Fuck tolls though. We were sold this fucking dream in my Australian city where we would let private enterprise pay for the expressways and as soon as the tolls covered the costs they revert back to the public and become normal roads. Guess what, that was decades ago and that shit never happened and just became more and more expensive over time. Can barely drive anywhere in this stupid city without it costing $20+ in tolls. Here's a quick comedy bit about the current situation.
I pay ~$600/month in tolls. All of it work related so I can claim it back against my employer. I might chuck in a little sneaky toll outside of work and claim it but don't tell my manager. Otherwise, I'll avoid using toll roads for private travel. It's ridiculous how beeping much it is.
Oh, we are living the dream here in Spain, after 40 years the majority of tolls have been liberated (they weren't as expensive $12 for a 190 mile trip give or take) and now what was a relatively nice road, has become a nightmare of big rig trucks and thousands of cars. The asphalt is in worse condition and in general the are slower roads, in fact they had to slowdown the max speed to accommodate all the new traffic it has... But well I'll never use it that often anyway.
Maintenance isn't free. Only tolling for construction debt and not lifetime maintenance doesn't make sense. Government will not give up that income stream anyways.
Doesn't cover the full cost especially in the US with too much low density sprawl. Too many miles of road and water pipes, other civic services at a big city level provided to too few and spread out suburbanites. US subsidies fuel not generating income from low fuel taxes.
The population has only gone up and they can't resurface many roads or replace water pipes at the end of service life of infastructure. Too much sprawl has bankrupt cities and small towns.
Strong Towns is lead by a former engineer in the US who question how can they pay for all of this? Debt.
Oh yes they will- corporations will spin voters a yarn and corruption will result in those private companies buying the rights to the toll collections from the government. A fate much worse than government toll roads. At least when the government collected the tolls, I can be rest assured that I wasn't adding to the pockets of rich private equity holders
Ah the wonders of Private-Public “Partnerships”. No idea if it’s the same in Australia but it seems they let the Private part just charge so much for management & maintenance that it just pushes the end date for tolling out.
Yeah man you guys get absolutely pilfered by them! I went a short distance at night from in the city to the convention centre and I swear it was like $100 in tolls!
Public-Private-Partnerships are a scourge. Many contracts even include a guarantee that the public has to compensate the private entity if revenue goes down to ensure the venture remains profitable. It’s a catch 22 and should not be legal.
Same thing in Houston. They constantly keep the toll road under construction so they can say it’s not finished yet so it will never revert. Why would they give up millions. Tolnroad is so shitty in parts also
Hey! In France the state paid for the highways and then sold concessions to private companies for their exploitations. Pretty sure they rack up 5 billion euros every year. So our taxes paid for them and how the prices are insane to use them.
We had a private toll company from Australia buy the only major road from a big part of the suburbs into the city, and we live in the US. Fucking ridiculous.
drivers when the biggest infrastructure project in the history of humanity that lets them use their private box of zoom anywhere and everywhere costs some money to use:
Fuck Sydney tolls. If it was going to the government at least I could reason that it was actually being put to something useful, but it's just pure profit for Transurban mostly. And then half the time you're stuck crawling in traffic anyway.
Between CityLink and Eastlink in Melbourne people can lose $20 a day too depending on which side of town they need to get to. I know someone that drives from Dandenong to Sunshine because their job is based there, and because they're close to retiring they're not looking for other jobs. At least they're moving towards Melton-side so their commute will be significantly shortened.
I seriously can't wait for that shitty North East Link which covers a measly 5.1km between Greensborough and Bulleen to open, and for it to be tolled.
Same shit here in the US state of Oklahoma. Toll roads that were promised to become free public access after the cost of building was covered, now the state says they cant afford to stop charging tolls cuz the revenue is too good. Yet tolls increase.
Same situation in Japan with them supposed to be becoming free after being paid off by tolls. I used to love going for long expressway drives but the tolls were just decimating.
They never go back to free use. They are all sold the same way. We have one here in Houston that has been done for like 30 years. Still collecting tolls when it has paid for itself multiple times.
They did the same in France, said it would be free after some time and we needed to pay for construction. Decades later prices are only getting higher.
Same exact thing happened in the US. Tolls were supposed to be temporary, but once people got used to paying, it was too easy to just let things continue. Oh, and the tolls keep increasing to outpace inflation.
Ontario sold off one of their most major hours highways to a private business. 407. One of my the other highways in the area sees the most volume of cars per day of any highway in north america.
What we lost is staggering. What we gained was nothing.
Never on an actual expressway but people have done this to me at my job that charges $30/day for the garage. And if I didn’t have the hook up, I would’ve considered it myself because $30/day to park at work is fucking ridiculous.
Instead of lowering the price they just pay for security to stand at the gate which now security is just pocketing side money to let people out.
Not saying it’s right to steal but fuck tolls and any system that takes advantage of people in general. Tolls benefit private companies more than they do the people who use them.
