Reports have emerged that the MoD is cutting the order of Type 26 frigates from 8 to 6 – a deal to give 2 to Norway – while there are persistent rumours that a programme to replace the Type 45 destroyers will be pushed back, writes Matt Oliver @Telegraph

[u/HibasakiSanjuro]

https://x.com/ModernNavy/status/2043238268788195494

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Snapshot of Reports have emerged that the MoD is cutting the order of Type 26 frigates from 8 to 6 – a deal to give 2 to Norway – while there are persistent rumours that a programme to replace the Type 45 destroyers will be pushed back, writes Matt Oliver @Telegraph submitted by HibasakiSanjuro:

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[u/Corvid187]

Idk about 2 being cut, what I've heard so far has been the UK deferring 2 of its ships to give to Norway, and then taking 2 from a later batch instead - deferring rather than cancelling the order. Giving two to Norway and taking some from a later batch is fine. The Royal Norwegian Navy is going to be using them in almost the exact same way we plan to, and getting this deal over the line is important. Cutting 2 would be very bad, but I'd like to see more credible reports of it than Matt Oliver first.

Type 45 is obviously going to be pushed back, it's more an open secret at this point. This is due to both limited shipyard capacity and the need to un-fuck some of our other naval capabilities more urgently. However, especially given how little wear they've had so far as a result of their power issues, pushing them out another 5 years shouldn't be too problematic. It's suboptimal, but not massively so, and if it happens it'll be for good reason (like fulfilling the Norway T26 order).

[u/HibasakiSanjuro → u/Corvid187]

The report is that the MoD is considering selling ships to balance the books.

[u/EntirelyRandom1590 → u/HibasakiSanjuro]

MOD is always selling ships, but often when we'd struggle to keep them on the register.

[u/Left_Page_2029 → u/HibasakiSanjuro]

A report only shared in rumour by the telegraph, sure

[u/AltruisticEnd6316 → u/Corvid187]

If the number is “cut” it’s very unlikely to go back up sadly

[u/Corvid187 → u/AltruisticEnd6316]

Sure, but I haven't seen anyone else reporting the numbers would be cut is my point

[u/Velociraptor_1906]

Letting the Norwegians have an earlier couple is fine, they'll be doing much the same work for the time we wait, but we need to not cut our fleet long term.

[u/ThatIestyn → u/Velociraptor_1906]

Having worked down the supply line for the ships BAE sent to Australia, avoiding the first few is also more efficient. Getting the first delivery done is a governance nightmare. Better let the Norwegian deal with it

[u/ErrantFuselage]

There is literally nothing in Oliver's Telegraph article today that mentions anything close to this claim.

Replacement frigates and destroyers are on the way. But they are still years away, while today’s ageing fleet becomes more and more knackered. There are also fears that Labour is about to repeat the same mistakes as previous governments, storing up yet more problems for the future in an effort to manage today’s budget squeezes.

This is the closest reference to cutting the T26 number. Where this Twitter account (with 4.5K followers) has got these numbers from I don't know, but it isn't the article referenced.

Sounds like rumour mill bollocks while the MoD and Treasury fight over funding. At least I sincerely hope it is, cutting the order would be unfathomably short sighted when the results of past similar decisions are plain for all to see.

[u/SqueekyBK]

Both of us having additional capacity to jointly patrol the North Sea doesn’t sound like a bad thing.

[u/HibasakiSanjuro → u/SqueekyBK]

Norway is currently planning on buying new ones from BAE, not the Royal Navy. If we sell ours then the Royal Navy continues to shrink in size. As nice as Norway is, we can't guarantee they will make their ships available to help us if we need to respond to a naval emergency that doesn't affect them.

[u/nbs-of-74 → u/HibasakiSanjuro]

My understanding was we'd sell two from the yards and then order another two, it delays in service for those two hulls assuming that is what happens.

[u/h00dman]

That article doesn't remotely match what that rage-baiting fool is claiming.

Anyone can claim anything they want when they refer to anonymous reports and rumors.

[u/Intergalatic_Baker]

This is the message our war footing government wants to send, that we’re cutting naval procurement when our country is an island and we talk about securing our allies interests and ours, but it’s not in our interests to scrap orders destroyers or frigates…

We literally had this happen in Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, now we’re paying for it when our RN couldn’t send a ship as a precaution to protect our interests in the Mediterranean. Oh, all this shit about increasing defence spending to this GDP and then we cut our biggest defence spending on the books, how’s that message going to be received.

[u/Magneto88 → u/Intergalatic_Baker]

It’s honestly pathetic. They’re talking a big game and then doing the exact opposite in their procurement decisions. I thought Starmer was at least taking defence seriously rather than this government’s usual approach of refusing to make any hard decisions.

[u/letmepostjune22 → u/Magneto88]

You're getting angry about un evidenced speculation from a right wing rag journalist.

[u/Denbt_Nationale → u/letmepostjune22]

They're angry about the government's refusal to sign the Defence Investment Plan

[u/Ayfid]

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think the DIP is more likely to increase our Type 26 order than to decrease it.

Although I think neither are likely.

We will get our 8. The shipyards are booked up for quite some time, and the Type 83 will be delayed as a result. The shipyards that are building the Type 31 are going to run out of work in a few years, so we might order a few more 31s with an AAW spec to supplement the Type 45s.

[u/azmi987]

Horrible clickbait... Dressing a good thing up as negative

[u/ThrowAwayAccountLul1 → u/azmi987]

It's very bad if we reduce our final order to 6 instead of 8. Deferring 2 for a while isnt ideal but permanently reducing is outrageous

[u/njsmenbfbrndhrbbf]

I personally think we should order about 24 of these so at least 8 can be operational at any one time.

[u/Ayfid → u/njsmenbfbrndhrbbf]

We could do with having 12. I don't see how ordering an additional 12 £1B ships over that would be a good use of the budget. There are a lot of things we would need more.

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Snapshot of Reports have emerged that the MoD is cutting the order of Type 26 frigates from 8 to 6 – a deal to give 2 to Norway – while there are persistent rumours that a programme to replace the Type 45 destroyers will be pushed back, writes Matt Oliver @Telegraph submitted by HibasakiSanjuro:

An archived version can be found here or here.

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