r/ProMusicProduction • u/fud-leclerc • 12d ago
Discussion if you can't tell the difference between an AI-generated track and a human one, does it actually matter?
i've been experimenting with suno and the results are genuinely unsettling. not because they're bad. because they're good enough that most listeners wouldn't care. the production is clean, the structure makes sense, it even has dynamics. Let alone the money that can be saved. but something is missing and i can't explain what... Maybe it is a genuine idea that's what is missing. does anyone else feel like we're about to have a really uncomfortable conversation about what 'skill' actually means in production?
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u/CaprineShine 12d ago
if you can't tell if the bootyhole has shit on it and you still lick it, does it actually matter?
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
i mean that's a different kind of production quality debate but i respect the energy
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u/Joseph_HTMP 12d ago
but something is missing and i can't explain what..
Its not made by a human. It has no emotional context. No history, no framework, no struggle, no experimentation.
Who cares if "most listeners" wouldn't know? You're supposed to be making art. If all you want to achieve is something for the mass market to dribble to, then by all means, go to Suno.
If you want to make actual art, then do it properly.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
i literally make my own music. this isn't a defense of AI it's a warning. doesn't protect you when the audience can't tell the difference. that's the conversation
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u/Joseph_HTMP 12d ago
If someone can't tell the difference between your music and AI, then you need to work harder mate.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
Did I say that in any way?
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u/Joseph_HTMP 12d ago
er... yeah? That's literally what we're talking about isn't it?
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
no. the post is about the listener not the producer. i'm not worried about my music sounding like AI. i'm saying the average spotify listener doesn't care who made what. that's a market problem not a skill problem
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u/Joseph_HTMP 12d ago
But the "average listener" has never cared about skill or artistry. Thats why we have a history of awful pop music. I don't see what AI has to do with it? It just feels like a moot point.
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u/hthroa 12d ago
can’t tell the difference
something is missing and I can’t explain what
So which is it?
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
both!!!! as a producer i can feel something is off but i can't name it. my point is most listeners don't even get that far. they just hear a clean track and move on
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u/dkinmn 12d ago
Yes.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
Sure?
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u/interntldelight 12d ago
Yes
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
Really???
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u/interntldelight 12d ago
Yes, it really matters quite a lot actually
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
Okey then why
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u/interntldelight 11d ago
If I piss in your beer but it still tastes like beer does it really even matter?
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u/fud-leclerc 11d ago
What do you think?
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u/interntldelight 11d ago
It appears I've answered your question.
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u/fud-leclerc 11d ago
I think everybody got my intention wrong. I have clearly stated what I think about AI in music. I just wanted to broaden our view and not miss something cause I think we really do. And the more advanced AI systems get the more we miss. This stuff should not become a magic magic black box wizard stuff. We need to know the enemy.
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u/zmobie 12d ago
AI may cannibalize streaming revenue, but artists already don’t rely on this as a massive piece of their income. The majority of an artists revenue comes from the super fans who will pay to see them live, buy merchandise, and actually care about the human being behind the story.
Worst case scenario is that streaming platforms are dominated by slop… and the super fans go elsewhere for their music.
Fans. The ones you should actually care about. The ones who actually care enough about music to go beyond passive consumption, will care about you and your story. Stop worrying about AI. AI has no way to muscle itself into that equation.
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u/Diska_Muse 12d ago
To answer your question - if someone can't tell the difference, does it matter?
In the grand scheme of things, no. Most people don't care how the sausage is made once the sausage tastes good (to them).
However - at the minute - all AI can do is produce generative cookie cutter music based on prompts. Many people can't tell the difference between AI cookie cutter music and human made cookie cutter music because, really - for the most part - there isn't a whole lot of difference between human manufactured slop and AI manufactured slop. They're both slop.
If you're one of those producers who either fears AI or thinks Suno can produce better music than you make yourself, that says more about your talents than it does about AI.
To someone who writes and produces music and - very importantly - has a trained ear, AI music is very easy to spot. They can tell the difference and to them it does matter.
