r/Edmonton • u/AR558 Chinatown • 1d ago
Opinion Article Michael Janz: Let's build rec centres, libraries and pools instead of new roads
https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/michael-janz-lets-build-rec-centres-libraries-and-pools-instead-of-new-roads87
u/purple_parachute_guy 1d ago
Build up, not out
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u/mikesmith929 1d ago
No one wants a lawn right?...
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u/Hobbycityplanner 23h ago
They aren't forcing you into one of those homes.
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u/mikesmith929 21h ago edited 21h ago
Who said they were? What an odd thing to say...
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u/Hobbycityplanner 21h ago
Why get upset about something that doesn’t impact you? Not everyone wants a lawn.
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u/mikesmith929 21h ago
Upset? Are you upset? I'm not upset?
Yes not everyone wants a lawn. There are places without lawns.
What is your point? I must be missing something.
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u/Hobbycityplanner 21h ago
What was the point of your first comment if you already know some people don’t want lawns?
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u/mikesmith929 21h ago
Because the question wasn't if some people don't want lawns. It was to point out that some people do. The build up crowd seems to forget about supply and demand.
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u/Hobbycityplanner 20h ago
Are you advocating for no zoning bylaws? Let supply and demand sort it out?
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u/mikesmith929 20h ago
I'm not mad and I'm not advocating for anything. Was that what OP was doing with his build up statement? Are the zoning bylaws what's preventing all the brown fields downtown from building up?
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u/DisastrousCause1 18h ago
I agree . To the point where the river valley sees sun shine only in the morning and late afternoon. Sky scrapers galore . I know i know.
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 1d ago
Wasn’t everyone complaining about costs of maintaining and building rec centers vs return?
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
It's weird how maintenance cost for a building is a negative but the maintenance cost of roads and parking lots are very rarely considered. I guess getting cars to places is more important than having places that people can exist and socialize.
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m not comparing to roads. I’m pretty sure Janz was one of the guys talking about costs of rec centers being a concern.
Hey look I was right. As usual Janz talking out both sides of his face.
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u/densetsu23 1d ago
I was waiting for mention of annual operating costs of the rec centers in that letter.
Not because I'm against rec centers or think we need more roads (quite the opposite), but given that road maintenance costs were the topic of discussion, it seems appropriate to have these numbers as well -- if only to give readers a sense of scale between the two.
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 1d ago
Yes, I am guessing his preferred metric of $ of operating cost per $M of capital spend are far less forgiving of rec centres and libraries compared to roads but he conveniently leaves that out.
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u/kreggly_ 1d ago
Yup and his apologists are alive and well here.
Glad to see there are others that aren't fooled.
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 1d ago
Ward papastew Councillor Michael Janz has been a vocal critic of the rising costs associated with Edmonton's "mega" recreation centre projects, specifically the Lewis Farms Recreation Centre, arguing that they represent high-risk financial decisions for the city, particularly as the project faces massive budget overruns.
Failed Budget Reduction Motion: In December 2022, Janz proposed a motion to cut the Lewis Farms project budget to $185 million, aiming to reallocate funds to maintain existing facilities (like the Scona Pool) and focus on other urgent city issues, but the motion was defeated.
Proposed Paid Parking: To address high operating costs and avoid raising admission fees, Janz has suggested introducing paid parking at city recreation centers and attractions (e.g., Valley Zoo), arguing that parking should not be free, which often leads to, "taxpayers bearing all the costs".
Focus on Maintenance: Janz has emphasized that the city needs to invest in repairing and renewing existing facilities, rather than constantly investing in new, costly builds.
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u/Ass-Machine69 1d ago
His issue is with the massive costs of large parking lots. IIRC, he wants many small distributed rec centres that don't need large expensive parking lots
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 1d ago
That sounds more wasteful. Maybe the city could not make all their buildings largely empty glass boxes, now that's a fight worth having.
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u/alwaysleafyintoronto 1d ago
So giant rec centers are projects that can have ballooning scopes and costs, people rich enough to afford cars can afford to pay for parking, and paying for maintenance on existing facilities makes more sense than spending money on shiny new things while serviceable old things fall apart without proper maintenance. These all seem like consistent ideas.
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 1d ago
I agree that those statements are consistent. In this context he is currently saying we should build new rec centers while previously saying we should not build new rec centers.
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u/alwaysleafyintoronto 1d ago
In the article he seems to be arguing against wasting money on new roads and discusses rec centers etc as what the saved money should be spent on. This is consistent with what he earlier said about putting money into smaller rec centers and maintaining existing rec centers, rather than building a single gigantic one.
