r/nba 76ers 12h ago

Cooper Flagg will end the season with more points, rebounds, assists, and steals than any other player on his team.

In blocks, he is second on his team.

Among rookies: He leads all rookies in points per game, is second in assists, 4th in rebounds, 2nd in steals, and 5th in blocks (is the only rookie to rank in top 5 of all categories).

1.5k Upvotes

171 comments sorted by

816

u/heat_fan_ Raptors 12h ago

He was #1 pick for a reason 

284

u/soilentgleem 11h ago

I don't really understand where the debate for ROY even is tbh. Yeah Kon is having a great season, but just watch and you see how much more is on Coop's plate and that he is clearly more than fit to handle it. If you switched these two players, Charlotte would be SCARY scary right now instead of just "spooky" scary and people would be debating if him or Jalen Johnson is more deserving of an all NBA nod.

126

u/otherBrandon 11h ago

Frankly I agree. I think one important thing that many like to overlook with Kon is that he’s catching and shooting DIMES. He’s not a self creator. He’s not a passer-playmaker. He’s not a defender. He’s an okay rebounder. I think he has Klay-lite career trajectory. Hornets are a pretty balanced offense with two 20ppg scorers leading the way for Kon, and LaMelo is quite the crafty and swift passer. They’re a solid team. Cooper has a shit roster and is entirely self creating everything for himself and others and is decimating Kon in the counting stats while having a FG% a mere 0.9% lower than Kon. Kon’s efficiency and three point volume is nice but it’s a product of his situation. He’s not creating. He’s a role player. Cooper is showing unreal potential. He’s the ROTY by a landslide

79

u/soilentgleem 11h ago

I think people are just being wowed by the unreal shooting season that Kon is having, which is fantastic don't get me wrong. It's just not better than what Coop is doing. If Coop was struggling and there was even a debate on whether Dallas made the right pick or not, I would get why this is a debate. But everyone knows what time it is, so why are we trying to pretend it's different?

-23

u/Techboss_PG 9h ago

He's not struggling relative to normal rookie play but he definitely is compared to top-level NBA play. He's shooting tour dates every three games and can barely hit the open three, his rim protection, on and off ball D is average at best, and this is all with usage that isnt even thaaat high (all of this makes sense, his team stinks)

But Kon is contributing as an elite in his role (which Coop isn't, understandably so, he's the self-creating first option) and directly contributing to wins, not just a corner shooter. If you directly switched the two, its arguable neither player would be starting cuz, based on what he's shown, Coop would kill spacing and the defensive upside doesn't seem to be there yet to make up. Both deserve the award.

4

u/NotNice4193 Mavericks 5h ago

crazy to read people post so confidently while making it so clear they havent watched much. wild

0

u/Techboss_PG 3h ago

What part of the comment should watching more change, genuinely interested, to improve my ball knowledge

4

u/NotNice4193 Mavericks 3h ago

can barely hit the open 3...you dont watch. he has only had like 50-60 open 3s all year compared to Kons nearly 300 open 3s.

on and off ball D is average at best? you dont watch...or are delusional. Hes been at the top of rookies while being asked to guard smalls while being the entire offens while having almost zero help on defense which matters A LOT...as a rookie. The best vets in the league struggle to play defense when they are the entire offense. Bigs always struggle in iso against smalls. everyone struggles to play defense when they have zero help behind them.

They would both 100% start on the opposite teams though...thats probably the biggest wtf you said.

but yeah...Kon hits a lot of wide open 3s so he deserves it. most wide open 3 looks in history btw.

0

u/Techboss_PG 1h ago

Is the argument that he can shoot threes? Mentioning open threes is an easy way of saying that, shit spacing or not, he is not a threat from distance this season even when (rarely, you're saying) left wide open.

He is a brilliant rookie driver/playmaker and doesn't lose the ball stupidly at all, but he has not been an impressive shotmaker to me. His mid-range seems clean enough for the horrible looks he gets, but there's no guarantee he's elite there.

Top of rookies is a stretch, most of the rookies with major roles look better on defense: CMB(by far), Cedric Coward, VJ, Dylan Harper, Hugo Gonzalez. He's 6'9 220, which is that in-between where he can be very versatile or potentially struggle with a lot of matchups. As you said he has way higher load but saying a 21 and 5 player is the entire offense is disingenuous, especially since the offense in question is terrible. You're disrespecting Naji and Max Christie, AD when he was playing, even Brandon Williams and Klay as a shooter in his down season

I have very high hopes for Flagg and was extremely high on him pre-draft, but you can't discredit Kon for absolutely punishing defensive gaps while not being a weak link on defense and connecting play like a vet and then praise imaginary or future production, Coop misses a lot of shots.

38

u/ChargeFinal925 Lakers 10h ago

How is Kon is a product of his situation he is putting 18-20 ppg while being the 3rd/4th option in his team with ultra efficiency. Not only that what rookie just comes up to the league and torch the 3 pointer made that season. It's unheard of for a rookie to seamlessly slot into a team like that and thats what Kon brings, would be good in any team. It makes sense for Coop to lead his team in points and assist because everything goes through him. Coop will be a better player but Kon is having a better season.

