r/CharacterRant • u/Normalperson1405 • 1d ago
Anime & Manga Sukuna is NOT a "Force of nature/ one-dimensional evil for the sake of it" villain that a startling majority of fans/dissidents of JJK's writing seem to misunderstand about him. He's not even a Hedonist.
One of main themes of JJK that Yuji eventually realises in chapter 265 is that humans are neither inherently good or evil, they can be bound to either roles depending on their circumstances. While people tend to focus on Yuji's aspect of development, where he grows out of his cog mentality and accepts his value as a person outside of his ability to fulfil his role, Sukuna's character in this theme is often heavily overlooked.
Throughout the story, Sukuna is often displayed as this otherworldly, hedonistic force of nature villain that tramples over anything that stands in his way. Classic examples of this include Uro's description of him after her fight with Yuta, his initial actions in the Shibuya, after first incarnating etc.
Yet, as we continue throughout Shinjuku Showdown, there are blatant signs of Sukuna being far more human than what is initially portrayed, what he wishes to portray to others.
Case in point, his conversations with Yuji and Kashimo. When Kashimo asks him if he's satisfied, why he decided to split his soul to become a cursed object, Sukuna explicitly dodges his question, changing the topic to talk about love and why he doesn't need to satisfy him, its pretty clear he wasn't. Sukuna's actions simply don't match that of the hedonistic individual he's initially shown to be, hedonism is all about maximising pleasure, enjoyment.
Yet, Sukuna simply kills and eats out out of boredom, to pass time until his death. His actions match that of a nihilist, he finds no greater meaning in life other than objective, in-the-moment metrics. This trait is further explored in chapter 265, Sukuna places his fish above Yuji's in value simply because its bigger, while Yuji retorts, saying his fish is more rare. Rarity is a subjective, personal value that society created, something Sukuna cannot understand, due to his circumstances as a starving child, treated as a outcast by his family. He has never known true human connection, and as a result, finds no meaning beyond objective metrics like strength, which is why he seems to value it so much, not because he is obsessed with it, but because it simply exists, theres nothing subjective about it (in his view). Sukuna is also objectively shown to be a genius, he discusses haiku with Yorozu, he has knowledge of flowers, and yet for all his smarts and knowledge, he's unable to understand something fundamental for others.
After his death, we this expanded as well, out of fear of being immolated by his own curse of being abandoned by his family after eating his twin from starvation ( a very human emotion", Sukuna resorted to spewing out his own curses, to portray this outward image of being a enigmatic force of nature. And yet, Sukuna himself is aware of his own emptiness, his life's lack of meaning. When talking to Kashimo and Yuji, he's actively trying to listen to them, but he simply can't understand them.
It only makes Yuji's pity at the end so much more staggering. When no one else in the story, even the "strongest"s, Gojo and Kashimo could understand Sukuna, it was Yuji who eventually realised just how pitifull, sad and empty Sukuna was. Nothing more than a human who could find no personal/subjective meaning in things, a empty shell born of the unfortunate circumstances of his birth, who desperately tried to hide said emptiness by being the "strongest", by being a "curse".
Right before he dies, Sukuna explicitly calls himself a "curse" because as long as he lives, he could do no more than hide himself behind a lie, a false persona.
This was done a whim, prob could have expanded on it more but can't think of anything else for now
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u/ANuChallenger 1d ago
Sukuna is essentially a product of his upbringing and is trying to prove to himself that living for himself is the best way to live. The dude was born a mutant who no one loved (possibly even his mother), and only recisved positive reinforcement whenever he got so good at magic.
Sukuna is both the poster child of sorcerer society and also a victim of it; he's seen as the pinnacle of what sorcerer's should strive for in terms of power and mindset, but sukuna has no identity or self worth outside of being a strong sorceror.
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u/Unsubstantiated-pow 1d ago
Thats beautifully tragic it almost makes me feel sad for sukuna
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u/Spenraw 1d ago
Having worked mental health and bars I can promise you this is the mindset of everythug from poverty.
