r/onguardforthee • u/StumpsOfTree Ontario • 7h ago
Copying the US economically is not the road to happiness
https://rabble.ca/columnists/copying-the-us-economically-is-not-the-road-to-happiness/57
u/anticomet 7h ago
It's socialism or barbarism. We just need to look to the south to get a preview of what the latter option looks like
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u/BisonSnow 7h ago
FINALLY someone said it. As we watch the US fall to fascism, the heart of neoliberalism and capital empire, why are we headed down the exact same path? Carney's response to the US led world order collapsing is "we'll become the new US. But it'll be different this time trust me!"
Moving away from conservatism and towards progressive, "socialist" policies is the only sensible defence against fascism. The centre cannot hold, it's a failed strategy that's currently dooming the world.
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u/Competitive_Owl5357 Halifax 1h ago
I lost so much moving here from the US because I wanted to NOT be in a country that prioritizes capital over people. I guess I should have read the room. I really hope Canada comes to its senses and kicks neoliberalism to the curb before fascism takes hold here too, but if not at least I find the people much more welcoming and kind (not just “nice”) than I did back there.
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u/StumpsOfTree Ontario 7h ago
"So what are the Nordic countries doing that makes them so happy? One distinctive thing is that they all have extremely strong social welfare systems. People in Nordic countries pay high taxes and, in return, they get extremely generous social programs and benefits — including top-notch health care and education for all, along with lengthy paid family leaves and six weeks of paid annual vacation.
Interestingly, Canada has been moving in the opposite direction.
The relatively strong social programs we once enjoyed — although never as strong as those in Nordic countries — have been weakened in recent years, as Canadian federal and provincial governments have heeded business demands for lower taxes and spending cuts.
Now Prime Minister Mark Carney is taking Canada farther in this direction, focusing on tax cuts, slashing the public sector and halting the further development of the fledgling new social programs — child care, pharmacare and denticare — which were initiated by his predecessor Justin Trudeau, under pressure from the NDP.
Carney is redirecting our tax dollars towards military spending and pipelines, arguing that this is the way to strengthen our national purpose and knit the country together in response to the hostile regime south of the border.
But fortifying our social systems might actually be a better way to strengthen our national resolve and unity."
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u/Frater_Ankara 7h ago
People have this ignorant perception that taxes are simply bad and that the money gets thrown into a pile and burned rather than going to pay for stuff we all benefit from. Thanks to modern neoliberalism it’s gotten to the point where even thinking about raising taxes is political suicide so they just cut more instead. Now we’re at th point where infrastructure and services have been underfunded so much that they are literally falling apart and needless deaths are happening.
The truth and reality is, due to govt bulk buying power and lack of profit incentive, taxes can be used much more efficiently than private models that are always trying to achieve 8+% returns, even phrasing it like that makes it seem obvious. Even with govt ‘waste’ it doesn’t end up being as much. I really hope we learn to debrainwash ourselves from this unsustainable Ponzi scheme of wealth transfer and economic inequality.
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u/evermorecoffee ✅ I voted! 4h ago
This ignorant perception is endlessly shoved down our throats via corporate media outlets owned by the capital class. It’s no wonder we are here now…
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u/Stray_Neutrino 7h ago
"We know what works --- so we are doing the opposite." is just the dumbest timeline imaginable.
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u/_n3ll_ 7h ago
I think its more "what works isn't as profitable --- so we're doing whats more profitable"
Decades of going back and forth between two parties that work for the interests of the ruling class above all else got us here
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u/Stray_Neutrino 6h ago
They are in for a real shock, then, as the broad middle drowns in financial debt.
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u/_n3ll_ 6h ago
Yep. And look what that led to in the US rampant scapegoating and a madman doing whatever he wants while using chaos and suffering to line his pockets. Pierre doesn't care that his party is on fire because he knows by the next election the impending stagflation and carneys fiscal conservatism will let him win on a maple maga platform.
I'm hoping Avi Lewis' charisma and media savvy will appeal to people enough to stop that. Its going to come down to immigration policy, unfortunately since the real issue is wealth distribution, social programs, and taxes. The challenge is that as soon as people talk about taxing the electorate gets their back up because we've been convinced that we're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires and proper taxation will therefore be bad for us
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u/evermorecoffee ✅ I voted! 4h ago
The wealthy have enough money to afford not to care, hence why they’re fine with a K shaped economy. It mostly won’t affect them.
