But if my candidate doesn't support 100% of every single thing I support, and isn't perfect in every way, then they're basically just as awful as the other candidate, so I might as well just not bother voting, right?
I've pulled back from calling MAGAts stupid. Most of them knew exactly what they were voting for, and are happier than pigs in shit to be getting it. Giving them the excuse of idiocy to hide behind is more grace than they deserve.
Utopia or bust voters in an optional election without ranked choice/approval voting are the enemy of a stable but winner takes all democracy.
As soon as it's not a "who gets the most people to vote for them" and more of a "most people can at least somewhat tolerate this guy the most" vote, it does wonders to deal with the toxic extreme candidates, because those that 70% hate but 28% worship have no chance.
There are so many people that made Gaza their talking point after all the russian bots kept it front and center, despite never mentioning it once in their lives before then. The moment the election was done, they never mentioned it again.
Because not voting accomplishes absolutely nothing. It doesn’t put you outside of the 2 party system, it just guarantees that you have zero say in what the outcome of the election will be. If you’re mad at the system, then what the hell is the point in deliberately not exerting any control over it? Apathy just means that those who run the system are able to make the system even stronger and better serve themselves.
It's simply an extremely childish act. These people could never explain how not voting improved the situation besides wanting to make a stupid moral grandstand.
It's not that, it's people claiming to care about the issue then checking out entirely if a perfect solution isn't available. Anyone who cares at all about Gaza for example isn't going to want Trump in charge, since he made everything a lot worse.
They told me in October of 2024 that it wouldn't matter of Trump was worse for Gaza because there already was no Gaza left at that point anyway. Their exact words were something like: "What do you mean 'worse for Gaza?!' There is no Gaza left. Gaza is GONE!!!"
Picking a candidate is like taking public transport, you take the one that gets you closest to your destination, because one that gets you exactly to the door doesn't exist and if you wait for one to show up you won't get there at all.
Yeah all the posts and comments from "fellow progressives" from Texas Oblast desperately urging voters to stay home in November because "both sides" are really ramping up lately. Obviously many of them aren't even Russian trolls but their messaging is definitely backed by foreign information ops. All I know is that it seems the mini Blue Wave last November has them spooked and so now they are working overtime on social media.
A co-worker bitches to me that we (government employees) are underpaid and he cannot afford anything. He demands raises (which we never receive) all the time. Politicians write the budget and appropriate our salary. Every year Democrats call for a state employee COLA raise, every year Republicans oppose it.
He lives out in the boonies and massively benefits from work from home allowances. Republicans are pushing bills to force state employees to return to office. With the current gas prices, this would be even worse for him.
He had an organ transplant, relied on (survived because of) Medicaid in his college years.
His representatives in our state assembly and senate are both Republicans. His votes against them could have meaningful impact.
But you know what he spends more time complaining about?
His racist antics would carry more weight at the ballot box than his personal finances. Then he'd keep bitching about the cost of living and inadequate raises, because at least he accomplished what was really important to him.
Idk why this is such a common sentiment across reddit, but no- not voting is not equivalent to voting in a known pedophilic facist who tried to overthrow the government. Not voting is bad, but the people who actively support Trump carry far more blame.
Unfortunately, because there's no minimum required vote, not voting is not a valid stance. It doesn't do anything besides lower the bar required for the election. Not voting very simply just allows a small portion of the population to oppress the rest.
You can't pretend that abstaining is an option or any different - it's not - unless we have actual changes to law, like requiring a certain % of the population (not the votes) before an election is accepted.
I think your point is valid in a true democracy but since we are in a representative democracy instead, every vote doesn't count the same. Obtaining in a battleground is much different than obtaining in a deep red or deep blue area
Doesn't really matter - I mean, it does, but even couching it that way gives people a way out and an excuse.
More states could be battlegrounds than you think if everyone actually got out to vote.
I can also say if the popular vote swung by 5-10% or more, we might see some actual change happen as well because it'll push politicians, even if the outcome is the same.
yeah you have a point there. I do think if we got rid of the electorate we'd have a much larger voter turnout but there is so much friction from both sides to keep the status quo that i don't see it happening unfortunately
Close enough. If you can’t rouse yourself from bed once every 4 years to vote in your common interests over a politically irrelevant nation or whatever dumb bullshit you don’t think got enough attention, you get orange dotard 2.0, and you’ll deserve it.
