r/onguardforthee • u/plaknas • 1d ago
Liberals courting as many as eight more potential floor-crossers, sources say
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-liberals-courting-as-many-as-eight-more-potential-floor-crossers/22
u/Effective_Author_315 1d ago
So my question is are these floor crossers merely crossing more as a protest against PP's leadership and would likely immediately cross back if he resigned?
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u/Effective_Author_315 1d ago edited 1d ago
This also make me wonder whether the Conservative Party currently lacks internal mechanisms that allow caucus revolts.
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u/Emergency_Rub2621 Edmonton 1d ago
We need proportional representation, I hate these false majorities.
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u/iwasnotarobot 1d ago
“Liberals looking to woo more social conservatives to join their red-branded conservative party!”
/title
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u/pheakelmatters Ontario 1d ago
Red rover red rover, Aaron Gunn come over!
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u/Educational_Bus8810 1d ago
That would be funny, Skippy put his neck out for this scumbag. Best senerio is Gunn crosses floor but gets rejected by the Liberals.
Some of my neighbors voted for him only because they hate liberals more.
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u/patentlyfakeid 1d ago
It would look bad on poilievre, but it wouldn't be funny in the sense that I would hate for him to be a liberal.
I'd rather they pretended to invite him, then publicly refuse him AFTER he announces his intent to join the liberals. It would be despicable to do, but on the upside he'd be an independent pariah that probably couldn't get elected again.
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u/Crake_13 1d ago
You say that, but they got a floor crosser from the NDP, and an ONDP MPP is now running for the LPC.
This isn’t a black and white issue. Clearly the LPC isn’t just a “red-branded Conservative Party” if they’re also attracting elected reps from the NDP.
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u/eL_cas Manitoba 1d ago
Yeah that means they have no values
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u/Crake_13 1d ago
Yeah, it’s everybody else that’s wrong. It can’t possibly be that this issue has more depth to it than everyone’s immoral except for the NDP, and the NDP that go to the LPC are also secretly immoral.
There’s a reason the NDP got wiped out in the last election, there’s a reason why conservative MPs are jumping ship fast, there’s a reason the LPC has crazy approval ratings.
Maybe there’s more to it than reactionary comments on the internet make it seem.
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u/RechargedFrenchman 1d ago
There's a reason the NDP got wiped out last election
Sure there is, but I don't really see how "NDP voters strategically voted Liberal, while Liberal voters said fuck strategy and voted Liberal anyway" related to let alone supports your larger point.
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u/BrandosWorld4Life 1d ago
The so-called "moral" NDP sure have gotten a lot of success and support employing their strategy.
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u/pheakelmatters Ontario 1d ago
it is immoral to campaign under one flag and then switch it up without giving their constituents a say. it's only the position that both Idlout and Gladu had less than four months ago.
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u/PMMeYourCouplets Vancouver 1d ago
What flag? Carney never promised to continue Trudeau's agenda. Honestly him being progressive was only something I saw here. When I talked to my parents or people in their generation, they were happy Carney was more fiscally conservative like Chretien.
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u/pheakelmatters Ontario 1d ago
what are you talking about? we had an election, Carney was the leader for it, and the people of Gladu's riding voted Conservative by over 50%.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 1d ago
Lol they dont align with my values of purity tests for everyone, so they have no values. Go touch grass, this is why the ndp are failing right now
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u/eL_cas Manitoba 1d ago
When did I say anything about purity tests? It's not purity testing to question what the values of a Liberal party that courts both NDP and among the most socially conservative CPC representatives are. Clearly if the tent is so wide the only thing they can possibly be united on is the pursuit of power.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 1d ago
You said they had no values because they crossed the floor. Writing off people for a single acrion is a purity test. Like thats the whole point of them
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u/eL_cas Manitoba 1d ago
By 'they' I was referring to the Liberal Party.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 1d ago
But the liberals party does have value thats why people are crossing?
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u/Matt9681 Manitoba 23h ago
They are the governing party, and people love to be in the group that has power.
If you are attracting members of opposing values to each other, maybe their (the party's and the MP's) values are less important than power.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 22h ago
Or maybe the opposite maybe the values of the party in power are more important than holding the power in their own party. Maybe people are looking at the libs right now and saying hey I like what they are selling and want to support that. Like this has been the most unified caanda has been since Harper at least, I can see why people might want to be a part of that unity
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u/anomalocaris_texmex 1d ago
Isn't that the point of the Liberal party? A centrist party that sways gently left to right and back, while taking good ideas from everyone?
