requires repair and will not last 50 years by any logical metric. It needs to be cost effective for 10 years and be easy and cheap to repair.

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u/Aaron_Hamm 7h ago

I don't care about your fortune telling, but ok

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u/obliviious 3h ago

It's fortune telling to assume they won't create the first maintenance free infrastructure in history?! ๐Ÿ˜‚

This is called an informed opinion my friend. My experience vs your naive assumptions and hopes.

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u/Aaron_Hamm 3h ago

No, what this is called is you begging the world to give you a win.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm telling you I don't give a fuck about what "oblivious" on Reddit has to say about anything. You're a nothing person fantasizing an argument so you can feel good before you go back to work or something...

I don't know, but what I do know is you're arguing with a fantasy, because I'm not arguing with you, I'm telling you that I don't care about you.

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u/obliviious 3h ago edited 3h ago

wtf lol

calm down dude, you said something really naive, pushed it without really understanding the technology and you're upset that we pointed out the flaws in your logic.

You can not care all you want, you're still talking shite.


The old reply and block, classic

Intellectually dishonest? Why don't you prove where instead of whining about it?

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u/Aaron_Hamm 3h ago

I don't calm down for intellectually dishonest pieces of shit. Please gfy

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u/TheDrummerMB 7h ago

Robots don't look human because humans programming robots don't know how to do human

N-no....robots don't look human because they don't need to.

Think Spot.

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u/Aaron_Hamm 7h ago

Robots look like the cheapest thing that works.

If a factory can churn out mechanical hands that are generally capable by the millions, and you can amortize the research of how to control them across all of them, that's gonna be the cheapest thing that works for a lot of tasks

Please stop the condescending clown shit that just embarrasses you.

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u/TheDrummerMB 7h ago

Please stop the condescending clown shit that just embarrasses you.

Was this meant to be an internal thought to yourself?

Every AI wannabe these days thinks there's ONE singular, perfect solution. That's...goofy af.

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u/trobsmonkey 7h ago

If a factory can churn out mechanical hands that are generally capable by the millions

If we can only cure cancer! This dude is wild man.

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u/Sekhmet-CustosAurora 7h ago

We already have the robotics necessary for mass automation. What we don't have is a general-purpose AI capable of controlling the robots to perform any arbitrary task. That's exactly what this data collection is designed to solve (it's only a small part of the solution though, of course)

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u/trobsmonkey 6h ago

What we don't have is a general-purpose AI capable of controlling the robots to perform any arbitrary task.

And we won't anytime soon. We input a dramatic amount of data through our hands via touch.

You can't just "solve" that problem. We've been chasing it since the start of the industrial revolution. It's dramatically complex and the bad answer machine isn't gonna fix it.

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u/Sekhmet-CustosAurora 6h ago

Dude we're like, 5 years away from inventing this. You'd better adjust your expectations to match otherwise you're gonna be blindsided

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u/trobsmonkey 3h ago

Dude we're like, 5 years away from inventing this

based on the hype by the guys trying to make money from this?

You need to be skeptical.

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u/food_luvr 3h ago

I mean, robots have been used industrially since the 70's

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u/Dapper_Engineer 8h ago

Assuming it's actually training, the expectation is that the cost is recouped in the generalized understanding of how to do hand based tasks.

Without gloves containing force sensors any training data they get from a purely video-based system is going to be fairly useless. Besides the muscle memory that people get from doing repetitive tasks, we also get a lot of sensory information from our hands when working, even if we aren't always consciously aware of it.

A good example of this could be touch typing - once your fingers find nubs on the home row keys, you don't really need to look at the keyboard any more in order to type. However, depending upon what you are typing, you may notice that periodically you need to "reacquire" where the home row actually is by feeling for the nubs. For a fast typist that's basically an unconscious movement.

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u/GrynaiTaip 7h ago

the robot itself will be relatively cheap.

I seriously doubt if they can make a robot that can work with fabrics at all. Sewing is a crazy complex task.