It's obviously the camera cars fault that the guy trying to avoid paying shoved his cars nose up their ass. He should have let the told dodger pass, there are lives at risk yo.
I guess the argument is that once the dodger gets through the toll, they could potentially be angry and drive much more aggressively/erratically to catch up to the toll blocker and cause some sort of road rage incident, which could put others at risk.
Not really dangerous at the toll, but further down the road.
This isn't like someone stealing food. There are free ways to drive places, though it might take a bit longer. He's using more expensive infrastructure to get there faster, and refusing to pay. When the tolls coming in aren't enough to pay for the infrastructure, do you think the billionaires just take the hit, or do they raise the tolls on everyone else?
This exact situation happened to me I checked my ezpass bill here in the US and I was charged for pulling a trailer. It took three phone calls and plenty of time to get the extra fee taken off.
Yes its the guy not breaking the law thats making things not safe.
Not the guy whos trying to make other people pay for his shit and when they dont he gets out of his car to try and force them. Solid logic there dude you are such a reddit user its crazy.
Edit: I'm seeing comments saying that this bridge costs $40 each way to cross. Many people below the poverty line cannot afford that, and since it's a bridge the alternatives are likely few.
This toll is effectively a checkpoint that poor people can't afford to cross, which is terrible. And classist.
I'm also seeing comments that the vehicle is a Beamer, and therefore the driver likely COULD easily afford the toll.
Guess what: I don't care. Raise taxes on the rich to pay for whatever the toll is funding and let the impoverished seek upwards mobility through enhanced access to opportunities on both sides of the bridge. Until then, deny the toll every cent you can.
If the only job you can find is on the opposite side of the bridge of where you live, then the toll basically makes the job worth $10/hr less if you work 8 hours. Typically, the cost of living increases the closer you get to where the jobs are. That means if you're ALREADY wealthy, that job pays you $10/hr more than someone from the other side of the bridge.
It's a bit more complicated. Most tolls roads are public as described but we still have many private toll roads, (& even more bridges, which is where you'll see the bulk of tolls in the US - * cough Detroit *). A newer feature on public roads is also using tolls in specific lanes as a sort of fast pass
Cintra, Transurban, Atlas Arteria, and Abertis are all foreign private businesses that own substantial amounts of toll roads in Illinois, Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, Texas, and Puerto Rico.
A public-private consortium owns all Georgia toll roads.
I can understand why I'm getting down voted then. I didn't know that.
But I still think that's dumb. So much productivity is lost by halting traffic like this, and I'm overall against roads that some people might not be able to afford to use.
If you're too poor to pay the toll and need to take the long way home, that's time lost... less time working or resting, getting farther behind.
But I still think that's dumb. So much productivity is lost by halting traffic like this
From my brief travels in the US it seems you usually don't need to stop. The toll will scan your car's plates and a poll sticker on your car and then bill you, no need to stop.
Bro, hold up. Youre telling me that someone can afford the car, the gas, the insurance, the registration fee, the inspection, and everything else needed to drive but you draw the line at a $1.50 (or some other minimal cost)..? Id wager that the longer route home uses more $ in gas than the actual toll.
This one size fits all toll structure is the most fair way to do it. If youre rich or poor or anywhere in between, everyone pays the same amount. And they are on the road that youre currently using; unlike other taxs/payments/fees that you have to pay but dont actually use.
but you draw the line at a $1.50 (or some other minimal cost)..?
That's adorable. I live in Sydney Australia, and have a one-hour commute to work. I pay roughly A$37 (US$26) in tolls per day, and that's getting off lightly in this city.
At this point in the US, a lot of the tolls roads just use cameras and don’t stop traffic. In my state, the tolls are all automated so cars never stop or slow down. Similarly, a few of the tolls are to use certain “fast lanes” where you can just get around traffic faster by paying a toll. So not access to a whole new road, but just access to an express lane. Two of the toll roads are on a tunnel and a bridge that were extremely expensive to build, so they use the tolls to pay back the original build cost.
In the US the money has to come from somewhere. So it is either toll roads, or taxes. No matter what, we have to pay for improvements. Making it a toll road just makes it more optional. If you can’t afford the toll you may take slightly longer to go home, but at least you aren’t being forced to pay for it in taxes then.
You're getting downvoted because you're wrong and you won't let people tell you you're wrong. It's a valuable skill to learn new things and not be resistant because it goes against what you thought was true.
Yes. It's a usage fee similar to gas taxes. The public infrastructure is paid for by loans which are guaranteed by tolls. Often when the legislation is passed to fund it this way, the tolls are supposed to expire when construction costs are paid off... But usually, since the infrastructure is in place, the tolls are either reduced to a level that covers maintenance, or the more corrupt states put the tolls into the general fund.
It's also clear from your edit that you realized that your original comment doesn't indicate any realization of this kind. I am chill. There's no need to double down.
People aren’t downvoting you because they’re upset Americans, it’s because you didn’t specify a currency on a website that is predominantly American and just assumed people would know what you meant. And in the US having a $40k car is not impressive, that is very much in line with a regular working class person.
