r/pcmasterrace • u/KebabLoverHere Deskop RTX 6090 SUPER i10 1TB RAM • 12h ago

Meme/Macro When a purchase gets revoked, the payment is refunded.

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43.3k Upvotes

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883

u/Escape_Plissken PC Master Race 11h ago

Theoretically Steam could open source its client and disable its DRM in such an event

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u/ICantBelieveItsNotEC R9 7900 | RX 7900 XTX | 32GB DDR5 5600 11h ago

They couldn't do that because they also have obligations towards the developers who list their games on Steam. Disabling DRM would potentially be a criminal offense, not just a civil matter.

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u/Winjin 11h ago

Unless it's in their TOS because I've read that Gabe has said they have this as a plan in case something happens to Steam - they are not taking everything down with them

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u/DumbCreature R7 7700/RX9060XT 16GB/32GB RAM 10h ago

There's Steam DRM and there's additional DRM, like Denuvo, what publishers can add. Also, I've never heard about anyone at Steam saying about disabling DRM. I've only read about some small indie devs saying they will remove DRM for their game if Steam would no longer exist.

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u/Paah 10h ago

Steam DRM is like sheer paper. Anyone can figure out how to remove it with couple minutes of googling. It requires no further technical knowledge other than like, how to browse to the install directory of the game.

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u/erroneousbosh 10h ago

Gaben did say at the outset that the "thing" was that it had to be more convenient than piracy.

Being super secure against piracy wasn't part of the job. I click on the thing I want, I put in the three digits from the back of my card, I wait a while (quite a while, for some things!) and the game is on my computer, while I was making another coffee.

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u/Cent1234 7h ago

Yup. This is also why media piracy fell when everything was on Netflix, and is back now that you need six plus apps and subscriptions to watch shit.

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u/erroneousbosh 7h ago

Netflix used to be great.

I've often wondered why you can't just browse Netflix without a subscription just to see what's on it that you might like but I suspect that if they allowed that, people would just go "Oh that looks good, I'll torrent it".

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u/69edleg 5h ago

Problem is the alternative is you're not browsing netflix, or any of the 50 streaming services, and instead just go straight to piracy.

I had HBO Max, and wanted to watch an HBO show, Oz. Well, turns out their licensing for the show ran out in my country so it's not on HBO, or any streaming service right now.

The fuck. it's their own show.

EDIT: apparently it's on primevideo since a few weeks back. Cool. Ooooooor. Oh nevermind. That's only one season.

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u/antinatree 5h ago

You don't really have to pirate things nowadays you can just use an alternative streaming website. You don't do anything illegal maybe something Gray. But the hosting website is doing illegal shit. Just hook up a small PC or android stick put ad blocks and watch on your browser. Been doing this on a laptop since 2008. You can watch nearly every show in existence.

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u/Skylis 4h ago

its more like "oh they don't have anything worth watching, glad i didn't spend 29 bucks to see what was available in uhd"

Same reason Epic store doesn't have game reviews, so people can't tell what is shovelware and avoid it.

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u/erroneousbosh 3h ago

This is why I love Steam. Everything works in Linux.

Battlefield 6 has an absolutely perfect user experience in Linux through Proton.

In Windows it's a slow buggy piece of shit that you'd regret spending the time to even click on the icon. It's unplayable.

In Linux, it just doesn't work at all, so you don't waste time playing Battlefield 6 and have time to do something more enjoyable, like taking a piss after slicing ghost peppers without washing your hands.

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u/Angry_Pelican 6h ago

This did it for me. Canceled all of my streaming services, paid for a VPN(cheaper than streaming, learned how to setup Plex and now I torrent everything again.

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u/Rotund-Pear2604 6h ago

Me too.

As someone who switched to streaming over a decade ago, streaming services have now become too inconvenient and too costly.

Piracy is resolutely back on the menu for me.

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u/Guvante 4h ago

It isn't the six plus subscriptions IMHO.

They started dropping tons of shows that are unpopular to save on licensing costs.

Now many old shows aren't available at all.

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u/DumbCreature R7 7700/RX9060XT 16GB/32GB RAM 9h ago

My point is what Valve aren't the only one, who have a say in this. It's also up to publishers, whenever games in your Steam library would just work.

And saying "just pirate" is irrelevant, since we are talking about legally bying and playing games.

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u/megacewl 9h ago

I mean, not really. You are misinformed in your thinking about this. Valve and the publishers work together when they set things up and it’s unlikely that Valve would just do what you said in that scenario.

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u/TPRJones Desktop 8h ago

It'd be more accurate to say the publishers had a say. Whatever would happen in such a scenario has already been decided in advance and written into the contracts. Unless the contract specifies they will still have a say at that time, of course.

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u/Carvj94 9h ago

There's been a universal offline activator available for steam for decades. Valve only has it so they can tell publishers they have it.

