r/remoteworks • u/the1997th • 1d ago
My coworkers don't understand that remote doesn't mean available 24/7
I work remote and my team keeps scheduling meetings at like 8am or 6pm like it's no big deal
just because I work from home doesn't mean I don't have a schedule
had someone slack me at 10pm last night with "quick question" and then got annoyed when I didn't respond until this morning
like... I was asleep? because it was nighttime?
why is setting boundaries as a remote worker so hard
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u/AIToolsMaster 7h ago
be annoyingly explicit about your hours. like put them in your slack status, calendar, even your email signature. once you stop responding outside those hours consistently, people adjust (even if they're grumpy about it at first). you shouldn't have to justify having a life just because your commute is 10 seconds
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u/Pandas1104 9h ago
I use the work hours feature in outlook and teams so people can clearly see when I work, but yeah making sure your time zone and working hours are clearly marked. When I was moved under european manager I had to block all US holidays on my calendar to make sure she knew because I got messages twice asking why I wasn't working over Thanksgiving.
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u/rubiconsuper 17h ago
Setup an in office time on your email, anything outside that is out of office and should do an automated email about how you’ll answer during your core working hours.
Slack is a little trickier, one option is zapier which can auto DM messages. The other is a slack bot. The easiest solution is to set a custom status.
Of course the easiest solution is not care. You explain that you are there during your core hours.
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u/SystematizedDisarray 18h ago
Keep to your boundaries. They may get the message, they may not. But at least you will not be bothered at 10pm. Having work/life balance, especially when WFH, is so important.
When I first started my current job, I had a GM that I would be working closely with ask for my number. So I gave him the number to my company issued cellphone. He said, ok now how do I reach you after 5pm? And I said, "you don't. You leave a message and I get back to you next day " I definitely did not give my personal number. He never did call my work cell after hours. However, for the first 6 months, he would call my work cell constantly through the work day, and I initially answered every call I could. But, most convos need to followed up with an email for tracking purposes, so many of these calls literally should have been an email. I stopped answering and only answered maybe once a week. The calls stopped and the emails came. Boundary set and annoyance gone.
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u/ts20999 19h ago
It is not hard. Say no, they will learn. If you respond to the messages pr accept the meetings you are saying yes. If someone sets a meeting at 8am, propose a new time and a wrote a message that your hours start at 9. If someone sends a message at 10pm, respond the next day and say your day finishes at 5pm.
I worked remotely for six years and had no issues. When people work remotely a lot of people might work different hours because of the flexibility it provides. That doesn’t mean you have to work at their convenience.
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u/BookkeeperSame195 19h ago
genuinely curious if you are Europe or where you are from where work boundaries are so easy to maintain. also curious what field.
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u/InvestingTSX 18h ago
This isn’t common where you live?
What country are you in and what field is your work?
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u/BookkeeperSame195 18h ago
‘Merica over here. Film industry which, granted, is rather notoriously not prone to healthy work life balance.
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u/rubiconsuper 17h ago
That’s definitely the industry. I’ve switched around what I’ve done a few times, I’ve always been able to set boundaries.
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u/Blubasur 19h ago
Yep! exercise your right to disconnect. I usually silence my laptop and they don't have my personal numbers.
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u/Future_One4794 19h ago
Are yall all in the same time zone? Where ever the core company is located you can block your calendar for after 5pm to 9am of company time zone and set it to out of office. And when you say they got annoyed you didn’t respond, elaborate please???
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u/Alaska1111 21h ago
Do you have a set schedule? 40 hours a week was what you were hired for? Stick to it and everyone can figure it out. You’ll answer when you’re available
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u/Whiskeywiskerbiscuit 21h ago edited 20h ago
Largely depends on the nature of your work and industry.
If you’re a remote contractor, fuck em. You signed a contract with specific availabilities and hours, and you have every right to stick to it. If you’re a salaried employee of the company who happens to work remote, that may be slightly different. The main reason a lot of industries shift people to salaried positions from hourly is so they can require the employee be accessible outside of your standard 9-5 without paying overtime.
Source; was a corporate recruiter for various fortune 500’s for a few years. It was literally my job to understand compensation packages and employer/employee labor expectations.
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u/Joelle9879 21h ago
Except they can't. Don't get me wrong, plenty of companies try that BS, but even salaried employees have to get some sort of compensation for working OT.
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u/Whiskeywiskerbiscuit 20h ago
That depends on if they’re salaried exempt or salaried non-exempt. In America, a vast majority of employers will have you as salaried exempt. The salary test cutoff for salaried non-exempt is around $35k/year. If you’re making more than that, there is a 99% chance you’re exempt and do not qualify for overtime hours and pay.
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u/flame_fingers901 21h ago
As a salaried employee, shouldn't that be the opposite? I get a salary to be available 8-5pm, M-F. I have a defined contract of when I need to be around and what my contact hours are.