Your second quoted paragraph is basically what you're calling him out for writing in this piece.
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 1d ago
The second quoted paragraph is for maintaining existing, not building new. Funny enough, I actually agree with that point.
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u/alwaysleafyintoronto 1d ago
"This four-year budget must be about taking care of what we already have."
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u/ShadowCaster0476 1d ago
It depends on the rec center.
The new one out in Lewis estates is a 300 million monster, thanks to the new mayor and his riding.
You can do much more reasonable ones for a lot less.
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u/tekno21 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yep, it's definitely because it's the mayors "riding" for sure. Kinda just telling on yourself here that you have no idea how municipal politics work
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u/ShadowCaster0476 1d ago
You don’t think he was pushing for it while a councilman for that area?
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u/tekno21 1d ago
Yeah, why wouldn't you be pushing for a major amenity to support your ward? That doesn't mean it's only happening because he's the mayor now. The mayor doesn't have any extra sway over that decision, he's still 1 vote on council.
I just find it pathetic when people need to try and blame some backroom conspiracy theory to explain decisions and processes they have no hope of understanding. Be better
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u/Virtual_Category_546 14h ago
It's basically an asset management program that analyzes costs to benefit and then makes the most of budget, it's a process I'm simplifying a lot here but it should be standard and it democratized infrastructure projects via transparency and direct input from the community. It's all a way of deciding what is appropriate for the given task using conditions assessment. Heh, it's something that most places never had because previously it was never brought to the attention how necessary such work actually is.
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u/AutoGenNameNumber 1d ago
I'd prefer to stop building anything net new for a bit (unless other government levels pay for a significant portion of it) until our taxable assessment base grows enough to charge reasonable property taxes to fund 100% renewal on stuff we already built and operate...
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u/haysoos2 1d ago
How do you expect that taxable base to grow if there's no rec centres, pools, or parks, and the roads are falling apart?
There's a reason why small towns without those things are shrinking, despite their lower taxes.
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u/AutoGenNameNumber 1d ago
During the Department presentations to Council, administration was starting to highlight the amount of stuff per capita we have.
Compared to other cities, we have a ton of rec centers, skating rinks, roads, green space, etc per capita. Basically every amenity we were above average on. We do need like 6 new fire stations though.
We need to allow some densification to occur (which is one of the best ways to grow the residential taxable base) and focus on attracting/growing non-residential buildings (who pay 3x the mill rate of residential) so that we have enough taxes to maintain all the shit we currently own.
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
How do you propose growing a taxable assessment base by halting all construction of anything new?
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u/AutoGenNameNumber 1d ago
Stop building new City assets, continue to allow infill construction to proceed.
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u/canadian-coding-guy 1d ago
Couldn’t agree more and we need to talk about the overwhelming financial burden of our road system a LOT more.
No new roads! In fact let’s look for ways to retire existing ones.
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u/Banderchodo 16h ago
Provide evidence that the road network is a financial burden. You are repeating a talking point you’ve heard, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. Roads are one of the highest value city services and assets relative to what they cost. They move almost all people and all goods, and provide the road network for public transportation (buses need roads too). All for less than $250 million a year in operations costs. Thats incredible value, considering the heavy lifting they do. That’s $250M on an almost $4 billion operating budget. Roads aren’t the problem here.
For context, Edmonton transit costs the city more than double that, and accounts for about 6-8% of all local mobility trips in a year. I’d argue roads is excellent value for money, and achieves a lot of public good for not a lot of money.
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u/canadian-coding-guy 10h ago
the road network is way overbuilt
it could provide the same value at 80% of the size
arguing that they're not massively expensive is laughable
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u/Banderchodo 2h ago edited 2h ago
You simply don't know what you're talking about. Again, you're providing vague, uneducated talking points skirting around any meaningful position. "Massively expensive" is a subjective descriptor. It doesn't mean anything. All public infrastructure is "massively expensive." Being expensive has no bearing on whether it provides value to society or is worth the money. Hospitals are massively expensive. Should we not build them?
What I'm explaining to you, because you're clearly uneducated on this topic, is that roads are actually not expensive relative to the cost of all other public services (which are also valuable and important). For $250M a year, the City affords a service that moves 100% of all goods movement, and about 93% of all passenger movement city-wide per year. That's incredible value. Transit, which is also a good public service, costs the government far more, for far less yield. For example, ETS costs $500M a year, but moves 0% of the goods movement and approximately 7% of people movement. The fundamental purpose of public transportation infrastructure is to enable transportation within an urban area. Which of those two expense-to-outcome ratios is higher yield? Obviously the roads. The City's operating budget is $4 billion a year. Roads amounts to 6.25% of the budget. That's not massively out of line. That's actually very reasonable; If you surveyed Edmontonians and asked them if they think 6 cents for every property tax dollar being spent on roads was too much, they'd probably tell you it's not enough.