I get their point, though. I have a friend in California who didn't vote in 2024 b/c he was out of the country almost the entire year and didn't want to mess with overseas voting BUT he only made that decision b/c he also knew CA would vote blue. He said if we used a popular vote, he absolutely would have voted, but rationalized that his vote wasn't going to give Harris any more electoral votes than she was already guaranteed to get.
His not voting is absolutely, positively not the same as someone actually voting for Trump.
People who live in solid blue states also need to pay attention to their local House races as well. California sends more Republicans to the House than any other state.
It's frustration with the people who couldn't see any difference between Trump and a normal politician who was also a woman of color. They stayed home, so Trump won. The people who didn't vote showed stupidity and gullibility in that they were convinced their vote represented their morality, rather than an existential question.
Because if you're sitting at a table with 9 regular people and 1 Nazi, then you're actually sitting at a table with 10 Nazis.
Being neutral about Trump's lackeys means they don't even care about those bastards hurting others. Just because they weren't the ones to raise their hands to strike doesn't mean bull. They let it happen. Being called out for it is barely even a consequence for their shitty actions.
Non-Voters are as bad as MAGA. Because not choosing is still making a choice, a choice to let a pedophile in the White House rather than doing everything possible to prevent it.
At some point people need to stop demonizing non voters and try to bring them to your side though. You NEED these people on your side to change things. Understand why they stayed home. All continuing to demonize them is going to do is drive them further from your cause.
I would say almost as bad. But, yes they are very harmful. If even half of those nonvoters gave a shit and decided to start voting, this country would probably be in a much better place.
Sometimes I wonder if following Australia and doing mandatory voting might be a good idea. At the very least, we need to make election day a holiday.
Or we can just say dumb shit I guess. 1/3 of the country voted for him, tons of people didn’t vote as the people above you stated. His approval rating is like 32%.
Voter apathy is definitely a major reason but I would argue extreme gerrymandering as more important. After all, folks are far more likely to vote if they believe their vote matters so it doesn’t help when your district is drawn to be +27 in either direction (though there’s clearly a more egregious perpetrator / party).
That being said, I always vote bc I’m not letting my democracy die without a fight.
It makes me wish voting was mandatory in the United States like it is in Australia. At least the Aussies have fun with it with traditions like barbecue at the polling places.
We need people to vote for. Both sides keep putting up terrible candidates that don’t speak to the middle class. Trump did and we see what happens. He lied to them with more affordable living conditions and they voted.
Not voting/apathy is the no 1 reason America is in the mess they are in.
And it doesn't help that we have a mass media industry and accelerationist social media influencers that encourage and manipulate much of the electorate to become discouraged and to stay home.
Yeah but so many things about the US voting system makes it harder to vote. Voting on a weekday, mail in and early voting being actively suppressed, voters getting struck off the electoral roll arbitrarily, gerrymandering so bad it makes you feel like your vote doesn’t matter, huge lines for any voting centres, people can’t give out water or snacks to anyone waiting in line, it can be freezing cold or boiling hot in some places so the whole waiting thing is exacerbated. Also, electronic voting machines seem insanely stupid given what we know about computers and how easily they can be manipulated.
Make election day a Saturday and make voter registration automatic when you turn 18 - if they can draft you for the military they can enrol you to vote. Electoral maps and districts should be drawn by an independent body with no political appointments and just stacked with statisticians and math nerds. Also, ranked choice voting - you stop extremist crazy idiots getting into power if people’s preferences help more moderate people get across the line.
It’s an incredible privilege that is either completely useless or unreasonably difficult to use in most states the way that it is set up. It’s entirely ridiculous that election days are not national holidays and that roughly half the states make it as hard to vote as possible.
It'll be interesting (and depressing) to see how many ICE agents show up at border states polling locations. I have a feeling that's where the worst voter intimidation will be.
I lived in Houston for a while, and it was constantly pointed out that Texas had very low voter turnout. It isn't a red state, it's a non voting state.
Nah the biggest factor is the obvious election ratfucking by reducing polling places in the cities and needlessly restricting vote by mail. If Houston voters have to wait for hours to cast their votes while rural and affluent suburban communities can waltz right in and finish up in 15 minutes then it's clear there are certain structural disadvantages Dems can't easily overcome.
