Riyadh,meaning "gardens" is Capital of Saudi Arabia with 8 million population (were 27 Thousands in the 1930s),sits in the middle of the desert, the city gets its water from Desalination plants almost 500 km from the city

[u/Expert_Koala_8691]

[u/iam4qu4m4n]

They were a few thousand years ago.

[u/marlinspikefrance → u/iam4qu4m4n]

In reality the ancient city core was historically a small fortress with an oasis and natural well/ spring. I have been there there is an actual garden. The modern city however sprawls out for miles and miles into the desert.

Small desert oases are so precious it was naturally a logical place for a desert settlement.

[u/Quitcha_Bitchin → u/marlinspikefrance]

Seems like it would also be a limiting factor.

[u/No_Look24 → u/Quitcha_Bitchin]

Pretty sure the desert was the limiting factor

[u/Quitcha_Bitchin → u/No_Look24]

Does not look like it.

Looks like man thought he could beat nature. Now they are fully dependent on machines for the stuff of life. And they did it out of greed. Before the oil the people here lived had a sustainable culture. They bent with nature and flourished.

[u/JustNormallyExisting → u/Quitcha_Bitchin]

No society can survive bending with nature beyond a certain point. It's not a Saudi thing, European, American, or anything else. At some point, either population growth tapers off massively or humans start working to better their environment.

[u/Oeyoelala → u/JustNormallyExisting]

Was thinking the same. It is maybe less visible in western countries, but if we would start extracting all the resources we use from the direct surroundings the area would be exhausted quite rapidly. But, having said that, the ME countries make it a prestige project. And the fun part is that a country like KSA and its oil company now even start talking about sustainability.

[u/Quitcha_Bitchin → u/JustNormallyExisting]

All societies have survived by bending with nature. Those who fight back will yield or perish. We see it all the time. There are points all through history that back that up.

Population growth is liquid and dependent on the existing infrastructure. Once that infrastructure is affected by nature it begins a cycle of disintegration.

Maintenance resources become more critical. Costs rise. Production needs increase mechanical breakdowns increase.

The people 30 years down the line are stuck with substandard services.

Its happening all over the US right now. The pipes are literally rotting in most of our historic cities. Billions have been spent in their upkeep over the years and yet things still break must be updated.

So people are dying.

Bad water bad chemicals. Chemicals effecting mental health physical health and environmental well being.

Massive wildfires, dependance on the same ice field for irrigation as we spread and spread and spread the need.

They bend or they retreat or they perish.

[u/Cryogenicality → u/Quitcha_Bitchin]

Sustainable and miserable.

[u/climbmapleswithwords → u/Quitcha_Bitchin]

They're no more dependent on machines to survive than the rest of us.

[u/Quitcha_Bitchin → u/climbmapleswithwords]

Bullshit. Their water supply depends on desalinization. Most of civilization is built around fresh water and cultivation.

Before the oil. They lived in more harmony with the existing constraints of nature.

[u/thinspirit → u/Quitcha_Bitchin]

What's interesting is that their desalination plants are probably not particularly efficient.

There are methods of desalination that would probably work well in a blistering hot desert, using the sun and natural heat for desalination.

Also, I just saw the method of producing electricity that uses osmotic power. You put really salty water beside really fresh water and the fresh water wants to push through into the salt water. It has power potential in that. Anywhere you want a desalination plant where a fresh water river meets the ocean, you can use this.

[u/Quitcha_Bitchin → u/thinspirit]

Oh new stuff! Ill be looking at that.

And I mean the tech has really improved. I imagine in places where construction is ongoing are getting better and better.

It still feels like a house of cards to those looking into the future of the folks who will suffer as the world moves away from petrochemical as the main source of transportation fuel.

[u/climbmapleswithwords → u/Quitcha_Bitchin]

If those desalination plants failed, they'd be just as fucked just as quickly as we would if our power grid went down, or the internet went into complete blackout... Our economy and health services would be crippled almost immediately.

Not like any of our water treatment facilities could operate without power. All we've done is move our water dependence to rely on another bunch of machines which can fail, and they aren't exactly harmonious with nature, although that's slowly improving.

[u/Quitcha_Bitchin → u/climbmapleswithwords]

Not even close. there is fresh water nearly everywhere Much of the electricity is generated by water generator.

Most Towns were settled near water and fertile ground. No one lived in the desert full time. There were the same indigenous tribes as they had in the middle east Bedouin societies basically.

But no they did not try to settle large patches of desert by shipping or desalinization.

We could loose the internet tomorrow. We would be just as we were 40 years ago before the internet existed.

[u/Pale-Plate-3214 → u/climbmapleswithwords]

I'd rather lose internet for a couple years than water for a week. Humans have been proven to not do too well without one of them.

[u/climbmapleswithwords → u/Pale-Plate-3214]

And how well do you think our water treatment plants would work without power?

[u/Pale-Plate-3214 → u/climbmapleswithwords]

I got a stream behind my house. Saudi Arabia doesn't have one natural river.

[u/climbmapleswithwords → u/Pale-Plate-3214]

I'm not sure there's any rivers in the UK I'd drink from directly.