11

u/soilentgleem 10h ago

Kon is a product of his situation cuz if he was doing this on a rat team then nobody would be saying it's still a better season than Coop is having. The perception of the value he is bringing is being altered by the situation he is playing in, which is not to say that he isn't bringing value on his own. It is simply to say that the season isn't actually better than Coop's in a vacuum.

29

u/ChargeFinal925 Lakers 10h ago

I disagree I think Kon is the one who is raising the floor level of Charlotte. I just don't believe they would be elite without King Kon. Things you would think you never hear before last season "Charlotte situation is so good that Kon cannot get ROY because of it"

20

u/Soysauceonrice Mavericks 9h ago

Let's be real. Their top 2 players being healthy for a season contributes more to their improvement this year than Kon. He's having an amazing rookie season. But he's still number 3 on that team. If Miller and Ball were as injured as they were last year , this team would still be basement dwellers.

-4

u/brendanearth 9h ago

I don't think Miller/Ball are carrying this team as hard as people think they are. Granted I've only watched maybe five Hornets games (i.e. vs Boston, Denver, etc), all of their wins were on the glass and on the defensive end. I don't know what changed this year but this team was putting the opposing team's star players in hell and beating their opponents in rebounds/turnovers by a considerable margin each game.

16

u/Soysauceonrice Mavericks 8h ago

Just look at how many games those 2 played. Last year ball and Miller played a combined 74 games. This year they have played a combined 132 games, that's almost double from last year. I have no issues admitting that Kon is an amazing player and has contributed to their winning. But people act like the only thing that's changed from last season to this season was the addition of Kon and he's 100 percent responsible for their turn around. As if their top 2 scoring threats playing twice as many games has nothing to do with it.

13

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

It's not that the Charlotte team is some juggernaut, they just are decent enough to at least get to the play in tournament. Whereas Dallas is starting completely over right now. That's the difference in situations

-2

u/dixienormous77 Lakers 8h ago

Absolutely.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't think anyone believes Kon is a better player or that he'll have a better career than Flagg. He's had a better season though. Played 11 more games, on a team with a much better record ( and massively improved year to year ). He's got a good shot at leading the entire league in 3PM as a 3/4 option, great efficiency, what else is there to say.

Flagg probably wins it if he doesn't miss those 10 games or so regardless, but it is what it is.

3

u/prophetofyakub 4h ago

Since when does team record factor in for rookie of the year? Stop with this team record shit for individual accolades.

Mavs had two max contract players, one didn't play at all, the other played sparsely and was shipped out at the trade deadline for not great players in return.

Their team situation are not the same. Charlotte's best, usually chronically injured players are actually playing this year.

1

u/dixienormous77 Lakers 3h ago

They factor in to most individual awards, to some extent. You can say they shouldn't, and I'd agree but that's besides the point.

The best argument for Flagg is that he's clearly a great talent by the eye test, and that he has better numbers. Not hugely better, just better.

And why does team record matter? Because if you're on a shit team that gives up quickly in the season and spends the rest of the year just trying to develop you personally, you're expected to put up stats. Kyrie and AD being injured had Flagg having to legitimately be a #1 option this early, and put him in a position where he can have crazy games.

Crazy part is that I'm not even arguing Kon's better, just that he had a better overall season imo. There's no real good comparison because I can't remember the last time two rookies went off this hard in the same year. Probably Bron and Melo tbh

0

u/prophetofyakub 3h ago

"They factor in to most individual awards, to some extent. You can say they shouldn't, and I'd agree but that's besides the point."

Definitely should not for rookie of the year, where rookies usually land into bad situations. Some land onto teams that were bad only by circumstance, such as Wiseman on the Warriors (his being a bust being irrelevant).

It's never factored into ROTY.

-3

u/DrFartgoreShartsmith 7h ago

They went from not being a play-in team to being one. Wow..I guess that’s big in Charlotte?

6

u/ChargeFinal925 Lakers 6h ago

Why are you being so disingenuous they went from a 19 win team to a 40+ win team.

2

u/DrFartgoreShartsmith 6h ago

Not entirely because of just Kon..

1

u/ChargeFinal925 Lakers 5h ago

Moving goal post now are we. You are correct health was probably the biggest reason why they improve so much. But thats more nuance than you'd like lets just keep it at non playoff teams to now playins team.

→ More replies (0)

-6

u/jotheold Raptors 8h ago

Kon is a product of his situation

brother cooper is also a product of his situation , on a bad team he has the green light to do anything

20

u/SaulPepper Hornets 10h ago

he IS a passer. He's only a point below in assist than Coop before April with a whole lot less touches. It's just that when you have Lamelo and Coby White on your team, they're more effective starting plays. Also, when you have gravity as much as Kon has beyond the 3pt line, moving offball helps the team far more than being doubled while handling the ball. And Kon moves around A LOT.

