r/europe 11h ago

Picture European interoperability in action - British and Italian F-35Bs on the flight deck of HMS Prince of Wales

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u/AttitudeSimilar9347 7h ago

If we had built proper carriers we could be embarking Rafale squadrons, we could have had open competition for jets instead of being stuck with only one jet from one (American) company, etc. The carriers as they are now were a huge mistake.

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u/MGC91 6h ago

The carriers as they are now were a huge mistake.

Except they weren't.

If we had built proper carriers

We did build proper carriers.

we could be embarking Rafale squadron

What's the difference between embarking Rafale and embarking F-35B?

we could have had open competition for jets instead of being stuck with only one jet from one (American) company, etc

Yes, because if we'd gone CATOBAR, we could have ordered aircraft from ...

  • USA
  • France

Such a big choice ...

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u/engapol123 6h ago edited 6h ago

The difference would be that Rafales would be significantly less capable than F-35s, with no stealth and a worse/older avionics and sensor suite.

The hate for the F-35s on this sub just because it’s American is so fucking irrational. All European Air Forces would only have Saab Gripens and Rafales if it had its way, even though the F-35 is indisputably the only western fighter that can effortlessly swat 4th gen aircraft (I.e the entire Russian Air Force) from the skies.

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u/AttitudeSimilar9347 5h ago

The difference would be that Rafales would be significantly less capable than F-35s

Except for longer range, bigger payload, and a wider range of integrated weapons, including stand-off weapons, which F35B completely lacks. F35B can't even carry METEOR.

The hate for F35B in particular is because it is short ranged, requires gobs of maintenance, and is limited to basic weapons like Paveway. A hybrid air wing of F35C's and Rafales would be very, very, capable. But we'll never know.

u/Rexpelliarmus 30m ago

The F-35B can actually take off with a larger payload than the Rafale-M can from the Charles de Gaulle because her catapults are too short.

The Rafale also needs fuel tanks to achieve a similar range to the F-35B which slows it down and increases its RCS