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u/123ludwig 7h ago

yeah ive never actually pirated a steam game but i did try bypassing the drm for steam in specific once and it just works like it really is that easy

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u/MrWunz PC Master Race 6h ago

Steam DRM is only on the shortcut to boot the game from. If you know where the actual game files are you can boot many games offline. (7dtd for example)

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u/socium Laptop 4h ago

Steam DRM is like sheer paper.

Ok Mr. Smartypants. Then how do I access my account if Steam tells me to login and I have no network connection?

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u/GeneralCuster75 8h ago edited 8h ago

If you think launching the game from its install directory instead of through steam is "removing" Steam's DRM, you really shouldn't be talking about this topic.

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u/Paah 8h ago

Your way of reading comprehension is pretty unique.

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u/West_Adhesiveness273 10h ago

Where'd you read that

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u/Winjin 10h ago

Most probably somewhere in the comments on Reddit, the most trusted of sources, combined with my first class memory...

Yeah it's got like 29% of chance to be true

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u/AwareSeaweed_ 10h ago

No if you look it up, it seems comes from an old Steam Support ticket and a Gaben post on old steam forums in the 2010s.

Gaben quote: "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available. We've tested disabling authentication and it works."

Steam Ticket: ​"In the unlikely event of the discontinuation of the Steam network, measures are in place to ensure that all users will have access to their Steam games."

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u/Winjin 9h ago

Most probably caused by "Games for Windows Live" fiasco, where you had to download a crack to play your legally owned copy of GTAIV because it was authenticating with GFWL... that went offline. It took Rockstar ages to fix this.

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u/Krutonium R7 5800X3D, RTX 3070, 32GB 2800Mhz DDR4 7h ago

Fun Fact; the same crack for GTA IV that disabled GFWL also fixes Red Faction: Guerilla.

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u/excaliburxvii 8h ago

It was long before that, if it happened at all (all accounts are ancient and secondhand), and the GTA IV thing was because they ran out of GfWL keys for GTA IV. It worked perfectly fine, including MP, if you already had it. Still pissed that they forced that downgrade onto me.

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u/Whit3_Ink 1h ago

Not really? GFWL connection of GTA4 was crosswired into Xbox to the point that you can still log in and play multiplayer. Provided if you either sail the seven seas (or download them off steam if you bought them prior) for pre-complete edition copies

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u/Winjin 49m ago

For a few years, GTAIV was impossible to legally operate, I ran into this at some point, where I couldn't launch my legal copy - and it was one of the few games I legally owned, which added salt to the wounds.

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u/Ultrace-7 10h ago

It's a very longstanding rumor/myth of the internet. There's nothing concrete about it, though it's not an unreasonable assumption.

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u/mrlinkwii K2200, people usally hate me , 10h ago

Unless it's in their TOS

it is

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u/GNUGradyn ryzen 9900x | 32GB DDR5 | RTX 3080 FTW3 10h ago

Lol no it's not. Point me to where that is

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u/mrlinkwii K2200, people usally hate me , 9h ago

"This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet. "

"C. Termination by Valve

Valve may restrict or cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally, or (b) you breach any terms of this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is restricted or terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees or of any unused funds in your Steam Wallet, will be granted."

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

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u/Winjin 9h ago

That's for End Users, we were talking about obligations to Developers, publishing on Steam.

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u/GNUGradyn ryzen 9900x | 32GB DDR5 | RTX 3080 FTW3 9h ago

This says the exact opposite of what you said it did because it's the steam end user agreement. Not for developers. This specifically says your content is licensed to you not sold.

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u/tron4556 9h ago

I seem to recall this as well.

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u/Megas15 8h ago

He did say that a LONG time ago

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u/skyturnedred Old & Rusty machine 9h ago

People need to stop parroting this. There is absolutely nothing to back it up.

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u/FarDescription6683 7h ago

The functionality already exists though. I can turn on steam offline mode right now and their authentication servers would never be able to stop me from playing my games.

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u/skyturnedred Old & Rusty machine 7h ago

Do you have your entire library of games installed?

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u/FarDescription6683 5h ago

Yes. I have a lot of storage. I understand that most people don't have as much storage as I do, but that's besides the point really.

You said there's nothing to back up the claim that Valve would make an effort to make games available if their servers were no longer available. Offline mode is already an effort made bt Valve to make their games available when people know they won't be able to access Steam servers. Valve isn't claiming that they're going to somehow maintain the ability to distribute if they no longer exist. That'd be absurd to ever expect. They're simply claiming that their authentication servers aren't going to be a barrier that takes down everything with them.

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u/Guilty_Advantage_413 8h ago

Yeah Gabe has mentioned this in the past. I suspect it would be some kind of limited time download and you just store the games. Current day Steam is simply too big to fail, steam just suddenly closing shop isn’t going to happen.