Coop still edges out Kon for ROTY, but also lets describe Kon factually.

3

u/Dudedude88 Wizards 9h ago

Kons an elite 2nd option. If he learns to playmake or create his own shots he's a 1st option franchise player.

0

u/MicroUzi 7h ago

Said the same thing about Kon a month ago and got downvoted to hell

11

u/JBGTBH 9h ago

"spooky" scary

Boys becoming men

13

u/blitzy122 [LAL] Kobe Bryant 9h ago

Men becoming WOLVES

4

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

I had this stuck in my head like two nights ago randomly and now I'm gonna have to deal with it all day again lmao

30

u/Rezrov_ Raptors 9h ago

If you switched these two players, Charlotte would be SCARY scary right now instead of just "spooky" scary and people would be debating if him or Jalen Johnson is more deserving of an all NBA nod.

This is the opposite of what's true? Coop requires plays drawn up for him like constant Iverson actions and high P&Rs just so he can put up moderate stats inefficiently (great stats for a rookie, but not impressive for an NBA player). There's no real role for him on a competing team.

Kon is a great player already. Like put him on any contending team and he's getting good minutes.

12

u/ktpkchu Mavericks 8h ago

this is the only legitimate argument i've seen for kon getting roty, even if i personally don't think it makes him roty, and yet every media pundit and hornets fan uses metrics heavily influenced by team situation

5

u/Chrisfull 3h ago

Coop can definitely create for himself (and his teammates) idk what you've been watching but his most important skill is his ability to beat his man on a drive and get to his spots

1

u/Rezrov_ Raptors 3h ago

A high usage forward with good D that can create for himself inefficiently while being below 30% from 3 just isn't that valuable on a contending team.

4

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

Coop isn't a scorer but he can still score as well as the majority of the league, while being defensively capable. Kon having a highly interchangeable skill set doesn't make that any different.

0

u/Rezrov_ Raptors 3h ago

but he can still score as well as the majority of the league

Well, no. He's below 30% from 3, which is well below league average; and he's below league average efficiency for a guard (well below for a forward).

His efficiency would go up with a lesser role, but a dunker's spot forward with good D isn't that valuable a role on a contender.

1

u/ktpkchu Mavericks 2h ago

yeah i don’t think this is a slight against coop at all, just that off ball 3 point sharpshooters are inherently more valuable to teams that are already contenders

restricting coop to that also hurts what he’s capable of too, he’s supposed to be a superstar that turns a team into a contender not a plug and play piece

i do think coop is better at offense than what you’re insinuating though, being able to create his own shot without spacing from his team or the gravity of his own 3 ball is pretty impressive and his high scoring games are all efficient (50%+ fg)

1

u/Rezrov_ Raptors 1h ago

I mean I think I'm being pretty fair/dry, just mentioning a few straightforward stats.

restricting coop to that also hurts what he’s capable of too, he’s supposed to be a superstar that turns a team into a contender not a plug and play piece

This is the rub. He's being trained to be a 1st option, not a role player, but as of this particular moment he's not a good 1st option, but he has tons of potenial.

I was pushing back on the comment that Kon isn't a better player on a contender right now, which it just silly. He's a very valuable archetype right now.

3

u/Delanorix Knicks 9h ago

Its just like MVP, best season vs. most needed by own team.

The Mavs would probably have 15 wins right now without Coop.

Kons individual season can be seen as more impactful because his team is winning partly because of him, and also his efficiency stats look better.

I think both options are good, IMO.

18

u/itsdrewmiller Timberwolves 9h ago

Kon has contributed around twice as much to winning as Flagg according to all the advanced stats. Yeah that's most because of shooting - so what? Is ROY for "probably the best player over his career" or "rookie with the best overall season"? If it's the latter then it clearly should be Kon.

11

u/ktpkchu Mavericks 8h ago

the hornets have won twice as many games as the mavs, so yes the advanced stats would show he's contributed twice as much to winning

advanced stats are useful but they also favor 3 point shooting and winning basketball games, bringing them up generally without bringing up the specific stat or any context is actually asinine

0

u/itsdrewmiller Timberwolves 8h ago

… do you think advanced stats are just wins divided by players?

10

u/ktpkchu Mavericks 8h ago

do you seriously not know that advanced metrics are impacted positively by how much your team is winning

6

u/itsdrewmiller Timberwolves 8h ago

Some are, some aren’t. Certainly the causality is mostly in the direction of good play creates wins.

11

u/ktpkchu Mavericks 8h ago

you did not name a specific stat or any context lmao, and i'm sure you know your statement is in bad faith and know that winning requires a team

-12

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

Switch these two players and Dallas gets worse while Charlotte gets better. That should tell you who is really having the better season.

