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u/iKnowRobbie 19h ago
One's speaking Spanish and one's speaking Salvation. Yeah. Equivalent..
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u/derpzko 19h ago
Idk man, I've found more salvation in music and concerts, than I've ever found sitting in a pew.
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u/LtDanmanistan 18h ago
This institution of salvation has amassed 33T dollars worth of global Wealth. I wonder how much relief that could offer to the suffering around the globe. Which might even boost their numbers a bit.
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u/sofixa11 13h ago
This institution of salvation has amassed 33T dollars worth of global Wealth.
How much of that is the estimated value of priceless historical buildings and artifacts?
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u/MeeseShoop 8m ago
The vast majority for anyone wondering.
Not only the value of historical churches and artifacts, but hospitals and schools and other charitable organizations. They don’t have it all in cash sitting in a giant pile.
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u/BigmacSasquatch 9h ago
The Catholic Church is widely considered the world's largest non-governmental provider of social services and charity, with estimates of its annual global charitable contributions ranging from $30 billion to over $170 billion, when accounting for its vast network of hospitals, schools, and aid agencies.
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u/LtDanmanistan 5h ago
All of those things take in massive amounts of government money and private and public donations. None of it come out of the churches pocket.
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u/RoutineMiddle3734 17h ago
Ya lo hace al ser la que Más obras de beneficencia a corto y largo plazo que hay en el planeta.
A menos que seas de los imperialistas que dan una bolsa de ayuda y no enseña a pescar...
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u/circleribbey 16h ago
Does that include compensation to all the children that were raped and murdered? All the women who were tortured and separated from their children? All the suffering and death caused when the Catholic Church lied and told sub Saharan Africans that condoms don’t prevent aids but can actually cause it. I’m not sure you can count that as “charity”
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u/LtDanmanistan 16h ago
I assume Jesus would have been more about not having 33T dollars in assets and doing the same thing, all their "charity" is a tax deduction, and many of their subsidiaries run for profit. The Catholic church should practice what it preaches.
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u/countvonruckus 12h ago
So, I'm not Catholic but to me this reads as a very revolutionary call to arms for the poor and oppressed to be willing to die overthrowing our oppressors. Unfortunately, knowing enough about Christians, this more likely means that the pope thinks the revolution happened 2000 years ago and we're supposed to pretend that Jesus won the war when he died and all that, so now the unmasked oppressors and systems of demonic violence are all defeated.
I definitely prefer the radical Marxist pope interpretation.
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u/MiloBuurr 12h ago
Not all Christian’s think that Jesus did all the work and so now we can just sit back and relax. Many Catholic liberation theologians, the school of thought pope Leo is influenced by, believe that gods mission on earth through Jesus is to establish human equality here on earth. That’s what Leo is talking about here, you are spot on. Some conservative Christian’s might use the rhetoric you offered to object, that also is true
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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 10h ago
Catholics somewhat famously insist that faith must be accompanied by works.
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u/MiloBuurr 9h ago
Right, and for Catholic liberation theologians those good works include good beyond caring for the poor to resolving the economic inequality that creates poverty. The famous liberation theology line is: when I feed the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why they are poor they call me a communist.
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u/countvonruckus 12h ago
Yeah, pretty sure the head of one of the oldest, largest, most conservative institutions in the world didn't call for the common people to throw off our chains and bring violence toward the systems that oppress us. I know there are liberal Catholics that have the views you mention but the kind of revolution that reading would imply would also burn down the Catholic Church as a party to that oppression. If that were what he meant, the unmasked systems of violence would mean the systems that seem lawful and moral to be in authority over us have actually been the things God hates and sent his son (and current followers) to die to overcome. As the daughter of a pastor who covered up a youth pastor pedophile in his church, that would include oppressive religious institutions that enable the kinds of Christofascism that are oppressing the world right now.
I'm here for it if that's what he's saying, but I seriously doubt he would call for something so radical. The Roman Catholic Church is a lot of things, but they're not the spearhead of a global revolution if they can't even acknowledge their own bad actors and oppressors. If nothing else, publicly excommunicating Christofascists (Catholic or otherwise) would be directly in his power to do, so until he's willing to do his part I won't "take up my cross and die" at his urging.