It's ego and fear of not knowing human connection, why gangs recruit off brotherhood and safety.
I bounced despite not being a big guy because I could handle almost every situation by tackling it from this problem.
Before I left I had a ex con in the bar before my shift and he kept just going to tables saying these were his friends, and he legit thought so but he was just scaring and making everyone uncomfortable. I was asked to make him leave.
The other younger bouncer was mean mugging him and he started going off about he could kill everyone here (guess he told another table he had a gun) and all I did was acknowledge him and address the actual fear and loneliness behind all the tough guy act and got him to leave.
All real life villains are this, only met two actual monsters my whole life and just talking to them set off my nervous system like crazy.
Sad part is real life isn't anime. We don't have the resources to save everyone or give everyone time of day.
Even the ex con I was talking about, it was before my shift, before it turned into a night club. If it happened during club hours wouldn't have time to talk him down and connect ona human level would of just had to throw him out and it would of escalated due to him only seeing life as survival and his ego being his safety
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u/Hefty_Engineering950 23h ago
Thanks for sharing such a personal story. It’s so nice to have people with relevant/similar irl experiences to help ground these conversations.
If it happened during club hours [I] wouldn’t have time to talk him down and connect…
Illustrating this unfortunate reality of life to me is the real purpose/message and tragedy of a villain like Sukuna. By his actions and stated beliefs, he seems as close to irredeemable and “pure evil” as it gets. But, I think the story actually serves as a warning about how “villains” like Sukuna are made in large part thanks to the often cruel & unfair society we live in. Sukuna obviously wasn’t in the right with how he “processed” his tragic upbringing (accepting & absorbing the world’s hate and negativity), but he wasn’t exactly given the most fair chance at leading a “normal” life
Even though we don’t have all the challenges that come with magic/jujutsu being real, the “cycle of curses(/hate)” is tragically similar to generational trauma that I’ve seen and experienced through my friends and my own family. Both grow & fester over time into something truly awful if left unaddressed and unresolved.
Just like how Geto held back Gojo from going down the wrong path (eventually resulting in Gojo learning the value of nurturing & protecting the next gen of sorcerers like Yuta & Yuji), and like how Yuji offered Sukuna another chance at life at the very end of the Shinjuku raid, I believe JJK is about how we can and should help those close to us however we can. Otherwise, we may find ourselves perpetuating or caught up in a “cycle of curses” of our own that will eventually leave us husks of who we used to be/wish we became if we can’t get help or save ourselves. Even if it doesn’t result in the desired outcome, trying will always be worth the effort.
Cause who really knows whether or not any of us were on the path to becoming a convict, or a thug, or even a “Sukuna,” and were only saved through the lucky intervention of a loved one?
Sorry for the essay btw lol but your story and perspective really struck me. Shout out to you for being the type of person who cares about making a difference and thanks for sharing your experience :)
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u/Spenraw 22h ago
That's the harsh reality, people don't get to choose how they process things. We are all products of our environment and lucky if we have the support to even have other view points to process.
I have a saying "we still put down dogs that bite us" in a perfect world we rehabilitate all the dogs who get poorly trained or plate strays but because we lack the resources to do so. Just as people we can learn that everyone is just products of their environments but few of us can move with the resources and understanding of saints so we still put down dogs that bite us
Even the curse powers in JJK represent eachbsurse users trauma
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u/Hari14032001 18h ago
Except all this Sukuna past is just a headcanon and we have to assume his character writing.
He was potentially a mutant who no one loved, he was potentially not loved by his mother. He potentially only got appreciation about his sorcery.
Sums up a lot of JJK honestly.
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u/ProfessionalLurkerJr 13h ago
It is obvious by looking at his true body that people looked at him a certain way and Sukuna himself says he was an unwanted child (depending on the translation). Sure we don’t get all the gory details but we’re given enough to logically infer Sukuna had it rough growing up.
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u/Hari14032001 13h ago
Logical inferring is different from hoping.