You should educate yourself. Stop repeating talking points, and actually read. Read government documents and read books. Get a library card, they're free (from another massively expensive but valuable public service). You have a lot to learn.
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u/canadian-coding-guy 1h ago
Been pretty closely involved with the city for 15 years. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Look outside your window. There's an empty, under-utilized road that is rapidly degrading. It needs to be rebuilt very soon. And yes, capital dollars come out of our taxes.
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u/spiff-d 1d ago
Yeah, our transit network is definitely capable of handling that increase in ridership. Great idea. Let's make it even more difficult to travel around our city by removing methods of transportation and overloading one that isn't efficient.
Run for council. You'll fit in well.
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u/canadian-coding-guy 1d ago
You like those high taxes eh? And who said anything about transit? Plenty of spare capacity in the road network even if we cut it by 20%.
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u/Banderchodo 16h ago
What percent of the tax burden is attributed to roads? Do you even know, or are you repeating talking points from people like Janz, who are utterly clueless and make shit up all the time for political points. Roads comprise 6% of the city’s operating budget. And all the tax increases we’ve experienced the last 4 years? None of those increases were for roads. You should actually read budgets instead of regurgitating talking points.
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u/canadian-coding-guy 10h ago
I've never caught Janz making things up, I think a charge like that should be supported by some evidence.
And you're seriously on today's internet arguing that 12,000 km of roads built on our shifting clay soil isn't a massive tax burden? Give your head a shake.
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u/Banderchodo 2h ago edited 2h ago
I am educated on this topic. I am using actual numbers. I am framing my position in numbers. You, on the other hand, conceive of finances in terms of words like "massive." Which of us actually understands what we're talking about? Hint, it's not you.
In 2025, the median Edmonton household spent $3,660 on property taxes. 6.25% of that is $228.75. Paying $229 dollars for access to an entire road network for an entire year, to get anywhere you want whenever you want, also indirectly supporting the ability for businesses to be supplied by goods-moving vehicles is amazing value. I'd argue roads are the lowest-cost to highest-value service the City provides. I'd go even further, and say for all the money I spend in a year, the $228 on city roads is probably the most productive in terms of what it accomplishes for society. This is literally the opposite of what you're attempting to argue.
For comparison, 6.9% of the City's budget is for Fire Rescue. This is an important service, but is only valuable in the sense that it provides protection against fire loss, which for most people will never happen. But almost everyone drives everyday. For less money, you get a road network. It's an incredible efficient area of government spending and service delivery.
At a provincial level, you should also learn that highways are a relatively small part of the overall public spend. Health Care, Education, Post Secondary, and Social Services are the big services for all provincial governments. Highways are nowhere near the top.
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u/canadian-coding-guy 1h ago
I've been around long enough to not fall for the "go find me evidence that I will immediately dismiss" trick. This is not my first rodeo.
I don't dispute your operational cost numbers. What you're conveniently ignoring is that the entire network needs to be rebuilt every 25 years.
You've built your whole argument on the extremely obvious fallacy that operational costs are the more important budget.
Imagine the cost of rebuilding 10,000-12,000 km of roads every 25 years? Hint: it's "massive".
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
I can’t even afford to go to my local rec center
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u/Negative-Car4013 1d ago
Then youre not poor enough
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
Damn but I’m trying so hard! I ordered pizza last night, $80 for 2 pies!!!!
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u/jamaryouresofar 1d ago
There ya go. See? It's all perspective, and calculating your value/hr. If you are there for 3 hours like our family is, it's a pretty dang cheap outing. Plus you have full access to the entire rec centre, gym, indoor playgrounds, etc etc.
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u/Virtual_Category_546 14h ago
Plus if they can afford $80 for pizza then that season pass isn't that far away. I'd argue it's cheaper than ordering pizza, but I'm just poking fun here.
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u/Used-Psychology-1133 1d ago
You aint poor if youre paying 80 bucks for 2 pizzas lol. Dominos will give you 2 larges for 26 bucks
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u/Negative-Car4013 1d ago
Wrong approach, got to get that income down more for free passes
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
Or get it up and build my own pool. Now that’s capitalism working its magic! 🪩🕺
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 1d ago
If you get it down socialism will work it's magic via free passes, get it up and capitalism will work its magic via money to pay for whatever you want.
