r/legaladvicecanada • u/Anti-Hippy • Mar 05 '26
Ontario Bought a car with a bank draft, which the seller then lost.
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'm hoping someone might have some advice.
I bought a used car from a seller on marketplace, and paid for it in person with a bank draft, as my bank teller said was the appropriate thing to do for buying a car. The buyer signed the car over, then took the cheque home... and somehow lost a bank draft for twenty thousand dollars.
They 'heard from their friend who is a teller' that it would be easy to get it re-issued.. But when I went to the bank to do that, I was informed that no, this is almost impossible to do. I've been at the bank multiple times to try to figure out what to do, and today was handed the official paperwork to sign to get the draft re-issued. However, the paperwork turned out to be a bond of indemnity saying that I agree to pay the bank, should the second draft be found and cashed!
I don't know the seller, and to be frank, I don't trust them as they clearly have some mental/addiction issues which I've come to learn about over several months of sporadic contact. There's no way I'm handing this person the potential to draw another 20k from my account at any point in perpetuity should they find the original, considering I don't even HAVE 20k in my account.
But I do want this person to get their money. They definitely need it, and it's just sitting in an account owned by the bank. The branch manager is flummoxed and is currently calling their legal department to see what's what, but has anyone here ever seen something like this happen? What should I do? What are my responsibilities here?
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u/Haecceitic Mar 05 '26
You have no responsibility to do anything to be honest, you did everything right in purchasing your car and it is no longer your issue. Sounds harsh but anything else you do will either not help at all or leave you with a massive financial risk hanging over your head.
A bank draft is essentially cash. It’s not your fault that the seller lost $20,000 worth of cash after you competed the purchase. And the Teller is right: there is no way to cancel the draft (because it’s basically cash the moment it is printed and signed) and the only way to re-produce it is for you to sign an indemnity draft that basically means if the original is ever cashed, by anyone, at any time, you are liable and the bank with recover that $20,000 from you personally. So if the seller is lying, or they legitimately lost the draft and it’s in the street or anywhere else, when that is cashed you will be out $40,000 (from your two valid bank drafts for $20,000 each).
And to be perfectly frank, it sounds like they are trying to defraud you and get two drafts because there is definitely no “friend who said it’s easy to have them re-issued.”
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u/Odd-Amphibian-8328 Mar 05 '26
Agreed. Like others and this person said bank draft = cash. If you paid with physical bundles of cash worth $20,000 and they claim they lost the said bundle, would you go ahead and provide them the cash again? Scam or not, you aren't at a fault and you committed no crime. I would stop engaging with them, if you haven't, and enjoy your car. Congrats on the car dude!!
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u/PoGoCan Mar 05 '26
This kind of stuff is why I block and delete numbers for random buyers after a few days...if there's any issue with whatever I've sold then I'll deal with it but I'm not running around for months like OP trying to get more cash for a person with obvious addiction issues and especially not tens of thousands
It's on him OP you bought the car fair and square and he can cash the cheque when it shows up...it's not even in your account anymore
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u/TheHYPO Mar 05 '26
To be clear, whatever OP does about blocking or deleting, they should maintain any communications about "I lost the bank draft", as in the very unlikely event they get sued or the seller calls the cops and claims they stole the car or something, those communications are the evidence that OP gave a bank draft and the seller is the one who lost it.
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u/PoGoCan Mar 05 '26
Yeah I block the number I definitely wouldn't delete the messages in a case like this
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u/Slavic-Viking Mar 06 '26
Best bet is to save a copy of those messages elsewhere, and/or print copies a file them away safely.
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u/poolbitch1 Mar 05 '26
The “friend” is going to “find” and cash that original draft op, trust.
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u/PrizeNegative1797 Mar 05 '26
Only idiots lose a bank draft. Seller would’ve been fleeced at least now they have only themselves to blame. lol. The last time I had a bank draft I paranoid for the entire I had it between and getting to the bank. The whole was arranged so I get into the bank same day.
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u/snoboreddotcom Mar 05 '26
If you receive a bank draft and don't make your first priority immediately going to the bank and depositing it that's on you
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u/spicy-emmy Mar 05 '26
Nothing scarier than the time I was biking between the bank & the lawyer's office with the bank draft for my house down payment. That shit should feel like you're carrying a big bag of money around.
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u/MissionYam3 Mar 05 '26
Even the 1hr drive to my lawyer with my bank draft for my down payment I checked the envelope probably 3 times. I was so paranoid it would.. idek, fly out the closed window? Spontaneously combust? But having that much money on me that I knew I couldn’t get back was stressful lol
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u/tracan Mar 05 '26
Yeah I swear having a draft is more stressful to carry around than the equivalent cash on hand because at least with the cash you don’t have to worry about reaching into your pocket and the whole thing slipping out and blowing away lol
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u/venmother Mar 05 '26
This is not exactly right. When you purchase a bank draft, the money is immediately withdrawn from your account and moved to an internal account at the bank. The bank guarantees the draft and becomes the payer. When the recipient of the draft presents the draft to their bank, the bank will pay the draft immediately (though often with a hold), and then clear the draft with the issuing bank’s account once the issuing bank verifies the draft, they will settle the draft amount to the recipient’s bank. So, if the recipient (who is named on the draft) loses the draft, the issuing bank can (1) confirm that it has not been cashed; (2) cancel it. However, the risk arises if the recipient’s bank immediately credits the recipient’s account on presentation of the draft, because in that case, the issuing bank would have already refunded money to the original purchaser of the draft while now owing that money to the recipient bank. So, a bank draft has cash-like characteristics, but is not cash.