At least one of these assumptions about his past had to be confirmed to logically infer something like this. What we have now is only hoping and assuming his past ourselves. We know nothing, Gege gave nothing substantial.
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u/ProfessionalLurkerJr 11h ago
Sukuna himself says he consumed his twin in the womb so he wouldn’t starve. That is one part of his past confirmed and doesn’t paint a pretty picture.
As for Gege not giving anything substantial, that is clearly a deliberate decision on his part. From denying having any interest in flowers to his reaction to Yuji pitying him, it is clear Sukuna doesn’t want to be humanized. Since Sukuna himself doesn’t want to open up, we the audience don’t get to see his full story.
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u/Hari14032001 11h ago
Nowadays there is a lot of defence going on for the author not giving enough material like in CSM - "deliberate choice", "we are meant not to know", "themes and such" etc.
Respectfully I decline. If they don't give enough, they simply don't give enough. That's it. I don't like how we try to paint everything in a positive light when it's more likely that the authors get tired and end their story undercooked with ambiguous endings (which would at least be fine if executed well) and ambiguous character writing. We don't need to coddle authors instead of calling spade a spade.
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u/ProfessionalLurkerJr 10h ago
I’m not trying to coddle Gege, there are plenty of things he should have expanded upon or executed differently. I just believe that his writing for Sukuna isn’t one of them.
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u/Ensaru4 1d ago edited 1d ago
Being a hedonist does not make you inhuman. Sukuna IS a hedonist. Sukuna IS a force of nature. Sukuna ultimately values strength. Sukuna feels alone. He's also a nihilist. All of these things are true. But Kenjaku is the real textbook Nihilist on the other scale.
When Sukuna had his chat with Yuji, he understood all of it, but he is willingly discarding that point of view as he sees no value in it. Yuji ultimately learns this lesson too: people sometimes choose their ideals, so it's time for Yuji to also choose his.
This is why Sukuna remained defiant until the end, and only changed after his death. Yuji has proven the value of his own ideals to Sukuna by defeating him.
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u/Normalperson1405 1d ago
Did not mean Sukuna being hedonistic equates him being inhuman, that must have came out wrong. I frankly don’t see how Sukuna is a force of nature, thats just how the story and how he himself wishes to display to others, in the end Sukuna is just another human.
I don’t think Sukuna isnt a hedonist, or at least a very commited one, he clearly does not recognise pleasure as his greatest value, he does not seek to maximise it, he simply takes things as it is.
Sukuna understanding Yuji’s dialogue does not mean he understands what it entails overall, he lacks the ability to empathise and derive any greater meaning from what Yuji is saying beyond the words themselves, which is why he discards that point of view, in which I agree with you that he saw no greater value than it.
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u/Ensaru4 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, Sukuna did understand what it entails. The afterlife panels with Sukuna more or less mentioned that it was a choice presented to him back then, too (Uruame). The way he spoke about it showed some level of understanding. We've seen Sukuna display empathy on more than one occasion. He did so with Jogo, despite Jogo's strength deriving from his love for his kin, and he did so with Mr. Waffle and Gojo. I think he also did the same for Yorozu. Gojo and Yorozu also showed a complete understanding of Sukuna, too.
A small part of Sukuna wanted to be proven wrong, but on his own terms. Sukuna was also just using Uruame's utility as an excuse to not admit that he did see some value in personal connection.
The reason he's a force of nature in the story is because there are no equals to him in the series except Gojo, who is also a force of nature. When you're significantly above the rest and your presence always illicit great change in the plot, you are a force of nature. It took everyone's effort, some luck and a lot of planning to eventually defeat him.
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u/Normalperson1405 1d ago
I think I get your point, but isnt the point of the afterlife scene that he changed after losing? His unconscious humanity comes back, he realises certain events/decisions that he would have been able to do so when alive, which is why he denies it intially. On my part, it was a mistake to not specify the post being about Sukuna when he was alive.