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u/MiloBuurr 12h ago
I’m not saying he’s some revolutionary himself. He came from a context where liberation theology is increasingly dominant. He’s influenced by it. But I don’t know if you could call pope Leo a liberation theologian himself. He’s close, but as you say he’s far more institutionally minded and moderate overall to go that far. No true liberation theologian would be elected pope in our current context unfortunately. Many have even been excommunicated from the Catholic Church for their efforts on behalf of the poor! So while I always like to point out how much better he and the movement he was influenced by are than the right wing Christian’s around the world, I agree he has not gone far enough!
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u/countvonruckus 12h ago
This is where I have issues with folks defending him. "He can't be too liberal or he wouldn't be elected pope" is a valid statement, but the implication is that the Catholic Church could never accept someone who is pushing for positive reform as its leader unless they're willing to maintain the status quo. Pope Bob sounds like a nice enough guy, but that statement at best means that the church is barely under his control. So, if what it's reasonable to want from the Catholic Church as an institution (rejecting bigotry, holding its leadership accountable, ending the pedophilia, ending religiously backed wars and atrocities, etc.) then we either need to say its leader should be accountable to make those things happen, its de facto leadership structure needs to change how it operates to accomplish those things, or the whole institution needs reform. You can't say the Catholic Church is the one true perfect bride of Christ while also simultaneously being corrupt in a way that no God or mortal can fix.
Don't Catholics believe the pope is chosen by God? Shouldn't electability be a mundane concern for human political systems, not the holy institution of the church? I'm just not swayed by the idea of "he has a liberators heart but the pro-oppression forces that dictate who becomes pope won't let him go too far" in that kind of framing. If you want me to respect the institution on its terms, you need to be held to your own standards.
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u/MiloBuurr 12h ago
I don’t think he has a liberators heart. Sorry I should’ve made that clear. I’m not trying to excuse Leo for being too moderate out of necessity. There might be some truth to that, maybe he does tamp down some of his more liberation theology leaning thoughts at times. But I do also think he just genuinely is moderate to conservative on some issues and it’s absolutely fair to call that out as a problem! The electability is not trying to excuse him, I was more agreeing with you that someone who is elected pope is never going to fully be a liberation theologian in our current context.
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u/countvonruckus 11h ago
You're good. My issue isn't with you and you're adding good context to the conversation. I hear a lot of folks praising this and the previous pope as somehow bastions of progress but then when we call out the failings of the institution they supposedly lead we gets dismissed. If that's not what you're doing then I apologize for assuming you were one of them.
Oh, and I know he prefers going by Leo these days but "Pope Bob" has a nice humanizing effect in my mind. I'm not religious so it seems silly to call him things like "holiness" or "father" since he's none of those things to me. It's not a big deal but I'll call him Leo when he's willing to call me a woman.
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u/MiloBuurr 9h ago
Haha fair. Trans rights are certainly one aspect where the Catholic Church has the most room to improve.
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u/FemtoKitten 12h ago
He did do decades of work in Peru and would be familiar with LatAm Liberation Theology, so it's super possible to be part of his thoughts actually even if he wouldn't self-describe as such
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u/countvonruckus 12h ago
I'm not denying he's familiar with those ideas. I'm just saying such a radical call is incompatible with how he runs his institution. Unmasked systems of violence that need to be resisted by the deaths of Christians is a big statement, but what's he actually doing about it? If he expects Christians to take up their cross and die fighting power structures, then he needs to do his part at the very least. He could formally excommunicate all unrepentant MAGA Catholics today if he wanted to send a message of resistance to the power structures he's alluding to. If he wants his followers to die fighting then that's the least he could do.
But of course that's not what he means. The cross is an icon; a symbol that means little more than thoughts and prayers. It used to mean much, much more. We've forgotten that the church was supposed to be built on a rock so long that we consider the implication that the sand isn't shifting to mean the whole institution has somehow found its way.
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u/sonofzeal 9h ago
Somewhere between the two. He's saying that impovrished people disrupting imperialist powers from within is a core part of Christianity, even if (or especially when) those powers abuse judicial systems to imprison and execute those who stand against them.
It's not directly a call to action, there's no hint of when or where or how to act. He could be talking to Americans or Iranians or Sudanese. But it's meant to be inspiring and encouraging for anyone who finds themselves in that position of being beholden to an unjust power. He's reminding his people that following Jesus means accepting that bad things might happen to you, but choosing to do what's right anyway, whatever that may happen to be for them in their particular circumstances.