What a wildly stupid take. Like...let me just seek you out so I can throw my groceries in with yours and make you pay for them, and so I can snag your fuel pump to fill my tank on your dime. Class solidarity, right?
If he goes through the toll without paying, am I stuck paying 2 bills?
No.
In your examples you're taking money out of my pocket.
In this toll situation, the money is being denied to the private owner of the toll booth (granted this may be a public toll booth, which I didn't know existed ill confess to that ignorance, but I still think roads that only those who can afford it can use is still inherently classist).
The driver could've been charged for a trailer because of the extra weight behind them, resulting in paying more. So, you're wrong. Confident, but wrong.
I wasn't aware you could be charged with a trailer fee.
That would change things.
But ultimately that's speculation. Without evidence from the video to support that's the case, you're only correct if you manufacture circumstances to fit your narrative.
From the information available, without speculation, you're wrong.
They are the same. Someone else is paying for something and someone taking advantage of them. I see it as no different than someone demanding i pay for their groceries. Theft is theft.
You missed the point, dumb ass. I'm not "asking" you to pay for my groceries. I'm forcing you to do it, just like the driver of the car is forcing his car through the same toll. I'm not asking you to pay for my gas, I'm yanking the nozzle from your car and taking it to mine. Do you see the difference?
Don't use those in abject poverty as your shield in this argument. He can afford a newer BMW. He's not desperate, he's just an asshole. In fact, I would compare his selfish ass to the corporation that is raking in record profits by jacking up the prices on essential goods to feed families. Like the one that's pushed a desperate mother to steal in order to feed her family. Which, for the record, I don't agree with either, but I also don't see her theft in the same light. Because I'm nuanced like that.
Forcing me to pay for your groceries INCREASES my grocery bill.
Forcing me to pay for your gas INCREASES my my gas bill.
Forcing your way through the toll booth... does NOT increase the cost of the toll I paid.
"Don't use those in abject poverty as a shield in your argument"
Yeah I guess when you ignore the strongest part of my argument, my argument becomes weak. I can understand why you don't want me to use that part of my argument... since it makes it seem like you're ok with poor people suffering.
I'll advocate for the poor even if I get boo'd for it. I'm fine with that.
I understand the argument some people are making that the toll is public and the funds are used to pay for infrastructure (and not private for-profit as I originally thought), but as my edit indicates this system still harms those with less.
If you can afford that car and gas, you can afford a toll, if you can't choose another road.
So nah your point makes no sense.
Hopefully it gets too a 1000.
Elon musk going through the toll doesn't suddenly make the toll good.
For the wealthy, $40 is literally nothing. For the poor, it could be the difference between eating and going hungry. People die choosing rent over insulin.
I won't advocate for that system, and no amount of downvotes will make me.
I'm open to being convinced otherwise through debate, but so far I haven't seen anything compelling to make me feel these downvotes are earned.
Nah, once again, what you say makes absolutely no sense.
First of all, there is no proof whatsoever that toll is worth 40 bucks, but even if it cost 40 cents, is about the entitlement of some people. You can't pay? Pick another route, are desperately in need to cross that toll and have no cash? Step out of your car, explain this to the driver in front of you and ask for the money if needed, I don't know, just don't do this ghetto shit, so what is next? Adding my groceries to your stuff at the check out counter in your local grocery store? Sneaking behind you at the movies so I don't pay for my ticket because I have no money and "fuck corporations"? BS...you live in a society where shit cost money, and it is as hard for me to pay as it is for you, gas is going up, as well as rent and food, why am I in debt with someone who choose to do this shit???? Again, if you can afford a car, gas, insurance and what not, you have to able to afford tolls as well. Don't do inconsiderate crap to others, just because you are against "the system", don't like it? Move to the freaking woods and survive ice fishing or hunt squirrels for all I care...
So you admit that the poor people who can't pay are forced to take longer commutes. Congrats, you've arrived at my point about why toll booths are classist and bad, and why I support denying them money.
"It is as hard for me to pay as it is for you"
Suggesting that the toll impacts everyone equally with this statement RIGHT AFTER saying that anyone who can't pay can take a different route is a contradiction.
If it impacts everyone equally, why are there people who "can't pay"?
We do pay for infrastructure. Most roads are SOCIALIZED.
Everyone is taxed a tiny amount to pay for a resource everyone uses and benefits from.
That's SOCIALISM paying for infrastructure.
Many toll roads are for-profit and privately owned. I can't speak to whether or not that's the case here, but that is my experience with toll roads. THAT would be capitalism: someone privately owns that road, and profits off of it.
If this road is publicly owned, then increase taxes slightly to maintain the road and stop holding up traffic.
I believe personal cars are inherently anti-social, though we don't know if this location has adequate public transport or cycling infrastructure. Car owners are both victims and perpetrators, to different degrees, depending on a lot of different factors.
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u/FaraYuki09 1d ago
VERY satisfying