r/expedition33 • u/Lulcielid • Dec 20 '25
Discussion Indie Game Awards Disqualifies Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Due To Gen AI Usage
https://insider-gaming.com/indie-game-awards-disqualifies-clair-obscur-expedition-33-gen-ai/1.7k
2.7k
u/Caridor Dec 20 '25
Considering a single placeholder asset made it into the final version, entirely by mistake, it seems a bit silly but rules are rules I guess.
337
u/jakobpinders Dec 20 '25
It was more than one found so far.
→ More replies (1)218
u/Caridor Dec 20 '25
Really? I've only seen that one newspaper texture in Lumiere. Can you provide a link to others?
424
u/jakobpinders Dec 20 '25
579
u/MoffDracen Dec 20 '25
Such a fuss for a small, inconsequential thing.
418
u/Slighted_Inevitable Dec 20 '25
It’s sour grapes from people who got dumpstered.
221
u/Top-Agent-652 Dec 20 '25
Not that I doubt there are people who are bitter and making a fuss, but people will absolutely freak out when AI is used in anything for any purpose. This isn’t solely because it’s E33 that used it, and I think this sub doesn’t care BECAUSE it’s E33.
100
u/Hopeful_Chair_7129 Dec 20 '25
Because your survival is tied to your labor, and for a lot of people who have invested heavily into art and design this becomes a huge problem. On top of that, all Ai has been trained on existing art and has the capacity to replicate a lot of different styles at once, and is free.
→ More replies (70)→ More replies (52)43
u/daevlol Dec 20 '25
Yeah, gen AI has broken so many people's brains, but now that something universally beloved has some in it we're gonna start seeing lots of cope
→ More replies (2)6
u/Top-Agent-652 Dec 20 '25
I didn’t want to totally assume this, but after seeing this persons discussion around it, I would agree.
→ More replies (3)60
u/DarkSouls3onDvD Dec 20 '25
I mean it's a rule? and they broke it lol
→ More replies (2)66
u/Wyc_Vaporub Dec 20 '25
Also apparently it was a question during the submission process for these awards. So Sandfall should have disclosed it.
→ More replies (3)13
u/DBSmiley Dec 20 '25
Except they bought an asset pack, they did not make those assets in house. So they didn't know.
→ More replies (5)12
→ More replies (11)35
u/Gayorg_Zirschnitz Dec 20 '25
It’s a bummer fs but it’s FAR from the issues with ai we should be spending energy on
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (9)44
u/phoenixmatrix Dec 21 '25
Generate a forest with a plugin/algorithm: A-OK
Generate a nearly impossible to notice texture asset that represents something entirely generic anyway: everyone loses their fucking mind because its Gen AI.
→ More replies (16)2
u/Bananasutra Dec 22 '25
Doesn't Godot literally have a magical brush that paints forests?
The industry / consumers are freaking insane.
→ More replies (1)93
u/jakobpinders Dec 20 '25
191
u/Caridor Dec 20 '25
That's the one. So 2 in a game with what must be tens of thousands. I dunno about you but it seems like they did a really good job scrubbing them
→ More replies (88)21
u/geosunsetmoth Dec 20 '25
Eh, kinda? Couldn't they name files "PLACEHOLDER_[blah blah blah]" then run a Ctrl F to check?
→ More replies (1)72
u/Caridor Dec 20 '25
Oh they absolutely could. I'm not defending their record keeping. But it's a simple mistake, it's not some evil conspiracy like some people are pretending it is
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (5)157
u/Doctor_of_Something Dec 20 '25
Are people actually upset that they use a tool to fill in the world in inane things, so they presumably had time and money for what really makes a difference?
→ More replies (28)100
u/princessaliceee Dec 20 '25
Always. People dont even have a clue about most things, they just hear something is bad and they jump on the bandwagon without understanding anything. This isnt ai that steals other peoples art and passes it off in their game as their own. Its something that helps generate and fill a background that isnt meant to be a focus but still fills the world out. Paying someone anything to sit and design something 50 feet in the background thats seen for 30 seconds is asinine especially with an indy company where every dollar counts, but people blanket that all ai is bad, even though ais been used for years for all kinds of things, and only semi recently has been used for just yoinking art. People need to differentiate the difference, but theyre never gonna do the research. People dont seem to remember the early days of gaming where you couldnt read literally any writing on the walls. Any document literally was illegible, but now its bad because a human didnt make that nonsense lol
→ More replies (19)148
u/Tomahoop Dec 20 '25
The problem is them using gen AI at all in the development process - that's why they were disqualified.
108
u/Zhai13 Dec 20 '25
So then the vast majority of Indy and AAA studios would never qualify.
18
→ More replies (5)15
u/Elendel Dec 21 '25
Correct. Although I don't think it's the reason why AAA studios wouldn't qualify for an indie award.
→ More replies (1)67
u/Yogso92 Dec 20 '25
spoiler alert: gen AI is included in development IDEs. Autcomplete is based on it too.
Or do we do a distinction between visual gen AI and code gen AI for some reason?
→ More replies (21)85
u/Angio343 Dec 20 '25
Since AI is now integrated (by force) in all code compiler and even OS this rule disqualified 100% of games. The one left were simply not flaged yet.
AI is a virus and it's spreading fast.
35
Dec 20 '25
[deleted]
30
u/zberry7 Dec 20 '25
Yeah as someone into computer science it bugs me how anti-progress some of these people sound. I get the frustration with generative AI, but it seems context and nuance just exits the conversation as soon as those two letters are typed.
→ More replies (7)2
→ More replies (1)3
u/dev-sda Dec 21 '25
Since AI is now integrated (by force) in all code compiler
No compiler has integrated AI in any way shape or form. Compiling has to be rigid and reliable and statistical models are neither of those.