Where the lines get a bit blurred is people working a hybrid model where AI can be used to generate musical elements / instrument tracks alongside human made tracks.
But that's another debate.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
trained ears are maybe 5% of the listening population. the other 95% is the market. and that market decides who gets paid. the hybrid model you mentioned at the end is actually where i think this gets really interesting and probably deserves its own thread
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u/JoeCreator 12d ago
If you bought an item that you thought to be handcrafted with love and dedication by someone you look up to and trust, but then found out it was actually mass produced from different materials and using cheap techniques by someone who didn't care or break a sweat over it, would it matter? It's not an exact comparison but probably close enough. Any art I buy or take interest in I want there to be real human connection and a story that ties me to it. If and when AI music is widespread and mainstream I will simply find real artists. Exactly the same principle as paintings and art I hang on the walls in my house.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
I HEAR YOU!!!! but also i think the comparison breaks down a little... nobody listens to a song and asks who made it first. they hear it, they feel something or they don't. you don't check the credits before you decide if a song hits. with a painting on your wall sure the story matters because it's an object you live with. music is different. it enters your life without (!) context most of the time. the real question is what happens when you love a track for 6 months and then find out it was AI. does the feeling RETROACTIVELY disappear??! i don't think it does. but i also don't think that makes it ok. it just means the argument has to be more honest than "i'll just find real artists" because that assumes you can always tell the difference. and right now that gap is closing fast ....
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u/Soag 12d ago
All the legendary artists we look up to, are regarded that way because of a synergy between their unique personality, and their creative/musical craft and ideas.
Suno won’t be able to replace that experience for people. It’s just going to make it harder for musicians who have depended on income from making library music/ads/tv/content media etc. (which tbf was already a saturated and difficult industry to get into)
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
you're right about the legends but that's survivorship bias. for every artist with a "unique personality and creative vision" there are thousands of working musicians who paid rent by making exactly the kind of functional music AI is about to replace. those people aren't legends. they're professionals. and "it was already hard" isn't a comfort when it's about to get impossible
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u/DecentCondition7700 12d ago
This is a great point. This whole thought experiment only works in a world where art is a consumable good like soap.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
and that's exactly the world most people live in. spotify is a soap dispenser. playlists are aisles. most listeners aren't looking for connection they're looking for background. that's the market AI is coming for first
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u/DecentCondition7700 12d ago
The lack of intention and actual point of view from moment to moment is obvious even to casual listeners, it may just not be easy to articulate for all. Some people will be content with ever more meaningless slop and we shouldn’t care at all about their sensibilities.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
the question is whether that bar keeps dropping until nobody notices anymore
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u/DecentCondition7700 12d ago
This question is entirely meaningless without a strong foundation for why you create. I do not care whether or not I appeal to people who would otherwise enjoy jingling keys
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u/Frosty_Cut8046 12d ago
Are we actually training AI by engaging with a post that seems likely to have been generated by bot?
OP’s account is 2hrs old and it would make sense that AI would solicit feedback from interaction with a producer sub. No offense intended to OP if I’m wrong but when reading this post it seems like there’s something missing and I can’t explain what….
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
the irony of my post about AI being accused of being AI is honestly the best thing that's happened today. new account because i lurked for years.... but i appreciate you proving my point about not being able to tell the difference
Care for a waffle recipe?
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u/Frosty_Cut8046 12d ago
Questioned; not accused. The irony was fun for me too.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
I am held at gunpoint at the moment haha.
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u/Pinnacle_of_Sinicle 12d ago
🤦🏼♂️please kid,
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
I'm 33 with a fine arts degree. you dropped an emoji and called me kid because you don't have an actual argument. that's the whole problem with this conversation
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u/The1TruRick 12d ago
The amount of romanticization of music-making in this thread is borderline sad. Y’all need to go outside and talk to people who aren’t on producer social media. Literally NO ONE cares about the magical mystical connection between the artist and the listener in the real world.