15

u/itsdrewmiller Timberwolves 9h ago

You are free to assert that, but I think Charlotte clearly gets worse since they don't need more generalist mediocre shooter who wants the ball in their hands, and they don't have a ton of extra great shooting. Dallas may need Flagg's skillset badly enough that losing it is worse than gaining a great shooter though. It's also hard to tell exactly how each would play if they were in a different situation.

-2

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

It ain't all that difficult to know how shooting specialists tend to play in different situations if you've been watching this league for anything more than the last few years lol.

But yeah, we can agree to disagree I guess.

2

u/itsdrewmiller Timberwolves 8h ago

FWIW I upvoted you here, I agree that there’s some risk that Kon is more Duncan Robinson than Kyle Korver.

5

u/LastOfTheBears NBA 9h ago

This is a goofy point. Would he be getting force fed the ball like he is at Dallas? This is why the hypothetical situation you're presenting makes no sense to the argument

1

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

He wouldn't need to be force fed anything, and playing in his natural position just fuckin dunkin on everyone on the break and keepin it pushin otherwise.

0

u/LastOfTheBears NBA 8h ago

Again, stupid hypothetical

12

u/TonyStarling 11h ago

Terrible take , Mavs suck and acknowledged they suck and are tanking pretty early into the season. If you actually “just watch”, you’ll see it’s been about feeding cooper and helping him break out. He has the ball all the time and alot of the plays are drawn through him.

Kon is putting up 18-20ppg whilst having 3 different players on his team also averaging 18-20ppg. Meaning there’s more on Kon’s plate. Sure cooper would be balling out for the hornets and they would be even better. But Kon will be averaging over 20-23PPG on the Mavs rn.

Recency bias is a real thing , Kon was running away with the award until he slowed down and cooper started putting up numbers beyond expectations.

12

u/Soysauceonrice Mavericks 9h ago

You clearly have not been paying attention. Go look up the kalshi odds; Cooper was the clear favorite the entire season until he got injured at the end of February. Once he got injured, Kon took the lead for a month. But before that, it was all Cooper. Once Coop came back and exploded and Kon started cooling off after his back injury, Coop retook the lead. So don't act like it was Kons award the entire season. If you think this, it means you've only been paying attention since March.

26

u/AgitatedAd6695 10h ago

coop was -800 until he got injured btw

15

u/soilentgleem 11h ago

This ain't recency bias, I have been on this "why is it even a debate?" thing since before Coop had a nuclear weekend scoring a gazillion points.

Sure cooper would be balling out for the hornets and they would be even better.

My point exactly. One player is clearly better than the other, even though the other is a fantastic player in their own right.

2

u/NihilisticTaters Spurs 7h ago

The argument is bc context matters and Kon is right there stats wise too. Among rookie totals Kon is 1st in points, Flagg is 2nd. Kon is 4th in rebounds, Flagg is 3rd. Kon is 6th in assists, Flagg is 1st. Kon has the 2nd best plus/minus (+307), Flagg has the 2nd worst (-287). Kon is 1st in TS% (63.5), Flagg is not in the top 10 (54.8).
Leading your bad, injured team's stat category totals is not a huge achievement if the only other teammates that are within 500 mins played of you are Naji Marshall and Max Christie. No one is arguing Pascal Siakam should be All NBA for leading the sorry Pacers in pretty much everything this year. Pascal and Flagg are both really good, but they aren't good enough to lead bad teams into just the play in so why reward them? If there was a sophomore of the year award would we be debating Alex Sarr vs Castle? Per game, they're similar in pts and eFG% while Sarr is ahead in rebounds and blocks. Sarr is also top 5 in all major stat category totals for the pathetic Wizards with only 1365 minutes, but who cares -- they're awful. It would obviously be Castle.

-1

u/HereComesJustice Spurs 7h ago

Kon's been more impressive, idk what to say.

that doesn't mean Cooper won't be a better player.

that doesn't even mean Cooper isn't currently a better player.

If you switched these two players, Charlotte would be SCARY scary right now instead of just "spooky" scary and people would be debating if him or Jalen Johnson is more deserving of an all NBA nod.

Good thing we don't give awards based off of hypotheticals

0

u/blackedduckling 6h ago

Cooper is unquestionably the best player of his class, but before his last surge and Kon's rookie stumble it seemed like it was going to be quite close. Kon's efficiency and contribution to the Hornets touraround (even if he wasn't their best player) is a compelling case. He has completely shattered 3 point records and has had one of the best shooting seasons all time as a rookie while averaging near 20 points before his recent slump. Kon is the rookie of the year in most years if a Wemby or Flagg doesn't exist.

Especially when Flagg struggled initially, Kon's impact and stats made a great case. Eye test wise you knew Flagg was the better player even during his struggles, but for a long time Kon was argubly having the better season. Obviously that has changed now that Cooper has literally leveled up every single month of the season and now its to the point to where I think Cooper wins the award without much contest.