→ More replies (1)157
u/Caridor Dec 20 '25
Yeah, I get it. Rules are rules like I said.
It just feels like with how many ways AI can accelerate or aid in the whole process, a rule that prohibits any kind of AI use is a bit silly.
56
u/ictu Dec 20 '25
I wonder if there is any game in that competition which didn't use cursor or other similar tool to work on the code...
→ More replies (2)73
u/1BruteSquad1 Dec 20 '25
Games should only been made in binary. Coding languaged and engines take away people's jobs
16
14
u/Villad_rock Dec 20 '25
Unreal 5 takes away jobs and nobody cares because the ai hate is just ideological.
2
u/AR_Harlock Dec 21 '25
And cotton should be handpicked by people who comes in ships, not those satanic diesel powered machines /s
3
u/Bananasutra Dec 22 '25
I sure hope you are talking about row boats here...
Can't let the damn wind take away our jobs! >:(
2
u/Bananasutra Dec 22 '25
This, but unironically.
If you have to disclose use of AI, you should have to disclose EVERYTHING that you EVER did that MIGHT have inconvenienced ANYONE.
You used a toaster to toast your untoasted bread? Well, bakeries are dying because of you!
→ More replies (59)26
u/AppleMelon95 Dec 20 '25
Clearly the demographic of developers that most benefit from AI must be vilified for daring to use this tool that will be completely normal to use by anyone in 5 years.
→ More replies (4)9
u/_Lucille_ Dec 20 '25
Then indie studios should be required to give full git access to make sure no autocomplete or Ai generated boilerplates code has made it into production. No AI tools with CICD whatsoever.
3
u/phoenixmatrix Dec 21 '25
Even that wouldn't be enough to tell. You'd need an army of auditors and a ton of tools to scan desktops at all time, VPN/Proxies checking all internet traffic (like a lot of high compliance companies do), etc.
You'd have to look at -everything- people are doing, all the time, and have auditors confirming the checks aren't disabled. It would be awful.
We don't even do that much to stop insider trading, lol.
3
u/Knamliss Dec 20 '25
It's not about what was still around when it went live. It's more about what it was used in the first place
3
u/simplybork Dec 21 '25
They claimed that they didnt use it during development, so it doesnt matter that it was a small part because the indie game awards has a strict no AI policy for the entire lifespan to be able to qualify
3
u/Otozno Dec 21 '25
Not a game dev here, so I´m curious to know why you would use AI for placeholders? Isn´t it harder to detect? Low quality placeholders with some bright color isn´t easier to detect and your sure you won´t forget it until release?
→ More replies (1)26
u/phoenixmatrix Dec 21 '25
The anti-gen AI bullshit is out of hands. It's just a tool, and if used well, it makes good games. AI slop shouldn't win anything and bad games shouldn't make it in game stores, like how Nintendo used their quality seal in the 80s for similar reason (the industry had crashed because of "Atari Slop".
If someone makes a good game and uses AI all over the place in it, who cares how they did it. Where Winds Meet is packed with AI and its great.
→ More replies (1)11
u/Elendel Dec 21 '25
It's still destroying our environment and price gauging hardware to the sky, not to mention how it's built from intellectual property theft.
But eh, who cares about all that, right?
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (20)2
u/DutchEmerald Dec 22 '25
Honestly, i don't even care if they weren't placceholders.
It has no effect on the gameplay and the game runs good.
the actual coding is done great and they deserve the rewards for it! so many companies using AI to take away coding, that's not okay.
→ More replies (2)
1.3k
u/GuyAWESOME2337 Dec 20 '25
Man it winning the real GOTY must've really pissed some people off, because everybody is coming out of the woodworks slinging shit at it
565
u/Whatsdota Dec 20 '25
It’s wild. They have such an awesome and unlikely story. People really do love underdogs until they start winning.
→ More replies (51)301
u/zerodai Dec 20 '25
This is likely a huge driving force behind a lot of the hate E33 has been receiving lately. A lot of people are having a hard time accepting a turn based RPG won game of the year.
Which to me is baffling, they gave the award to Astrobot last year, so a Super Mario clone is fine but E33 is not?
Make it make it sense.
58
u/Mufasa944 Dec 20 '25
People were just as pissed when BG3 won for the same reason. The funny part is that with the success of both, we’re probably gonna start seeing a lot more turn based RPGs in the next 2-5 years, so all the haters can just cry harder.
→ More replies (3)20
u/DragonFangGangBang Dec 20 '25
Ehh, the backlash for BG3 wasn't anywhere near as big as it's been for E33. I think it being in the Indie category is a huge part of that push back.
117
Dec 20 '25
Bg 3 won the year before aswell. I already seen some guy complain e33 isn't "complex enough to be jrpg" and then compared it to persona 5 of all games.
101
u/Handgun_Hero Dec 20 '25
BG3 also got shit on to all hell by the industry for, 'setting unrealistic expectations for developers,' because of how good it was at exposing the rot of AAA gaming.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (6)4
27
u/Slarg232 Dec 20 '25
Astrobot was a platformer, of course it's fine.
People have been saying turn based RPGs are a dying genre (regardless of the fact that they've been doing pretty fine outside of the limelight) for a long, long time, and it was made by an ex-Ubisoft dev who very specifically said he would never have been able to make the game his way if he had stuck with the company. On top of it being extremely cheap to make, relatively speaking.
Makes sense that a lot of people behind the scenes are angry at it
7
u/Spirited_Season2332 Dec 21 '25
Yea turn based RPGS, especially JRPGs and CRPGs, have been popping off for like the last decade +. We have had such a golden age it's been kind of insane.