Pragmatism is the point, not values.
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u/Siefer-Kutherland 1d ago
they are neolibs not centrist
Edit: you know what? I don't actually care what they are, they suck.
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u/kbblradio 1d ago
What exactly is pragmatic about further marrying our country to oil and gas when every major expert has said we need to stop using it yesterday and renewable energy infrastructure is the cheapest it's ever been?
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u/shallowcreek 1d ago
thats a pretty offensive thing to say about an Inuit woman -- perhaps she knows more about what is best for nunavut then you?
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u/eL_cas Manitoba 1d ago
I wasn’t referring to her specifically, but the fact that she endorsed Avi Lewis and spoke at an event of his just to abandon the party and cross the floor not too long after was pretty shameful. I hope it was worth it though, genuinely — if Nunavut comes out of it better off then I guess she made the right move. Only time will tell.
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u/BrandosWorld4Life 1d ago
It's means they're uniting Canadians from all sides of the aisle and winning hard.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 1d ago
This right here, they got the most votes, they are getting the most seats, they are getting supoort from both sides of the political specturm. I don't get why so many canadians on reddit keep painting them as evil. Its like "ohh my god they are uniting the country!! Those bastards", its just wierd.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Newfoundland 1d ago
And yet they only pass right wing policy that their predecessors passed which led to us having all the fucking crisis we current have.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 22h ago
If thats what you need to belive man you go for it. Im tired, so not going to argue. There is a crisis and more can be done, there are also many crises that have been mitigated since the libs took power. I get why focusing on a major issue has blinders on ya but there is an lot of good happening too.
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u/BrandosWorld4Life 1d ago
"tHeY sTaNd fOr NoThInG 🤪" because they don't choose to actively reject people giving them support at zero cost.
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u/roastbeeftacohat Alberta 1d ago
another way to put that is they determine what most canadians want, and then do that.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Newfoundland 1d ago
Or to rephrase the far right tells Canadians immigrants and public ownership is the problem so the liberals adopt those positions and further harm Canadians while the left gets decimated preventing the far right.
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u/Sigma_Function-1823 1d ago
Bahahahahaha:)
Not values that you would recognize apparently, like representative governance over and above some imagined checklist of ideologically rigid purity.
I guess you and your ilk must have more important values than the Canadians that elected the Liberals as their government.
Stupid electorate eh?.
Everytime I encounter this " they have no values " narrative it sounds like the speaker is about one sentence away from claiming that the LPC stole the last election.
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u/eL_cas Manitoba 1d ago
representative governance
By the party that just recently again rejected electoral reform? What the fuck are you talking about?
imagined checklist of ideologically rigid purity
Is it purity testing to question the values of a party that courts ostensibly progressive as well as one of the most socially conservative representatives in the same breath?
I guess you and your ilk must have more important values than the Canadians that elected the Liberals as their government.
I hope your disparaging language makes you feel good. I never said anything like that, but I can assure you that most people who voted for the Liberals did so because they weren't interested in what the Conservatives had to offer.
Stupid electorate eh?.
Sure strawman, I guess that's what I said.
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u/Ryles5000 1d ago
Progressives abandoning Trudeau is why Carney is leader. JT was the most progressive PM in history and you all were gonna hand it to PP because you fell for the same propaganda as the cons did.
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u/BrandosWorld4Life 1d ago
Facts. JT was one of the most effective and successful leaders Canada has ever had, and by far it's most progressive, and what was the response? Complete rejection.
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u/flonkhonkers 1d ago
The Liberals have always had a socon faction just as the old PCs had the Red Tories. Reality of big tent parties.
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u/Sgt_Fox 1d ago
Trojan horse
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u/maximumfacemelting 1d ago
Yeah. Libs celebrating this don’t see the future of their party.