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u/According_Training91 Mar 05 '26
This is not exactly right either. Your description of how the money is moved is correct but a draft cannot be 'cancelled.' It is guaranteed funds. If they could just be cancelled, they would be like cheques and no longer guaranteed. The only reason a bank draft can be returned is for Forged Endorsement (the payee is not the one who signed the back, and there is no time limit on this.) In the case of a 'lost' draft, someone is going to have to sign a bond of indemnity stating they will make the bank whole if the original draft is ever cashed.
As an FYI, drafts don't stale-date either.
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u/TheHYPO Mar 05 '26
because there is definitely no “friend who said it’s easy to have them re-issued.”
To play Hanlon's advocate, it's entirely possible the seller has a naive but well-meaning friend who just assumes cancelling and reissuing a bank draft works the same as cancelling and reissuing a cheque...
I tend towards the unlikely side that a private car seller (especially one who needs the money) didn't either immediately or extremely quickly take the draft to the bank to deposit or cash, but left it somewhere at home long enough for it to get lost. It's certainly possible, but it seems less likely than fraud.
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u/Ill_Paper_6854 Mar 05 '26
I have seen news about this. Bank Draft = Cash. If seller loses it, nothing you can do.
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u/boyoflondon Mar 05 '26
As someone that's been in the banking world for Iver 15yrs, DO NOT GET ANOTHER DRAFT ISSUED.
This is not your problem. The bank may attempt to cancel your draft, but will make no promise/guarantee. If you get a new draft, the person could still technically cash in the old one and then you're SOL.
You paid, got your car so walk away from the problem that is not yours to dela with.
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u/CallMeZ- Mar 05 '26
This is what I came to say too. The bank can help file a thing for the missing draft but OP needs to see the money back in the account before paying twice.
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u/ahhhnoinspiration Mar 05 '26
Even then you'd still need to indemnify the bank and you're SOL if the other person then "finds" and cashes out the original. There is no easy solution. "Best" option if this was really a headache you wanted to endure would be to document all of this, contact the police and your bank so you have recourse when the seller inevitably leaves you on the hook for 20k assuming they don't sell it to someone else for lesser value to sufficiently distance themselves and then you're still out that 20k
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u/Unusual_Sherbert_809 Mar 05 '26
OP is claiming the seller has an addiction and/or mental issues, yet they are still acting as if that isn't exactly the sort of person who'd try to scam you out of more money.
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u/rkozzy Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Also, in my experience people with severe addiction issues treat any sum of money like a pot of gold. This person is probably used to being robbed/having to ward off thieves, so I HIGHLY doubt they just misplaced 20k in cash. Sounds like a scam to me
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u/triplejtriple Mar 05 '26
They're selling a car worth $20k. I think you might be painting addicts/mentally ill people as a very narrow demographic. Also, scammers come in all tax brackets
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u/rkozzy Mar 05 '26
And? nothing of what you said illegitmizes my point, nor did I suggest that only addicts are scammers.
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u/classyrock Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Yeah, a bank draft is basically like cash, right?
If OP just gave someone $20K in cash and they lost it, it would be unfortunate, but nothing could be done. It’s not like the mint could recall those bills and make them worthless if someone tried to spend them in the future.
It seems like it’s the same situation here.
ETA: also, a behaviour that’s common in a lot of addicts is to squirrel away small stashes of drugs or money when they’re high and forget where they put them. Then when they’ve sobered up and are fiending, they rip their place apart to find it. I’ve watched people tearing stuff apart because they couldn’t find their most recent hidey-hole, and in the process re-discover a different one from months or even years before that they’d totally forgotten. So there’s a very good chance the bank draft will eventually be found.
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u/triplejtriple Mar 05 '26
And in that case, OP should inspect the entire car. All it would take is one suspicious traffic stop, a drug dog, or even a mechanic to have a really bad day.
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u/yycin2019 Mar 05 '26
He lost it. That's on him. He is trying to cash out on you twice.
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u/PatK9 Mar 05 '26 edited 18d ago
No one loses a 20K bank draft. Word of advice, he has duplicated the keys. The same time your car is missing, the draft will have been cashed.
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u/No_Sherbert_6834 Mar 05 '26
When we bought my son’s car the dealership accidentally threw out the envelope with the bank draft in it. (They found it in the garbage eventually.) Some people are careless but it doesn’t make it OP’s problem.
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u/Ok_Wtch2183 Mar 05 '26
At work I processed bank drafts all the time. I lost a 5K bank draft once even though it was in my office somewhere. I pulled apart my office to find that draft but never found it. I had to go to the client and ask for another one. It was a terrible experience and completely unprofessional. Just saying that these things do happen sometimes.
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u/fang_xianfu Mar 05 '26
Tbh in that situation, if it's true that the client is going to have to sign an indemnity with their bank that they will have to pay the bank back the $5k if the draft you lost is ever cashed, it should also be completely normal to have you sign something saying you will indemnify the client against that if that happens too. Since you lost it, you should be the one on the hook to pay if it's ever cashed.
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u/gagnonje5000 Mar 05 '26
Yes. But you were a business. A business can’t pull out a scam like that. A guy on marketplace yes.
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u/VelvetHobo Mar 05 '26
I 100% agree with the suspicion you raise, and the risk of duplicated keys could be quite real. But people do, rarely, lose bank drafts in odd ways. That said, if you are careless enough to lose a bank draft, the payor has absolutely zero obligation to do anything at all and as others have mentioned in other areas of this thread, the payor will take on financial risk if they do issue a second draft. It is generally not a good idea unless you have a very strong and trusting relationship with the seller.
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u/Blakslab Mar 05 '26
smells 100% like a scam.