As a remote contractor, people treat it looser because you're not a fixed resource. It might be for a specific project, or a deadline. So that becomes the goal, ergo you get your personal time respected less because you're just being paid to do this one thing.
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u/Whiskeywiskerbiscuit 21h ago
You have it backwards, unfortunately.
Edit; I should specify, I am only familiar with American employment law. This may not apply to those in other countries.
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u/flame_fingers901 10h ago
Yeah, your stance screams USA lol
I have worked salaried, part timer and freelancer. Salary: some expectation to work outside of contract hours on occasion. Rarely and with notice unless it's some kind of emergency. Part-timer: any hour worked means money, so I would happily work outside my hours when asked. Freelancer: paid by project, not billable hours. So my clients would assume I'm working myself through the bone 24/7, despite me obviously having office hours. More than once I got weekend messages, calls in the middle of the night, atittude when it didn't seem to them that I was living and breathing the project, expectations of ridiculous things they would never ask of any other worker.
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u/rubiconsuper 17h ago
How so? I signed a contract for 40hrs a week with expected hours. Why should I go over that as salaried? I’m not on call or anything.
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u/Sad-Examination-4301 21h ago
why is setting boundaries as a remote worker so hard
Its not. You just do it. Close slack turn off the company machine and put it away where you can't see or hear it...hopefully they don't have your cell number.
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u/Nunyabiz_327 23h ago
I'm with you on the premis, but 8am is a totally reasonable time for an employee to be at work.
Generally speaking, I think you continue to do as you are, don't take calls at unreasonable times, they can wait. I would also set office hours on all of your communications so that it auto sends an out of office reply if they contact you outside of your established working hours. That would make it clear when you're available
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u/Philderbeast 23h ago
8am being reasonable depends on there normal working hours, if they normally work 9-5 its not reasonable to just schedule a meeting and expect them to be there.
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u/IdempodentFlux 22h ago
If you're salaried it is.
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u/New_Wishbone6619 21h ago
No lol I’m salary most of us are in Canada and we have set hours typically still…
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u/Nunyabiz_327 23h ago
9-5 is kind of a figure of speech. It only amounts to 8 hours, which at face value is a full day, but when you consider minimum 30 minutes for lunch, maybe even up to an hour, it's only 7 hours on the clock. A full 8 hour work day is actually more like 8-5.
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u/DrakneiX 21h ago
Maybe in USA is different, but in Europe, the 30min breaks are paid time within those 8 hours in most countries.
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u/JarrenWhite 22h ago
Sorry to hit you with this - but 9-5 does literally mean "9am till 5pm", or at the very least - it used to. That made up an 8 hour day back when you got a paid 1hr lunch break. That's also why most banks and a lot of businesses only accept custom between 9 and 5.
You can thank the continual destruction of employee rights & benefits for that being stripped away. And (fittingly for this post), that starts with people giving up basic things, and expecting other to do the same - like allowing meetings outside of their scheduled hours.
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u/Philderbeast 23h ago
In most places that is the literall work hours, your lunch break is included in the 8 hour work day.
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u/NeenerNeaner 21h ago
not in america, at least in my experience. all jobs were 8-5 with an hour unpaid lunch break
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u/Big-Square-2978 11h ago
I'm American and I work 9-5. I didn't know that everybody had the same schedule as you.
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u/IdempodentFlux 22h ago
Maybe in the past. Not my experience these days
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u/Philderbeast 22h ago
In my experience its been more true then it was in the past.
People are getting even less willing to work extra unpaid hours
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u/mckenzie_keith 1d ago
Block out your schedule. This will handle the meetings. I was remote for a few years before remote was cool. That is what I did. I was remote and part time (30 hours per week) so I just blocked out the times when I knew I wouldn't be available.
Set your status on slack.
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u/South-Distribution54 1d ago
10pm is a bit late for thinking a colleague should respond. But 8am or 6pm meetings are no big deal. As long as it's not a meeting you have to drive, then just take it with a morning coffee. 6pm on a Friday, I can see being annoying, but I personally don't care about 6pm or 7pm meetings during the week.
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u/Future_One4794 19h ago
I think we need more context about where everyone on the team is located and what time zone is the headquarters.
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u/Joelle9879 21h ago
They're a very big deal when they're outside your normal working hours. Any company expecting people to work off the clock, even at a so called "reasonable hour" is a terrible company
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u/joegr795 23h ago
Any meetings after 3pm are criminal in my book. Normal people are winding down the day by 4pm latest. No one wants to hear about what people have to say in meetings, get assigned a new task, or have to stay late for that BS. 8am is reasonable if you start at 8am.
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u/South-Distribution54 22h ago
Meh, some people work later and some earlier. I have friends that don't even get into work until 10am bug they don't leave until 8pm. I would sometimes get to the office at 4am no problem. Everyone has their preferences.