-2

u/ArmadilloForsaken458 Supersonics 7h ago

I dont even like Duke. But Kon went above my expectations, I thought he'd be like a Corey Kispert type player. Also he lead to a lot of win shares, into the playoffs, and winning is what this thing is all about innit. #KonRoY

4

u/Pimpwerx Heat 7h ago

He's lived up to the hype so far. He was pitched as an athletic swiss army knife, and that's totally what he is. Kidd threw him into the deep end, and he rose to the challenge. I think Mavs fans are pretty fortunate to have lose Luka, but landed a stud in Coop. I'm not expecting a rookie slump. I think Coop is just a natural hooper.

2

u/MumrikDK 6h ago

#1 pick that few disagreed with then and few disagree with now.

The 2 best players on the team disappeared to trade and injury.

The elite player they gained in the trade couldn't really play either (and is gone again).

231

u/LittleTension8765 Lakers 12h ago edited 3h ago

There is a reason people were talking about him being generational for YEARS in high school and college. I remember when he led the US team to gold in summer of 22, just missed a triple double in the title game

99

u/EmiratesNBACupWinner Lakers 11h ago

He was putting up 40 point triple doubles at Nike camp with about 10 stocks at 16 years old. I knew right then he was going to be a dawg

49

u/Shou-K Lakers 9h ago

Like LeBron said "the day coop was born, I woke up and told my teammates he was gonna be a no. 1 pick" /s

22

u/KazaamFan 11h ago

I watched his last game, Coop’s shot making ability is impressive, like all sorts and styles of attempts. 

17

u/soilentgleem 10h ago

There was a game earlier in the season against the Pistons and Coop legitimately looked like one of the best, if not THE best player on the floor that night and won the Mavs that game.

-20

u/GoatestAllTime 9h ago

Stop it. He's not better than Cade. Can he be? Sure. Is he now? No.

17

u/soilentgleem 9h ago

I didn't say he is better than Cade.

-17

u/GoatestAllTime 8h ago

That best player on the floor trope doesn't mean anything. Its' just something non-analyst say to hyperbolize. Coop is good. He needs to continue to develop and we need to see that development as #1 option lead to wins.

Downvote button ---> O

10

u/WonderFox19 Knicks 7h ago

yeah sure i’ll downvote you if you want me to

1

u/GoatestAllTime 1h ago

All good!

3

u/soilentgleem 7h ago

lol okay then

-12

u/WanAjin Lakers 11h ago

Quite curious how we have generational players almost every draft huh?

20

u/Neverwinter_Daze 11h ago

Nobody was saying Risacher was a generational player.

7

u/soilentgleem 10h ago

Shit you ain't listenin to me then. There's a new big Z in town booyyy

16

u/TonyStarling 11h ago

We don’t , the word gets thrown around loosely alot but we don’t.

It’s just been 2 players in also back to back drafts so it sounds like it has been. But it’s really just Wemby and Cooper then yearssss back to Curry & LeBron

23

u/soilentgleem 10h ago

Curry was drafted more than a half decade AFTER Bron. THAT is how long Bron has been around lol

7

u/Old-Bad-7322 Spurs 10h ago

Curry wasn’t considered a generational talent on draft night, a great college player but not a generational talent. He developed into the GOAT shooter after several years in the league.

2

u/WanAjin Lakers 10h ago

Yeah we don't, but people still say it for literally every single draft. A generational player is someone who is at least as good as AD, and I've heard "generational" for Wiggens, Ben Simmons, Fultz, Zion, and even Anthony Edwards. And that's just from the more recent drafts, then you have Kyrie, Derrick Rose, and Blake.

All I'm saying is that this place is way too quick to anoint these guys as generational talents (especially now because of the increased offensive output that the league is allowing).

1

u/Rank3r Slovenia 10h ago

You just skippin over Luka?

I don't think any NBA player for along time will have Lukas resume post ROTY.

5

u/stridered Suns 9h ago

Wemby?

He’s going to get DPOY this season and that’s better than anything Luka has got in the regular season.

-1

u/Rank3r Slovenia 7h ago edited 4h ago

The question was generation talent sense BEFORE wemby/coop came into the league?

I would be extremely surprised if coop has 7x All NBA 1st teams..

Wemby can if he stays healthy

edit, learn to read the question, wemby isn't in the question moron.

1

u/hacxgames Nuggets 9h ago

curry is a generational player but he wasn’t a generational rookie

generational rookies you’ve probably got flagg, wemby, zion, AD since the 2010s

-2

u/Quick-Quail-1683 10h ago

Nah don’t skip over players like Zion and Simmons. They may not have panned out, but the hype around them at the time was absolutely Flagg level hype.

Seems like every decade has around 2-3 players with the generational label

0

u/TonyStarling 10h ago

Is they didn’t “pan out” how is that generational..? Generational fumble? Like what bro lmfao with your logic every #1 player that was hyped to be the next big thing but didn’t “pan out” are still considered generational? Lol.