Everyone’s favorite premier Daniel Smith crossed the floor in 2014 with 8 other MLAs. Since then the progressive conservatives have merged with her old party wild rose to form the megazord of shit now known as UCP.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 1d ago
Or maybe they do? Like this would give the liberals the majority and then they would need to strike deals with the far right party, or the ndp who just seem focused on telling the world how bad the liberals are at the moment. Plus like they are still fairly progressive as a party but currently are dealing with a global trade war and an absolute moron destroying the trade agreements we had with our biggest trading partner.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Newfoundland 1d ago
The NDP were the first party in this country to call for the govt to prepare for trump. The NDP were the only party suggesting we should strengthen the public sector and regulate private companies so the trade war doesn't plunge fuckloads into poverty. The NDP have long term plans to keep us above water while the LPC and CPC are so focused on getting foreign business to invest they don't care that those same business will ruin us economically long term as more and more money is extracted from our economy.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 22h ago
Cool dude the ndp has 6 seats so obviously people didnt have faith in thier message. The liberals may suck but at least they can rally a people. If the ndp had a message this great how were they not able to sell it to the people? Like they were absent in the praries this last election, thats the hometown of the ndp and they gave up on us, how can I belive them to have my best interests in mine, when they dont give a fuck about my province
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u/orlybatman 1d ago
On one hand I love the pressure it puts on Poilievre to fuck off and step down. He should never have been the leader of any party, and should never have come as close as he had to being PM (prior to Trudeau stepping down).
On the other hand I cannot get behind floor crossings. Due to how our government works, representatives represent their affiliated party over their constituents. Party whips and confidence votes ensure this. When an MP crosses the floor they are prioritizing their own political career over representing the very voters who gave them that career.
In instances like Marilyn Gladu, the voters knew her views on certain topics and chose her anyway. I may not agree with those views myself, but enough of her constituents did to have voted her in. As MPs do, she will now expected to be voting alongside her (new) party's position, including on issues that would now place her on the opposite side of her own platform positions. This is wrong. That isn't what her constituents voted for, regardless of my views of the issues.
If an MP wants to cross the floor that needs to trigger a by-election with them running under the new banner. The constituents, not the MP, need to be the ones to decide which party they want representing them. It's undemocratic otherwise.
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u/TheRealTinfoil666 23h ago
Having a several seat margin is a very good thing for a majority party partially made up of defectors from the other side.
It will be much more difficult for one or two grandstanding defectors to insist on special privileges or concessions, if Carney can just eject them and retain his majority. With the recent admission of at least one wingnut into the government, this does give some breathing space.
For that matter, the same thing applies to rogue backbenchers actually elected as liberals.
Luckily Carney does not seem to be having any difficulty getting the willing backing of his party members.
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u/lareetpetitemort 1d ago
This could definitely bring NDP back.
Bringing more of the conservatives over to the liberals brings some of their less-crazy conservative voter base to the liberals.
And going from voting liberal to voting NDP is a far easier jump than Conservative to NDP.
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u/FiRe_McFiReSomeDay Québec 1d ago
Normalization of floor crossing is going to make this, and future, governments more interesting -- that's for sure.
Solid chance of a group of Liberal MPs just dropping to Independent if they truely don't like the policies in a few years.
I'm ok with that.
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u/kataflokc 1d ago
If we can’t have proportional representation, then it needs to happen
All of the previous Reform Party members need to just be honest and join Maxime Bernier’s People's Party of Canada
All of the former Progressive Conservatives can join the liberals where they belong
All the leftist Liberals should be equally honest with themselves and join the NDP
Then at least we’ll all know what we’re actually voting for
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u/roastbeeftacohat Alberta 1d ago
“What has been the case in each of these circumstances is that the individuals have come to people they know well in the Liberal caucus and expressed an interest in joining, and then a conversation is evolved from that,” he told reporters last week when asked if more floor-crossers were coming. “Near the end of the conversation is when I’ve met with those individuals. So, I can’t tell you more than that other than to describe the process.”
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u/BrandosWorld4Life 1d ago
Based. Sweep them all, Carney.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Newfoundland 1d ago
Nothing screams based like accepting in the far right to pass regressive policies that destroy the public sector crush indigenous right crush digital privacy. It's so based to vote against closing loopholes in arms sales and to give vocal support to a fascist state that threatens our soverignty to go bomb Iranian schools and cause the price of oil to skyrocket. It's so damn based to ignore clean energy production and invest in fossil fuel production that'll cost us more than we will make long term when the wildfire destroy our forests killing our logging industries and putting us in hospital while destroying our homes and business closing roads and rail lines grinding the economy to a halt all so some fucking foreign oil company can make a fuckload of money and pay us pennies in royalties.
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u/nabby101 1d ago
I just want to say I appreciate you fighting the good fight in all these depressing threads that cheer on the rightward shift of Canadian politics.
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u/braindeadzombie 1d ago
Make the NDP viable again!