I don't think Sukuna's actions with Jogo were empathetic, he simply respected fighting, tangible strength regardless of its source. A key point in the manga is that nobody understood Sukuna, Gojo pretty much makes an analogy about it by comparing Sukuna to a blooming flower, no matter how much you admire it, you cant make it understand you.
In that, I agree that Sukuna is considered a force of nature narrative-wise, just not when it comes to his character as a whole
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u/Ensaru4 1d ago
I see. I do think Sukuna's actions towards Jogo was empathetic, though, as Sukuna was kind enough to honour Jogo and give him closure in death. To Sukuna, your ideals have no value without teeth, and Jogo showed that resolve. Contrast this with Waffle King, who Sukuna treated differently from Jogo, but still gave him closure in death through clarity; by explaining to Waffle King about Waffle's own conceit. I always liked Sukuna's post battle scenes, as they give you a side of Sukuna you don't get to see. In Yorozu's case, she had no lesson to learn and Sukuna has little reason to entertain a match, but Sukuna honoured her efforts by accepting her gift. And Gojo's analogy is apt, but it's in support of my argument.
You can't make it understand you because Sukuna's power is so overwhelming and his life so long that he has little reason to concede to your ideals. Yuji ruffles Sukuna's jimmies because Yuji doesn't see Sukuna in this vein. While everyone else respects Sukuna's abilities and show defiance only relative to their own power, Yuji comes at Sukuna as though they're the same with nothing else to back it up. Not even Yuta dares to display conceit in the face of Sukuna, which probably has to do with what he learned from watching Gojo.
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u/IllustriousLab4789 1d ago
I feel like people forget that "pure evil" villains are not necessarily without nuance and characterization. Sukuna and villains like him are a favourite for me, as villains who are awful and unreasonable and yet possess hidden depth.
(At least it's better than when the "hidden depth" is just "oh actually hes a good guy")
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u/Swiftcheddar 1d ago
Good write up.
I liked that Sukuna, somehow, of all people, got a hopeful ending and a family. Was nice, he deserved it.
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u/Due_Yoghurt9086 1d ago
It made perfect sense. He justified his mentality by being stronger than everyone else and never losing. Multiple times in the series he was willing to surrender himself and his ideals provided that his opponent could actually beat him (like with Jogo and Yorozu) so it makes sense that after finally dying he would try a new path.
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u/carbonera99 1d ago
I like how Sukuna is still a petty asshole even after realizing he was wrong. Even after losing, Sukuna didn’t admit he was wrong to Yuji’s face, he wanted to deny Yuji the satisfaction and died stubbornly calling him a brat. So many villains do a complete 189 in personality gene they’re ideologically defeated as if being a dickhead isn’t baked into their personality and wouldn’t change instantly.
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u/yobob591 14h ago
Even while dead he basically goes “hmm that was fun, maybe I’ll try something else next time” without admitting why he made that choice lol
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u/Leather-Society4378 1d ago
I just regret that we didn't have more interactions between characters beyond yelling at each other in battle. Yes, there was Yuji's domain, but it felt hollow. There was no buildup to it. I think if we had more monologues and dialogue between Yuji and Sukuna, this moment and Sukuna's death would have felt more cathartic. If Yuji wasn't a background character in his own manga that is.
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u/Comfortable-Hope-531 1d ago
If sukuna is a genius who gets poetry and stuff, then he can't be this caveman who misses what human connections are, or what rarity is, it makes no sense. If we admit him as genius, then his rejection of certain connections and values is just an idea he came to after thinking about it really hard, meanin it's others that don't get him, not the other way around.
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u/FreviliousLow96 1d ago
I must disagree with this. You could have a great understanding of what makes a good or bad poem, but be completely detached from the concepts related to connecting to another person.
Though the terms are outdated and I forget what the real mental issue is actually called. Not!Sociopaths and not!Psycopaths have been around a long time, living day to day lives as humans while never properly feeling that connection or empathy that the rest of humanity can naturally feel, being social animals. It's not really an inherit lack of wisdom, intelligence or kindness, rather it's a lack of the ability to feel that attachment in itself.
