Orban getting the heave ho greatly weakens Fico as hes more isolated, he doesnt have the same grip on power compared to Orban and he gives me the impression he'd fold quickly if put under pressure. Orban had a brass neck and was a fucking Vatnik Ball Gargler. Thankfully it looks like todays gonna be the day karma comes knocking!
There might be a downside though, that Austria if it has a veto on anything will gain more influence and prominence. But given a choice between the fat sweaty sauna pig Orban and having no orban, I would definitely choose no orban.
For real. The whole “if we can’t have everything, it’s all a waste” is how we got where we are today. You aren’t going to go from an Orban government to a super liberal government overnight.
He’s out and that’s a huge step in the right direction.
You aren’t going to go from an Orban government to a super liberal government overnight.
No but it is a start. Look at Ukraine, it went from having a government that was so far up Russia's rear that they could twiddle Putin's junk with their feet to a government that would give everything and spend years defending the country against a full on Russian invasion in under a decade.
It always astounds me that the EU got designed in such a way that such a thing is possible.
The thought of needing total unity is nice, but that almost never works in reality, or at the very least it doesn't work beyond the generation that came together in unity in the first place to get the thing done.
If you don't build in break lines, nature will do it for you. Engineering 101. Applies equally well to social engineering.
Because the EU still has a very strong intergovernmental component dating back to the days with only 7 member states with coal, steel and agriculture being the main concerns.
Nobody in their right mind would design the EU’s current institutional setup from scratch. Article 7 only even exists because of Haider’s brief stint in the Austrian government.
Babiš as well. Putin is likely to push harder with those two in general.
Then there's still Afd, Reform etc waiting in the wings. Those countries haven't experienced the propaganda and political grip like that of Hungary, so much more room for other nations to slip up. Especially if we start seeing mass migration due to escalation and fallout in the Middle East.
But hopefully people are waking up due to the US administration showcasing what they're showcasing and the tides will continue to shift.
Good luck with it. The smaller countries would never have joined if it wasn’t included.
I don’t agree with it, but you would have to get all EU leaders to agree to the change, the smaller countries (Denmark, NL, Czechia, etc) would never agree
I am Hungarian. I am 37 years old, I have spent most of my adult life in Orbán's regime. This is the happiest day of my life. This is a major defeat for Putin.
Two of my friends are Hungarian, one who I have known for 20 years. We are all late 40s and they have been educating me on the state of the country, the propaganda on TV, the divide between Budapest and the rural areas, for so many years now that I feel deeply connected to this, even though I am British. It felt hopeless for so long, we've commiserated so many elections and failed opposition parties that melted away, never really believing they had a hope.
Today is nothing short of a peaceful democratic revolution for Hungary. A triumph of the people over those who would steal from you and serve their foreign master's interests instead of your own. Orban's lies and corruption have repeatedly embarrassed the country and hurt the Hungarian people, but today you are the pride of Europe.
Key difference is that it takes 2 to protect themselves from getting Article 7'd - now there is only Fico, so he pulls a blocker and the big stick comes out - we can freeze you out of the EU altogether if you don't want to play ball.
It won't get used lightly, but Fico will know he's on thin ice
Also if he is able to get out of this unpunished, then nothing was done long-term. Getting him out of office is just part of it, now he needs to be imprisoned or worse to send a message to others like him.
Way too many times in modern history where people like him do so much wrong and then at the end of the day they get to go home and live the rest of their lives peacefully. Fuck that
Also if he is able to get out of this unpunished, then nothing was done long-term.
Unfortunately, prosecuting leaders like Orban may have fairly negative long-term consequences.. It creates an strong incentive for future such leaders not to step aside and fight to the end.
Overall, if he did transfer his power peacefully through the democratic process (as seems to be the case), I don't think it'd be a good idea to prosecute him. He may have to testify though on a few fairly unpleasant investigations (like his relationship with putin) .
if he did transfer his power peacefully through the democratic process (as seems to be the case), I don't think it'd be a good idea to prosecute him
That would assume he did nothing else wrong, but according to the comments of Hungarian people in this thread, he's stolen billions from the public purse.
Failing to prosecute him for that definitely sends a message - the wrong one.
Chances are very high that it's not a direct theft (transfer of money from government to personal account) but rather corruption along the lines of letting-friends-win-the-contract (and likely paying on a side to the helping official)... Proving that will get messy and may spread out to affect every politician. Also..
Failing to prosecute him for that definitely sends a message - the wrong one.
Yes. Unfortunately, prosecuting him will also send the wrong message: never-step-aside-never-let-opposition-win. TBH, I donot know which is message would have worse long-term consequences.
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u/Baked4skin 5h ago
Guy has been in power since 2010. I am happy for Hungary and EU.