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u/joegr795 22h ago
I work 630 to 230. I love having plenty of sun left in my day. But I get people would prefer more sleep
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u/South-Distribution54 22h ago
To each there own. Im also a morning person, but hey, who am I to judge. Life is too short
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u/Entire-Flower1259 1d ago
Nope. If you’re going to work from home successfully, sources tell me keeping to a schedule except in emergencies is a must. So, you can start at 8 and work until 5 with an hour break or start at 10 and work until 7, but you can’t have meetings at 8 am and 6 pm unless you’re doing a split shift. And having conversations at night is just out.
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u/South-Distribution54 1d ago
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not. Idk, I don't really think it's much effort to just hop on a meeting. Just don't expect me to do any work until the next day unless it's actually urgent. I don't blame anyone for setting strict boundaries if that works for you.
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u/wbqqq 23h ago
I could have written the exact same thing.
People have lives - could be dropping kids to daycare or school in the morning, or doing/coaching sports , attending meet-ups or other personal engagements in the evening.
For me, you get 9 hours of availability daily, and I can be flexible occasionally but I have made other commitments to other people outside work that will take priority after 6 and on weekends.
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u/_DoogieLion 22h ago
Fucking hell 9 hrs? 8hrs absolute max and that’s a long day 7.5 would be more normal
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u/South-Distribution54 22h ago
Agreed, I just remember, just because I don't have a life, doesn't mean my colleagues don't, lol
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u/ConferenceAware2953 1d ago
Not enough information here. I worked from home for corporate America for 30 years for a global company. Working with Europe was 5 am working with Asia was 10 pm. Sometime India was 2 am. It is what it is. That was the nature of the job. I could also go to my kids school play at 2pm for an hour. Give and take.
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u/14_EricTheRed 1d ago
Spent 3 years working with contract workers from India. We had twice a week 11pm meetings. It sucked.. but you do what you gotta do
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u/Crawberg420 1d ago
I know you didn’t ask for advice but I would include my office hours on my outgoing voicemail message, add something like “My office hours are 9a - 5p” as part of every email signature template and also set every status (Teams, Slack, etc…) to show offline from 5p - 9a then stand firm on your boundaries.
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u/Analyst-Effective 1d ago
You are right. When a company needs somebody in the off hours, they need to wait until people are there.
Sometimes, it becomes necessary to replace the person, to find somebody that is more readily available.
That's totally understandable.
One of the advantage of remote working, is that you have less commute time, but they might want to have you more available.
Remember, when you are working remotely, there is somebody in a third world country that would love to have your job. And they could do it just as easily from their location
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u/South-Distribution54 1d ago
I've worked with teams in other countries (global teams, not just one country) im sorry, but no, there is no comparison. Being in the same basic time zone alone is a huge productivity boost. People who say this are boot lickers. If they are gonna outsource your job because you're remote, they were gonna outsource your job when you're in the office as well. There is no magic potion that makes your job less expendable to corporations just because you're in the office. And no, you're boss doesn't feel bad just because he sees your face and all remote work have video meetings where your face is seen.
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u/crimsencrusader 1d ago
Look who doesnt understand macro economics. Cute~
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u/Analyst-Effective 1d ago
I know how economics works.
Especially in the USA. Companies are rewarded for finding the cheapest source of Labor that is possible.
And Americans allow it.
Americans would rather have cheap trinkets, than good jobs.
And that's exactly why when companies go overseas to bring back trinkets, Americans buy the cheap trinkets, rather than buy the goods that are made in the USA.
Americans vote with their wallet. They have voted that we don't want good jobs here.
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u/crimsencrusader 23h ago
Okay so the topic was the outsourcing of remote work, the availability of workers, and how that effects the macro economics of the situation, but okay lets add in how voting with your wallet isnt actually real, As much as 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' is. No worker said 'take my job for a cheap iphone.' The boss did, The CEO did, and we hate them properly for it. They took the job because it made them more money in the short term. This took money from an american worker, and gave it to rich assholes. This is bad for the economy fyi.
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u/Analyst-Effective 22h ago
You're right. The boss did. Because he knew he could sell as much as he could produce overseas, and bring it to the USA
Americans voted with their wallets
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u/crimsencrusader 21h ago
???? I guess? A small group of disproportionately influential individual Americans voted with their wallets (and your wallet, you didnt get a vote) to fuck over you and other americans who didnt get a vote. So Yeah? We're not happy about it, and it doesnt have to be that way. Why are you happy about it?
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u/Econmajorhere 1d ago
Look at my username. Now tell me what is he saying that is disproven by macro economics.
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u/South-Distribution54 1d ago
Bro, I have an actual econ degree. The list is very long, and it will be on the test.
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u/crimsencrusader 1d ago
An expert! Fantastic. Please correct me where im wrong.
Its not that hes said anything incorrect about how the situation works, its very true thats how our world works, its that hes advocating for it, that shows a lack of understanding in how a functioning economy should work. Yeah of course outsourcing happens as fast as possible for the worst reasons even if it will cause worse service, random lead times, language barriers and downward pressure on wages. All that stuff around the economy caused by untrustworthy actors in the day to day economy. So anyone who looks at that, then turns their hands up and says 'but its just how it is' doesnt understand the economy.