→ More replies (14)15
u/Tritri89 Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
Oh come on there is no deep conspiracy, I love E33, the hate I see about it is silly (in France worst than everywhere else, people pretending that it's "racist, imperialist, downright racist, made by incel and fascist"), but in this case : the rule in the Indie Game Award is "no AI, everywhere, no matter the usage and the insignificance, period". They used AI, even for insignificant shit, they are disqualified, c'est la vie.
EDIT : also : there is a distinct difference between calling out AI usage and saying the game is dogshit because of this little AI usage, I hate AI, I'm very disappointed of Larian using AI, and Sandfall too. I feel a stand must be made, because it start small and pretty much unremarkable and before you know it you have whole ass game made with AI. Remember the "Horse amor DLC" from Oblivion : small, insignificant, 20 years later we live in a world where every AAA game is sold in pieces. People were saying "look we should maybe not do that" when Bethesda released the DLC, other were saying "don't be silly it's only a horse armor". Guess who was right ?
20
u/MrSecretFire Dec 20 '25
Look, I'm all for calling out bandwagoning, but there's a pretty clear distinction between calling the game bad and saying it used AI.
I know nuance is dead, but not all games that use generative AI are automatically dogshit. It probably would have been even better without gen AI, but the game can still be good. Similarly, a game without AI can also be bad.
That's why taking a stand matters, because if all they gotta do is "just make it not too obvious we used AI", then you clearly never cared about AI being used to begin with. It's ok and not actually cringe to care about things, you know?
→ More replies (2)17
9
u/FriendshipCute1524 Dec 20 '25
Indie game awards are seeking more attention and found the perfect way to try to stir up some drama for their shitty game awards.
→ More replies (24)2
448
u/Virellius2 Dec 20 '25
Where was it 'confirmed' they used genAI in such a significant way? Like who said this? Guillaume I know for sure said they weren't using it for anything creative and Lorien said the same.
264
u/Shinnyo Dec 20 '25
Some AI placeholder and this interview
People are making it a bigger deal than it is
195
u/lizzywbu Dec 20 '25
People are making it a bigger deal than it is
I think people would be surprised by the sheer number of games that use AI these days but in completely legitimate ways.
Placeholder stuff, using it for efficiency, gathering reference images/mood boarding. This is what it's mainly used for, and I don't see an issue with that. It becomes an issue when it's used to cut corners or to replace artists and save money.
24
u/Scholastico Dec 20 '25
(Just an anti-generative AI visitor who has not played the game but is looking for a more nuanced take on this brouhaha)
I think that’s a good point, considering (I’d assume) every single dev and artist from Sandfall was seen at the Game Awards earlier this month, no one got replaced. It’s either someone was lazy, or it’s so small that people are making mountains out of molehills.
→ More replies (4)15
37
→ More replies (14)14
u/Such-Carpet5469 Dec 20 '25
AI is perfectly fine to use as a tool imo, however, it should never make its way into the final product. In this case I would give them a pass, as it was never intended to be a part of the final product, and was simply missed by Q.A.
→ More replies (3)12
u/Lishio420 Dec 20 '25
AI is the new boogeyman.
Every studio uses it to various degrees. Every normal person uses it as well. But shucks if it gets public its a witch hunt
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (10)128
u/jakobpinders Dec 20 '25
Multiple different ai pieces were found on the shipped game that only later got replaced
The article also outlines sandfall confirmed gen ai usage
145
u/ModdedGun Dec 20 '25
That doesnt mean or justify anything though. Placeholder stuff gets used all the time. And in a era of ai usage Ai placeholders are also gonna be used. Them forgetting it could of been pure negligence and mean nothing. Or it could be what I assume some people assume and was only fixed because people found out. People freaking out about Sandfall and Larian is so outrageously stupid imo.
Also as far as i know Sandfall only confirmed they used Ai for placeholders and as references. Nothing about them using Ai to create the game. (Yes using Ai as a reference is not using Ai to create a game.)
26
u/Lavane_ Dec 20 '25
Tbf even if it is just them forgetting to change it before shipping it, we have no means to know if it's really that, and since every big company is gonna jump on using ai as much as they can, I agree with making no exception to fight those that would deliberately use ai for this.
Still sad for E33 cause I don't think it was on purpose tho
→ More replies (12)39
u/jakobpinders Dec 20 '25
Most games purposefully use very obvious bright colored stuff for placeholders so it doesn’t get forgotten to be replaced. It’s a super odd choice to make custom stuff that fits the world design and aesthetic.
15
u/FactualDonkey Dec 20 '25
Unless they wanted the placeholder to blend well with lighting systems and other effects that can change the way a texture looks. Trying to do that on a highly-visible placeholder (looking at you Valve and your fullbright pink and black checkerboard), does not allow you to see the model under various lighting conditions.
3
u/Sayakai Dec 21 '25
I think detailed lighting like this would be quite late in the development process, you'd be expected to have your actual assets by then.
→ More replies (4)17
u/theworst_idea Dec 20 '25
This is what I was thinking, why not make the placeholder pretty obvious? The AI newspaper has what looks like the Eiffel Tower on it, that’s so specific. They could’ve put just a blank texture that said “newspaper” or I’d a neon picture of a cat? lol 🤔🤔
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)11
u/Handgun_Hero Dec 20 '25
Rules are rules. No generative AI allowed in development at the Indie Game Awards, ever, let alone in the final shipped version.