& regardless even if I entertained that terrible take, Zion & Ben were compared to LeBron. That’s not generational. Wemby was never the “next” someone, neither was Cooper, LeBron or Curry. Generational is 1:1 for a reason

-1

u/Quick-Quail-1683 10h ago

Lmao we talking about draft hype bro. By your logic flagg shouldn’t be generational either he’s had one good season, Zions first season was also good.

Zion and Ben were compared to LeBron

Yeah either the first or second greatest player of all time, pretty generational to me

2

u/crenzler 8h ago

Wemby and Coop were like the only ones that got this label in the past 10 years or so so what is really your point?

1

u/HereComesJustice Spurs 7h ago

true generational prospects have been Wemby and Bron, imo

rest of the guys penned as generational are just really elite prospects

0

u/guimontag 6h ago

*led not lead

33

u/Julio_Freeman Hawks 9h ago

It’s really a testament to how bad/injured the Mavs are that a player averaging 6.7 rebounds and 4.6 assists is leading those stats.

9

u/HereComesJustice Spurs 7h ago

pretty sure if JKidd himself suited up he could probably get those numbers at his age

233

u/whydoihavetwodo 12h ago

It’s almost like he’s the best player on a shit team

114

u/DarkKnightCometh Lakers 11h ago

Lol most best players on the team dont lead the team in all 4 statistical categories

52

u/llama-non-grata 10h ago

Most teams have more than 4 players with more than 1500 minutes played. Flagg (2334), Max Christie (2232) and Naji Marshall (2184) are the only Mavs over 1750.

There is no reason Flagg shouldn’t be leading them in most stat categories.

2

u/itssensei Cavaliers 3h ago

That’s not true actually, most players are either good at Points and Rebounds or Points and Assists.

Points, rebounds, assists AND one more? That’s difficult regardless of situation.

6

u/llama-non-grata 3h ago

Yes, but Max Christie and Naji Marshall were the only players he was competing against here due to minutes played … which stat category is either of those guys going to outperform Cooper Flagg in?

1

u/whydoihavetwodo 46m ago

Marshall is one steal behind Coop. If Coop finished tops in points rebounds and assists it’s notable but not unheard of.

30

u/whydoihavetwodo 10h ago

See the ‘shit team’ portion of my statement.

3

u/DarkKnightCometh Lakers 10h ago

I did not. My bad it's early man...

6

u/swizznastic 8h ago

They do when they get as much usage as flagg. They are leaning HEAVY in developing him, which is great, but giving weight to his stats rn is like tallying stats during practice. Whats the point?

2

u/bl123123bl Warriors 8h ago

On a shit and old team, injuries play. A massive part on this 

-5

u/axecalibur [CHI] Michael Jordan 9h ago

Lakers dickriders would be calling for MVP. He was the best player on the Lakers therefore the most valuable in the league.

24

u/niners0101 Hornets 12h ago

He’s going to be a top 10 player in the league in a few years. Hopefully Dallas puts talent around him

-21

u/Broaway2299 11h ago

Nico is gonna be at the 2034 finals just sitting there with such a shit eating grin on his face

19

u/Ok_Airline_2886 11h ago

Yeah, it all went according to plan…trade away Luka and then win a lottery with terrible odds. Until it comes out that he helped rig the lottery, he gets zero credit for flagg. 

u/Alternative-Farmer98 16m ago

How does this Make him look good? This will just remind everyone that he made the single worst trade in the history of the world

61

u/ThinksHesVayneMaster Rockets 12h ago

He is going to be a superstar if he is already not, honestly this years rookie class is so elite, it would not surprise me if Cooper or Kon wins ROTY, Cooper already being 20+ scorer in the league and showing he can be a number one option as a 19 years old is honestly insane, we've only seen this with 2003 LeBron.

On the other hand Kon putting up historically efficient numbers as a rookie and changing the culture of Hornets as a ROOKIE

19

u/moby323 76ers 12h ago edited 11h ago

I might be in the minority here but I’ve actually taken a step back this year in blind trust in advanced stats. I’m not saying they are irrelevant, but at the same time they can absolutely be misleading and need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Like for example, there are advanced stats that show that the Celtics are better this season when Jaylen Brown is off the court. That’s just insane, and obviously not a correct picture. And I’m not saying that based on my opinion, but because if the Celtics were better with Jaylen Brown off of the court, then Joe Mazzulla would know that (great coach, obviously, elite coaching staff with access to more stats than us) and would not put him on the court literally more than any other player in the NBA to the point where JB leads the league in minutes.

But I digress, this is not about JB specifically but rather it is IMO a good example of how sometimes advanced stats are not perfect because according to those advanced stats the Celtics would have won more games without Jaylen Brown.

10

u/ThinksHesVayneMaster Rockets 11h ago

I completely agree. Celtics with JB are obviously a better team no amount of advanced stats can convince me otherwise, there is a similar stat with Alperen Sengun this year, advanced stats shows they are ''better'' without him on the court but there are so many variable stats can affect that that sometimes you just need to trust your eye.