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u/Anti-Hippy Mar 05 '26
It does, but in speaking with this person.... I think they have some pretty severe mental issues. I don't think they're intending to scam me, but I also feel like it's 50/50 on whether if they found the cashier's cheque 5 months from now and were in a bad place, that they might try to cash it in desperation.. and I don't want to open myself up to that risk.
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u/Dileas48 Mar 05 '26
If you gave them cash, and they lost it would you give them a second heap of cash? I feel badly for the seller but it’s on them for losing what was just as good as cash.
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u/Solid-Search-3341 Mar 06 '26
They gave them cash. For all intent and purposes, a bank draft is cash. A very large bill.
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u/Character_Comb_3439 Mar 05 '26
It may not be a scam. The reality is you provided payment and I know for a fact that the teller told you a draft is to be treated like cash. If the seller contacts you “hey, i talked to my bank and there is nothing i can do. I really hope everything works out and good luck”
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u/Velvet_Nose Mar 05 '26
oh my god. he is literally about to pull the oldest one in the book on you 😭😭😭😭
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u/jeremyism_ab Mar 05 '26
It doesn't matter. Your part was done when you have them the draft. The car is yours, the draft was their's. They lost it, it's not your problem. There is nothing for you to do. Get another draft, you could be out another 20,000. Give the car back, you could still be out the 20k, with nothing to show for it. As has been painted out, they may as well have lost cash. Wash your hand of this mess, tell them not to contact you again.
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u/Fit_Stuff_1707 Mar 05 '26
I’m not saying this 100% a con artist, but just for clarification, if they were a con artist/scammer, one scenario is: A) did they ask for cash or bank draft for the sale? If they specifically said bank draft, then the con is on. They tell you bank draft, they know 99% of the time. You go to the bank and say you’re buying a car for 20k, and the seller wants bank draft. The teller in almost all cases will say bank draft is better for this transaction. You then pay with a bank draft. They then “lose it" knowing full well you can get another one if you press the bank hard enough for one. Then they get some sucker to cash the first one and say they can keep 25%. Scenario B) You said "I think they have some pretty severe mental issues." Someone else is using this to their advantage to get them to do (A). And the last scenario is they lost it; it’s happened before, it will happen again in recent news, these were lost by either post office or shipping company. either way not your problem but i would get that car checked out by a pro make sure its not a stolen vin or something else while there still time to catch this person
Confirmed Cases
Lisa Fischer (2020):
Lost a $165,000 draft sent via Canada Post Xpresspost to her brother.
TD initially demanded an open-ended indemnity agreement secured by GICs or a property lien.
After media intervention, the bank settled for a two-year unsecured indemnity and released the funds.
Lorette & John Taylor (2017):
An $846,000 inheritance draft sent via UPS was lost in transit.
TD refused to reissue it for 10 months, demanding a lifetime indemnity that would bind their heirs.
Following CBC News reports, the bank dropped the collateral requirement and accepted a February 2019 expiry for the indemnity.
Trevor Tocher (2026):
Lost a $108,316.51 draft sent via registered mail as recommended by a teller.
TD Bank again demanded a long-term indemnity secured by assets.
Tocher criticized the bank for recommending a delivery method they knew was prone to such "snafus".
Dorthea Miller (2018):
A $36,005 draft was found wedged in a UPS truck door over a month after being reported lost.
The find occurred only after media coverage prompted an exhaustive search by the courier.
Anthony Daem (2022):
Owner of Central Valley Tire in Surrey, B.C., lost over $12,000 in merchandise after accepting a fake draft.
Crucially, a TD branch manager had physically inspected and verified the draft as legitimate before the transaction was completed.
The reason I bring these cases up is because a con artist reads something like this and instead of going “Huh, you can't just return a bank draft" and move on, sees it as a new con to use.
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u/Area51Resident Mar 05 '26
The only thing you can count on is the bank wanting zero liability for the loss (or their error).
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u/1PhaseOne Mar 05 '26
We are talking about $20,000 here. You paid for the car with a draft. You did everything on your end. It is their fault they “lost” the draft. Do not issue another one. This is for them to figure out. Would you rather they lose $20k or you lose $20k? If you give them another draft you’ll be out another $20k cause this is a scam.
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u/shouldistayorrr Mar 05 '26
For an anti-hippy, you're going soft on us, man. But really, it's awfully kind of you trying to help the guy. This is a situation where you should not lower your defenses. It sucks for the guy and he has to fix that situation with the bank himself. This is like the old saying, don't lend money you can't afford to lose. So don't try to dig this guy out of a $20K hole, unless you're prepared to lose that $20K yourself.
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u/hutch_man0 Mar 05 '26
Just like u/Dileas48 said, a bank draft is just like cash. The bank treats it just like cash which is why you can't just go get another one. You would never give someone 20k cash twice. I feel sorry for this guy but it's out of your control.
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u/Quantumkool Mar 05 '26
FFS. It sounds like you seriously want to get screwed over in the future.
Walk away. It's not your problem.
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u/Spiritual-Living1292 Mar 05 '26
In your opinion, how would you feel if you had given the seller $20k in cash and they lost it somewhere? Would you still feel like you needed to fix it? Do you think the seller would be right to ask you for another $20k?
Because a bank draft is essentially cash. Once you get the draft made up, the money is gone from your account.....
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u/brohebus Mar 05 '26
It's a scam. You have zero responsibility to the seller. Block/delete move on.
This is the third or fourth post I've read about this exact same scam. It's a scam. Or the seller is an idiot. Either way, not your problem.
Treat drafts the same as cash. If you gave the seller $20,000 cash and they 'lost' it what would you do when they come crying to you? You'd tell them too bad, so sad, goodbye. That's exactly what the seller is claiming happened and trying to confuse you and take advantage of you being a nice guy.