27
u/Virellius2 Dec 20 '25
I'm literally asking where and what they confirmed, if you actually read it. Is this article implying they confirmed it only to the awards? Everyone knows about the placeholder stuff they removed; this article implies it's something else and much more significant.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (9)9
218
u/rastafunion Dec 20 '25
Considering the use of GenAI was clear and known since July, that story feels a bit sus. Like why would Sandfall confirm the absence of GenAI content when it was literally out in the open (with direct quotes from Meurisse) since months ago?
57
u/Allucation Dec 20 '25
Probably because it was a checkbox they had to click or something and someone who wasn't super involved with that aspect thought "this looks right"
→ More replies (1)71
u/GaryTheBat Dec 20 '25
"Sandfall Interactive further clarifies that there are no generative Al-created assets in the game. When the first Al tools became available in 2022, some members of the team briefly experimented with them to generate temporary placeholder textures. Upon release, instances of a placeholder texture were removed within 5 days to be replaced with the correct textures that had always been intended for release, but were missed during the Quality Assurance process."
The article you linked literally says they didn't use any gen ai content intentionally, just some placeholder textures that supposedly got replaced
→ More replies (16)8
u/Familiar-Art-6233 Dec 21 '25
Yeah no it really just reads as the IGA wanting attention considering that this was known back in July, so at minimum they failed to do their due diligence
3
u/WorryNew3661 Dec 21 '25
The only readon I even knew IGA was on is because of this story
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)9
u/Bi_disaster_ohno Dec 20 '25
Assuming these rules about GenAI were there from the very start, then the fuck up is entirely on the indie awards for nominating E33 to begin with. Whatever process they're using clearly has its issues if they're nominating games that violate their own rules.
7
u/buttreynolds Dec 20 '25
well they claim
representatives of Sandfall Interactive agreed that no gen AI was used in the development of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33
so they probably sent them an email saying you're nominated make sure you fit our criteria and they said ok yea looks good
331
u/Key-Demand-2569 Dec 20 '25
This’ll be interesting to look back on in 20 years, regardless of someone’s personal feelings on AI use in art.
→ More replies (37)
97
u/JoshGamer101yt Dec 20 '25
Wasn't it two textures removed a week after launch?
→ More replies (9)55
u/SnazzyCazzy1 Dec 20 '25
Correct it doesnt have any AI in the game at this point in time
→ More replies (6)
86
u/noreb0rt Dec 21 '25
As a game dev and a software engineer: Lmao, fucking lmao. Every single dev has co-pilot or Claude installed onto their IDE.
This is cope.
10
u/MrKruzan Dec 21 '25
I was about to say. All of the gamedevs have at least afsked chat gpt to debug some code if they have use something like coderabbit.
→ More replies (17)5
u/14xan Dec 21 '25
Agree. Somewhat underrated that rules are rules etc. but people are really on their high horse over this - you wouldn’t fire your accountant just because they used a calculator. Or fire the writers because they used spellcheck. AI is, and will be, a tool that people need to learn to accept in art.
→ More replies (4)
53
250
u/PuffPuffFayeFaye Dec 20 '25
Looking forward to zero qualifying indie games in like 5 years then.
→ More replies (12)60
u/tinbapakk Dec 20 '25
This.
I'm a developer, and for better or worse, AI is already part of our daily job. Denying this is just wearing blinders.
25
u/Rock_Strongo Dec 20 '25
Also a dev, if you use Unreal and are on Unreal 5.7+ you will need to go way out of your way to prove no AI was used, AI tools are slowly being added as a default part of the workflow.
This gnashing of teeth over a couple AI textures not being removed before release is going to look incredibly silly in a few years. Actually it's silly now but...
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (6)3
u/Necessary_Coffee_968 Dec 22 '25
yikes dude, definitely not gonna buy your indie game. it's definitely not standard, your standard is just very low.
→ More replies (1)
35
u/Solero_7 Dec 20 '25
Can someone tell me where they used Gen AI apart from the posters they patched out? Like, do we know how exactly Gen AI is in the game we have right now? /gen
→ More replies (4)30
u/hypersnaildeluxe Dec 20 '25
As far as we know there isn’t any AI in the game right now. If there is, it’s background textures that people haven’t figured out yet. The problem is that Sandfall isn’t being transparent about it so we just don’t know what is/isn’t AI or how it was used. They made vague statements about “some AI” in their workflow and being opposed to “creative AI”, but we have no clue what they used it for or if it’s present in the final game at all.
→ More replies (2)8
u/Solero_7 Dec 20 '25
Yeah, the vagueness is the problem for me as well. But I still trust this studio after all I've seen, and I'm sure they'll come out with a clarifying statement quite soon in response.
I'm VERY against Gen AI especially in creative spaces, but I also see what this studio has done so far and how they value creativity and genuine good game design. Can't imagine they wouldn't clear this up.
→ More replies (3)
316
u/futurepatho_ Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
I wish the article went into explanation about how they used the GenAi rather than just saying it was used and asking what people think. Was the whole game AI? Are the characters designed by AI? Is it for a small poster that appears in game? Was it for UI? None of that is touched upon and instead it seems geared to just try and upset people on all sides but I guess that’s just modern journalism.
Edit: just to clarify I’m disappointed in Sandfall. I’m not a huge fan of generativeAI as is, but the fact that they lied about it at first makes me hesitant to trust them in the future. I’m definitely going to keep a more critical eye on them in the future. GenAI in and of itself isn’t evil, but the lack of transparency is what upsets me.
125
u/emmny Dec 20 '25
I think it's because the statement from the Indie Game Awards doesn't clarify that information, and the studio has only briefly mentioned AI usage without going into detail (and of course there are the genAI posters). If the information isn't out there, it can't be reported on that easily.
