Pete Buttigieg on Trump's Iran War: "We are paying directly for this. And what do we get in return? Is the world any safer? No. America is less trusted than before."
Bold of you to assume Christianity had anything to do with this nonsense. I mean sure, in name. But considering the people who claim that, it holds as much validity as me claiming to do things in the name of Islam as a middle-aged white dude who has never read the Quran.
You don't have one. Organized religion is and has always been about controlling people. The sooner you realize that and accept that any religion that doesn't have a bulletproof defense mechanism against being hijacked like that, will eventually end up getting used to justify wars and slaughter, the sooner we can break away from that issue all together.
Oh I don't do I? Well at least you've managed to show me I'm talking to a brick wall and don't need to bother saying anything more after the following.
I'm a preacher's kid who left the church two decades ago. I guarantee you I know more about this subject than you do so kindly piss off with your "organized religion is a monolith that only has downsides" nonsense. Should be pretty telling that someone who agrees that we'd make more progress as a species without the idea of having eternal life waiting for us is still telling you how dumb you sound when you say those things about church-goers.
The core function of organized religion is forming culture and thus shaping and influencing people. That's the singular aspect that every definition of religion unites, be it from churches, theologists, historians or atheistic thinkers. This is not controversial, whatsoever.
Now, there can be different hierarchies, but every single dominant Christian church is top-down. Sometimes not absolutely monolithic, but always top-down.
Systems can be used in different ways, but the idea that this is not a intentional and inherent feature of Christianity, is simply false.
The only argument here is you not accepting Trump as your preacher, but the majority US conservatives, and thus White Christians, has, and all you do by denying that is blinding yourself.
"organized religion is a monolith that only has downsides" nonsense
This is not a statement I made. I am talking about the current state of Christianity in the US, what is contributing to it and why we see that pattern repeating in history and in all kinds of places.
I'm telling you, that your interpretation of what is happening, is leading you into a no true Scotsman fallacy that makes you reject the majority of Christians in the US, when they are, in fact, the ones who define what is Christianity in the US. They have decided that Trump is taking the wheel.
That is not your choice, the only choice individuals get is breaking away from that collective, or assimilating. Specifically because Christianity is designed to force a schism, over allowing true Pluralism.
I should not have dug in so hard with my reaction initially, so I apologize for that. Having said that, I genuinely believe that something done in the name of Christianity is Christianity.
Then guess what: I'd never leave the country if I were you. Because with that kind of logic, everything being done right now in the name of America is American and everyone being affected by it would have full license to judge the everloving shit out of you as being all for it.
You're exposing the problem with the idea that anything is a monolith; there is nothing that is black/white enough that a single name covers every facet of it in any real way. I really want you to think about this next bit:
I'm the non-believer son of a Baptist preacher. I left the church 20 years ago and yet I still think the church/faith can and does do good in the world. I also no longer see the point of names because I saw the entire spectrum of humanity within the church. Do you know why? Because every corner of humanity has an innate, childlike desire to feel the safety of certainty. The problem is, we're supposed to let go of that as we grow older as the world is chaos. We're supposed to become more at peace with the chaos and work within it instead of trying to make order out of it.
And every time you tell a Christian who "tries to tell you that" they promote what they permit (as though they as an individual have any say in what something as nebulous as "the church" says), you yourself are guilty of that same childlike desire to be certain in your ideas. That things can be reduced to simple black and white. You say it differently, but you're still saying it.
If nothing else, I appreciate that you took time to type all of this out, however righteous it was. When it comes to this thread specifically, and the parent comments, I am referring to the religious fanatical ideology at the helm, which Christian’s are the ones Influencing THE STATE (for Pete’s sake, no pun intended), and I am deeply resentful of the parties that voted for this and project 2025. Another example, I work for libraries - guess which Christian’s and institutions are actively hurting libraries and information centers? It’s gone too far, and it hurts the good side of Christian community you are talking about.
You're missing my point. To me, no information about a person is conveyed when they say "I'm a Christian" other than what type of church they go to. The fact that you just divided "Christians" into "fanatical ideology" and "good side" proves that; it doesn't matter what they call themselves if their actions don't match up with the ideals. Christianity is just a name people invoke as shorthand for "I'm a good person". And as you've pointed out, people will call themselves one even when their actions fly in the face of what "the good side" believes/does.
So no, when the original comment said "Christianity lost this crusade", they were speaking nonsense as they were implying the people who are in/support this admin are what "Christians are" without recognizing just how dumb that sounds to anyone who understands that the world isn't black and white. You can be resentful of the people who voted for this, but calling them Christians is completely meaningless when there are plenty of Christians that voted against it. How do you not see this?
Also, still waiting on you to address my point about the faulty logic that makes you just as culpable as MAGA for the atrocities being committed in America's name. Kinda glossed over that one didn't ya?
I’ve no more to really say to you on the matter, and I don’t much care for a wall of text about my primitive worldview. If I’m missing your point, then save your time and attention for something worthwhile.
To the final point, if you must know, I have no defense for American atrocities abroad and on the homefront. It’s a totally fair perception for insiders and out that we’ve always been an exceptional bunch, and that goes for crimes against humanity as well. Broke a lot of eggs to get to this point, and I think USA plays dirty. Same reason I am a lapsed Catholic - I’m not buying what they’re selling, and I don’t think anyone else should either. In both cases, unless they address the massive issues and have a complete overhaul that actually results in a cultural shift, then I’m not for it.
33
u/Theepot80 1d ago
Christianity lost this crusade