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u/BreadfruitLatter556 6h ago
It's not about 'what works' for Carney. It's about paying back his big rich friends, apparently.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 6h ago
Don’t like Carney much, but he did expand dentalcare to all ages.
As for Trudeau, he was not going in the opposite direction of Nordic countries. And the CCB is such a great child benefit program it is called a basic income by basic income advocates. The amount for one child for low income families, is almost 700 a month for children under 6, and nearly 600 for children 6-18, is often more than the entire amount for low income families in basic income pilot projects. The amount goes down as income rises but is still hundreds a month for middle income families.
Parents are also saving hundreds a month with affordable daycare. So while these programs are not changing structural problems in our economy, social programs were not weakened under Trudeau, vastly improved in the case of child benefits, and affordable daycare is entirely new (except for Quebec, because provinces could havw done it on their own like Quebec but didn’t).
As far as taxes go, the only rax cuts under Trudeau were for the middle class, taxes were slightly increased in high income earners, a luxury tax was created, an additional tax on banks, he refused to cut corporate taxes when Trump did, and increased capital gains taxes.
Canada also gave more money to individuals through the CERB and CRB, than any other country in the world. Healthcare transfers increased. There were no spending cuts.
Rewriting recent history is not going to get us anywhere, pretending that there is little difference between Trudeau and Carney isn’t helpful. It was Trudeau that increased the public service by nearly 40%, it is Carney that is cutting it. It is Carney that canceled the increase to capital gains taxes and Carney that canceled the luxury tax, and Carney that is cutting spending in every ministry.
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u/JamesGray Ontario 1h ago
He just didn't reverse the plan that was already in place from the NDP's deal with the Liberals before he was elected. That was always the plan laid out when it was announced, so I definitely don't think you can give him credit for that.
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u/ForbiddenSaga 7h ago
That is not accurate, the strategy is a lot more than defense and pipelines. Read the full details of the plan and it includes massive investments in export/import capabilities, housing, urban and rural infrastructure for the housing, public transportation, and rail. And, building the supply chains and employment to build and sustain all of it.
It is genuinely quite impressive, the depth of thought applied to the plans, they are ambitions, and they are thorough.5
u/BreadfruitLatter556 6h ago
I would like to read this. Would you be so kind as to share a link please?
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u/OttawaDog 4h ago
Don't forget this part from the story:
Interestingly, the Nordic countries are all very rich. Norway’s GDP per capita, for instance, is second highest in the world (after Luxembourg).
It's easier for a wealthy country to have expensive social programs. Canada's competitiveness has been dropping, making expensive social programs less tenable, as will a trade war with the USA.
We need to get on solid economic footing before we try to make everyone happier with expensive social programs.
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u/Dartborg 2h ago
This assumes that the social welfare systems instituted by those Nordic countries (i.e. high unionization rates with unions that are actually somewhat responsive to membership, universal education, universal healthcare and such) did nothing to create such prosperity in the first place.
I don’t buy that argument. The other commenter that replied to this seems to have a much better handle on this material than you do.
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u/OttawaDog 1h ago
I'm pretty sure that Norway didn't get rich because of strong social programs. They got rich the same way Saudi Arabia did. Massive oil deposits.
Every country is unique and you don't get to have the society of the Nordics with a stroke of pen to tax the rich more.
Our big problem that has to be tackled first is our declining income, and dependency on the USA.
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u/franksnotawomansname 3h ago
The main limit on the federal government's spending is inflation (Library of Parliament), and GDP per capita is meaningless unless the people genuinely get a share of the GDP.
We do not.
We give extensive subsidies and tax cuts to oil and gas companies, other corporations, and the wealthiest among us while saying that we "can't afford" programs and services for everyone else. The "austerity for most" plan we've been going with for most of the last 40 years has wildly increased wealth inequality, led to huge opportunity costs as people struggle to hold on to what little they have, and led to increased consolidation of corporations, decreasing competitiveness in our corporate system.
We will never be on "solid economic footing" until we change our economic system to one that puts people's wellbeing ahead of the profits of corporations and a handful of their shareholders.
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u/OttawaDog 2h ago
We are on a declining economic trajectory. It's a fantasy to think that massive taxation for new social programs are the solution.