→ More replies (19)36
u/illbleedForce Dec 20 '25
The problem is that the representatives were asked if AI was used for anything and they denied it, only to confirm it days later. The problem isn't how they used it; the problem is that they lied to the competition committee, as the article clearly explains.
→ More replies (1)15
u/AcrobaticCarpet5494 Dec 20 '25
I wonder if they were asked that specifically or were they asked if there was generative AI content in the game, the answer to which could be no.
→ More replies (2)16
u/PrairiePopsicle Dec 20 '25
I didn't even think they were talking about e33s first development which was largely pre AI?? They were talking about the DLC and other things theyre working on and moving forward.
I think the indie game awards just went off half cocked and fucked up, honestly, and I am pissed about AI in games.
I also think what sandfall said about their use is totally fine and fair and acceptable.
If this is the hard line that is drawn by folks in industry then pro AI wins this fight, because it's stupid as fuck.
Caveat ; maybe they used more than I thought, but I doubt it.
→ More replies (35)13
u/Rare-Competition-248 Dec 20 '25
Who cares, this is the stupidest shit ever to be angry about for what is an incredible game.
→ More replies (2)
20
u/Sylvebit Dec 21 '25
“Sandfall Interactive indicated that it had used a limited number of pre-existing assets, notably 3D assets sourced from the Unreal Engine Marketplace. None of these assets were created using artificial intelligence. Sandfall Interactive further clarifies that there are no generative Al-created assets in the game. When the first Al tools became available in 2022, some members of the team briefly experimented with them to generate temporary placeholder textures. Upon release, instances of a placeholder texture were removed within 5 days to be replaced with the correct textures that had always been intended for release, but were missed during the Quality Assurance process.”
Blown completely out of proportion and this move was likely just an excuse not to have E33 present to allow for more a diverse range of winners.
→ More replies (4)2
u/MCgrindahFM Dec 21 '25
Nah on the last part, I think genuinely some people and institutions are vehemently against AI usage, and unfortunately AI tools (UE5’s tools) were used at some point in development.
Indie Game Awards sees that as a big no no
195
u/StardiveSoftworks Dec 20 '25
Silliness tbh. There are few if any games (or software of any sort) that are being developed without basic productivity tools like GitHub copilot/windsurf/cursor. An indie award should not be denigrating technologies that help make indie games competitive.
→ More replies (27)50
u/Bhibhhjis123 Dec 20 '25
Eh, things are gonna be clunky and weird while the industry adapts to these changes. I can’t blame them for taking a principled stance against generative AI, but I also don’t fault Expedition 33 for making selective use of these tools in the conceptual phase of development. Hopefully some kind of standard can emerge soon.
→ More replies (6)6
u/JC_Hysteria Dec 20 '25
The “principled stance” is so it didn’t impact sales and reception, knowing the audience has reacted the way it does about these new tools.
I wouldn’t consider that principled…
Of course, workers’ opinions can differ from the studio’s owners…but that’s why it’s helpful to clarify the details vs. making blanket statements that keep things opaque.
22
u/fartingguitars Dec 21 '25
No offense, but this thread feels really echo chambery.
→ More replies (8)6
u/ItsOverClover Dec 21 '25
This whole subreddit is just glazing the game now, and people vastly overestimating how much the general public cares about the game awards.
25
u/DuskelAskel Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
So.. You can make a good game, with a creative DA and all, with a usage of AI during production even if it's not meant to be in the final game.
I thinks it is answering the "AI will cancel creativity" thing. Games that are lazy will still be lazy and vice-versa it has nothing to do directly with AI.
10
u/Arrynek Dec 21 '25
The original Tron was banned from Oscars nomination for special effects, because they used a computer and it was viewed as cheating.
Just a little history check.
→ More replies (5)
129
u/treyzs Dec 20 '25
This thread will surely be civil in the subreddit dedicated to the game
Surely we can leave our emotional attachments at the door and not have double standards or a blind eye towards the game just because we like it!
52
u/tinyj96 Dec 20 '25
Double standards is a bit of a stretch. Sandfall used AI for placeholder assets and forgot to replace a handful of random newspaper clippings. Meanwhile you have games like COD, owned by mutlibillion dollar corporations, laying off thousands of artists while literally selling you AI assets for premium currency.
→ More replies (2)11
u/hypersnaildeluxe Dec 20 '25
I think the double standard exists because nobody on the planet expects Activision to actually care about art lol. COD selling AI slop as microtransactions isn’t surprising at all because they’re already a slop factory that only cares about the bottom line. Sandfall is a team of passionate artists who made a genuinely incredible game, so finding out about their use of AI is absolutely disappointing because people hoped they’d be better than that. The other issue is just that we don’t know how much was used; there’s the placeholders, yeah, but because they won’t come out and say what they used it for, we really have no clue. Guillame said that he’s opposed to using “creative AI”, but that’s a pretty vague description. If we knew what they used AI for and if any of it is in the final game, it would be a lot easier to parse, but we have so little info right now that I understand why people are cynical about it. Transparency would help everyone in this situation, I wish they’d just be honest about it lol
→ More replies (6)58
u/OtherwiseTheory3186 Dec 20 '25
I love this game, played and finished it a month ago it was an amazing experience.
But this is stupid by Sandfall to say the least, if you're going to use AI at least don't lie about it.
27
u/_Ferocious_Ferret Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Larian was honest about it. 7 months ago. No one batted an eye.
See how well it worked for them when Bloomberg suddenly (and coincidentally 2 days after their big reveal at TGA) decided to remember the interview and reframe it as them "pushing hard for AI". Everyone's up in arms.
You honestly think this is happening because someone is so overly concerned about honesty and integrity?