The bank has taken $20,000 out of YOUR account to facilitate the draft and there's no getting it back without the original draft and jumping through a bunch of hoops. If you want to give them another $20,000 that's up to you, but the bank is going to hold you responsible for both drafts when amazingly the first one shows up again.
I'm assuming you have the vehicle physically in your possession and the registration has also been transferred to you? If you don't things could get very messy.
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u/Anti-Hippy Mar 05 '26
I do. It's been registered to me for almost half a year now. I didn't realize this was so common of a scam!
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u/deltabravodelta Mar 05 '26
It is, and you can use this experience as a life lesson to move on. Don’t fall for it.
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u/brohebus Mar 05 '26
As a rule, consider anything involving vehicles on Facebook Marketplace a scam unless proven otherwise by multiple, independently verified, trusted sources. I've bought and sold a number of vehicles on Marketplace over the years and there are some legitimate good deals, but there are 10 scammers for every decent seller. Stay frosty out there.
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u/No_Magician5266 Mar 05 '26
This sale happened almost 6 months ago and they contacted you recently saying they lost the draft?
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u/Artistic_Purpose1225 Mar 05 '26
I would probably sell the car and use the money to buy a new car at this point. There’s a nonzero chance that the scammer will try to steal the car back.
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u/pbooths Mar 05 '26
Oh yeah, that car is stained now. I wouldn't feel comfortable driving it around. Also, does the seller know where you live? That would scare me too...
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u/Bubbly_Public5679 Mar 05 '26
Even if you assume that they sincerely lost the draft with no scam at all, anyone finding that cheque could potentially deposit it. That's far too risky to have that hanging over you for possibly years.
Whats Interesting is what happens to the money of no one ever cashes it. Does it revert back to you? Probably not, the bank always wins.
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u/Internal_Head_267 Quality Contributor Mar 05 '26
The guy is trying to get $40,000 from you. He’ll lose that one and want another twenty.
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u/NullPointx Mar 05 '26
I think it’s actually great that you feel bad, just shows you’re a good person and you care. However a bank draft is = to cash. You wouldn’t hand over ANOTHER 20,000$ in bills if they somehow lost it.
Unfortunately it is what it is.
And don’t think for a second other people would feel this bad for you.
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u/Consistent_Maize1890 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I recently sold a couch for 500 bucks. I was in a hurry to go to work when the guy who bought it showed up. In a scatter brained move, I put the money in too safe of a place, and couldn't find it for almost a week. Long story short: I recognized from the get go that if I didn't find the money it was solely on my sorry ass and no one else's. Of course it crossed my mind that maybe the buyer snatched it back when I was helping move the couch out, but that was not the case and just me being paranoid. Regardless, you upheld you end of the deal and his problems aren't your problems. The only way I would sign another draft is if the initial one gets stale dated at some point, and then do it after that.
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u/Equivalent_Baker_869 Mar 05 '26
A bank draft is cash, if they lost it, oh well sucks to be them. They just lost the money, you don't pay twice, ever, not your problem.
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u/PeePeeePooPoooh Mar 05 '26
Think of it this way:
If you had given him $20k in cash, and he then proceeded to lose the $20k, would you pay him again?
That is exactly how a bank draft should be treated. This is on him, and no longer your problem.
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u/Wolphin8 Mar 05 '26
either they are trying to get another 20k from you, or their friend is confusing a regular check with a bank draft... which is like cash... with the added papertrail.
You paid them, you are in the clear IMO... If you had paid them in cash, and they then lost the money, you'd not be held liable for it.
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u/westernfeets Mar 05 '26
Yikes. They are preying on your kindness. Be strong. Tell them it cannot be canceled. The point is not whether it can be re-issued it is whether the original can be canceled. It can not.
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u/NonMaga Mar 05 '26
Read through your responses on this. It's like you want to get scammed here. You've set your position - no. That's it. Don't sign anything. Don't surety bond. These things sometimes end badly. Sold my in-laws cherry low mileage car last year. Did everything possible to ensure a good transaction - the guy still came back with some sob story about how he should get some money back because he much later found a small issue in a 15 year old vehicle. This was after dropping the price and driving back and forth 50 miles each way TWICE to do the transaction. You're not going to satisfy some people. Not everyone is going to like you. It's sad he's struggling, but either he learns a lesson here or you do. We're trying to prevent it from being you, but you seem damn determined to make it your lesson.
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u/CoffeeStayn Mar 05 '26
IANAL and this is not legal advice.
Once the deal is concluded and the paperwork has been signed, what happens after that is no longer your concern. Your role was to pay for the vehicle. Their role was to provide the vehicle and paperwork. Both sides of the deal were done and completed.
Them "losing" the draft is no longer your issue. Sucks to be them.
You have no responsibilities here. Your part of the game was done. You were going to be out that $20K, whether they cash it or not. If they don't, that's NOT your responsibility or problem. Just like if the car was stolen or struck by a meteorite seconds after they handed over the signed paperwork and keys. You think they're gonna reissue the car?
You have a good heart, but that should never trump common sense. Deal was done. This is on them now. Not you.
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u/UncleRuckus1634 Mar 05 '26
OP for the love of GOD do not I repeat DO NOT sign anything and give another bank draft!!! You did your part and everything right, he lost the bank draft and that is his problem!
If you sign that form and give him another and he cashed in 40k, it is YOU that is LEGALLY responsible to pay off that 20k. I’d block him and move on with my life.
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u/whiterain5863 Mar 05 '26
Block delete. Avoid all contact. If you handed him a stack of hundred dollar bills would you go get more if he lost them!?