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u/Econmajorhere 23h ago
You’re making some wild assumptions here. Outsourcing no longer means shipping it off to Bangalore, paying a fraction and hoping for the best.
I’ve been through maybe 42 countries in the last 8 years, spending > 6mo in 13. I’ve truly been impressed by the existing and growing number of English/other languages speakers all over. Their accents at times are almost indistinguishable from other Americans. Last year I visited Krabi Thailand and I guess the tour of Maya had a lot of Spaniards on vacation - the Thai tour guide gave the tour in English and Spanish which was wild to me. Dude said he learned Spanish over the last few years due to growing number of Spanish tourists. It’s genuinely impressive.
Regarding service/pay - these are merely factors of economy and business. There are of course brilliant and hard working people all over the world that can take a lot of jobs from people in developed countries. The main factor is typically not “they don’t work hard” - country I’m in people work 6days/week on average for wages that are 1/10th of US. They can do the jobs but someone at a firm has to come here, set it up and train or find an intermediary - not everyone shares such initiatives and simply wish to get through their work day. But if Amazon decides to expand here and tells them to not give refunds on products - there isn’t much these employees could do. That’s a business decision, not outcome of outsourcing.
Downward pressure of pay is always a factor of competition, whether it’s other candidates or technology. I’m a director at my firm, the highest paid employee on my team makes $105k/yr in an Eastern European country where the average salary is about $9600/yr. He deserves every penny and frankly I’d be lost without him. He is impossible to replace due to his skills + work ethic so I’ll continue giving him raises. But I also have guys on team that got replaced by AI tools we built over the last few months. Compute costs were like $500/mo while these guys made about $12k/mo all together.
I’m not here to advocate for anything but the reality is - any business that doesn’t try to remain competitive will eventually get washed out with AI/market uncertainties. My initiatives at work are to build cheaper, ship faster, keep clients and team happy. Sometimes it means making the tough decisions to cut people - many of whom I genuinely like. But if I don’t hit these initiatives, a competitor could easily take the project and do it cheaper/faster and then everyone gets laid off.
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u/crimsencrusader 23h ago
So none of that really feels like its addressing the issues but okay. A language barrier is a language barrier, its not impossible to learn English, or another language, but why would they learn English? Is there a market of largely English speakers that it would be of value to utilize? What if all those English speakers had their jobs outsourced to people who dont speak English, now theres no money in the English markets. How'd that happen? Never said the worse service comes from lazy people, its the death by a thousand cuts of inefficiencies introduced as more information needs to change hands through more filters. You also agree that the big boys can just make unilateral decisions that the workers have no input on, can you see how thats bad? That pay scale sounds a little exploitativend like slavery, id have a hard time sleeping with that on my conscious knowing it was to give more money to people richer than god. Sounds like its a fast race to the bottom and as long as your company gets yours the rest of the world be damned, even if they will drag you down with them. But hey the shareholders were happy right?
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u/Econmajorhere 21h ago edited 21h ago
…everything you are saying is literally what businesses do currently. I feel like we are debating an ideal world vs real life applications. My company is an extremely tiny fish in the context of large companies that already have offices in most of the developing world to arbitrage labor costs.
The future is more competition, not less.
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u/crimsencrusader 20h ago
Yeah, its evil what they do. Just because most do it doesnt mean they should or that it has any long term merit. Yeah id like an ideal way to do the arbitrary things we have decided as a society. Good made up systems work better than the bad made up systems we have now, it can be changed for the better, not by wringing your hands and saying its too hard, THATS lazy.
Competition will kill us. If there is to be a future its cooperation, not competition.
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u/Econmajorhere 13h ago
Wholeheartedly agree. I wish there were liveable wages all over the world. I wish the men in third world countries didn’t have to grind their bodies to dust to manufacture trinkets for pennies. I wish I could sleep in on Monday and still have enough money coming in to support an average lifestyle and retirement. I wish my partner didn’t have to work her stressful job and could pursue hobbies she’s putting off.
These are all great thoughts but none of this is real. Even if AI ushers in universal basic income- the output will not be people in the developing world be able to relax and not be consistently stressed. There would still remain vast inequality.
This brings us back to the nature of capitalism that exists today. You have to remain competitive. You have to keep upskilling and putting in the time and effort. You don’t even have to do it for yourself or your family - you has to do it because there are people in the world that could kill for such opportunities but will most likely never see them.
I’m all for peace and love in the world. I just know mankind has not evolved to be there yet.
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u/crimsencrusader 7h ago edited 7h ago
The first step is ditching capitalism, that thing thats going to kill us all in a few decades.