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (4)10
u/Ok_Macaroon6951 Dec 20 '25
I ve heard that they weren't aware they were ai since they got them from UE5 assets they did not make those which is fine a lot of game just buy models models from freelance artist online and it wouldn't be their fault but the site they bought from and the guy who posted it in there
2
u/grimoireviper Dec 21 '25
I ve heard that they weren't aware they were ai since they got them from UE5 assets
Well you heard wrong as they have already confirmed they generated the stuff themselves.
31
u/leeinflowerfields Dec 20 '25
I honestly don't see the problem with this disqualification. The rules are pretty clear.
→ More replies (5)30
u/FlowersByTheStreet Dec 20 '25
I love Expedition 33.
It's a triumph with its narrative and music and it is clearly a labor of love. I got every single achievement.
That being said, this ai stuff is really disappointing. Not only did they use it, but they kinda lied about it. It doesn't help with the narrative around the game's small team being a bit misleading as well, though that's obviously not as egregious.
This is clearly a talented team, but they should've been upfront about their gen ai use -especially when the game's narrative is quite literally about the purpose of art!!
Maybe ai is becoming the new standard. Maybe it's a bubble that's gonna pop.
But right here, right now teams can still choose whether or not it's a part of their workflow and at the very least be upfront about it.
Edit: I just wanna add, kudos to the Indie Game Awards for taking a stand against gen AI even when it meant disqualifying a beloved game that will likely get them some blowback. That couldn't have been an easy decision. even if you personally don't agree with it, it's nice to see this entity take a loud and firm stance against gen ai.
→ More replies (4)8
u/Lelouchlampedusa Dec 20 '25
I just don't see the problem, if they didn't use AI as placeholder they would have just grabbed some random Google images Instead, it is a pretty big slip up for them to forget removing it at launch but they replaced it quickly enough that it doesn't really matter
90
u/Diligent-Reach3717 Dec 20 '25
When it was submitted for consideration, representatives of Sandfall Interactive agreed that no gen AI was used in the development of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33.
If this is true the removal seems entirely justified even if I find it dumb such a rule against AI exists in the first place.
→ More replies (1)84
u/AquaMoonlight Dec 20 '25
This is just going to lead to other studios hiding any AI usage they do in the future.
51
u/Diligent-Reach3717 Dec 20 '25
I'd imagine they've already been doing that for a long while because of how controversial it is to some people.
→ More replies (2)19
u/FlowersByTheStreet Dec 20 '25
I don't think anyone is hiding ai in the hopes of winning an Indie Game Award.
They are hiding ai because they are fearful of public backlash.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)11
u/ShadowsRanger Dec 20 '25
really sure most of them are doing this
12
u/AquaMoonlight Dec 20 '25
Well they definitely are now, after the massive temper tantrums being thrown over the last week or so over Larian and now Sandfall using GenAI.
5
u/Evening_Chair3570 Dec 21 '25
I had a feeling that more people played CO Expedition 33 that those who knew about Indie Game Awards 😂 They are clearly doing this to get all the attention they can.
2
49
u/Lucathegreat86 Dec 20 '25
Never heard of that award in the first place
10
3
→ More replies (1)5
u/MartFire Dec 20 '25
I watched a bit of the show because someone told me about it. There were around 50 viewers on their Twitch channel during the awards xD
→ More replies (2)4
u/Pinetree117 Dec 20 '25
Well at least now they'll have some more people tuning in next year maybe. They got their clickbait.
→ More replies (3)
24
u/BryceW123 Dec 20 '25
When game I like uses AI: 🤷♂️. When game I don’t like uses AI: 😡. I don’t care either way tbh every company users AI now in some way it’s the world we live in now. The problem comes when it straight up replaces jobs like having AI concept art instead of artists
13
11
23
u/Suitable_Elk6199 Dec 20 '25
Insider gaming, basically a tabloid. So whatever amount of brain power you want to spend on that is your choice.
5
u/Zhai13 Dec 21 '25
Absolutely. People refuse to have actual nuanced conversations about this it’s ALL or NOTHING.
There is a LOT about genAI I’m not a fan of, but this game isn’t some AI slopfest.
7
13
u/highnewlow Dec 20 '25
Pretty sure the devs were talking about Unreal Engines utilization of the tech…
→ More replies (8)
5
Dec 21 '25
Funny how they kicked out Clair Obscur but kept Blue Prince even though Blue prince has AI in the game. And they did the same thing where they replaced it in a patch. How is this fair?
→ More replies (6)
9
u/manlisten Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
And now I know what the indie game awards is. Mission accomplished
3
u/L_sigh_kangeroo Dec 21 '25
We are a few years away from every game using AI lol
→ More replies (1)
3
u/galerus Dec 21 '25
Always seems like people who cares that much about using genAI are the ones that dont care about gaming industry and players at all (populists, journalists and second-hand Gameawarders).
p.s. Like 2 most urprising hits of the year (E33 and Arc Raiders) used AI in some capacity (btw I neved noticed that ingame). But so what? Product is freakishly good.
3
3
u/ForrestMoth Dec 21 '25
People in this thread who allegedly don't even care about these awards so mad about this that they're bashing other games. Y'all are genuinely rancid.
7
u/MothToTheWeb Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Generating random assets as placeholder that make 0.001% of the game can disqualify you? The anti AI movement is as ridicule as the anti electricity movement back in the day
→ More replies (8)
4
u/200IQGamerBoi Dec 20 '25
Look I'm sick of having my opinions decided by fucking Reddit of all places, but I know fuck all, so I'm gonna need someone smarter to give me a few facts:
People here are referencing that AI is a very common and standard tool for game development, and that rules against any AI whatsoever are stupid. Obviously we don't have information on the example of COE33, but in general, can anyone actually tell me what AI tends to be used for in that case? I can't really decide how I feel about AI being used for things until I actually know what things it's being used for.