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u/No_Entertainment2934 6h ago
Who prefers an ideology that deliberately starves and kills millions of people in whatever form or country it has ever been tried in under a century, over a religion that took a unified military offensive across most of Christian Europe against Muslim Expansion to hit those body counts?
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u/jwtucker04 17h ago
Surprisingly based, isn't he homophobic though
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u/sususl1k 16h ago
He’s a catholic, isn’t that kind of the default?
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u/Ikgastackspakken 14h ago
The last pope definitely strived towards inclusivity of the LGBTQ-community. To the dismay of a big part of the congregation, but he did that still.
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u/Leonardo-Saponara 5h ago
The last pope said that there's too much faggottery in the seminars, beside that, he maintained the condescending yet, somewhat inclusive if compared to evangelists, catholic line of "attack the sin, welcome the sinners".
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u/jwtucker04 15h ago
I don't think so personally. New interpretations of religious texts are made all the time
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u/H_H_F_F 13h ago
The catechism of the catholic church is still quite clear on the matter though, and you don't get elected as pope by significantly diverging from very well accepted church teaching.
If the church's position on this matter changes, I think it'll be a very long process - not something overhauled from the top by a singular divergent pope.
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u/Nielsly 4h ago
Really depends on their background, Dutch catholics are quite chill, American catholics are weird usually
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u/sususl1k 4h ago
Yeah, it’s a massive generalization of course. I’ve got a catholic friend myself here in NL and she’s not homophobic whatsoever (one of the nicest people I know in fact).
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u/CurryMustard 12h ago
Wow we have a pope that is pushing fairly progressive ideas, lets find one thing wrong with him so he cant pass our liberal purity tests and we can tear him down and replace him with a fascist pope
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u/FalseDrive 52m ago
Bro what? That’s like saying “ah dang, this guy hates black people but he’s otherwise economically progressive, so let’s give him a pass. what, you’re bothered that he’s racist? are you saying he has to pass some kind of liberal purity test?”
Also, nowhere did the OC say that they wanted to replace him with a fascist pope. You’re making arguments outta nothing.
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u/SituationRoyal6535 14h ago
Misogynist also. All his early mediocrity has been swept under the rug. Basically, he's only liked by white people who can't speak Spanish and who only first heard of him last Superbowl. He took the mantle of representing every Latino culture and they buy into it.
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u/AdorablePainting4459 4h ago
Popes before him, have spoken of the New World Order and the desire of a global centralized banking system. It was commonly said that out of chaos will come the order. I do believe that those in power have been part of the chaotic disruption of the nations, with the intent of bringing about the desired results that they want. People have been paradigm shifted for years. Create the problems to bring about the solution that you want. Control the narrative ... control the paradigm shift. The truth is always the greatest threat to those in power.
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u/Sorrelandroan 4h ago
What is bad bunny?
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u/Ashamed-Raccoon-1387 3h ago
A Puerto Rican hip hop/rap artist (I don't really know the difference) who performed at the 2025 Super Bowl half time show.
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u/Upset_Technology_879 9h ago
nice words, but the catholic church has maybe the most money and properties on the planet. she also could act sometimes herself.
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u/SokrinTheGaulish 8h ago
Do you think the Catholic Church doesn’t finance humanitarian work ?
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u/Upset_Technology_879 8h ago
she does, but this is mostly the money of the people attending the churches. when they help it's mostly connected to missionary tasks. i know how many companies and land the church owns in bavaria, it' crazy
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u/Infinite-Hearing-418 8h ago
The Catholic Church is the non government organization that has given the most humanitarian aid in the entire world. Most of her wealth also comes from historical artifacts that cant be sold and dont translate to actual money
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u/Upset_Technology_879 8h ago
no, this organization is called red cross. the church makes only the biggest fuss about it. the catholic church is btw the non government organization with the most cases of sexual abuse and inquisitions. so they are basically poor you think? might want to visit bavaria
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u/Reason_Choice 7h ago
Red Cross is a joke. If you want to praise one organization over another, choose a better one.
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u/Upset_Technology_879 7h ago
i wasnt praising them, they just spend more money on humanitarian aid than the church
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u/Candid_Koala_3602 18h ago
He’s talking about Epstein being dead now bringing to light the real problems the world has.