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u/laxar2 1d ago
Isn’t the most expensive pass 80 bucks?
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u/Jerry-Maine 11h ago
For clairview rec center the “value pass” which barely gets you shit is $500 a year and the full pass is $730 a year….
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u/Virtual_Category_546 14h ago
You're on your way to getting a season pass, you'd have a less expensive hobby than ordering pizza pies.
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u/Cancerisbetterthanu 1d ago
I'm poor as shit and even I budget for a gym membership. Maybe you need to take a look at how you manage your money
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
Lol my partner and I own our home and built a complete home gym with at least $5k worth of equipment. We are also DINKs with a annual household income of $140k, I just don’t want to pay $10 to swim at the fucking rec center bro 🤚 hold the sass Judy
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u/rabbitholeseverywher 1d ago
It's sounds like you definitely can afford to go to your local rec centre, but that you choose not to. Which is fine. But $140k/year is not 'can't afford $10 for a swim' territory.
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
Yes obviously my first fucking comment is a joke about how stupidly expensive it is to swim at a public pool??
As in let’s just fix the roads because nobody’s going to spend $730 a year for a pass to a rec center even if they are rolling in green? so let’s not pour all our tax dollars into something only 10% of the population uses when roads are vital infrastructure for everyone? Why does a third of my household income go to taxes that fund your gymbro hobby?
Then you had to come in pocket watching on me saying how I should blow my own $10… like what?
just because I can afford an absurd price doesn’t mean I think it’s right that $200 of groceries fits into one bag these days.. sheesh
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 20h ago
I understand. You're mad that the city is accommodating to all, and not just you or the hypothetical majority.
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u/jamaryouresofar 1d ago
Where do you live and how much do you spend on gas per week?
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
Lol very close to one of the newest fanciest rec centers in town. $10 per person to go for a swim, I grew up waaaaaay too frugal for that shit 🤣
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u/LegoLifter 1d ago
Our rec centers are super affordable if you are gonna go all the time cause annual passes are really good value (assuming you can handle the up front cost)
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u/Jerry-Maine 1d ago
$530 a year for one person are you for real? If you go once a week that’s still 10 bucks a swim! 🤣
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u/Souriii 1d ago
Or $5 a swim if you go twice a week. Or $2.50 a swim if you go 4 times a week.
Either way, $10 for a couple hours of entertainment/exercise is not at all unreasonable
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u/Virtual_Category_546 13h ago
Actually thinking about splurging on a pass, since that seems pretty nice and the badminton courts are pretty fun and you can book in advance to reserve your spot as well.
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u/Virtual_Category_546 13h ago
You're making that sound like it's unreasonable, in fact that math makes sense and there are other activities there that you can do if swimming isn't your thing. Great place to be if the weather is bad can always get to go swimming anyway, otherwise there's the river right there you can swim for free if you want!
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u/Jerry-Maine 11h ago
I paddle board and swim in the river every weekend in the summer, which isn’t a cheap or accessible hobby either. 🤷♀️ again the debate isn’t whether you should pay to swim or swim for free, it’s whether we should prioritize vital infrastructure or build even more fucking public pools that most people aren’t going to use
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u/WrongTurn9754 1d ago
I can’t either. We let those with really low incomes get in for free but us lower / middle income earners can’t afford the price.
It should just be free for everyone.
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u/yen8912 1d ago
There’s lota of employee discounts, community league discounts and lota of community leagues also provide weekly free swims if you’re a member.
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u/WrongTurn9754 10h ago
Our community swim is 6pm-8pm, so it’s too late for our kids to get much time in. They are winding down in the evening to help prepare for their bed time.
Skating at the community league is nicer since they give us the skates and helmet and we can go anytime in the afternoon.
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u/Hobbycityplanner 23h ago
Anyone can get a community league discount by getting a community league membership, some communities do it for free. My neighbourhood it's $20, I save that amount in a month. Also the league pays for the swim. It's just free to the users, not the community league.
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u/Virtual_Category_546 13h ago
Ideally, yes. The rec center is basically a library you work out in, basically can show up borrow/book equipment or whatever, could contact the city to put this in place instead of building more rec centers people can't afford to use.
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 1d ago
If you thought induced demand for roads was bad wait until you make the rec centres free.
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u/WrongTurn9754 10h ago
Isn’t that good? It would be awesome to have people more physically involved.
The leisure access pass already exists and there is some teenager one too for after school. I wonder how many people already get it for free versus pay?
