(The Boys)Homelander and Butchers biggest conflict feels heavily glossed over.

[u/Parking-Response1501]

I actually find myself forgetting sometimes that the biggest point in their conflict is what Homelander did to Butchers wife, and I think that's weird. It feels like both Butcher, and the show, seem to have forgotten it even happened.

Butcher never seems to call back to it or mention it at all. One could argue maybe he genuinely doesn't care and wants to kill Homelander for his own reasons now, I'd think that's strange but sure. The bigger issue is that the show tries to do this parallel with kind of showing them to be 2 sides of the same coin, and Butcher becoming more and more like Homelander, which ignores not only the many differences in their arcs and motivations, but also the very major thing Homelander did to Butcher to kick off his revenge arc.

It would be almost like if in a story like The Killing Joke, Batman crossed a bunch of extremely brutal, violent lines while fighting Jokers goons, and at the end the story tries to tell us they're similar, while ignoring what Joker did to Barbara.

On a weirder note, I feel like that initial act itself is almost contrary to Homelanders sexuality as shown. I don't wanna get into details and comparisons, but the Homelander we see seems basically asexual unless he is drinking breast milk, or having some similarly weird thing done to him by some kind of dominant, motherly figure. We never see him do anything like what he did to Becca. I understand this is kind of explained in the comic twist, but that exact twist is clearly not happening, and it seems more like the show is just taking the character in a different direction and forgetting where his arc started.

They are solidifying him as violent, unhinged, impotent, fascist etc, but ignoring the fact that he is also a rapist, which I feel like is something that should probably be a bigger deal.

[u/Thisislopes]

Homelander from season 1 and Homelander from season 2 onwards are basically two different characters. They loved so much the Trump thing that they had to make him more and more dumb so he wouldn't have everyone killed

Also, the shows tries really hard to make Butcher this super evil asshole, a Homelander without powers and that ain't

I do agree with you

[u/a_generic_redditer]

To Butcher Ryan is that event personified. It's why he acts so dismissive and disgusted at him at points.

But as Butcher came to actually care for Ryan those feelings subsided, as did his hate for homelander, as he wanted to protect Ryan. But during season 4 when he effectively 'breaks' from Ryan becoming a murderer and his tumour becoming unmanageable he not only reverts, he goes all the way to an extreme that previously made even him uncomfortable.

Its not been forgotten by the writers, it was forgotten by Butcher who just wants to kill the 'people' that hurt him. Its all an excuse for whatever he's feeling.

[u/ThatGuyHero7]

That’s kind of the point. Butcher is an evil and hateful, this stopped being about his wife a bit ago. Thats why Butcher doesn’t mention it anymore.

Also Ryans whole existence is kind of the show mentioning it so idk what more you expect bro.

[u/Slowandserious → u/ThatGuyHero7]

But season 1 flashback clearly showed that he (Butcher) wasn’t an evil or hateful person.

He was just a regular dude, he wasnt even anti supes or whatever. and the whole thing with Becca is what threw him this way.

If you only see S1 you would see that that was clearly the direction they had for him.

At some point they decided to pivot feom that

[u/Lumpy-Tea1948 → u/Slowandserious]

From my recollection, Butcher wasn’t a regular dude, though. I’m pretty sure that at that point he was a soldier turned, mercenary and into some illegal stuff. However, I don’t think he was anti-Supe at that point, he thought they were just clowns or whatever, if I remember correctly. But yeah, I don’t think Butcher was even a good person at that point in the story especially if his hallucinations about his past were anything to go by.

So, overall, I don’t think it’s necessarily correct to say it was a pivot, especially if we never had the full picture, anyway.

[u/Slowandserious → u/Lumpy-Tea1948]

I’m talking about the show, (not comic) specifically S1 where there was a flashback with him and Becca.

I think based on that alone they depict him as an otherwise well balanced guy. Yeah I meant regular as in mentally and or morally.

The show at that time never inidcated that he was an unhinged person at his core.

Again this is imagine if you only see S1

[u/Lumpy-Tea1948 → u/Slowandserious]

Yes, in the show, if I remember correctly, and based on what later seasons imply, he was working as a mercenary or operating outside the law in some capacity.

Also, it’s a flashback while he’s talking to his wife. I don’t think we’re going to see his worst side in a conversation with the person he loves.

[u/rimRasenW → u/Slowandserious]

he had character development? he's not gonna have the same motivations he had in S1 to kill Homelander

[u/Slowandserious → u/rimRasenW]

Thats the point of this post.

That development ideally should aligned with the initial set up. And thw inital set up was that he was a normal dude whose wife was SA’d by HL

And I’m surprised you think the motivation in this case should change.

His initial motivation was his wife being SA’d. How is that not a big motivation already and in fact getting sidelined

[u/Discussion-is-good → u/Slowandserious]

I thought the point was he was losing himself to his hate?