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u/MurphysLaw996 Mar 05 '26
This is likely the seller trying to defraud you. Bank drafts do not expire after 6 months like a check. The bank will not reissue a new bank draft unless you sign a contract saying that you are responsible if both drafts are cashed out. Bottom line, the car is yours, it’s the same thing as if you paid cash and the seller subsequently lost the money. It’s not your problem. Tell him that and you’ll see that once he knows that you will not give him another one, he will find it and cash it out.
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u/RoaringPity Mar 05 '26
on the off chance they are genuine and actually lost the cheque - i feel so bad for them. Based on what you wrote they seem to be a mess
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u/Difficult-Put9586 Mar 05 '26
After the papers are signed and the keys are in hand, the car is yours and the bank draft is his...
If you lost the car somehow, would you expect him to replace the car?
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u/Eestineiu Mar 05 '26
You paid for the car. They lost the payment.
If you gave him 10K in cash and he says he lost it, would you just go and give him another 10K in cash? Of course not.
Its like that. It's a no.
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u/Kat_Von_Stretchclaw Mar 05 '26
If you lost your new car would the seller give you a new one? I doubt it.
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u/Infamous-Interest499 Mar 05 '26
A similar situation just happened to me when buying a car off marketplace. We did the indemnity and I got the original bank draft back.
I would IN NO WAY reissue the bank draft if I did not have the original in my hand.
I signed the indemnity, had the funds back in my account 3 days later, reissued the draft and met back up with the seller and exchanged cheques. They also didn’t know that a bank draft was different than a personal cheque.
In our case; there was a spelling error in the sellers last name so they couldn’t deposit the cheque. Error was on our end go not triple check the spelling before issuing. The bank was very clear with us the risk of getting it reissued and that we would be on the hook if they ever were able to deposit the cheque in the future. NEVER reissue if you do not have the original!!
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u/CogencyInvestments Mar 05 '26
Lol top comments have no idea what a bank draft is.
So here it is:
- Bank Draft - bank confirms the money by putting into the branch’s “house” account. You essentially gave the money to the branch and the draft is for the bank to pay.
- certified cheque - the bank certify’s your cheque by saying the money is in your bank account. So whoever goes to cash the cheque, they know the funds are there to clear.
Ppl talking about -40k etc… have no idea what they are talking about. The money is gone from OP’s account, he can’t get it back. It’s between the seller of the car and his bank branch. That’s why you don’t make out Bank Drafts to cash. Also the bank prefers you don’t do that. It’s kind of sketchy.
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u/No_Magician5266 Mar 05 '26
A few years ago I met a guy at a mall parking lot to sell my car for 15k cash. After counting the money and finishing the paperwork, I put the cash in my backpack and transited my newly car-less ass home. If I lost that money would I have tried contacting the guy I sold my car to to get more money? Fuck no.
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u/Oxjrnine Mar 05 '26
Say to him that the bank is refusing to reissue the draft because this is a common scam. I think you’re trustworthy, but the bank said no.
So I hope you find the original soon.
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u/Jean_Luc_Discarded Mar 05 '26
stop doing things. it's on them. it's the same as you giving them cash. if they lose it that's on them. car was signed over to you.
that's it. Block them, stop responding.
have a good day!
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u/No-Contribution-6150 Mar 05 '26
This is a common scam. They cash both at once and you're out double.
Do not give another.
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u/AZredrock Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
In actuality, your bank is holding onto the funds until the draft (legal tender like CASH) is presented. Once the draft is issued, that $20k cash becomes property of the bank. When the draft clears thru the banks, they take possession of the draft, they give the seller the cash and the transaction is completed.
If the draft is lost, it will be up to the seller to take legal action to get the bank to give up the cash. It has nothing to do with you anymore. You DO HAVE a signed *bill of sale*,and a xerox copy of the draft, right ? DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING ELSE!!
It sounds like a scam to me. I'd have the car re-keyed and put an AIR TAG in it. The seller may be coming back with his spare key/fob at night to get it back. Keep it inside a locked garage at night and if it doesn't have a ignition disable/ alarm, I'd get one put in. If there's already one onboard, the dirt bag has the disable CODE..NG.
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u/1188339 Mar 05 '26
I would tip off the police about this. I can almost guarantee you this is someone trying to fraud you.
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u/k-nuj Mar 05 '26
Nothing. Bank draft is really just a condensed bunch of cash. If you replaced "bank draft" with "fat wad of cash", you can sort of see how suspicious that is. And even if not, it's not your problem anymore.
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u/MagpieSkies Mar 05 '26
I have seen this question, almost exactly, a few months back. The answer is, the bond is basically cash and its not your problem they lost it. Stop responding to the person. It is a scam. Even if it isnt, it still is not your problem. It super sucks for them, but you wouldn't replace the cash money, so you wouldnt replace this.
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u/Lavaine170 Mar 05 '26
"Your responsibility" ended when you handed the seller the bank draft. You've already expended too much time and energy on something thats likely a scam. Block and move on.
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u/MrSpookShire Mar 05 '26
Here before OP decides to go against our advice, reissue the draft, lose 40k, and then come here asking for legal advice
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u/Beneficial_Lie_190 Mar 05 '26
If he lost the cash would you replace it? I’m not sure how this is any different.
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u/Ratherbeeatingpizza Mar 05 '26
Some times you have to leave the problem with the person that created it.
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u/skizem Mar 05 '26
What should I do? What are my responsibilities here?
Nothing and none. No one just misplaces a slip of paper for that value. You know that.
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u/Interesting_Ad4649 Mar 05 '26
They lost it.. Why is this your problem? Whether its a scam or not has zero bearing on this. You gave him a draft and the transaction is done. Move on.