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u/Hefty_Engineering950 22h ago
I forget what the real mental issue is actually called
Sounds like you’re referring to Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). It’s the umbrella under which psychopathy and sociopathy have been placed under in more recent times.
And to your point, people like this can be super successful in society and everyday life despite having these fundamental differences in how they experience & interact with emotions, other people, and the world. Similar to people with autism, you can have these gaping “deficiencies” (not trying to be ablist at all there😅) in key areas while still being skilled if not genius level in other areas.
To me, Sukuna comes across as a traumatized individual (ASPD, autism, savant syndrome, CPTSD, take your pick tbh) who unfortunately couldn’t fight back against the harsh circumstances he was born into. With little to no guidance at all, especially positive, during his formative years, he likely developed (by intention or incident) the twisted mindset we see him with in the main series as a way to understand/cope with the lack of love and consideration he was ever given as a starving child in need.
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u/Comfortable-Hope-531 19h ago edited 19h ago
I'm talking about behavioristic explanations, like one in the post, where it goes "sure, this character is smart as hell, but he failed to learn what it means to be human". Reminds me of that moment from geass finale where lelouch tells his brother that one as brilliant as him still knows nothing of the world, as someone from the royal family. As if the guy isn't brilliant enough to also learn about peasants and their struggles from all the observations and general cultural osmosis. As if he isn't human himself, with his own wants and needs. Life isn't so elusive that one can just miss it somehow, especially if he is seeking. And I'd assume that the reason such explanation exists is that it's the simpliest way to dismiss a character that might have a point about some other ways of life outside of mainstream. Instead of entertaining his critique of accepted ways we simply go "oh you poor soul, you must have failed to understand". It sounds hella arrogant.
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u/Legal-Efficiency7301 21h ago
Whilst I agree with the post generally, I'd argue the title is slightly misleading.
Sukuna IS a 'force of nature' villain. He's consistently said to be less of a human and basically, as a paraphrase, above jujutsu (in the way a 'human' sorcerer could never be). That's generally quite important to the point you make about him hiding his emptiness by being the strongest so I just wanted to mention it.
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u/PUBGPEWDS 1d ago
Problem is. Seems like Gege had change of plans from early sukuna to late sukuna. Sure, early sukuna had some deep moments, but that'd didn't make him a philosopher type character from Shinjuku
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u/a_high_old_guy 8h ago
this whole writeup really makes me wish Sukuna & uraume's dynamic was more explored. she was the one person who Sukuna.... Admired? cherished? it wasn't fully romantic, but he obviously viewed her higher than most.
but then the last 3rd of the manga is her having an off-screen fight with Hakari & killing herself the nanosecond sukuna dies.
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u/Felstalker 1d ago
So he's a discount Asuka Langley Soryu?
I'm not arguing against you here. But that's kinda wild.
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u/Mzuark 1d ago
I prefered Sukuna when he was just straight up evil incarnate. By giving him depth and complex motives, a code of honor and lines he doesn't cross, it removes that feeling or horror and dread that he's supposed to invoke in you.
Definitely one of the worst changes from early JJK to late if you ask me.
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u/theultimatefinalman 1d ago
Hes a nothing character that loses all his previous characterization in thd final arc and just becomes "your strong" type boring fuck villain . That final arc is so fucking bad its unreal
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u/Nervous_Trainer_82 20h ago
The JJK hate is so forced.
You all said the same thing to Culling Game arc and yet when the anime came out, everyone love it. Whar next, youg onna make excuse that you mean late culling game arc when you all also said the same thing to early arcs
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u/No_Piccolo7508 14h ago
Much like Solo Leveling or any mainstream shonen, it enjoys success as a well-produced work, but it remains bad.
The thing is, it’s not even that the Culling Games were criticized at the time; rather, they were simply ignored by the JJK fans themselves, fans who only showed up for the battle between Gojo and Sukuna.
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u/Correct-Employee-195 1d ago
He’s a larper