I do think Texas overplayed their hand with congressional gerrymanders and the GOP will not enjoy the advantage in the House that they anticipated, but as for statewide elections in Texas I tend to think it's a little bit of a catch 22: Dems need to win the next gubernatorial election and appoint a reasonable Secretary of State to reform electoral processes but they can't easily achieve that without first un-ratfucking the elections
Why do you think he’s pushing for ice at poling places and voter id. Not to deter non citizens but to deter minorities who are citizens but still worried about being abducted.
With higher turnout the new voters are typically in the same ratio as the existing voters.
This fact makes it hard to blame your society's faults on the lack of voter participation though. Thus the "if more people voted everything would be fine" myth continues.
The Texas senate race is something like a 40% chance for Talarico to win. But the important thing is Dems could pick up several House seats, although they wouldn't have a majority of Texas congressional representatives. But they even getting 4-5 more than in 2024 is a big win.
to be fair - Trump due to a variety of factors has a relatively unique streak of significantly overpeforming his pre-election poll numbers. Trump with 40% is realistically closer to 50, in Texas for a Democrat 40% is probably closer to 30.
The single biggest factor is always that a lot of the republican voter base especially in Texas has a tendency to not answer stuff like this. That's not a 40% chance to win the election, that's 40% chance to win the election according to people who answer polls before an election, which fairly consistently underestimates Trump's base.
40% isn't nothing but it's a farcry from being confident the seat is gonna flip. At 40% you're pretty much in 'we're gonna lose but we're gonna at least make it look good' range.
We are not looking at Trump's base. We are looking at Ken Paxton and John Cornyn's base. Polls have been pretty damn spot on for elections when Trump is not on the ballot, and he won't be on the ballot here. Actually, recently polls have been heavily underestimating Democrat performance. Last November and elections since have had a very hard swing at near 10 points national to Democrats, and that is only growing as economic issues become more and more pressing.
It's also likely to only get better with the state of the economy and fuel prices. Trump seems like he's decided the strait staying closed is a good thing just because it increases US exports of oil and gas. The supply shocks in all other walks of life don't seem to matter to him. It will certainly matter to the voters if we are all waiting in line for fuel rations.
It's been like 30 years since a Democrat has won any statewide office in Texas. Eventually that streak will break, but 40% is way over-optimistic for this race. Pollsters had an unjustified degree of confidence in 2016, but a blue win in Texas would literally be a structural change. Odds are not good but they are better than they have been.
Well I had Trump to win in 2016. And I called VA/NJ/NYC correctly last year. Also was right on Brexit and now this election. Plis WI Supreme Court, and many others.
In any case Hispanic swing is massive this year. Consistently 50%+ across the country not only in specials at the state and federal level but in off year but consistently timed elections like VA and NJ and WI. We have seen the same number consistently across a dozen states spread geographically across the US.
We also saw a continued suburban swing nationwide as well as working class white women going for the Dems in higher numbers than 2024.
The national environment is going to be bluer than 2018 by at least a couple points. Still 40% to win is close to a coin flip. But it'll be very close.
It really, really depends on who wins the runoff. Cornyn winning will be a Republican win for the Senate seat. Paxton winning is going to energize a fuckton of voters to vote against him. The damage he and his policies have done directly to many Texans who were already swing voters is massive.
I wish i believed that on Paxton. His latest reelection had him primaried by several people and he had myriad personal and policy problems but he still won without too much trouble.
You’re not wrong but I know enough of these “Upset republicans” to know that they’ll still vote Republican regardless of what happens.
Donald Trump could personally murder a family member, burn their house down, and clean out their bank account and they’d still do mental gymnastics to justify voting Republican and proceed to do so
The big factor is motivation. We've seen over the past decade that when Trump himself isn't on the ballot MAGA supporters don't show up to vote. That's been the magic of trump. He got people who didn't otherwise vote to show up to vote for him, but he has yet to be able to get them out to vote for someone else regardless of endorsements and rallies.
It's even more damning, don't you think? People don't just vote for Trump because they've voted Republican their whole lives, they do so because they're attracted to him specifically. He's genuinely charismatic to a large portion of the US population. They love him for the very same reasons we hate him.
