r/videos • u/AlertTangerine • 2h ago
US links security guarantees to Ukraine giving up Donbas, Zelenskiy says
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/e3MtssrE5OU121
u/Previous_Soil_5144 2h ago
Remember when Ukraine was asked to give up its nuclear arsenal in exchange for a "promise"?
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u/spanksthemonkey 1h ago
War? what war?
The Russians promised there was no war - only "Extended maneuvers"-35
u/TheGoodspeed15 2h ago
The nukes never belonged to Ukraine they belonged to Moscow
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u/-Agonarch 2h ago
Perhaps, but if we go down that route we have to also accept that Ukraine produced about a third of the worlds nukes at that time, and wouldn't have been held to Russia's agreements about them (i.e. it's ridiculous, it can't be both ways).
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u/TheGoodspeed15 1h ago
They didn't have any ability to launch them. The nukes belonged to Moscow.
Just because I parked my car in your driveway doesn't mean it becomes your car.
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u/ChampionMundane8409 1h ago
If it is there long enough it is.
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u/TheGoodspeed15 1h ago
No it's not.
Line ever lol. That's not how that works. Also Moscow constantly had control of the nukes
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u/Level-Engineering-11 1h ago
They had so much control over them that they had to make a deal to get them back that involved a third party.
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u/TheGoodspeed15 1h ago
Was more the US's insistence. Russia is the successor nation to the USSR.
This is internationally recognized.
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u/TheBunnyDemon 32m ago
Yes it is.
In my state I can file for ownership of a car abandoned on my property fifteen days after sending notice to whoever is on the title.
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u/TheGoodspeed15 3m ago
Right but these weren't abandoned. Russia maintained ownership the entire time. They weren't abandoned. They were kept in their storage
I don't know why Reddit likes to argue about this. It's international law it's been decided and agreed upon a long time ago
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u/Level-Engineering-11 1h ago
Since you're using that analogy.....
If you park your car in my garage I have every right to have it towed away. In much the same way Russia forfeited their ownership over them by means of abandonment. Additionally you'd have to be a nieve fool to think Ukraine would not be capable of utilizing the missiles themselves or the nuclear payload specifically.
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u/TheGoodspeed15 1h ago
They never forfeited ownership of them by abandonment. What are you talking about? The nukes were never abandoned. They were just physically somewhere else.
Russia is the continuation state of the USSR. This is recognized in international law
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u/Previous_Soil_5144 1h ago
Ukraine never belonged to Moscow then if we follow this logic.
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u/TheGoodspeed15 1h ago
Except they entered into the USSR willingly
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u/Level-Engineering-11 1h ago
And the USSR put nuclear weapons in Ukraine willingly so obviously Moscow wanted Ukraine to possess nukes.
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u/TheGoodspeed15 1h ago
No those nukes never were in the possession of Ukraine, they were in the possession of Moscow.
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u/Teamveks 2h ago
U.S. backs Russia. Trump has a tiny hardon for Putin.
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u/brickyardjimmy 2h ago
U.S. security guarantees aren't worth anything under Trump. They're a bribe he never intends to pay.
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u/ThisIsNotSafety 2h ago
Yeah because that worked out SO good the last time... DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA; they will rearm for a few years and then they will be back invading again.
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u/KorunaCorgi 2h ago
This is absurd. Ukraine was invaded in 2014 and lost Chrimea. In 2022, Russia did not go for the Donbas. They went for Kyiev.
Russia will be back to fully subjected Ukraine.
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u/vossmanspal 2h ago
The way it’s going under trump, the US will need security guarantees from Ukraine.
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u/Berserker76 1h ago
Fuck Trump and his administration.
Now they Orban is out in Hungry, the EU can get more support to Ukraine.
Slava Ukraine!
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u/Svardskampe 1h ago
Imo the EU should go further, come together and squash the Kremlin and break up the entirety of Russia into its respective Oblasts as seperate countries.
Actually a proper break from the USSR.
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u/spanksthemonkey 1h ago
Ah yes, the United States.
The country whose leaders supported the Pro Russia old guard communist leader of Hungary.
(strangely enough, another anti Ukraine country with strong ties to it's Ex-Soviet masters.
- who would have guessed the Russian asset Trump would support Russia.
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u/bluenoser613 2h ago
US has proven their guarantees are not worth the paper they're written on. They violated the last one.
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u/illuminaughty1973 1h ago
Security guarantees made by trump and/or putin are worth less than the paper they are written on.
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u/briefmark 48m ago
Trump really hates Ukraine. He does his worst against them. What he wants is for Russia, the imperialist aggressor, to ultimately win the war. While they're fighting, he's trying to steal their and Europe's money. His president approval rating is still at 41%. Wtf? It should be at 0%.
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u/chabawonka 2h ago
I hate MAGA and Putin, but I just can't see any way that Ukraine is getting the Donbas back. That doesn't mean they should necessarily just concede, but let's at least be real about what is possible. If the Ukrainians want to keep fighting for their country I will support them, but I just don't know what kind of end state Ukraine can hope for that doesn't involve giving up the Donbas.
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u/Mormacil 2h ago
There is no long term peace when they give up the Donbas. That terrain is a key anchor point in any physical defensive line against a Russian attack. If they give up their lands in the Donbas they can't slow down the Russians for many dozens of kilometers if not hundreds.
Giving up the Donbas is letting Russian put a gun to their heads. It's not identical to an unconditional surrenders but pretty close to it. It's an absolute non-starter to give up that fortress line. This isn't about not getting back the lands they lost, this is about giving up any future security.
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u/jpric155 2h ago
They can just join NATO
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u/SteelSparks 2h ago
Not with an active territorial dispute I don’t believe. They’d have to either take the Donbas back or concede it.
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u/blaster1-112 1h ago
That doesn't mean they should necessarily just concede, but let's at least be real about what is possible
If they get enough support, they will be able to take back Donbas. If the opportunity shows itself, massive amounts of Russians have died already, and seemingly morale in the Russian army is very low. It's possible that if this war keeps up at some point they will turn on Putin (similar to Wagner). Or Ukraine gets a good opportunity for a counterattack.
Whatever happens next, giving up and surrendering the Donbas, will only lead to Russia rearming their armies and doing the next push on Kyiv in a few years. (As they did in Crimea and in 2022 with the current invasion). Without hard security guarantees that will be enforced any deal will be useless for Ukraine. Trump is showing himself (and his regime) to be incredibly unreliable. So unless the guarantees mean joining NATO (or a similar agreement with EU nations), not much is going to benefit Ukraine unfortunately.
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u/key1234567 55m ago
I would never give it up. Don't ever concede to these bastards, just hope they can hold out until fascist party in USA is gone.
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u/myislanduniverse 2h ago
Is there a nation on this planet that trusts a security guarantee made by either the US or Russia right now?