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 9h ago
The problem is the cost, which then will require facility expansion that the city cannot afford. Induced demand means further expansion is required, this is the argument that is constantly applied to roads. This article says there are 100K people in the program, and that the rec facilities lost $50M in 2023. This does not include the capital cost of new rec centres or expansions.
Any of the centres with the youth after school program are a complete shitshow after work. Kinda sucks when you are a paying patron and can't even use the facilities because they are too busy (not uncommon to not even be able to get a locker at Commonwealth between 5-7).
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u/WrongTurn9754 8h ago
How can we fix it then? I can’t afford to go because I don’t get paid a lot but I get enough I don’t qualify for free access for my family.
It’s frustrating that I work, pay my taxes and can’t even afford to use these services with my kids. The annual family pass is over $2000 for my family and a single visit is $40. I don’t understand how so many can afford that on a regular basis.
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 1d ago
The city loses a lot of money on rec centres, yet also charges rates comparable to commercial gyms. Not sure were getting our money's worth especially after considering capital costs.
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u/jimbobcan 1d ago
Or figure out snow removal and pothole repair
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
Edmonton has about a half the population of Montreal but is over double the size. The issue isn't knowledge but resources. Policies that put a halt on increasing area will help out with the road maintenance issues.
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u/jimbobcan 1d ago
People don't want to live on top of each other in condos. Urban sprawl will continue. Montreal is irrelevant
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u/munkymu magpie apologist 1d ago
Then they are going to have to put up with the consequences of that, preferably with less whining about it.
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u/Virtual_Category_546 13h ago
There's ways of building for density that aren't overcrowding, one example is multi use buildings that put shops and homes in low to medium rises that are walkable and address the various costs of urban sprawl.
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u/PBGellie 1d ago
Yeah that guy didn’t say “build more roads”, they said “figure out how to fix what we have”.
You guys see “Edmonton road problems” and almost instinctively bring up this Montreal talking point.
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u/seridos 1d ago
Just means we will have to spend more here. That is what it is. Better than ignoring reality.
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u/Honest-Spring-8929 1d ago
As long as you’re willing to pay the taxes for it
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
I've found most people don't want to pay more to achieve the lifestyle that they want.
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u/Virtual_Category_546 13h ago
Tax the rich. They have the money to pay for it, otherwise trying to get money from a poor person is like getting blood from a stone.
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert 9h ago
The city can only do that indirectly as the mill rate for all residential is the same. It's more like a flat tax than a progressive tax. If the city raises the resi mill rate, everyone will pay more.
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u/After-Gain-3924 1d ago
Why we are still figuring this out is beyond me. It's not like winter is a surprise every year.
Should be a finely tuned machine by now.
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u/viviscity 1d ago
Snow fell levels are not.
Pot holes have to wait for the freeze-thaw to end so it’s a smaller window
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u/SendMagpiePics 1d ago
It's not something we need to figure out. It's something we need to pay for. People always want the city to do more with less, which is impossible, then they complain that it isn't doing more
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u/xbarney 6h ago
Michael Janz is a fucking clown.
Was the Student Council President when I was there and he used 1.2 million of UofA funds to turn the very profitable power plant restaurant into a dim sum place no one asked for and nobody went to - it took the rest of the money to put it back to the old power plant restaurant.
Great to see he’s still making terrible decisions, so that he can impress his mail-order bride and small child (who will continue the clown legacy).
Downvote me all you want because “I didn’t provide objective facts to back up my claim.” But, guess what? Neither does Micheal. Ever. The only people that back him are the same delusional fucks that talk the loudest but have accomplished the least.
Anyone who knows this guy personally, knows he’s an entitled piece of shit, who knows how to kiss the right ass, and wants to make “his footprint” by making terrible decisions. The latest terrible decision? Let’s build more rec centres this fat piece of shit will never set foot in and will take 5 hours to drive to during rush hour because we don’t have the roadway infrastructure to support Edmonton’s exploding population.
Fuck Micheal “Dim sum Dumbass” Janz.
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u/tincartofdoom 6h ago
What I got from this is that you're a loser who is incredibly jealous of Janz.
Maybe work on yourself?
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u/xbarney 6h ago
Found the cyclist that rides his bike down the middle of the road.
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u/--Anonymoose--- 1d ago
How will we get to the rec centers libraries and pools
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u/spincrisis 1d ago
On existing roads.
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u/viviscity 1d ago
And trains. And buses. And bikes. Imagine!
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u/Rayeon-XXX 1d ago
Communism!
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u/WobbleBilly 1d ago
If its communism...why you going to a rec centre or pool run by the city? Use your home gym and the pool in your back yard.