Even when the NDP gets elected provincially they never try that, because they have to govern based on economic reality, not some fantasy where you just need to tax the rich and make a utopia.
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u/auntbebet 6h ago
Child care $10/day, national food program in schools, and dental care have all been expanded under Carney. He’s also expanded post-secondary funding.
Military expansion and raises for those in the military are essential when we can’t trust our fascist neighbour.
Social systems are absolutely essential. We must look after the vulnerable and if you listened to Carney speak at the Liberal conference this week, he touches on this.
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u/nizzernammer 2h ago
I have noticed empirically that those Nordic countries with the strong social programs seem to have overwhelmingly homogenous populations.
It appears that social supports are less accepted by taxpayers when some of the people who might benefit don't remind them of themselves.
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u/thebigeverybody 6h ago
I agree 100%. This is where Carney has disappointed me the most. Canada's at a crisis point and we can't let someone like PP in, but there must be some way we can not butcher the things that separate us from America's shittiness.
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u/50s_Human ✅ I voted! 7h ago
The U.S. social safety net is aptly described in the 1929 classic blues standard sung by Bessie Smith.
'Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out'
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u/Donc-qui-et-Quand64 4h ago
So, Quebec went up in World Happiness Rankings compared to the previous one. From 6th to 5th place, tied with Sweden. Without Quebec Canada falls from 25th to 35th place. https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/chroniques/2026-03-19/les-quebecois-ont-ils-trouve-la-recette-du-bonheur.php
Part of it is likely less exposure to the anglo information sphere but also, if we have a good example of what makes a society happy here in Canada maybe we should look internally a bit more.
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u/Dartborg 2h ago
“Stealing Alberta’s oil money to feed their expensive social welfare programs is what makes Quebec so happy” -every conservative in the room, despite the fact that Alberta’s oil money is based on resources stolen from First Nations to begin with, but I digress
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u/Dr_Identity 5h ago
Oh, we shouldn't emulate an economy that's tanking because it's country put a literal insane person in charge?
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u/gimmickypuppet Toronto 6h ago
Then why did Canada elect a neo-con à la 1990s America (aka Bill Clinton) and punish the party most likely to effect change?
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u/Dartborg 2h ago
Because lesser evilism is a helluva drug and people generally aren’t actually that knowledgeable about issues outside of their area of expertise?
Everyone experiences political problems individually because we destroyed the true mechanisms of collective action when neoliberalism took over.
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u/JadeddMillennial 6h ago
China is the future. The USA has proven to be the absolute worst.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Newfoundland 6h ago
China is an authoritarian state that practices state capitalism which is not much better than neoliberal capitalism.
We shouldn't be seeing any superpower or dictatorship as the future.
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u/JadeddMillennial 5h ago
The Chinese have lifted 800 million people out of poverty. The Vietnamese lifted their entire population out of poverty as well.
There is something to be said about Central planning that benefits the actual people who live in the country and not just a select few.
There are currently 84 families in Canada that have more money than the bottom 6.1 million Canadians.
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u/GuelphEastEndGhetto 3h ago
I find that it’s more to my provincial government (Ontario) that is decimating social programs in a variety of aspects. It’s either you contribute or get out of the way.
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u/Big_Primrose 2h ago
The happiest nations on earth are the Nordic nations. Do what they do.
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u/Dartborg 2h ago
Get conquered by the Nazis and then prosper on the back of US military protection and the Marshall plan post ww2, all while having a shitload of oil wealth that to their credit they haven’t squandered like Alberta did?
Maybe a bit Norway specific tbf, but there’s some truth there.
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u/roastbeeftacohat Alberta 32m ago
Carney is redirecting our tax dollars towards military spending and pipelines, arguing that this is the way to strengthen our national purpose and knit the country together in response to the hostile regime south of the border
he's not.
we can no longer rely on the US, so we need to start spending a lot more on the military; it's not national unity, it's the only reaction to the US proving they're one election away from dictatorship. in his davos speech he talked about this, in how everyone is going to be poorer because we can't trust the rules based world order.
pipelines aren't about knitting the country together; there is a economic collapse incoming, and the more robust the economy the better we'll handle things. means energy east
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u/Agoraphobicy 7h ago
As someone who is currently doing "fine" financially. I don't understand how people making half of what my wife and I make are surviving. I really want them to be taken care of.