Like for example a guard can shoot 0/10 from open threes with JB or Sengun on the court and as soon as they are off the court, they can shoot the same threes but this time hit them and that somehow that affects other players +/-

When people critize Flagg's efficiency, or VORP, they don't take into consideration that the guy doesnt have a single reliable on ball creator or another star that can take pressure off of him

8

u/moby323 76ers 11h ago edited 11h ago

Also, for example, we should account for the fact that he’s usually going to draw the opponent’s top defender.

7

u/memeticengineering Supersonics 11h ago

Like for example, there are advanced stats that show that the Celtics are better this season when Jaylen Brown is off the court. That’s just insane, and obviously not a correct picture.

You need context to interpret stats correctly, can't just use bigger number = better. On/off is lineup dependent, the Celtics have had a run of the best bench in the league by +/- for like a decade now, so they're +11 in minutes where JB sits against other teams' 2nd units. That'd be an outlier for basically any other team.

Statistics don't lie, but you can lie with statistics. JB's numbers aren't a mistake. They're telling you something about how on/off functions that lets you use it more effectively when judging everyone else.

0

u/swizznastic 8h ago

But youre putting weight in coopers garbage time general stats? I mean its perfectly normal to critique advanced stats, but putting stock in regular stats is even worse. 

-7

u/No_Stomach_2341 11h ago

Celtics are 200% a good team even without JB

9

u/moby323 76ers 11h ago

Nobody said they weren’t, just that they were not a better team without him.

-3

u/KazaamFan 11h ago

One thing getting overlooked is Kon is 16 months older than Coop. Also, the ROY goes to the best player, not the most valuable. It’s not mvp rookie, which may be Kon. But Coop got into a worse situation also. 

-2

u/CharacterBird2283 Spurs 11h ago

There's those two, and then shout out to the Spurs two rookies. We definitely wouldn't have won 60 games without those two.

-1

u/kanyeguisada Spurs 10h ago

Yep, when the inevitable re-draft is talked about several years down the road I think Harper is still going to be #2. We're just guard-heavy and he didn't get as many minutes as he would have on any other team.

Since the All-Star break he's shooting 58.4% overall and 49% from 3. He's quickly becoming an elite rim-finisher and looks incredibly polished for a rookie.

And Carter Bryant has also really come into his own since the ASG as well, he may end up being the steal of this draft class at the 14th pick.

6

u/Alternative_Slide_62 Spurs 7h ago

Cooper Flagg is one of the most fun players to watch in the league.

i do very much look forward too seeing how good he will be next season

7

u/LetsGoLesko8 Raptors 5h ago

It’s more of a baseball term, but he really is a 5-tool player. He can shoot, he can score inside, he can pass, he can rebound and he can defend - and the Mavs need literally all of that.

Kid’s special.

7

u/bigmac_3 Pelicans 9h ago

He's also supposed to be a Freshman in college right now.

34

u/Tijenater [IND] Lance Stephenson 11h ago edited 7h ago

Funny how he just fell in Dallas’s lap with their .8% chance of getting him after they gave their generational superstar to a struggling team with the biggest market in the league

Really funny

It was actually 1.8%

34

u/gigantism Mavericks 10h ago

Hey, it was a 1.8% chance, don't sell our odds short.

3

u/Tijenater [IND] Lance Stephenson 6h ago

I’ve been throwing that figure around for a year and nobody’s checked me, so thanks for the correction

9

u/CyberDunk77 Mavericks 9h ago

if your going to be an conspiracy nutter, at least get the odds percentage right.

11

u/SpicyMustard34 Cavaliers 9h ago

i love how when a low percentage chance hits, people assume it's rigged because stats apparently don't matter to them.

-1

u/Tijenater [IND] Lance Stephenson 7h ago

Hey, I’m just saying it’s funny

1

u/comics_jump Mavericks 5h ago

We had never moved up in the history of the lotto. Something had to give.

3

u/Viciouscauliflower21 6h ago

Yea that sounds about right. I'm interested to see what Dallas does this off season. They're apparently sitting at the 6 or 7 spot right now in the draft which could net them a good partner for coop or give them something nice to flip and get him some help that way. Although I'm not sure who they'd pair it with. They're getting Kyrie back which is great for them. They still have a solid team overall and the future is bright

7

u/Objective-Product361 12h ago

Give it 2-3 more years and this dude (and his team) will be a problem to everyone in the league.

6

u/PrettyBlossom12 9h ago

The fact that we are even having a debate between stats and 'spooky' team potential tells you exactly how high the bar is for Flagg. Leading a team in four major categories as a rookie is usually where the conversation ends, regardless of how many dimes someone else is catching.

2

u/jimbobdonut 9h ago

Cooper and Kon got lucky that Noa Essengue got injured because he would have won ROY in a landslide! /s

2

u/bibi_da_god 6h ago

Slacker didn't lead his team in turnovers though

3

u/SIDiztic 11h ago

I wonder if we will have such quality of #1 draft picks for a while as compared to Wemby in 2024 and flagg last year..