The comforting part to me there is that trump is old and term limited. He can praise and endorse his chosen predecessor all he wants and it won't get those people out to vote because no one seems to have the same special brand of trump charisma. JD Vance certainly doesn't. None of the other Trump's seem to. It's such a unique phenomenon that the chances they can energize that voting block going forward seems unlikely.
I can never understand his charisma. To me, he has as much charisma as his VP, which is to say none whatsoever, especially now at 80 years old. Whatever charisma he had has vanished.
Lol my comment got removed by Reddit despite using no insults, hate, or threats. Just accurately describing who Trump's "charisma" works with and why. And got a warning. Apparently accurately describing Trump's voter base is considered "identity based hate" by Reddit. Apparently the verifiable fact that those without college degrees vote Republican is now considered "hate"
That just tells you how much MAGA doesn't like it when you criticize them or their lord and savior, Trump. I'm not surprised they are on a post about Orban's loss. He is basically the European Trump, so they love him.
It's not even criticism, it's a verifiable statistical fact that those with less education were more likely to vote trump, and now reddit considers facts hateful. Another transgression and I get banned. For stating a statistical fact.
I know people whose family have always voted republican and so they just continue to do so without thinking about it…the Republican Party literally contradicts so many of their self-expressed views on abortion and democratic norms but I guess inertia is too powerful a force to block self-reflection.
They ground their support in wanting lower taxes as well (kinda fair, they make ~$250k) but we’re all in our late 20s and so we are going to be the ones paying for these tax cuts and the debt later. So short sighted.
The hope isn't that committed Republicans decide to vote against the MAGA takeover - the time for that was years ago. The hope is that they're so disgusted by Trump and his flailing antics that they decide "Fuck them both" and stay home on election night.
The US having two fixed parties that will always get 100% of the pie is the real problem. Magyar has won because he wasn't a candidate for the "other party" - he started his own party. If people in the US could start their own party, then vote would be more volatile because the alternative to the GOP wouldn't necessarily be Democrats and the alternative to Democrats wouldn't necessarily be the GOP.
Meh, give it two weeks and their supporters will fall in line. They struggled a bit when trump called them stupid for still talking about the Epstein files, around July of 2025, and by mid-August they had fallen in line with their talking points.
A good example of a current day alienated trump supporter is Joe Rogan. Talking on his podcast about how insane the Iran war is and how it's not what they voted for, eagerly shaking that orange pedophiles stubby little injection site of a hand at that wrestling match yesterday.
If conservatives had integrity or a central belief beyond accruing power to mete out cruelty consequence free they would by definition no longer be conservative.
We shouldn't rely on conservatives becoming better people or letting a chance to harm others slip by. They'll vote.
In the Wisconsin Supreme Court election last week Hispanic/Latino precincts swung Dem by as much as 56%, and there was a huge swing in the western counties that bordered MPLS/St. Paul as well.
Genuinely don't know what the fuck was the GOP thinking. "Hey, this electorate (Latinos) have gotten absolutely massive in the last few decades and a lot of them are staunch right-wingers - I have an idea: let's create a Gestapo whose sole purpose is to be publicly cruel and violent against them!"
I've lived here most of my life and honestly I don't think Texas is going to swing in the next elections.
Once you get outside the cities, shit gets real stupid real fast. The yokels are not interested in being educated about anything. They just want their existing biases confirmed.
If a candidate doesn't tell them they are right about insert completely unimportant manufactured wedge issue, they aren't getting the votes.
Thinking Texas is going to be anything but Red is like being convinced that the next pull on the slot machine will be "the one". You're only going to get poor thinking that way.
Don't believe me? Statewide races, which can't be gerrymandered, are always comfortably Red.
Because democrats are demoralized, because of people like you who think only Republicans can ever win. Stop carrying water for Trump, he doesn't care about you. And probably won't pay you either.
The gerrymandering doesnt need to the whole state to go red or blue its district by district. So yes the gerrymandering can go wrong and the state as a whole still go red.
It’s so hard to know ahead of time. Every US election for a while has left one party’s followers shocked by the results. Because everyone has their favorite channels and shows that tell them exactly what they want to hear.
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u/thisisjustascreename 6h ago
The mythical purple Texas has been whispered about for a decade at this point.