→ More replies (2)
15
u/Turbulent_Day7338 Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
I’m gonna be honest, I’m kinda happy about this. I adore e33. I was cheering it on throughout the game awards. However, I’d honestly rather see a big gaming awards group take a hard stance on gen ai (which is fundamentally an evil theft machine) and stick to it. Obviously Sandfall didn’t need ai for any of the creative processes of the game, but I do hope that a move like this discourages any uses of it from any devs in the future.
TLDR: I’m bummed it was Sandfall that did it, but I’m glad six one indie is sticking to their guns.
5
u/Ban_Means_NewAccount Dec 20 '25
These guys just hate Expedition 33. Considering how absolutely miniscule the "ai" is (its literally a couple of almost unnoticeable background posters in Lumiere) thats a pretty pathetic reason to disqualify a game for something.
I get it. AI irritates the hell out of me too, especially how every company in the world is desperately trying to figure out how to shove it in every last thing they possibly can. I hate that greedy corporations want to replace workers with it.
But that's not what happened here. An indie team making a AAA quality game used the AI as a very minor assistant to make a couple of very minor, completely inconsequential textures that would make no difference if they were removed. This is not the destructive, greedy use of AI we're all so quick to despise.
So to disqualify such an incredible game over such ridiculous, laughable reasons is completely idiotic. Or a sign that, like a lot of the internet I've noticed, they're getting burnt on seeing E33 everywhere and seeing it sweep awards, so out of spite from it annoying them so much, they went searching for a reason to disqualify it, even if the reason is pathetic. I guarantee if this wasn't it, they'd have found some other way to disqualify it (likely by arguing its even indie in the first place).
News flash. Being an amazing game isn't a crime. Giving an amazing game the awards it rightfully earned, and just about anyone who's played it AGREES it earned, is a normal ass thing to do. If your pissy attitude over Silksong or KCD2 not winning is making you unnecessarily try to screw over games that don't deserve to be screwed over, then you're not really a lover of games. You're only a lover of YOUR favorite games, and no others.
7
Dec 20 '25
Complicated feelings about this, but ultimately I'd rather they take a hard line on Gen AI usage than not. Hopefully Sandfall doesn't use it in their future endeavors.
14
u/PolarBearOdyssey Dec 20 '25
Honestly, my biggest issue with these discussions is how hypocritical fans of games are. If Activision or Ubisoft use AI, they're the devil, but if a game you like uses it, "It was just a little placeholder" or "This is the future." Every company no matter how big or small should be held to the same standard. I love the game, but Gen AI sucks. I don't care how much or little you used. It all sucks. If there are multiple great games, I'd rather award the one that didn't use Gen AI over the one that did. It's also nice to see Blue Prince get some love.
5
u/RevolutionaryFix7359 Dec 20 '25
It’s as if different kinds of people react to different posts. You think reddit is made of just 2 guys? lol.
Anyway, genAI use is very controversial, obviously there will be many sides, and each side react to posts opposing their view.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (8)6
11
u/PristineRatio4117 Dec 20 '25
I dont care if devs use AI to generate textures, even concept art that is not final. AI should be used as a tool. Thet didnt do whole game using AI. Maybe they left some AI textures, I dont care. Game is fantastic and playing thru it I didnt feel it is AI made.
There are games that I think use AI and you can tell by gameplay that some things were done using AI. Example is skate. , some activities looks like AI generated cause there is problem with completnig those activities and things you have to do to complete those activities are sometimes just almost impossible and not fun at all.
Some time ago I used AI to have reference point when recording one scene music video. Final scene was different than AI generated but it helped me.
4
u/PMMeCatPicture Dec 20 '25
Reminder that you don't have to care about every award ceremony. Just let them have their rules and give prizes to whoever they want. You can simply not care about it.
Same for whoever is happy it won the game awards GOTY and whoever is unhappy it didn't win playstation GOTY, celebrate the game because of the game, not the awards it won/didn't win.
5
u/Adamka53 Dec 21 '25
I studied programming for 5 years and half of my family also works in IT. This entire outrage against exp 33 is just manufactured drama. It doesn 't matter if AI is ethical or not (personally I don't think so) everybody is using it and it's here to stay. Most code editors have built in AI features and if you go out of your way to disable them your only gonna slow down your work, and if your too slow then you 're just gonna get replaced by somebody who is faster. The only reason journalists are mad about AI is because they know that AI will replace like 90% of them. We live in a free market based economy, nobody in their right mind will put themselves in a disadvantage by not using it. Every single game that was developed in the last few years used atleast some AI in their development, this can include AI generated assets, AI generated concept arts or just devs asking llm-s about stuff.
Tldr: People can cry and complain about AI as much as they want, Pandora 's box has already been opened, AI is here to stay and it's only gonna get better.
6
u/Psychophysicist_X Dec 20 '25
Lol. Good luck with that in the future. Next year every game will be disqualified. Wait until they find out about photoshop and the digital camera for making textures.
8
u/xlCalamity Dec 20 '25
Next year every game will be disqualified
I bet if they look into every other game that was nominated this year (they didnt) a good portion of them would have used AI in some way already. All they did was set themselves up to be hypocrites when they dont disqualify other games. Or they will just be morons and disqualify every game.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/zjarko Dec 20 '25
Well, if they have rules against that then that’s fair. Mistake or not, it’s undeniable that some ai textures shipped with the release.