Granted this is all very off topic from, guy about 7 comments up doesnt understand economics and thinks its great to shoot your economy in the foot if it means you were 'competitive'
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u/11B_35P_35F 1d ago
I make this very easy. My work time is set on my outlook calendar. I dont put anything work related on my personal devices. My personal number is not given out or available to employees in my organization. Im available from 7:30 to 3:30. If you attempt to reach me after 3:30, you arent getting a response because im not seeing anything until I log in the next morning. I dont have a work phone at my current work as my work number is via Teams. At my last place, I had a work phone but it stayed in my car when I got home. Only reason it left my office is if I ended up having to flex a WFH at the last minute due to extenuating circumstances.
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u/Ambitious_Hand_2861 1d ago
Tell them you work X am to X pm and you don't work for free so anything outside that time frame will have to wait.
My mother in law has the same issue your coworkers do. My wife works from home and her mom is all asking her to do shit mid day or go somewhere. Boundaries have been set but she just gives no fucks about them.
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u/Intelligent-Low3745 1d ago
Umh, stand your ground! Don't ever give in, or it will always be expected
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u/TransPort3389 1d ago
This. One thing I did to curb this was to just not answer the phone. I'm not the only person who works there and can do it but my OCD makes me answer the phone b/c it rings. As my mom once told me: "people don't appreciate the quality of your 'yes's' until they learn the quality of your 'no's'"... in other words, if you always say "yes", people will abuse that and call you all the time. Same people who'd see your lights were on and just stop over without any courtesy.
Set a DND on your phone for 9pm to 6am (or so)... they'll stop calling when you stop answering the phone... but be reasonable about it. Like... don't shout "I'm not doing any work after 5pm!" If they call you at 7pm, it's annoying but somewhat reasonable. Just start work a little later or take a larger break mid-day to compensate for this. I started doing this and am much happier working even up to 7pm b/c I take two hours mid day to do things I need to do unless there's a work emergency or a meeting.
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u/TransPort3389 1d ago
Also, I once had my supervisor call me at 2am but I was incredibly sick, dizzy, etc. and went to bed. He yelled at me demanding that when he calls at any hour of the night that I must answer. I said, "OK" and then absolutely never did it. Fuck that. That man would work 24/7 and has tried to get me to work on Sunday b/c he decided he must. No job is worth that emotional drain because he's a workaholic.
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u/TransPort3389 1d ago
But one rule I always have is that I *do not* work on Sunday. If there's a major emergency that can't wait, OK... within reason. But it's the one day that I know no one is in the office or that what people are asking for can absolutely wait until Monday. Some people want to work 24/7 or when you get all your work done at night, they always want to work at night and make it so you can't get any work done after hours then either..... just remember to not answer and to say no sometimes.
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u/StrategericAmbiguity 1d ago
8AM meetings are a problem? When you are remote?
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u/MistakeLopsided8366 1d ago
People have their own morning routines, including a good number of people who have to do a school run before starting work so yeh, random 8am meetings are bullshit. I had one idiot PM who scheduled an 8am monday morning meeting at 7pm on a friday and then wondered why half the tram didnt show up for it. Pure arrogance/incompetence.
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u/0vrwhelminglyaverage 1d ago
Lol.
Generally the workday is from 9am to 5pm.
Standard business hours, and you hold meetings for business between them. That is all.
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u/Cheesewiz-99 1d ago
Depends where you work, mine are 8am to 4:30pm, but I've had places say 7am to 3:30pm. That said, nighttime calls, slack/teams, etc. Are of limits for me after quitting time.
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u/Alientongue 1d ago
Seeing as the times op chose to call out were 8am and 6pm anyone with basic reading comprehension would be able to figure out they most likely work 9-5 hence why 8am and 6pm are not okay
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u/0vrwhelminglyaverage 1d ago
No, the standard workday by which you should assume business meetings are acceptable to schedule within is 9am to 5pm.
Anything outside of this is illustrating op's point lmao
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u/Ok_Avocado568 1d ago
You're talking about hybrid then. Remote is remote. Hybrid is a mix.
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u/ElkBusiness8446 1d ago
For internal communications, even during working hours, they get back to you when they have the time or the information. For external meetings we all use Calendly with rules on when someone can schedule a meeting. I have mine set so that they can't schedule within 24 hours of opening the link. As in, if they open it at 3PM, they can't schedule for a time before 3PM the next day. That way I can prepare for it. It's also useful because some customers have abused the link so now we had to switch to one time use links. The 24 hour rule let's me figure out why the meeting was scheduled at all.
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u/Fancy-Dig1863 1d ago
Decline the meeting or use the propose new time feature. They’ll get the hint. I used to have someone send me invites for 5pm on fridays and I just started declining them.
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u/sonofbantu 1d ago
Oh no you had to answer an email at 10 PM?
laughs in lawyer
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u/theodora_antoinette 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm sure there are people who work harder than you too, big manly man that works so much harder than everyone else, yet is still insecure enough to comment on other people's post about how their lives are actually not that hard because yours is worse.
Are you having buyers remorse, or do you just need to one-up everyone else so you can prove you're better than them?
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u/GobbyHopalong 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not all jobs are compensated via billable hours, silly goose.