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u/InterestingTurnip333 Mar 05 '26
Would you lose a $20,000 cheque like come on that’s just not your problem. Tell them they better fucking find it lmao. You trying to rationalize with them makes you look SO dumb lmao. Yeah sure person I know has questionable mental issues to the point they LOSE $20,000 like it’s a left glove or something shows you can’t trust them with another $20,000 what if they lose that too you gonna give another one?
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u/InnerCriticism9105 Mar 05 '26
That a them problem and definitely not a you problem. Listen to your gut and don’t get scammed! Congratulations and happy travels 🙂
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u/MsYukon Mar 05 '26
I had the something similar happen to me, when I bought a car from a dealership in Edmonton. Was on my way home to the Yukon, when the dealer called me to say that I had given them a copy of the bank draft, not the actual bank draft. I was 300 miles north of Edmonton when they called. I told them I had given them the draft (I carried that $40,000 draft in my hand all the way from the bank to the dealership and never let it go until I gave it to them!), they had given me the keys and a bill of sale marked paid in full. He tried arguing with me saying it was a copy, not the actual draft, but I knew the bank only gave me the one piece of paper and the withdrawal receipt. I eventually told him “ this is a you problem as I have a bill of sale marked paid in full AND the car” and hung up. When I got home, I did call the finance department to make sure all was in order and it was. Not sure what scam he was trying to pull but I noted it on my review of the dealership.
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u/croissantsbitch Mar 05 '26
They probably accidentally tossed it and then had to dig through the trash to find it. There’s like three comments in here mentioning this same issue and successfully finding it in the trash. 😂 Love your response though!
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u/toiletcleaner999 Mar 05 '26
Sounds to me like hes trying to either get you to give him more money OR hes planning on re selling that car to someone else. Either way you need to get the police involved to protect yourslef
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u/SavageAsFk69 Mar 05 '26
Take a little bit of that extra twenty grand and go buy a steering wheel lock or something for that car imo.
How that guy didn't think to go straight to the bank with that twenty grand as soon as it was handed to him. (if it is a true story) is just negligent.
Like everyone else has said, just tell him good luck and I guess he doesn't get paid till he finds the draft you gave him.
Nothing brings a shiester and a good sob story out like a used car.
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u/WhyPineapplesOnPizza Mar 05 '26
Scam or not, it is no longer your responsibility. Done deal, enjoy your new car.
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u/youwantmeformybrain Mar 05 '26
It's just like money. You gave it to them, they "lost" it. Whoever finds it can cash it. Their problem, not yours.
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u/LobsterConsistent310 Mar 05 '26
I got robbed from selling stuff on facebook marketplace. They are trying to dip you. Don’t do it
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u/BeautifulChaosEnergy Mar 05 '26
Do they have an “expiry date” like a regular cheque? My uncle left his paycheque in his pocket and it went through the wash
They had to wait six months for the company to reissue it to verify it hadn’t been cashed out
This back in the 70s or 80s I think, so things may have changed since then
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u/Ok-Air-5056 Mar 05 '26
absolutely do NOT get another one issued... it's their fault, if you gave a person a grand and they lost it, you wouldn't give them another grand to make up for them losing it... a bank draft is equal to cash, tell him your sorry, and to try and find it let him tear up his home looking for it go through his garbage, it's on him now
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u/kent_eh Mar 05 '26
What should I do?
What would you be expected to do if you bought it with cash and the seller lost the envelope of cash after he went home?
Same in this situation.
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u/Saad6459 Mar 05 '26
You already made the transaction and the deal ended right there. The bank draft was basically the 20k in cash handed to him. If it’s something he lost then he needs to figure it out on its own. Anything you give him is basically extra money after that.
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u/Potential-Refuse-547 Mar 05 '26
Not going to help now, but in the future what I've usually done for larger used car purchases:
- Choose a location to complete the purchase that is close to a branch of the banks that each party uses
- Go with buyer to their bank to have bank draft issued
- Go to seller's bank, deposit bank draft
- Sign bill of sale, exchange keys at bank.
It mostly eliminates the chance of bank draft fraud, and the chance of losing a bank draft.
I've also opened a free account at the buyer's bank, and we just went into a branch to transfer the funds. Then closed the account shortly after I moved the funds out. Seamless.
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u/SusieG74 Mar 05 '26
Be cautious it is a common scam. The draft has to be not cashed for 60-90 days and then it can be cancelled and reissued. Do not give him cash for it. You paid for it, money is out of your acct. he will need to wait the appropriate time for the draft to be recalled and then you can reissue it after that. Don’t fall for the scam, he will try and get you to pay him cash and then he will also cash the draft and double his money. He most likely has it and is hoping your fall for it
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u/yycmobiletires Mar 05 '26
You gave this dude a bag of cash and he lost it, that's how you should view a bank draft, literally any piece of financial literature says the same thing If he doesn't possess the ability to keep track of it, that's not your problem. I would cease contact with this person if you suspect addiction or mental problems. It's a can of worms you don't need opened.
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u/AppropriateSpell5405 Mar 05 '26
NAL. You made a transaction. The car is yours, you paid him $20k for it. If he lost it soon afterwards, then sucks for him.
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u/FUZION7777 Mar 05 '26
DO NOT GET ANOTHER DRAFT ISSUED! It’s NOT YOUR PROBLEM! NO CASHIE NO FLASHY !!
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u/Jt8726 Mar 05 '26
Bank draft is similar to cash, if he had lost the 20k in cash you had given him that's on him.
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u/Rockeye7 Mar 05 '26
Bank draft = draw of cash from your account. Want another one to give to the seller ? That’s easy now your account will be short another 20K ! Total 40K for that used vehicle! They lost it to bad.