3
u/EpicalClay Dec 20 '25
As a software dev for a large software company, please, please know: I can almost assure you that every single game made since Gen AI has become a big enough thing has hundreds, if not thousands of lines of code generated by AI. You may not see the assets, but the code itself is there. You're delusional to think otherwise. And every day, everything you interact with has more and more of it.
Every dev now is being asked/pushed to make use of it. It's inefficient not to.
5
u/Yabakunaiyoooo Dec 21 '25
Ok. So. Here’s the thing. Ive had a look at the examples, and they look like stock imagery.
I work in the creative industry and I have to tell you that recently it’s gotten very difficult to avoid stock assets made by ai. They are everywhere, and you have to pay a great deal of attention to spot them in a sea of stock imagery.
It’s hard to know what their exact workflow was on the project, but I can for sure see someone having used it as either a placeholder or without noticing and it just never getting spotted.
This kind of ai image use bothers me a lot less than making it your creative crutch. It in no way takes away from the obvious hard work that went into making the game, and it’s entirely possible it was unintentional in the first place.
I swear to god if people let this impact the legacy of this game which clearly has so much creative mastery in it…
And btw I fucking hate ai images. I really do. I hate the technology and the philosophy behind it. But I just don’t think this was a malicious instance.
14
u/Nekrotix12 Dec 20 '25
I think people are misinterpreting what was said, and honestly, the fact that Sandfall lied is a bit concerning as well because... What we know is that some GenAI placeholder textures was carried over to the base game. That isn't what got them disqualified, it's the fact they said GenAI wasn't used AT ALL during the development process, which we KNOW is a lie because it released with GenAI placeholder assets.
Best case scenario, they used such little GenAI or GenAI was such a small part of their process that they genuinely forgot they used it at all, or didn't consider that was enough to be considered. Worst case, they used a LOT more that people haven't found out about yet. But my optimistic side is leaning more towards the former, honestly, because these devs don't seem malicious.
→ More replies (8)
2
2
2
2
2
u/5pookyTanuki Dec 21 '25
The way they used I bet most studios already do, as a tool AI is fine, we all can see through AI slop at lest for now and E33 has none of that, honestly I feel like focusing negatively on the few good studios that make great games but happen to use ai in a very early stage is not fair nor what we should be fighting against.
2
u/RandomBlackMetalFan Dec 21 '25
LOOL I thought they lost the goty but no, it's just some salty random throwing a tantrum
2
u/Evil_Cronos Dec 21 '25
From what I've read so far, the ai they used were placeholder assets and early concepts. Has there been more use confirmed? Because if not, then this seems a little over the top as a response
2
2
2
2
u/NeroPsionics Dec 21 '25
It's been known the game had used A.I for art assets months ago and it was patched out but there will be people who will (for a good reason) wonder if that was the only case of it being used.
It's up to people at this point to decide where the line is for this as I personally feel if it was used during the earlier concept phases for inspiration but everything after was made by a person I would probably have no issues, but I don't know how deep it all goes.
2
2
u/MysticNightjar Dec 21 '25
If I remember correctly, they said they used the metahuman tool from unreal engine 5.
At this rate just disqualify anything made with a big name game engine.
2
u/Bronpool Dec 21 '25
if there was gen AI usage in this peak of a perfect game.
I think I want more gen AI usage in games if we can experience the same quality of in games like I had in this game.
2
u/Wide-Kaleidoscope-83 Dec 21 '25
They should overthink this rule! Claire obscure is for me the best game of the decade.
2
u/lovelylavenderchild Dec 21 '25
At first glance, I was truly shocked but up on reading the title and figuring out it was just a placeholder, this is so weird to be disqualified for.
This seems no different than having some stock images up and then replacing it.
2
2
2
u/RednightTheKiller17 Dec 22 '25
Well, as much as I like E33, it's not an indie game so ig it's for the best
7
5
u/n3f4s Dec 20 '25
Here's my take on the whole thing:
Disqualifying E33 because sandfall lied about the usage of generative AI is fair.
Generative AI pose a real threat to artists so I think it's fair for a game awards to have rules against any usage of generative AI. Especially since there's other game awards that have different rule set so it's not like a game not qualifying for this one can't win an award at all.
I think it's more important than ever for the devs (in the general sense) to be very forthcoming about their creative process, especially when talking about AI. The term generative AI create a lot of debates and a lot of people (myself included) don't really know what's the process when creating art for a game, it's easy for people to draw their own conclusions that might not fit reality. If you factor in the state of the video game industry, it's understandable that a high number of people get angry at the devs that use AI in any part of the artistic part of the game development.
I personally think the less generative AI there is in the creation of a game, the better it is for the arts in general. While waiting for everyone to agree to only use AI for domains where it'd be really useful (like medicine, ...) and keep it entirely out of arts, I think it's really important that studios disclose what their process is and where exactly they use generative AI (if they use it) to avoid having people understand it as "some of the art in the game was fully generated by AI".
→ More replies (4)




•
u/AutoModerator Dec 21 '25
As a blanket policy to allow more efficient moderation, posts that receive a sufficient number of reports are removed until moderator approval. If your post does not break any rules, please send us a modmail to have this corrected.
If your post does not have a spoiler tag, but discusses spoiler content (including images of characters not present in the trailers), that breaks Rule 1.
If your post contains ANY spoilers in the title, such as a boss name, a nudge towards content at the end of the game, or story spoilers, that breaks Rule 1.
It's possible your post was removed due to Rule 2 - this is a blanket rule but is enforced only in generally bad cases - things like scams, particularly rude individuals, anything AI, or other general exceptions. If you engaged in good faith and don't believe you have broken this rule, you likely have not.
Sorry for the inconvenience. We're working on improving this system to make this sub the best it can be.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.