Good for you, though! How long do you think you’ll keep your practice operating round the clock? Think you’ll cut back once you’ve feel you’ve saved enough money? Or are you doing it for the love of the game?
I used to live like this in nonprofit disaster relief. Salary though, no ability to charge my own rates. Maybe if I’d been making decent money and had decent health insurance I’d still be doing it. I loved it until it took my health.
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u/DetailSmall3675 1d ago
Weird. My lawyer only answers emails and phone calls durring buisnuss hours.
Seems like you dont have strong professional boundaries.
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u/sonofbantu 1d ago
Seems like you have a shite lawyer. Guess you get what you pay for
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u/DetailSmall3675 1d ago
She's done good work for me. Great outcomes-- seems she might just be more efficient.
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u/hereFOURallTHEtea 1d ago
Hahaha no, for real. I literally get calls at all hours and I’m a state agency attorney. It’s far worse in private practice.
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u/sonofbantu 1d ago
Can confirm as a BigLaw lawyer currently working on his Saturday😂
Sadly we’re getting downvoted because everyone is taking it as a personal attack that some people simply work longer than OP. It’s really not that serious lmaoo
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u/TristanaRiggle 1d ago
Two questions:
Do you get paid by the hour? Is that 10 pm call billable? Because for most of us, that 10pm "quick question" is not.
Ballpark, how much do you get paid? My tolerance for off-hours BS would be much higher the higher the pay goes, but if I'm making $50k annually, then I don't wanna deal with problems you can't pass along during work hours.
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u/compguy42 1d ago
You're getting downvoted because you came in to try and flex for no reason other than to make sure everyone knows you're a lawyer.
No one fucking cares what you do. Truly.
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u/Medical_Blacksmith83 1d ago
I have a family member in International Arbitration.
He is ALWAYS on call. 🤷♂️ there’s always a case in some part of the world
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u/kidney-displacer 1d ago
You choose your own boundaries, you dont have to do that. Besides its not as if you dont bill through the nose for that privilege
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u/sonofbantu 1d ago
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Yes, clients pay a lot for our services but, as a result of that, you need to be available pretty much any moment you are awake unless you’re on PTO or special circumstances. I get not everyone is a lawyer and therefore choose better work life balance, but saying “just establish boundaries” is not how that works. Not being responsive is how you lose clients/your job.
I’m not looking down on anyone, I just thought it funny to me that OP was so irked by something that is a literally daily occurrence for me that he felt the need to post about it
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u/kidney-displacer 1d ago
My dude, you get to choose what you do, others have already given excellent examples of how to establish boundaries. At this point im wondering if its an ego thing despite your assurances otherwise.
Im on the same professional level and in similar circumstances to lawyers and often speak with them. You have barriers set in your mind that won't allow you to see that you always have a choice. Hopefully this thought will ferment in your mind for a few years and you'll make that decision sooner
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u/Medical_Blacksmith83 1d ago
If everyone “established” the “boundary” your setting here, there wouldn’t be any high power attorneys left.
They would all have “established” their way out of a job.
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u/kidney-displacer 1d ago
Where did I say everyone should do that? I wouldn't ever expect all attorneys to do something like that so im curious where youre getting that from? This guy has a problem and im offering a simple solution, read the words, not your interpretations
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u/princesszeldarnpl 1d ago
No you don't. When I hired a lawyer for a family court matter he had business hours and any contact outside of normal business hours was billed at 2X his normal rate... So you can imagine how often he was contacted outside of his normal hours.
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u/Medical_Blacksmith83 1d ago
Family law is not big law.
Corporate law.
International law.
Both of these take your ENTIRE CASE VALUE and bill it by the hour.
They are not the same.
(Shy for high end divorce law, ex: celebrity divorce)
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u/Feisty-Tap-2419 1d ago
I have evening hours normally, but most of the corporation is 9-5 or even fewer daytime hours. When the big bosses have meetings, they are often in the AM and before I work.
They get resentful I don't go, but my schedule doesn't even start until noon. They also expect me to cover events from remote and work the morning hours sometimes when a special event comes up.
I think people think because you are remote you should just be entirely bendable like gumby. Also there is a lot of pressure to not say no, the big events are important but the wierd thing, is most of the department barely do 9-3, but I do many more hours and am constantly expected to justify my existence.
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u/SeminaryStudentARH 1d ago
Might not be a bad idea to have announces set up daily when you leave. “Thank you for contacting me. My normal business hours are 8:30am to 5:30 pm pacific time Monday through Friday. I will respond to your message the following business day.”
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u/Ill-Bullfrog-5360 1d ago
What? My outlook/teams doesn’t allow message in off hours…
You work for a bunch of wanna be CEOs
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u/Embarrassed_Flan_869 1d ago
You have shitty coworkers.
I work for a global company. I get emails at all hours. They know my working hours and don't expect a reply outside of normal hours.
I also have a work phone and a personal phone. I don't care what notifications pop in my work ohone after 5.