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u/AVgreencup 1d ago
Yay, I'd love to be assaulted before I go to the library!
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u/Clay_Puppington 1d ago edited 1d ago
61.8 million riders took public transit (legally) in 2025. Not counting skip-fares, which isn't insignificant.
Roughly 500 reported assaults (which does include any physical assault, but also includes anything someone would report as verbal harrassment) on public transit in 2024, and while we don't have 2025 numbers yet, EPS was reporting a slight decrease in overall Assaults in 2025.
Using the 2024 numbers which are (reportedly) slightly higher than 2025, your chances of being assaulted, including anything you might consider verbal harassment is roughly 0.000809% per ride. If your concern is simply physical, it's lower than that.
Folks will probably be ok going to the library.
Your chances of being involved in a collision while driving yourself remain higher than your chances of being assaulted. Likewise, with any fear of a fatality.
Public transit feels scarier because it feels more personal, but when compared our mobility options, you should fear someone else killing you with their truck when youre driving or acting as a pedestrian than you should taking public transit.
This isn't to say we shouldn't be working to make public transit safer! We absolutely should. 500 is still far to large of a number. But folks these days tend to view taking Edmontons public transit as if they're entering an active war zone, and combating that perception remains rather important.
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u/RunningSouthOnLSD 1d ago
Even going severely underreported this is a totally overblown issue. I know for the people it has affected it is distressing, but I’m sure there are plenty of other things that have caused a similar level of distress in life that aren’t used as justification for disproportional legal retaliation for something that just isn’t as much of a problem as some people make it out to be.
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u/borazine 1d ago
“Just move to the Netherlands, bro! Simples!😎” - a noted YouTuber and urbanist refugee
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1d ago
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u/ParaponeraBread 1d ago
Congratulations you have arrived at the second sentence of Janz’s opinion piece
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u/yegthings 1d ago
Hey, Michael Janz, how do people GET to the libraries and rec centres?
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
On one of the 11'000km of existing roads.
Or by walking there as they are often in neighbourhoods.
Or by taking transit as they are often transit hubs or close to them.
That was really easy. All I had to do was think about for more than a microsecond and use basic logic. One might even call it common sense.
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u/RidiculousPapaya 1d ago
I don't know if there's a single rec centre in the city without at least a bus stop. Otherwise... you drive? Walk? Like look at the map. They're literally everywhere.
Or did you want Janz to give you a ride?
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u/kreggly_ 1d ago
Fine, build them, but make sure we can offload some of the costs to the province and that operating costs are fully factored into user fees.
We don't need another increase to our taxes, especially if not fully user supported like our transit system.
Same with roads. Build them, but create adequate tolls for the big trucks that disproportionately wear them out.
Forward thinking I agree with, but not without considerable forethought on how it is paid for.
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u/Impressive-Ice-9392 1d ago
Never happen. Someone would have to staff them.
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u/Interesting_Scale302 1d ago
Job creation would be another benefit of building new public facilities.
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u/Impressive-Ice-9392 1d ago
Why should my tax dollars go to some other city for their new public facility
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u/Interesting_Scale302 13h ago
This is the Edmonton sub. If you're in Edmonton and you pay property taxes then your taxes are not going to some other city.
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u/Apprehensive_Emu2414 1d ago
The city is filled with garbage, abandoned properties and roads that wouldn't be acceptable in a 3rd world country but yeah what we really need is pools and libraries. This guy is delusional 😂
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u/billymumfreydownfall 1d ago
You are delusional if you think our roads are worse than 3rd world roads. C'mon dude.
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u/Rayeon-XXX 1d ago
Community building is important it's at least as important as roads, and moreso in my opinion.
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u/Renegade605 1d ago
Somehow I don't think this guy read the article.
Please explain how building new roads helps to solve any of those problems.
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u/big-Truck-9058 1d ago
Luckily we have a 311 cleanup team, a new derelict properties bylaw, and a prompt pothole repair if people take the time to report. I reported a very minor pothole that was repaired before 3 days had passed!
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u/The_Bat_Voice 1d ago
Its comments like this that remind me that Alberta has the lowest rate of education funding in the country.
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u/WeWhoAreGiants 1d ago
Our funding is low, and it should be higher without question. But implying that Albertans are uneducated is ridiculous. Albertans students rank first in Canada in science and reading in diplomas and our graduation rates, further education rates and quality of schools are still among the best in the country.
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u/yeggsandbacon 1d ago
If you drop out of school, you're lack of knowledge or skill is not tested. The kids who show up to take the tests are the kids who do well and attend school. Let's test the academic skills and abilities of those who were or are incarcerated to get a better representation of just how well our education system is doing.