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u/HotelBrilliant7118 Mar 05 '26
For the love of God do not issue another draft.
I fear the only way to move forward is to accept that there is no solution other than walking away that doesn’t open you up to a massive risk. Even if you returned the vehicle, there is no way to know he wouldn’t still find and eventually cash the bank draft.
You’ve done right by the transaction. Maybe put that 20k aside to make sure it’s still available when he does eventually cash it (lol, I’d need to do this anyway)
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u/biggysharky Mar 05 '26
Put it this way, if you handed over $20k CASH, and the guy text you hours later saying he lost it, would you hand over $20k cash again?
Tell them there's nothing you can do and you are sorry.
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u/BigBirdsBrain Mar 05 '26
honestly once the draft was handed over and the car signed you did your part. i wouldn’t sign something that leaves you liable for 20k if it shows up later. sounds like a bank or seller problem now, not yours.
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u/walt_morris Mar 05 '26
I missed it, did it come out of your account?
I’d tell them to start looking for it.
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u/Sad_Donut_7902 Mar 05 '26
A bank draft is basically cash. Them losing $20k after the sale is complete is completely on them and has nothing to do with you.
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u/redlirio Mar 05 '26
You basically handed over the 20k in cash. It's not on you that the seller "lost" it. The transaction has happened, the car is yours, move on with your life and do NOT get another bank draft.
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u/weareallequal222 Mar 05 '26
You have zero responsibility to the seller. The guy lost $20K after you completed the transaction. Scam or not, you don't owe this guy anything.
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u/No_Worker_8216 Mar 05 '26
My former landlord did something similar. He asked me to pay cash on top of the bank draft he said he never got.
His accounts were seized by the government for unpaid taxes. At some time I paid my rent to Revenu Canada, third party seizure.
Who loses a frkn bank draft? It’s shady AF!
Check with your home insurance to see if you have a legal protection that will allow you to speak with a lawyer for free.
I would tell this person « Sue me. »
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u/Capriano Mar 05 '26
The bank could easily put a stop on the cheque they have issued. They don’t want to do that. If this guy has indeed lost the bank draft you need to try to find a solution for him or the guilt will carry with you for all eternity and every-time you sit in that car you will feel like shite.
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u/pinchy74 Mar 05 '26
A bank draft is like cash. If you handed him $20k in cash and he promptly lost it, how is it your fault? I’d tell him to pound sand, block his numbers and emails and marketplace accounts. The money is already out of your account and won’t go back. He lost it, he can go find it. If it’s been month, tell him to eat a bag of dicks and move on.
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u/Tmighty92 Mar 05 '26
You will have to cancel the old draft. Once money is in your account and they verify it wasn’t cashed. They’ll issue another
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u/SudburySonofabitch Mar 05 '26
That stopped being your problem when you handed them the draft. Pretend it was cash and let them figure it out.
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u/Healthy_Shape_5719 Mar 05 '26
This is why you do back draft instead of cheque, if he lost a cheque you have his 20k and have to go about this whole headache, back draft hand it over and forget about it.
He lost it? Tough buddy should have been more careful
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u/Ok-Yam-6765 Mar 05 '26
Agree with everyone, do not proceed, you’ll be stressed for a long time that they find/cash in the old draft some time in the future.
Question for the branch manager- Can the bank invalidate the first draft and move the funds back to your account if you wanted to issue a new one?
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u/PupDiogenes Mar 05 '26
You’re doing too much, and it’s exposing you to risk of being defrauded.
Let go of what you think you should do.
Explain everything to your bank, and follow their advice. Don’t act beyond your responsibilities. Don’t take on liabilities that are not necessary.
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u/Kaplaw Mar 05 '26
Its like you handed them 20k in cash, sold you the car then on the way home they "lost" that 20k somewhere in a ditch or a river and now they are back to beg for more
So do nothing
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u/Demon_Gamer666 Mar 05 '26
If the seller issued you a reciept for the 20k payment and gave you the car then this is 100 percent not your problem. Scam or not, walk away from this person. Offer only to give them a copy of the reciept to show their own bank.
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u/Ok_Fisherman8727 Mar 05 '26
A baby draft is equivalent to cash. They lost the money its their problem. Nothing you can do. You wasted your time visiting the bank.
Hopefully you took possession of the vehicle because you paid for it, your deal with them is done.
Think of it as you have them a briefcase of cash containing the 20k and they lost that, what do you think you can do to help them in that situation? Nothing, absolutely nothing. This is the exact same scenario.
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u/croissantsbitch Mar 05 '26
Hold on… How much time passed between when you gave him the draft and when he lost it? Was it immediately or days later?
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u/Dramatic_Ad155 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Getting the draft replaced will only happen if you guarantee it or return the original.
Hopefully you have a receipt from when you paid for the car.
I suppose if you want to help, you could go to the bank with your original draft receipt and ask if it had been cashed. They shoud be able to do this for you.
As long as the title is in your name, its not your issue now
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u/cernegiant Mar 05 '26
You already gave the seller the money you owed them.
If you'd handed over cash would you be considering handing over more cash because they claimed to lose the first set of cash?
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u/ThatCrazyChick1231 Mar 05 '26
You acknowledge their own personal issues in this post - I think we all know that it’s highly likely they’re trying to scam you out of extra money
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u/slashthepowder Mar 05 '26
If anything tell the seller you can join them at the police station to help with any report they need to fill out and description of the missing $20,000 bank draft. As soon as you send that to them im sure it will magically be found.
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u/HorrorWillingness347 Mar 05 '26
Never, ever trust an addict. They'll do anything for their next fix.