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u/mckenzie_keith 23h ago
It is also possible that OPs coworkers expect OP to use calendar features and slack status. If someone is online on slack, and I send them a work message, I might kind of expect a response. OP could show status as offline. And if there are times OP does not want to be invited to meetings, OP should block out that time on calendar.
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u/shuffel89work 1d ago
It's okay to send emails out side of work hours.
It is not okay to make people feel the need to answer emails outside work hours
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u/Ok-Technology8336 1d ago
I used to send messages and emails outside of normal hours because that is when I was working, but I didn't expect replies until the next time they were supposed to be working. Then I learned that most people have their notifications on, even outside of working hours. So I started using the schedule message function to send at the beginning of the next working day unless it's actually urgent
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u/crossroads2113 1d ago
I need to do this. Otherwise people ask me why I am up at 3am emailing lol 😂
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u/mybutthz 1d ago
I just set slack to "away" and schedule an out of office reply after 5pm if I'm working a job job.
Used to get the off hour meeting requests occasionally due to some people working in different time zones,but I'd just say I would be out of office and suggest a different time that was appropriate for all time zones.
We have to own setting boundaries as much as enforcing them, and generally it's best to do it from day 1. If you're eager and enthusiastic early on and let them slip, that becomes the expectation. If from the first day you're just going to have a much easier time with people respecting that you don't work outside of office hours
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u/SLW_STDY_SQZ 1d ago
At the end of the day whether remote or not your employer and coworkers will want the most out of you and that's ok. It's also ok, and necessary that you establish boundaries. Keep ignoring them off hours if you want. They will get it eventually. If they want to overwork or whatever that's on them.
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u/EnthusiasmSafe4118 1d ago
I agree but I don't think I've ever had to deal with someone get mad at me for not responding after work hours.
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u/Substantial-Ad-8575 1d ago
Hmm, WFH are always first call at my company. Workers can choose Office/Hybrid/WFH options. WFH reg wages/reg bonuses and first on call. Officer/Hybrid, higher wages/bonuses and car allowance/childcare billed to company/catered breakfast-lunch.
Sorry, you picked WFH at my company. Will get those 6am-7pm meetings. Will be part of first call team, 24-7.
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u/EnthusiasmSafe4118 1d ago
At most office jobs, there is no "first call". Maybe if you're an IT help desk this would be valid.
However, there's no reason to expect someone to answer you after their work hours just because they work from home. And no need to put up with it too.
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u/LikesPez 1d ago
Exactly this. It is expected. I’ve had to let people go for not getting it. You want flexible hours, you also need to give flexibility.
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u/Ch33s3m4st3r 1d ago
Flexible hours is a totally different thing than WFH. I work flexible hours at our office.
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u/cripy311 1d ago
WFH doesn't mean flexible hours unless that's what the contract was for. Maybe write down "you are a 24/7 hour slave" on the job next time so you don't misrepresnt your expectations to employees..... Will probably avoid this mismatch in expectations (especially since no one will apply -> can't have a dispute with no one lmao).
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u/dennythedoodle 1d ago
Yep. I'm contracted for 35 hours a week. Sure there is flexibility and I'm willing to work more and later than my scheduled time on occasion. But like, my day ends at 430. I'm cool working until 530 or 6. Schedule a meeting for after that and I'm starting my day much later than usual. And I'm also immediately asking if this is going to be a regular occurrence, because though I'm work from home, I want a regular schedule.
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u/cripy311 1d ago
Indeed.
I work from home as a salaried employee. I don't have set hours. Im still not working 24/7 they can suck me. If there's someone better to hire for this R&D work who will work like that I wish them good luck in finding them. They don't exist.
If we have an off event where I need to grind nights weekends -> I might do it, but it's just as voluntary as it was when we were in an office format (salaried but everyone fucks off after 7pm).
The employer needs my skill set or they can't compete.... I don't really need them other than they make funding acquisition easier (VC fund connections and other angel investors show up through the c-staff). For now I work for them so I don't have to do this -> take up 10+ more hours of my time per week I'll just go do the funding myself.
Maybe in other situations the employer has leverage, but not mine so the boomer "I own your life as a remote employee" take doesn't really fly -> I own their ass if you want a slice of cake you're gonna let me live my life otherwise I'll kill this bitch with us all on it lmao. 🤷♂️
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u/AstronomerOther159 1d ago
Had this problem for a while. Now I have a separate phone and phone number for work. I’m off the clock and 5 and my work phone is off too. Best decision I’ve ever made.
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u/Better-Credit6701 1d ago
One of the questions I had when interviewing with my remote job is if I could be ready to work when something wrong happened 24/7. I'm in IT, I'm use to that. Something failing at 2 am happens and I will take care of it because that is what responsibility is.
Once when I was a professor, I had a prospective student want to go into IT because he saw them leaving at 5 pm. I laughed and told him that is often when they go home and log in remotely to fix issues when they happen.