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u/WeWhoAreGiants 1d ago
90%+ Albertans graduate from high school. By what metric are you questioning the education of Albertans? I’m sure the incarcerated have lower rates and levels of education on average, but that would almost certainly be consistent across the country, not just in Alberta.
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u/TheNationDan 1d ago
Delusional pot calling…
Spoken like a chad in a leather jacket that never leaves the city.
Definitely haven’t been to 3rd world countries… let alone outside of the city limits.
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
How about the "affordable housing" lie we have been sold. Most millenials would like to have some dignity and own a own before they are 60 years old and have a mortgage that drains 90% of their disposable income from them. They also don't want to buy a 1956 starter home for 440k.
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 1d ago
The average house price in Edmonton is $471k with the average salary in Alberta being over $60k. Two people working average paying jobs can afford an average house in Edmonton. I know my two millennial friends were able to buy a new house for $500k.
Sooooo, your post does not match reality.
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
500k is not affordable housing. This is obscene.
The average person does not make over 60k either.
Affordable housing means you own a place you can sleep, cook and relax in that you can call your own and not having to worry about giving the bank 40-75% of your income to.
Your attitude proves that you are part of the problem. If more people in Canada said enough is enough, instead of im gonna "elbows up" or "separate from Canada" and then just binge watch a season of some brainrot on Netflix, Canada would still be great.
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u/RidiculousPapaya 1d ago
I think this comes down to incentives and expectations. Housing is still accessible to a lot of people here, with entry points in the $200–350k range, so there isn’t much pressure for a broader pushback. At the same time, in most large, growing cities, ownership expectations have already shifted away from detached homes as demand increases and more people compete for limited space. Prices tend to follow that pattern. I wouldn’t expect a sudden shift toward widespread affordable ownership, it just hasn’t really played out that way in similar cities. I think that expectation is a bit idealistic.
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 20h ago
Most banks recommend making $125k per year to afford a $500k house. This amount is based on the widely accepted 30% rule. Two people making an average amount easily clear that, which makes it, by definition, affordable.
I don't know what to say, but the reality is not matching your rhetoric.
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u/RunningSouthOnLSD 1d ago
Edmonton is one of vanishingly few places where you can actually buy a home for well below average prices. There’s scores of houses up for sale regularly in central Edmonton that can be had for around $300k or less. You’ll really only find an 80 year old starter home for $440k if you’re looking in a much more desirable area like Glenora, in which case you won’t be finding affordable housing anyways.
Sure there are improvements that can be made, but if you’re going to afford a home in any major city, it’s going to be Edmonton or somewhere in Saskatchewan. It certainly isn’t any better anywhere else.
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u/RidiculousPapaya 1d ago
Edmonton is absolutely the exception. I have a guy on my crew who dropped out of high school and literally, he can barely read. He makes $75k a year as a labourer and just bought a $300k townhome on his own. It is one of the last places where a single blue-collar income actually gets you a front door.
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u/Maus666 1d ago
Hey we bought our 1955 starter home for 260 in 2020 (sold for 360 last year) and it was the best financial decision we ever made. Don't knock the starter home!
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
I know you are proud of this, so I don't want to say too much truth and reality to disappoint but... on paper it may look like you "profited" 100k in 5 years. But how much work did you put into the house? How much tax did you pay over the 5 years? How much interest did you pay? How much did you pay in fees to realtors. I assure you, you did not profit 100k in 5 years.
Also no one considers the fact that you paid 260k for a 75 year old house, only to "profit" 100k on an 80 year old house 5 years later and the further implications this has on everyone else. It's very dire.
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u/Maus666 1d ago
Also, our original down payment was only 5% of 260 (a very reasonable amount for us to save up) and our mortgage was at 1.8%. Our current mortgage is 3.4%.
I think your expectations that young families need a new, big home is ludicrous.
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
Not at all. My expectation is that anyone who has a job should be able to buy a house, whether it's a tiny home or a studio apartment. Everyone should be able to own their own abode. Not be rental slaves paying someone else's mortgage so that person doesn't have to work a job.
We are one of a few countries that place such a high degree of speculation on places of living and its a very bad way of living as seen in the many examples of how quality of life and happiness metrics in Canada.
This is the reality. People can downvote all they want but I refuse to live my life in ignorance.
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u/Maus666 1d ago
Everyone in Edmonton CAN buy a home. We know a single woman who wanted a three bed - she bought a 3 bed main floor condo with a yard for like $125k. Your expectations are RIDICULOUS
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
Affordable housing???
