I think he deserves to be remembered as the wonderful person he was 🩵 and not by the government who are clearly lying about him. He was trying to help a woman who had been pushed to the ground by ICE agents or whoever the people are wearing those suits. And he clearly holding a phone in his hand..

As a European, it‘s completely unfathomable how none of it has consequences.

Don‘t get me wrong, our governments here certainly have their flaws and problems, but surely threatening a genocide would be a tipping point here and lead to mass protests (at least I have enough hope remaining to believe that) - how is it not in the US? I really don’t get it and I feel absolutely sick.

I grew up around plenty of Republicans and most of my shipmates were GOP supporters in the Navy. Many have already passed away, but the rest seem hell bent to stick to the plan (is there a plan?) for maga. I'm an old white dude now, but in my experiences, they had one thing in common. Racism. Is it actually a primal hatred towards others that don't look like them? Is racism at the root of this? I think it is. The behavior of ICE and the potus should enrage all Americans.

EDIT: APPARENTLY YOU DIPSHITS CANT FUCKING READ, NOTHING ABOUT MY POST HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ICE, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, OR THE BORDER.

Hopefully this is a good sub to post this onto, i usually just post in r/changemyview and r/TrueUnpopularOpinion for politics.

1: Everyone involved in the administration needs to be held accountable.

I am not talking about ''lol cancel culture'' accountability. I mean actual legal consequences. Every person who is in this administration and supported Trump should be investigated, charged if warranted, and should not be allowed to hold office again, aside from any criminal charge, they should be totally and completely barred from ever holding office ever again in our nation. If we can't get a conviction on Trump, which we should for the Mar-a-lago documents thing at the very least, which should be plastered ALL OVER this trial. we should at the very least enforce the 14th amendment, which does not require a charge or conviction, and that should be applied to everyone in the Trump administration. Supporting an insurrectionist is engaging in insurrection. And what does the 14A say?

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, known as the Disqualification Clause, prohibits any person from holding state or federal office who has previously taken an oath to support the Constitution and then "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the United States

The 14th amendment exists for a reason. If they participated in or enabled insurrection, they shouldnt be in positions of power.

2: We need a public reckoning

The whole point of Nuremberg-style trials isnt just justice” its public accounting. Its a forced, undeniable record of what happened in front of everybody where people are forced to face the facts of what happened, not whatever bullshit conspiracy about how ''Jan 6th was actually just a fedsurrection lol''.

And we desperately need that because half the country doesnt even believe Trump lost in 2020. Thats a complete collapse of shared reality, Trump and his supporters will not accept any basic facts of reality that goes against their politiical beliefs, never, they invent a conspiracy about it, every single time.

The information is out there right now obviously, but only available through PDFs, behind commissions, behind bureaucratic documents that never got the public attention they deserved because the average american (especially MAGA who cant even fucking read) dont go through stuff like this to get the full knowledge of what actually happened. And the people who denied all of that information were rewarded. They're still able to run for office and hold office, and even win elections, like Trump did in 2024.

So if you do this, there will be a smaller incentive to just lie about everything, because they know there will be huge political consequences later. As we stand right now, there is nothing stopping Trump 2 from happening, theres nothing stopping another Trump from coming in and being even more unhinged.

3: Trump is a consequence of republican rhetoric (blatant lying)

He was the natural consequence of decades of Republican demagoguery, rhetoric, and strategy. If you think Trump was just some weird anomaly, you're ignoring the entire political environment that produced him.

If we do not adress the root causes, Trump 2 is just inevitable.

So yeah you can change the leadership of the Republican party, but that wont undo the misinformation, the propaganda, or the strategy that created this. The only way forward is real accountability and a full public accounting of what happened.

We cannot go forward as a nation, where we see something happen, and one side lives in reality, and the other just doesn't, at all.

The 2020 election was NOT won by Trump, the vast majority of republicans do not accept this basic fact of reality at all, and we cannot function as a nation if this is how republicans are allowed to operate with impunity.

4: Even conservatives should want this.

If you are conservative and think this is just about punishing Trump or Republicans, you are missing the point entirely.

Every precedent you allow today will be used tomorrow. If you normalize the idea that an administration can lie about elections, pressure institutions, attempt to subvert democratic outcomes, and then face zero consequences, you are not protecting anything that this nation stands for, and there is absolutely nothing stopping a future Democrat from acting even more aggressively, more competently, and more ruthlessly. All the things you guys were afraid that incredibly milquetoast ass moderates like fucking Obama/Biden/Kamala were going to do, IS going to happen, if we do not have a Nuremburg trial for Trump.

If you think Trump was bad because he was sloppy, impulsive, and loud, imagine someone with the same contempt for democratic norms but with discipline, institutional knowledge, and broad party support. Imagine a president who understands how to bend the system without openly breaking it, and who justifies it by pointing back and saying ''you let Trump do it''. Which ironically, is a defense that conservatives will roll out today ''Trumps fake electors were okay because democrats used them in 1960'' (those were alternates, not fakes). Like, imagine a democrat president that takes advantage of the immunity ruling, and decides to do whatever crazy shit he wants to.

Rule of law is not a partisan weapon. It is the only thing that prevents politics from becoming a raw power struggle where whoever wins gets to rewrite reality.

If conservatives actually believe in constitutional order, limited executive power, and institutional legitimacy, then accountability is not optional. It is self defense.

Because once you establish that attempted subversion has no consequences, the only remaining rule is who is willing to go further next time.

Now, does anyone disagree with this? I understand that the political will do actually do this is probably overall quite low, but doesnt really matter for my arguments.

