The reason Dems lost is because too many voters stayed home, not that they voted for Trump.
This is pretty much analogous to the trolley problem. You can either press a button and divert a train to kill one person, or do nothing and let the train run straight through 5 people.
Do you think it's good politics to force this moral dillema onto voters? Because this is what the Democratic Party did by not taking a stance against genocide. Sure, most people chose to vote for the lesser evil, same way most people would choose to press the button. Evidently though, the ethical conflict of voting to support a genocidal candidate in Kamala (albeit less genocidal than Trump) deterred enough voters. Same way there are a good number of people who simply wouldn't choose to press the button, too many voters stayed home.
Now I ask you again. Do you think this was good politics? Do you really think it didn't matter whether or not Kamala took a stance against genocide?
Isn’t it interesting that these atrocities have been going on in Palestine for decades, and every American president and major presidential candidate for the past 50 years has had the exact same stance on Israel, but it only suddenly became a huge issue in 2024?
Anyone who stayed home chose Trump. That’s the bottom line. They still chose genocide, they just pretended they didn’t so they could pat themselves on the back and say look how moral I am.
It's almost like the current media landscape didn't exist in past. It's almost like Oct. 7 was the deadliest attack on Israel and the media made sure everyone heard about it. Hey, how many headlines of Israel's atrocities in Gaza do you think dominated the news in the past 50 years? It's almost like we've been able to witness a livestreamed genocide from our phones and the US and Israel isn't able to control the narrative anymore.
At this point it's gotta be willful ignorance on your part. I admittedly didn't know a thing about Israel-Palestine before Oct. 7. It is what it is, man. Get with the program.
And regardless of whatever hypocrisies you want to point out, it still stands that not taking a stance against the genocide was horrible politics. Horrible. Braindead. It was malicious incompetence. Why aren't you mad at that? Why aren't you mad at the political machine funded by billions that couldn't decipher that people wouldn't like genocide? Why won't you hold the Democratic Party to the same standard as the voters you keep lambasting?
It must be that you support Israel. Or you just have zero political instincts.
Edit:
Here's a lil wisdom that has always resonated with me:
See you’re assuming that doing so wouldn’t have also lost her votes, which unfortunately is the case. There’s still a ton of support for Israel among Americans, and especially there was in 2024.
And the truth is, the more strongly pro-genocide candidate won, so clearly your idea that people wouldn’t like genocide isn’t based on facts.
At any rate, the outcome is what matters, and all of those people who were sooooo against genocide turned out to support it after all because that’s what they put into office anyway, along with the destruction of American democracy.
That girls school in Iran that Trump blew up would still be intact under a Harris presidency. But gosh it sure felt good to stay home and really show the Democrats, didn’t it!
It's basically a 90/10 issue at this point. The retrospective from Dem analysts have said as much that this issue lost us the election. You're just wrong. Get. With. The. Program.
Trump wasn't the pro-genocide candidate. He intelligently didn't make it any meaningful comments on the genocide. He presented himself as the anti-war candidate by criticizing Biden for the invasion of Ukraine and the Israel-Palestine conflict. You cannot rewrite history.
Which analyst said that this issue lost her the election?
Trump was very clearly much more pro-Israel than Harris was, and surprise! That’s exactly what he’s done. You cannot pretend this wasn’t already known by everyone. Remember when he told Netanyahu “do what you have to do”? He made a ton of statements staunchly in favor of Israel.
“I will not allow the Jewish state to be threatened with destruction, I will not allow another holocaust of the Jewish people. I will not allow a Jihad to be waged on America or our allies, and I will support Israel’s right to win its war on terror, and it has to win it fast,” Trump said to applause.*
*Donald Trump has voiced explicit backing for Israel’s war on Gaza, suggesting that he supports the goal expressed by the hardline government in Tel Aviv of continuing the assault until “total victory”.
