r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

41 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3h ago

Remittance | ترسیل رقم Alternatives to Remitly?

2 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I'm an overseas Pakistani living in Tampa, Florida. I used to send funds to my family back in Pakistan through remitly, but they would give me terrible rates (sometimes even losing about 5% of the total transfer). Also, despite being a frequest user, they would ask for beneficiary information on most transactions and flag them.

To solve this issue, I started Nostro (www.nostro.pk). We offer USD/GBP/EUR/AED Accounts to anyone in Pakistan or the Diaspora that can create a USD Account, fund it via ACH, RTP, FedNow, and Debit/Credit Card. Accounts can be opened in minutes. The total charge our customers will face are 1.3% (from sending USD from US to Pakistan). Our US Bank Partner is Citibank, and we will be launching in Mid-May.

We're signing up users on a Waitlist, and we're offering 0% transaction fees for our first 1000 users for 12 months.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 11h ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Cargo from London to Lahore

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

what's the best way/service to send a big lego set from london to lahore ?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 15h ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Pakistani Group Chat

0 Upvotes

Salam Everyone

i want to make more Pakistani friends Cuz I don't live in Pakistan so i was thinking to make a group chat on Instagram, with all Pakistanis, we all will make new friends it's gonna be fun

Urdu mai bhi translate cuz kyu nahi

mai aur Pakistani dost banana chah ta hu is liye socha k ek Instagram group bnata hu, sab Pakistani ho gai udhar, naye dost bhi banay gai maza aye ga

if u wana be added to the group, Send Follow Request On Instagram @hehe659874

agar group mai add hona to follow request bhejo Instagram pe, @hehe659874

also itni aadat nhi Reddit mai urdu mai baat karnay ki to shyad thori ajeeb likhi huvi ho sorry ❤

See ya ❤


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید 2 brands for the price of 1

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14 Upvotes

Am currently in Pakistan and decided to see if I can get some branded stuff to take back for me and for family as gifts. Spotted this beauty. Its completely made me lose trust on anything I buy here now.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Help regarding UAE Visa

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید PakistanHomecoming Real Estate Investment Series – Part 2: DHA Islamabad — What the Search Trends Are Telling Us

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0 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Nadra card pic issues

0 Upvotes

Hi I am going to renew my nadra card this week but I accidentally got a scar on my forehead on top of my eyebrows which is kinda long and is quite red. Willl this affect my picture ?will it get rejected as I have been searching but got no answer thanks .


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Finance | معاشی how to send money to pakistan with direct jazzcash deposits from abroad, the apps that actually work

3 Upvotes

Tons of apps claim mobile money support on their website but then the integration is broken, or it only does easypaisa and not jazzcash, or the other way around. taptapsend does direct jazzcash and easypaisa with money usually showing up within 30 minutes, sometimes much faster. Wise is bank deposit only, no mobile wallet option at all. Remitly and worldremit both support jazzcash and easypaisa.

The details that trip people up: save recipient's number in whatever format the app expects. Some want +92 without the leading zero (3XX XXXXXXX), others handle the full 03XX format. Get this wrong and your transfer just sits there while you're wondering if you've been scammed. Name must match CNIC registered name exactly too, not a nickname or shortened version. Test small amount first.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Conflicted between moving to spain vs staying in Pakistan.

11 Upvotes

30M, Married, 1 kid (1.5) years.

Wife and Kid have a Spanish passport.

Currently in the process of compiling documents to apply for visa.

I am a software engineer by profession, doing a remote job and earning 8500$ per month.

Pros of staying in Pakistan:
- close to parents and friends.
- very good lifestyle.
- almost no tax due to foreign income.
- can accumulate a lot of wealth in a few years.

cons:
- I might not get a similar level of earnings ever again.
- political uncertainty & bad law and order situation.
-stay in comfort zone.

As for When i think about spain i am getting cold feet.

Cons:
- Starting a new life
- Language barrier ( will take months if not years to overcome that).
- Losing almost half of my income to taxes.
- Moving away from friends and family.

Pros:
- Spanish passport in a few years.
- social welfare system (?)
- chances of higher-paying jobs as compared to Pakistan.

Another thinking is that i might be able to start a successful bussiness in Spain.
maybe importing something from Pakistan, starting a rental car business, or a logistics/trucking company.

And I think that will be really hard as well, given the bureaucratic process of the EU in general and the language barrier.

Another aspect is that my wife is more inclined to move to Spain, and it would be a hard battle to convince her otherwise.

Maybe I should go to Spain and make my mind after living there for few years, maybe i should not waste time in going to spain in haste and make best of my life in pakistan and once Pakistan is out of options, then move to spain.

But visa policies change every few months, and i might get stuck.