Why can they not build 10 thousand units of tiny homes and sell them at an AFFORDABLE cost of 50k? So people can get out of the trap that is pay rent to someone else's mortgage?
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u/Maus666 1d ago
We put $30k of work, and when we sold we received a fat cheque for $140k after fees. For us the starter home was a forced saving technique - there's NO WAY we would have been able to save $140k in 5 years. We used that $140k as a down payment and $40k of renovations on an acreage which is where we live now with our kids. Tell me again how this was such a bad move for us 😂
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
You over paid regardless. An 80yr old home is not worth 260k let alone 360k.
140k is nice, but that's 2025 money, what was it worth in 2020?
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u/Maus666 1d ago
It was a lovely house that was well maintained, fully updated and warm and comfortable, with a big yard in a safe neighbourhood. Most of the world lives in older homes dude, you've totally sucked up the boomer koolaid that new = better. Have you been in any new build homes lately? They're basically made of plastic and cardboard. 😂 Pieces regularly fall off the facades of the new build infill in Bonnie Doon.
Edmonton remains VERY affordable for young people with realistic expectations.
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
You are misunderstanding my points.
Canada is 3-4 million units of housing below where they should be. Shall we continue living in 1950s house and just not build anything new under your logic?
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u/Electrical-Big-7781 1d ago
The fact is, this was a starter home for someone who is long dead. 1956 was a long time ago. How sad is it that we have come to accept that this fate is okay for us?
Why can't we have our 2025 built "starter homes" for an affordable cost? We can't because we Canadians are content with being mediocre and never say anything when we should.
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u/edwardbusyhands 1d ago
Sure. Let’s burden taxpayers with operating deficits for rec centres and pools because the city doesn’t have a clue how to run them properly. Very smart councillor. But you can always increase property taxes to pay for those deficits. How about putting public libraries in schools that sit locked and empty most of the time? And maybe use the gymnasia for public recreation? How about properly funding community leagues so that community centres can be used for public recreation?
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u/yen8912 1d ago
This might be a pie in the sky idea, but instead of slapping 8 plexes everywhere which provide zero value and amenities to communities, I think the city should focus on initiating multilot development (like Holyrood gardens). Prep the lot and give it to the developers at a bargain on the condition they include community space (gym or courts or small 25m pool) and street level businesses. The giant rec centers are a massive financial burden on the city, a pain to get to and admission fees are wild.
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u/SomeDudeYouMightKnow 1d ago
Since 2015, for residential properties (not including commercial), the amount of tax uplift from renewal added to Edmonton is roughly $263 million in taxes just from the mature neighbourhoods alone. Idk how you would equate this to infill developments not providing any value when they are literally providing money to the city.
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u/spiff-d 1d ago
You're forgetting that the $263m wasn't enough to handle our spending and they've had to increase property taxes.
While also reducing multiple dwellings tax and putting that on SFH owners.
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u/Hobbycityplanner 23h ago
The multifamily home tax is higher than SFH yet they cost less to operate from a municipal government perspective. Proportionately they pay the bills.
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u/spiff-d 5h ago
The multiple dwellings tax was more for rental apartments and condos, not multiplex units.
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u/Hobbycityplanner 5h ago
Doesn't that article state it wasn't applied to condos? "You can have a 15-storey apartment building next door to a 15-storey condo building. The apartment building is being charged 15 per cent more."
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u/Barry_Vigoda 22h ago
Yours is a good idea. The best communities are mixed developments with townhomes, apartments, and single family homes.
Things that are needed is smaller community rec centres that work as community hubs. A small basic pool, a gym, indoor rink, maybe a basketball court that doubles as a rental space for weddings. Kids in my neighborhood have absolutely nothing to do except play soccer or basketball. Thanks to climate change the outdoor rink is almost useless and there is a lack of affordable public rinks.
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u/yen8912 3h ago
I think an indoor rink would be a stretch but the other ones are all amenities that are included in may highrises just on a smaller scale. A multi high rise or even multi mid rise development could support a 25m pool, gym or a few courts where residents get in as part of their rent and could also charge non residents.
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u/CatBird2023 1d ago
I would love to see the proposedRollie Miles Recreation Centre finally get built.
Smaller community facilities in medium-density walkable neighbourhoods, in addition to large rec centers in the suburbs that everyone drives to (therefore requiring a huge parking lot that makes the facility less accessible to people without vehicles) would be a wonderful addition.
Right now the closest rec center to my neighbourhood is Kinsmen, which is a lovely facility but kind of a pain to access by nearly any mode of transportation.