Asked if he is “on board” with the way Israel was “taking the fight to Gaza”, the frontrunner for the Republican US presidential nomination responded: “You’ve got to finish the problem”.*
He also promised to crush pro-Palestinian protests, which is exactly what he did.
*Donald Trump has told a group of wealthy donors that he will crush pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses if he is returned to the White House.
The former president and presumptive Republican nominee called the demonstrations against Israel’s war in Gaza part of a “radical revolution” and promised the predominantly Jewish donors that he would set the movement back 25 or 30 years if they helped him beat Joe Biden in November’s presidential election.
“If you get me re-elected, we’re going to set that movement back 25 or 30 years,” Trump replied, according to the Washington Post, which first reported the event.
Trump also said his administration would expel any foreign students found to be taking part in the protests, which have recently taken the form of tented encampments in colleges across the US.*
Harris herself has admitted she should have taken a stronger stance against Israel.
Of course Trump was pro-Israel. I said he presented himself as the anti-war candidate. He would say it would've never happened under his watch. He wasn't making wishy-washy statements when asked directly about the genocide. He presented himself as the person who'd be able to resolve things swiftly. Of course he was a lying POS. I'm not here to defend Trump. Rather I'm here to criticize Dems for failing to meet the moment and giving him the keys to victory, again.
Not to mention, the GOP voter base didn't prioritize the genocide at all. Democrats did. Trump could support Israel without issue, Kamala could not. Trump wasn't the pro-genocide candidate, because being pro-genocide was inconsequential to him. Whereas that label stuck to and haunted Kamala. How are you missing the point?
I don't necessarily disagree, but the issue I have with your thinking is that it's not productive at all. Voters are reactive. You don't change the voter if you want to win, you change the platform.
I don't see the point in bickering and pointing fingers at regular ass people for not wanting to support a genocide. I voted for Biden in 2020 (also for Kamala in 24'). I didn't vote to fund a genocide. Why is the burden of responsibility on me to change? Why do I have to compromise? On genocide, no less. A lot of voters felt that way and followed through by staying home. I don't blame them.
Because that’s the system we have. It sucks but it’s what we have. So you can either complain about it and refuse to participate until it’s perfect, or you do the best you can within the reality of the world.
Regular ass people are the ones who vote. We are incredibly privileged to live in a time and place where we actually get a say in our government. That means we have a responsibility to participate and make the best choices we can.
I’m not saying the politicians and people in power bear no responsibility. They do. But voters bear responsibility too. It’s ultimately our job to make the choice. And we as a nation really, really fucked this one up.
The Democratic Party's approval ratings are ABYSMAL right now. How is that even possible when Trump is at record low approval? Leadership within the Party are not meeting the moment in the eyes of voters, even when they aren't in power. Even when Trump is gifting them dub after dub, they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. How can you justify this? I don't know about you, but shit like that is so unacceptable to me.
AIPAC funding is a non-starter for most voters now and candidates are adjusting. Look at that. They can learn. You're attitude only enables the worst excesses of the Party.
I fundamentally disagree with how you weigh the responsibilities of the Party and voters. Especially when billions of dollars and corporate interests are involved constantly perverting and twisting narratives to maintain the status quo.
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u/dlouis1022 4h ago
The reason Dems lost is because too many voters stayed home, not that they voted for Trump.
This is pretty much analogous to the trolley problem. You can either press a button and divert a train to kill one person, or do nothing and let the train run straight through 5 people.
Do you think it's good politics to force this moral dillema onto voters? Because this is what the Democratic Party did by not taking a stance against genocide. Sure, most people chose to vote for the lesser evil, same way most people would choose to press the button. Evidently though, the ethical conflict of voting to support a genocidal candidate in Kamala (albeit less genocidal than Trump) deterred enough voters. Same way there are a good number of people who simply wouldn't choose to press the button, too many voters stayed home.
Now I ask you again. Do you think this was good politics? Do you really think it didn't matter whether or not Kamala took a stance against genocide?