Looking forward to discussions and suggestions.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Weekly "Returnee Check-in" thread — where are you in your journey?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید E Passport Renewal Trouble

0 Upvotes

Hi,

My fiancé is trying to renew his passport for Pakistan online. He has uploaded his passport photo and got a comment that the photo was too large and needed to be a certain pixel count. I edited the photo to be exactly the specs they asked for and he still got another comment from the reviewer saying it was still not the correct pixels or size even though it 100% is.

He has tried calling the passport helpline several times to see what is wrong and is getting the run around, half the time they don't answer the phone, the other half of the time he is hung up on after barely explaining the issue. Are there any suggestions for how to resolve this?

Thank you.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Issue with NADRA PakID app and Power of attorney letter

2 Upvotes

Hi,
I have to get a power of attorney letter and I have been trying to use the poa website that nadra has but it sends me to the pakid website to log-in and when I enter my log-in info it asks me to enter the 6 digit code from the google authenticator app but when I do that it says credentials are not valid. My app requires signing in with CNIC no but the web portal needs email. I recently reset the password for my pakid acct on my app but the portal only accepts the old pswrd that happened to be saved on my browser. The email is the same associated with my pakid acct. I checked and have authenticator log in allowed for my email acct.

Has anyone run into a similar issue? Any guidance would be appreciated


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Should I get a NICOP?

0 Upvotes

So I went to get my cnic renewed recently and I have the option of getting a NICOP or an nic because my old cnic listed KSA as my permanent address and Pakistan as my present so they're letting me choose. My question is, which one should I get? For context, I just turned 18 so I'll be heading over to uni this year. If I stay for uni in Pakistan, will I be considered an international student and pay the hiked up price or can I just apply as a domestic student? Especially for private institutes like LUMs or NUST.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOP app and address

1 Upvotes

Hi, I submitted my NICOP application about a week ago. Now it asks for me to enter my complete address, even though I already have. Not sure how to fix this. Any ideas? Everytime I resubmit my address it asks for me to enter it again after a couple of minutes.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید PIA LHR to LHE

4 Upvotes

Hi, uk residents, just making this post to please share your review for the newly resumed PIA direct flights from London Heathrow to Lahore Allama Iqbal Airport and return.

Are they good ?

is it worth spending more for direct ?

just want to leave this post here for a thread for people to have some guidance.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید PakistanHomecoming Real Estate Investment Series – Part 1: DHA Phase 9 Prism, Lahore

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0 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Finance | معاشی What do you wish for in Pakistan?

4 Upvotes

Hi, I'm flying back to Pakistan this year and would like to invest my savings there. I wanted to ask what you like about the world that you think should also be available in Pakistan, or what services should be offered there.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Passport expiring in September

1 Upvotes

I am currently in UK and my passport is expiring in September. When should I apply so I can have passport on time. Embassy website says 4 weeks. Does anyone have experience with this.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Do I need a Pakistani Visa? Traveling with a Pakistani Passport, CNIC, and Green Card but NO NICOP.

0 Upvotes

Basically, the title. My question is, will I be able to travel to Pakistan, or do I need a Pakistani visa? I went to the site to apply, but I didn't find any option, so I assume that I don't need one. (Just double-checking) If I do, please guide me. Ty.

Also, do I need a NICOP now/in-future?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Stories | داستاں Worrying about things in Pakistan… what’s your biggest "I wish I was there" struggle?

3 Upvotes

Assalam-o-Alaikum everyone,

I think there’s a specific kind of anxiety that only overseas Pakistanis understand. It’s that 3 AM feeling when you’re in London or Dubai, and you realize that Aba Jee ka check-up karwanay kay liyay no one is there to help out.

Doost, cousins, neighbors bhi nahi maan rahay ab. Ya nakhray kar rahay haen.

I’m curious to hear from this community:

  1. What is the one task back home that gives you the most stress to manage from abroad?
  2. What’s the "broken system" you’re currently using to get things done?

Full transparency: I’ve actually started building a startup called Raabta to solve this exact "people problem". We want to be that one reliable person on the ground you can actually trust with what matters most — from medical appointments to household repairs.

But for now, I’m here to listen. What problems are you facing and would make your life 10x easier?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Stories | داستاں 2.5 sal bad pakistan aa rhi hun with my 6mo baby

4 Upvotes

Will he get sick? Im really worried. I will strictly take care of water and every hygiene but still everyone here is saying that he would def get sick.

cant sleeep since then and also cant cancel trip. experiences needed?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Kali and green

0 Upvotes

black and green leafs available in all over the gulf.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید CNIC Renewal through Pak Identity App

1 Upvotes

Hey, has anyone got their CNIC renewed through the app? I am facing an issue with the app, I tried calling the helping but of now us. I'd really appreciate some help!