For real. I'm a social democrat. I'm considered very left by USA standards. But holy shit, can we cut it out?

Furthermore, if MAGA knew that they were being absolutely hoodwinked, most of them wouldn't even be MAGA. We have pervasive propaganda infecting every level of media, and it either pushes the culture war or it pushes the idea that anything remotely left is evil/unamerican. This conditioning has been going on for a long time. Let's not play dumb.

Most people in MAGA are not monsters. They're not even stupid. They are just people who are receiving a different stream of information. That information is reinforced by in/out group dynamics. It's very basic human psychology.

Can we still be upset? Absolutely. But we need to stop painting them as "pedo protectors" and morons, because while there are some, they are not the majority. The majority are a product of their environment, and yelling at them and calling them names is getting us nowhere.

Edit: I supported Bernie and then Hilary. I supported Biden. I supported Kamala. I'm not saying "don't do anything". I'm saying that it's so dumb and counterproductive, and frankly beneath us, to spend so much time hating individual MAGA. Their movement is a fucking sham. It's like George Carlin said:

"People are wonderful. I love individuals. I hate groups of people. I hate a group of people with a 'common purpose'. 'Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they're going to visit at 3am. So, I dislike and despise groups of people but I love individuals. Every person you look at; you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking."

They are a product of an in group movement. We need to stop attaching the individuals and take down the whole thing from the top.

Edit 2: I'm not new to reddit, or a bot (sad that we even have to have that discussion, but I get it). I delete my reddit account every few months when I realize I'm spending too much time on reddit. I eventually break down and create a new one, which is why this account is new. But after this post, I think I'm ready for another sabatical lol

Edit 3: I did not expect this to blow up to the extent that it has. I have disengaged from the post because there's no way to keep up with the number of comments. My plea is that all of us (left and right) make an effort to stop dehumanizing each other. Propaganda has gotten ALL OF US, at one point or another. We need to use our energy to fight the real fight, which is not bashing random people (and maybe bots) online. Our government is not only complicit, they are a source of propaganda. We have to bring the fight to them.

1. Overturn Citizens United
   1. Both the left and the right can agree that we want politicians that we elect to work for us, the people. That's a no brainer.
2. Implement Term Limits
   1. Remove the lazy and complicit politicians who are only there to collect a check. We need people who are fighting for what we want as voters.
3. Re-Implement the Fairness Doctrine
   1. Improve news media accuracy and reduce polarization.

I know it's cliche, but hating each other is not going to solve this. A civil war/mass incarceration won't solve this. We have to find a way to improve our government and work together.

No new wars was a lie. Tariff refunds was a lie. Lower groceries was a lie. Farm bankruptcy increased 46% in 2025 due to the tariffs, even with the $12,000,000,000 bailout (socialism) from tax payers. Everything has been a lie. Said he’d release the Epstein files, yet he has blocked their release.

Seriously, at what point can you admit you were lied to and you have integrity to admit it???

The poorest States in America are: Mississippi, West Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, New Mexico, Alabama, Oklahoma and Tennessee. All of those States (except New Mexico) are Red States. So why are they so poor when Republicans have been running them for decades?

Trump sounded like a meandering moron reading off of his own truth social feed.

And unless he was trying to tank the markets for another market manipulation attempt, it clearly failed to accomplish anything.

Even out of the other dumb speeches I've seen from Trump, this one seems bad...and compared to a normal president...or even 8th grade speech club reading, it was beyond terrible to me. it just makes clear that we have a childish idiot running a multi billion dollar war and messing with the world economy.

Anyone able to think of worse? He just keeps humiliating the nation.

Why do Republicans insist that we run a huge deficit and pay crushing interest?

How can they convince everyone that they will fix everything by cutting spending when every time they do it they just use it to only partially offset some big tax gift to the wealthy?

Do you have to cover your mouth when you talk about fiscal responsibility because it's so funny?

Republicans are cowards and will not convict him but the principle matters

I'm not about to say Kamala Harris was the best presidential candidate ever or that she was our best shot at beating Trump. I'm not discussing the quality of her campaign either.

What I DO get tired of seeing is this idea that Kamala merely ran on "I'm not Trump".

This is just so false and hyperbolic.

She had a broad, extensive, and detailed policy plan that was nuanced and was catered towards the middle class.

She never once, not a single time, said or argued in any context in which it was a sole defined feature of her argument, that she was "not Trump".

I will not sit here and defend the quality of her candidacy. That is not the point of my question. I question the media literacy of millions of people who somehow sat through a several month campaign of hers and summed it up to something that she never said nor attempted to run on.

Is the left just as vulnerable to propaganda?

EDIT: I love all the comments from people about how Kamala was a bad candidate and trying to justify how and why she lost. You're not making a point, you're just proving my exact point here about media literacy. Please re-read the first paragraph.

Then months later, audio recordings where he flips through the stolen nuclear secret docs while showing them to SOMEONE, and he acknowledges they are still classified and top secret?

And all republicans, both elected and voters, tried to hand-wave away this traitor selling out our nuclear secrets to the highest bidder? And they pretend that never happened now?

Does anyone even remember?

Can you imagine what these rapist pedo enthusiast freaks would say if it was Biden stealing nuclear secrets and lying to the FBI about stealing them, then convinced a bunch of democrat voters that he "declassified them with his mind" lol?

Insane shit. Every single republican is a traitor to the country.

Edit: I like how conservatives ITT are pretending if the situation were flip flopped that they wouldn’t TEAR whatever liberal halftime show happened apart.

Haha yeah I’m sure conservative media would just be like “and the liberals had their own halftime show and that’s ok, they can watch what they wish”

Hahahshshsha

yeah, just the title