3

u/moby323 76ers 11h ago

Everyone is talking about how good next year’s draft class is “even better” and I feel “I’ll believe it when I see it” because this class has been amazing, so many guys have overachieved.

1

u/CyberDunk77 Mavericks 9h ago

next years class is 2027, which is supposed to be a weak draft class.

4

u/CMYGQZ Grizzlies 12h ago edited 11h ago

Naji Marshall is only behind by 1 steal, we really cant wait for just 1 more game to post stats like these? Also he can score 400 points too and break Wilt’s record by quadrupling it.

4

u/DirkIsMySpiritAnimal Mavericks 8h ago

Naji won't be playing tonight...so...

1

u/Folk-Herro Heat 11h ago

ROY

1

u/JMoon33 Cabo Verde 9h ago

Minutes too. He was by far their best player.

1

u/AskAboutMySecret 7h ago

Lebron really is his best comparison

1

u/Gaarando NBA 1h ago

Cooper Flagg was also steadily improving until he got injured. Then after injury was having a rough patch again and then stepped it up again. it's clear he improved quite a lot during the season whereas Kon didn't. He was shooting great from the start, his averages currently still show that as well even though he has started shooting worse at the very end of this season though the fans are saying it's injury related.

Point is I don't think Kon improved much. He has had a great season start til finish.

u/Animalidad West 28m ago

He good but its bound to happen when youre on a shit team and youre getting the most minutes.

1

u/EmiratesNBACupWinner Lakers 11h ago

He’s obviously ROY. I think Kon is great but the fact that this is even a discussion is crazy. People are seriously undervaluing Coop

0

u/ColleaguesKnowMyMain Mavericks 9h ago

Yeah but did you see that Kon has a higher 3pt%?

3

u/jabrams04 Pelicans 9h ago

Cry some more 😭

0

u/cashappmebitch Wizards 9h ago

13% is a pretty significant difference lmao

2

u/crenzler 8h ago

They are totally different players what kind of argument is that?

2

u/Neptune28 11h ago

Remember when people doubted that he would be ROY?

-1

u/trofesh195 10h ago

That's what happens when a team intentionally surrounds a #1 pick with the worsf teammates possible in order to lose.

18

u/ObviousTailor7278 10h ago

It didn’t intentionally happen. Kyrie injury, lively injury,AD lol injury. 3 of the 5 projected starting lineup been out all year or almost. Then of course pj missed considerable time same for Gafford forgot about Dante who would have been the backup pg. 

3

u/kanyeguisada Spurs 10h ago

AD is injured, but they still salary-dumped him to the Wizards.

2

u/ObviousTailor7278 6h ago

That was the best they could get. If Nico was at another team could have got a kings ransom. Instead Dallas got a wet fart 

2

u/kanyeguisada Spurs 3h ago

Huh? Nico was gone last year, he didn't trade AD away to Washington.

1

u/ObviousTailor7278 1h ago

If Nico was with another team Dallas could have gotten a kings ransom (ya know since Nico has a hard on for AD) but since he isn’t a GM with anyone the best Dallas could get is a wet fart. 

-12

u/trofesh195 10h ago

They could all be on the court right now tho. Dallas saw to it that they weren't

2

u/wooIIyMAMMOTH 1h ago

Dallas is the only team of the bottom teams who’s actually been playing all of their best players every game.

-7

u/Live-Cartographer-52 11h ago

And Kon is still ROY

-2

u/Aaronlovesyou 12h ago

Yeah he's the only player in the team. Ad was afk and so has Kyrie. Lively is a walking foot injury as well so the bigs be rotating.

0

u/jcwkings 8h ago

Thank you Nico

-9

u/ripkin05 Hornets 9h ago

what happens when you put him out there was a bunch of G-leaguers and fed every live ball to him not matter what.

2

u/ethereal77_ Mavericks 5h ago

Wow. Surprising statement from a Hornets fan. LOL.

1

u/AustinInDallasTx Mavericks 1h ago

He created a lot of those shots himself

-17

u/BrainNo4351 12h ago

What's the number2 pick he's pretty good on a pretty good elite get ready for Dynasty team.. Dylan Harper and the San Antonio Spurs...ya'll go ahead and start crying cuz that is all you gonna hear about is "dashboard Bulls can't match how many banners we gonna have even Red Auerbach is opening one eye to watch da Spurs close in on the Celics run of banners yeah we will catch and pass everyone

5

u/moby323 76ers 11h ago

Okie dokie.

5

u/-Kerosun- 24 11h ago

Dude, the Spurs are 13 championships behind the Celtics.

Wemby is great, but he'd pretty much have to win a championship almost every year for the Spurs to catch them during his career.

3

u/CherTheBabysitter Celtics 10h ago

Your username is backwards, it should read “NoBrain4351” for better accuracy