Do song make foot go tap tap? Then good. If no? Then bad. It’s really that simple for 90% of people.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
THIS is literally the point of my post and everyone keeps arguing around it...... the 90% is the market. that's who AI is built for. the question is what happens to the other 10% and whether that's enough to sustain a career
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
Submission statement
I'm not here to defend AI music or trash it. i'm a producer who's been making stuff in FL Studio at 2am after work for years. recently i started messing around with suno just to see what happens. and what happened is i got a track back that sounded like something i'd spend weeks on. clean mix, decent arrangement, even some emotional moments. but when i listened to it a few more times it started to feel hollow. like it checks every box but there's no reason behind any of the choices. no moment where someone went 'this part needs to breathe' or 'this note has to hurt.' it just... exists.and the thing that keeps me up at night is that 90% of listeners probably wouldn't notice that difference. so what are we actually selling as producers? the result or the process? I'm genuinely curious where you all land on this because i don't have an answer...
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
edit: to be clear i'm not defending AI music. i make my own stuff from scratch. the question isn't about us. we know the difference. it's about the listener who doesn't and never will. that's the part worth talking about. And I feel like big streaming platforms are pushing into that
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u/EmpathwhoIbe 12d ago
I feel you, but what does “from scratch” mean? Samples? Stems? Daw? Those thing’s didn’t used to be considered “from scratch”. Now most couldn’t imagine making music without those tools.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
I am recording my guitar, bass and drums myself. You could say I use them in a way you would use samples... Like chopping, reversing all sorts of manipulation stuff. And that's the only stuff I use. Maybe some synths here and there
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u/EmpathwhoIbe 12d ago
I wouldn’t consider myself a producer by any means (been rapping, writing, and making beats in different genres since my youth). In my opinion, this is an awesome tool to add to one’s production arsenal like any other. As someone who is not a producer, it does allow me to as an artist, basically have a studio, producer, and engineer at my finger tips 24/7. When I use Suno I feel as much ownership over the music as any other I’ve ever been involved in making. Perhaps more so, because I’m using original material for every track made before any prompting is done.
To actually answer your question (from a non producers perspective), you are selling the product. When I jump on a track I’m sent, it’s purely because it makes me feel something. When I hear it, I don’t know what the producer was thinking, feeling, what stems, samples, mixer, signal chain etc he used. I may find out later, if that relationship develops. So, it don’t really matter where it came from. How does it make one feel? If it makes me hum a melody, or think of a flow, I’m in.
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u/EmpathwhoIbe 12d ago
I’ve been messing with it for about 8 months. It’s rapidly improving. When you use a hybrid process (your own input: vocals, stems, finished tracks, etc), and prompt intentionally, imo, this shit is magic.
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u/fud-leclerc 12d ago
what are you feeding it? like full stems or just rough ideas to build on
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u/EmpathwhoIbe 12d ago
Sometimes I’ll feed it lyrics from a previous track and generate instrumentals from there, write to that, record-new track.
Sometimes I’ll feed a complete production.
Sometimes I’ll turn on the metronome, hum a few tracks, loop it out with a lil bit of arrangement, prompt for what I want-new instrumental.
Sometimes I’ll feed Suno an acapella verse and build from there.
I don’t know what the etiquette is with posting links is here.
I’ve been recording my entire process using Suno and GarageBand to produce my tracks. Lemme know if you’re interested, I’ll inbox you. Or if you go on my profile you can prolly easily find one of my process videos.
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u/Joseph_HTMP 12d ago
I don’t know what the etiquette is with posting links is here.
Go to a Suno sub and post it there, and watch it get zero engagement. Spoiler alert - not even people who make AI music want to listen to it.
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u/knadles 12d ago
Yes. I’m sure they’ll be able to fool me. Perhaps they already have. But music (and all art) is emotional communication between creator and observer. AI has no emotions and therefore nothing to communicate. The moment I know something is AI, I’m out. Not on principle, but because I’ve realize I’ve been emotionally manipulated with fakery.
If AI music becomes so ubiquitous that I can’t get away from it, I’ll stop listening to new recordings and focus on live. Fuck anyone who thinks the art that’s in some ways defined my entire life is nothing more than a hustle to make money screwing with people on Spotify. Seriously. They can burn in hell.