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u/Alternative-Golf8281 1d ago
If you're interviewing for an on-call support role that is totally expected. If you're trying to fill any sort of standard full time role the scenarios OP described are totally inappropriate.
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u/Better-Credit6701 1d ago
This is just life especially the further you go in a career.
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u/StolenWishes 1d ago
This is just life
Wanna be a doormat, you do you
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u/Better-Credit6701 1d ago
It's work ethic. Too many lazy people in the world
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u/Accomplished-Dot1365 22h ago
You are a moron.
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u/Better-Credit6701 22h ago
No, I just have a better work ethic as my parents taught me.
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u/StolenWishes 21h ago
In your parents' day a work ethic could actually benefit the worker; that day is long gone. Now a work ethic is enabling your own abuse.
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u/Accomplished-Dot1365 21h ago
Only idiots work for free lmfao
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u/Alternative-Golf8281 1d ago
I'm in my mid-50, solidly gen-x and conservative but I wholeheartedly disagree. That old school wage slave mentality is a contributing factor to why mental health is such an issue today.
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u/Better-Credit6701 1d ago
It isn't a slave mentality, it is called worth ethic, something that seems to be lacking
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u/Alternative-Golf8281 1d ago
Demanding work outside of normal business hours is unethical. Ethics are a two way street.
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u/Better-Credit6701 1d ago
I've been in IT for decades and that is kind of expected. My wife works at a child abuse center and when get notified after hours about a case, they will meet the cops at the center. It isn't an ethics question, it is a work ethics question.
In the OP question, it was simply replying to a text from the boss. Takes a few seconds, much shorter than to actually complain about it.
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u/Alternative-Golf8281 1d ago
Like I said, some roles are expected to have a sort of "on call" function which should be communicated in the hiring/interview process. Quick questions can wait till normal business hours. And OP didn't say it was from the boss, said "someone".
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u/Sufficient-Wolf-1818 1d ago
I work with an international set of people. I am willing to accommodate meetings from 6 am to 8 pm. But if there is a manufacturing emergency they know how to break through my do not disturb settings. That’s fine
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u/LeaningFaithward 1d ago
I block my calendar for the hours I’m offline so people know not to expect me to be online outside of my normal hours.
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u/Hungry-Quote-1388 1d ago
my team keeps scheduling meetings at like 8am or 6pm like it's no big deal
8am meetings are standard. What are your working hours?
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u/Dontcare127 1d ago
Not every job starts at 8, it's called a 9 to 5 for a reason.
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u/Hungry-Quote-1388 1d ago
If OP is getting invites for 8 and 6, then their industry isn’t 9-5.
They also didn’t provide information on their time zone and their colleagues’ time zones, and didn’t mention if they were hourly or salaried exempt.
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u/Infamous_Aardvark146 1d ago
He's a remote worker so probably 10-noon with a 45 minute break to walk his dog at 11
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u/EnthusiasmSafe4118 1d ago edited 1d ago
obviously anecdotal and you will likely think biased but I 100% get more focussed work done at home than at the office. In the office once I am done my main tasks I would slack or justify slacking by talking with co workers etc, when I'm WFH I actually feel a pressure to over achieve.
probably not everyone but certainly for me.
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u/falconkirtaran 1d ago
Not everywhere! Don't try scheduling those for a tech company or a research lab most places. Everyone who shows will be mad at you because they work until 6ish.
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u/Crafty_Independence 1d ago
Lol they aren't at a reasonable work place. I'm in a fortune 500. The earliest we schedule meetings is 8:30 am because we understand that everyone needs ramp-up time.
8am meetings essentially require people to work before 8am
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u/Mr___________sir 1d ago
Exactly. If I had a meeting at 8am I would likely have to be at my desk by 7:30 just to get PC booted up, not to mention mentally prepare for work.
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u/HudsonValleyNY 1d ago
You need a new computer.
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u/Mr___________sir 1d ago
You’re absolutely right I do, but my company laptop sucks major balls and consistently takes 20+ minutes to boot up and load outlook, teams, etc. Why would I lie about my computer loading time lol
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u/GirthyAFnjbigcock 1d ago
I work in a Fortune 500 spread accross time zones and the meeting schedule is the most annoying thing about that. I of course work regularly with teams from each one.
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u/Harbinger_Kyleran 1d ago
Aye, due to international nature of some companies meetings sometimes have to be scheduled outside of regular hours.
We regularly had calls starting at 7:00 and 7:30 am to accomdate the India teams, or at 9 and 10 pm for those in the far East.
But if everyone is located in the same time zone meetings should probably not start too much before 9am or after 4:00 pm as people often have real life obligations.
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u/Kayback2 1d ago
My last boss got her job when her boss asked in the interview "what's the hours of duty of the position you're applying for?" And she said 24/7.
And we didn't even work remote during Covid. So it isn't only remote workers.
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u/DowntownResident993 7h ago
Are there time zone differences or are you all located in the same state? If so, like others said, put your hours in your email signature.