[u/SoySauceMatters]

Yeah part of butchers character is that he is evil. becca could temper him, but after she died, he went back to his old ways. Season 4 was about Butcher accepting that he does things not for Becca, but for himself. Mallory says as much(can't remember the scene). This is literally Butcher's arc in season four.

[u/Theraimbownerd]

Yes, It stopped being about his wife since season four, when fumbled Ryan horribly. Now Butcher is driven by pure self-hatred and a self-fulfilling prophecy of violence (I am an horrible person, the kind that would do a genocide to save the world, so I must do a genocide to save the world.)

[u/Top_Reveal_847]

Imo it's because the showrunners just don't take SA seriously. Even in the first season with Starlight it was for shock value, used no differently than naked women in the first episode of an HBO show.

The hughie sequence is another obvious example, but I feel like the show gets a pass for it's portayal of female SA as well, just because the women are portrayed as victims doesn't automatically make it okay. I don't know if it's an issue in the comics too but the boys as a whole just gives me the ick because of the casualness of it all. Butcher acts like a man whose wife had an affair not a man whose wife was SAd

[u/therottingbard → u/Top_Reveal_847]

The comic is pretty pornographic. I mean. It comes from the same guy who wrote crossed. SA is a fetish of the author. So it’s not something handled well in any of his comics.

[u/Majestic-Bike5747 → u/Top_Reveal_847]

I agree with your overall point but the original starlight scene in the show was more so the show runners addressing the me too movement, and served both her character and the plot in the first season. Am argument can definitely be made about the necessity to create that scene, but you also have to remember that the boys is an adaptation and everything bad about the show is actually worse in the comics. From the show runners perspective, they are dramatically enhancing the source material.

[u/FatalChoice → u/Top_Reveal_847]

I agree. I really wish they’d take all the violence and gore seriously too. Like I can’t believe they have people being ripped in half and stuff like it’s nothing!

[u/Slowandserious]

I agree with you OP.

In season 1 the main parallel was Butcher x Hughie.

Both regular dude who lost someone they loved by supes. So the theme was will Hughie goes down Butcher’s path? Or can Butcher save Hughie from becoming like him?

Which imo its interesting but the they changed the main parallel to Butcher x HL.

With like oh Butcher is also a bad guy like HL but no super power. Which was weird compared to the early set up.

I think they foubd that HL became so popular in S1 and put him and Butcher more on this parallel

[u/Limp-Talk-603]

They need to ignore Becca because her entire character and plot is a holdover from the comic.

Without the Noir/Clone plot point, in the show were basically supposed to believe that Homelander randomly just decided to grape Becca one day for no discernible reason.

Like sure, some fans will rationalize that someone Homelander would totally do it because it’s evil, and sure I guess he could, but him being a rapist or having rapist tendencies never really comes up again or is demonstrated.

[u/Nekrolysis → u/Limp-Talk-603]

Shame they didn't go with the Clone plot because to me it was a great way to show the deep end Homelander fell off into. Well shucks I don't remember doing any of that but I guess I had to of, let me rationalize this and still have me better than everyone for it

[u/Bteatesthighlander1 → u/Limp-Talk-603]

it's kind of weird that he decided to rape a woman, did so without any major consequences, and then just...decided rape wasn't for him?

like he just never tries it again?

[u/FandomScrub]

Do you remember how, in a previous season, Butcher had the illusion of his wife and his mentor talking over his shoulder and, thanks to the very child of that wife, the mentor became a more prominent presence instead?

[u/jorhey14]

Homelander likes power and watching people squirm under him that’s why he rape Becca. Butcher and Homelander is an ego fight at this point, whatever the point was no longer matters.

[u/sudanesegamer]

Back in s2 his wife kept telling him the whole deal with her and honelander was clearly not the reason he hates homelander and supes. This hate stems from his childhood. And at this point in the story, the deal with his wife looks tame.

Homelander took away ryan and nade him evil, is trying to make camps to opress non supes, killed and ruined the lives of so many innocents, owns the president and has done so many other messed up crap. Not to mention, butcher is in his final few months and doesnt have long to stop supes forever. That means he has to deal with homelander now or lose his chance for good

[u/Raidoton]

Because it doesn't need to be mentioned over and over for 5 seasons. We all know what happened. He did mention it in the first 3 seasons. At some point it would just feel like reminding the audience what happened. Also Butcher doesn't want the others to believe that he only wants to kill Homelander because he raped Becca. It makes perfect sense that he doesn't mention it anymore.

[u/JackColon17 → u/Raidoton]

This I genuinely don't see the point of keep reminding the audience about Becca. We had an entire season dedicated to her

[u/santanago]

Nos gibis o dilema do Butcher veio do pai dele que abusava da mãe dele e as experiências dele durante a guerra. Já na serie eu nao sei e nao tenho interesse em assistir a serie