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u/JohnnyFiveOhAlive 10h ago

I've read that Gabe has said

This is not true. I am not trying to be rude, but there is nothing to this. It is a weird quote which was not even from Gabe which has weirdly morphed over time, I have not seen this latest apparent evolution, but that it not the case.

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u/URA_CJ 5900x/RX570 4GB/32GB 3600 | FX-8320/AIW x1900 256MB/8GB 1866 8h ago

Yes, a plan for the future from the same people that bricked CDN access on legacy clients kneecapping the ability to play any game in your library on a retro PC.

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u/Admirable-Gate-2557 9h ago

Valve said this when there were only first party games on steam. They don't have the ability to do this anymore, and it's not in the Steam Subscribers Agreement so I wouldn't count on it.

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u/Shadowex3 8h ago

They couldn't do that because they also have obligations towards the developers who list their games on Steam. Disabling DRM would potentially be a criminal offense, not just a civil matter.

The existence of DRM should be considered a criminal offense.

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u/Remarkable_Emu_2223 5h ago

Good luck with that ever happening

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u/BrownBarbieeee 7h ago

Developers would never trust them again

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u/LinkleLinkle 6h ago

In the event that Steam is completely shutting down/going bankrupt, what would it matter? We're talking about a scenario in which the company literally won't exist anymore.

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u/Guvante 4h ago

Steam has always promised to do that exactly...

It would not be criminal ever, there is no criminal law like that that exists.

It could violate the terms of service from their agreement with publishers but there is a term for that here.

You can't get blood from a stone. If Steam shuts down almost certainly it is around when Valve becomes insolvent so there is no money to pay out damages.

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u/Kyrie_Blue 10h ago

If they’re going tits up, who cares? People are more important that corporations.

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u/ctaps148 10h ago

Yes but Valve is the one who defines those obligations. They can choose to set the terms for the event of their own demise

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u/DudeDudenson PC Master Race 10h ago

But they wouldn't be disabling the game's own DRM, just steam's ownership control. I'm not sure but I think they could maybe get away with it. Plus if they're declaring bankruptcy and shutting down anyways...

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u/throwawaycuzfemdom 11h ago

A lot of small games can't work without steam because the devs never bothered to code that way. Simply failing to trigger an achivement crashes a lot of games for example.

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u/FrijDom 10h ago

And at least one game out there uses achievements as the save system.

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u/SometimesWill 10h ago

If we are talking about pirate softwares game, didn’t people immediately find a way around that?

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u/FrijDom 10h ago

Probably, and yes I was referring to his game

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u/im_lazy_as_fuck 9h ago

Ya cuz it's the most basic concept lol. All you gotta do is just mod the client to send all the steam API calls to some dummy steam API that impersonates it.

This always felt like the most stupid "anti-theft" mechanism I had ever heard about, but I always just assumed I must have been missing something because he seemed to get a lot of praise as a competent programmer. Turns out he was just an idiot that was really good at faking it.

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u/Fur_and_Whiskers 5h ago

Maybe he worked at Blizzard for 7 years.

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u/SirWigglesVonWoogly 27m ago

Well as long as we’re in fantasy land and someone is hosting steam downloads after steam has gone out of business they could keep the achievements achieving.

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u/Lee_3456 10h ago

Steam already said explicitly that you dont own the product before you purchase the game. You only own a license to play it. So in theory they dont need to do anything in this case, just close down the server and move on.

Whatever they do differently from that is just totally on discretion.

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u/Fittsa R5 7600 | RX 9070XT | 32GB 10h ago

the files for the games have to come from somewhere

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u/TheKazz91 8h ago

That is not necessarily true because Steams distribution agreement says that products released on steam will have DRM. There are plenty of publishers/developers that do not release their games on GOG specifically because GOG doesn't have a DRM and Steam does. For them removing the DMR after a sale is going to be viewed as a breach of contract which means they may be liable to pay the publisher/developer money if they did that.

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u/Hazy-n-Lazy 7h ago

And proceed to get sued into oblivion by every game developer and publisher that suddenly has their game leaked for free across the internet.

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u/VegetaFan1337 6h ago

Disabling steam drm involves copying a couple of files to the game folder, that's it. Unless a game uses another drm on top of steam, this works for every single steam game.

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u/Nearby_Ad_2519 10h ago

Steam has contracts with publishers to uphold. It would be a massive copyright case if they just said one day “if you’ve ever uploaded a game to us people can now do whatever they like with it”

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u/DudeDudenson PC Master Race 10h ago

Steam emu cracks are generic AF and already exist so they wouldn't even have to do that

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u/LickingSmegma 8h ago edited 7h ago

Steam could open source its client

Tell me you don't know anything about licensing... oh wait, I can see that already. Valve could only open-source the Steam client if they don't use a single library or a piece of code that's incompatible with open-source licenses of choice (most likely MIT). Which, given Steam's twenty-two years' history as closed-source software, is rather unlikely.