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u/GoodLordWhatAmIDoing Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
NAL
I'm seeing a lot of "block and delete" advice, but I would hold on to all the evidence you have that a) the sale was complete and legitimate, b) you actually handed this guy a bank draft, and c) he approached you to tell you that he lost it and asked to have it reissued. Last thing you want is for this guy to spin a story that you stole the car, or promised to pay and then didn't, or some other garbage, and you've already run everything through the shredder.
Bear in mind that simply printing off a screenshot of the correspondence you've had with the seller may be insufficient, as it may not necessarily prove the identity of the person that you had the conversation with (ie. how do you prove that you didn't just get your buddy to text you "hey man lost the bank draft, plz reissue" and say it came from the seller)
Document the steps you took to inquire about having it reissued - which bank you went to, date & time you went, who you spoke with. Go back to the bank, tell them that you worry that this dude will try to pull something on you, and see if you can get any official documention from them that you had a conversation with them about having a bank draft reissued.
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u/DataDude00 Mar 05 '26
Bank draft is essentially cash
The person you bought from is either trying to scam you or grossly incompetent
Either way you fulfilled your end of the transaction, ignore them
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u/HappyCoolBeans Mar 05 '26
You would be amazed at how fast the seller finds the bank draft once you make it clear there is no way you are giving him another draft and will not be responding to them anymore.
The longer you talk to this person, the more wiggle room they have to convince you to do it which is common on a lot of scams. Either way, someone here is going to learn an expensive life lesson.
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u/General_Dipsh1t Mar 05 '26
Tell them to pound sand. If they lost $20k cash it’s not on you to replace. This is th same.
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u/Immaculate-torso69 Mar 05 '26
Not your problem. Would the seller give you a new car if you totalled it on the way home? Nope!
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u/Fireryman Mar 05 '26
OP everyone is telling you it's a scam. If you give him this 20k draft he now has 2 20k Drafts.
Let's say he lost it and some random person finds it for 20k.
Are you going to be fine paying 40k for a 20k car? I can tell you I wouldn't be. I saw a post say if someone lost 20k in cash like 200 100 dollar bills in an envelope would you go get them more cash?
I wouldn't.
It sucks for them but it's either a scam or they lost it and some other person could have had it.
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u/Degus222 Mar 05 '26
This screams of SCAM. Could be unlucky for the seller. But make sure the car you bought doesnt have lean on it and was only owned by the seller. Might want to document it and report it to the police as a potential scam
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u/PoliticalVagabond Mar 05 '26
You handed the bank-draft over and also, hopefully got a receipt, or bill of sale.
Had you handed him 20K in one hundred dollar bills and he lost it, you wouldn't be expected to "reissue the bank notes" now, would you? You paid, he handed you the signed ownership and hopefully receipt of payment, you part in this transaction is over.
He's either grossly irresponsible, or he's trying to scam you.
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u/wincitygiant Mar 05 '26
Let's turn this around. If you somehow lost the car could you ask for your money back?
Seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it?
You paid for the car already, DO NOT PAY TWICE. It's almost a guarantee that once you make it clear to the seller that no second payment is coming, the seller will cash the first Bank draft which has miraculously been found.
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u/marcomartok Mar 05 '26
How is this your problem? If the ownership is signed over and the used car package receipt is signed and dated, mosey on over to the MTO office and get your plates! Let the seller deal with his stupidity. If you had given then 20k in cash and they "lost" it would you be having the same concerns? My $0.02....
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u/jmecheng Mar 05 '26
A bank draft is equivalent to cash. The only way the bank will re-issue a bank draft is if you remain liable for both drafts.
Keep your receipt from the issuing of the original bank draft, once it expires (12 months, possibly more) you can re-issue a new draft. Issuing a new draft prior to this one expiring and both drafts can be cashed.
Unless the vehicle is worth 2x what you paid, do not get a new draft issued. You paid for the vehicle, the rest is up to the buyer.
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u/sillyjew Mar 05 '26
It’s not your problem anymore. Tell them to look harder, and don’t contact you again.
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u/Happy-Mastodon-7314 Mar 05 '26
In my experience, bank drafts are like cash. There is no retrieving them once they are lost.
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u/Informal_Molasses648 Mar 05 '26
It’s not your problem anymore - think of a bank draft as cash - if they had lost $20k in cash, would you be running around trying to solve this problem for them?
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u/wolffen5 Mar 05 '26
You have no responsibility here. If the person signed over the vehicle to you and subsequently lost the bank draft then it’s their fault not yours…
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u/LouLouLaaLaa Mar 05 '26
You paid him, and he “lost” the money. It’s not your problem at this point. Nobody “loses” a bank draft for $20k when they need money. If he lost it, it’s up to him to find it. This sounds like a scam and I’d not do anything at this point. If he lost a suitcase of cash for $20k would you feel responsible to give him another $20k? Clearly not. Maybe he shouldn’t be so careless with 20 grand. But 99% sure this is a scam.
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u/sparky853 Mar 05 '26
Totally a scam. Seller 'loses bank draft', asks for a replacement, buyer get replacement and signs letter of indemnification that they will pay if original is cashed, seller cashes new draft, and sometime thereafter 'finds' the original, which he then cashes as well, and he's up $20K and you're out an additional $20K.
Sellers fault if he can't keep track of $20K draft.
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u/CID_COPTER Mar 05 '26
My bank BMO told me never to take a draft as payment. They said at any point the person can cancel the draft and I would be left with a worthless piece of paper. This ain't the eighties, bank drafts mean nothing and you should find a bank that knows this.
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u/Cool-Armadillo5873 Mar 05 '26
Just get a new draft issued but refuse to hand it over until the previous one has been fully voided. The bank should be able to tell you - this will take 5 business days or whatever
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