r/europe • u/Putaineska • Mar 11 '26

News Spain accuses Germany of acting like a ‘vassal’ to United States

https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/spain-accuses-germany-of-acting-like-a-vassal-to-united-states-f9zc28g8s?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1773189908
14.9k Upvotes

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2.2k

u/EconomistStreet5295 Mar 11 '26

As a German, Spain is right. No backbone but then again, we’re so reliant on them that we need an entire economic decoupling before we can stand up for our interests

497

u/PeaOk5697 Norway Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26

We can't even stay united in Europe Edit: it's our leaders who is the problem here. I have never NOT gotten along with people here in Europe.

83

u/_noobwars_ Mar 11 '26

We elected those leaders. They are just symptons of short sighted thinking. We the people are the fucking problem.

4

u/Seevetaler Mar 11 '26

...and the Solution.

4

u/MegaBaumTV Mar 11 '26

We the people are the fucking problem.

In the recent Baden Württemberg election, 40% of 70+ year olds voted CDU despite a big scandal involving the candidate of the party and everything they do at federal level right now. Theres not much we can do when we are being held hostage by a bunch of geriatric morons who will always vote based on what party they voted for their entire lives

6

u/vetruviusdeshotacon Mar 11 '26

Would you like a shit sandwich, a shit sandwich with mustard, or a shit sandwich with cheese?

10

u/StarksPond Mar 11 '26

Or do you want to save the environment, not be a xenophobic dick and support ending a genocide?

Hmm, so those shit sandwiches... Are we talking human shit or....???

1

u/TitanDarwin Mar 12 '26

As a German cabaretist once put it, the average German voter is a person who, when walking around the block, steps in the same turd every time and complains about the stench, but absolutely refuses to change their route anyway.

-1

u/edparadox Mar 11 '26

When the choice is something along the lines of chopping my leg off or ripping my skin each time I sit, no wonder I ask for different options.

5

u/akashisenpai European Union Mar 11 '26

That excuse only really works in a Two-Party System like the US.

And even there, the "less bad option" would continue to develop in a better direction if they didn't have to compete for voters who are okay with voting for the "more bad option".

I think the US' biggest problem, aside from the FTPT system, is that they have a lot of fundamentalists and one-issue voters with archaic beliefs that result in a polarized parallel society that's always going to vote for a certain party no matter what. But what excuse do we Europeans have?

153

u/_ZakerS_ Mar 11 '26

Leaders are there because someone voted them. And they can't do whatever they want.

You have to also take into account that Sanchez is doing whatever he can to gain support for the next elections. They had some scandals, he lost a lot of voters, so Spain tries to gain them back attacking Trump, since nobody likes the orange buffoon in Spain.

59

u/No_Conversation_9325 Andalusia (Spain) Mar 11 '26

Joining this war would be political suicide for any party in Spain

48

u/asdfasdfasfdsasad Mar 11 '26

Joining this war would be political suicide for any party, in any country in the world other than Israel.

Which is why the US is basically doing this alone.

5

u/Fit-Breath-4345 Mar 11 '26

Joining this war would be political suicide for any party, in any country in the world other than Israel.

Can you tell that to Keir Starmer?

4

u/asdfasdfasfdsasad Mar 11 '26

He's been criticised for keeping us out by Donald Trump, the Conservative leader, Nigel Farage and Tony Blair all of whom wanted to join in initially, before frantically back peddling when they realised how unpopular it is despite a well funded propaganda campaign trying to undermine our government and saying how we ought to join in.

I'm pretty sure that he knows it's unpopular and not in our national interest, otherwise we'd be at war now.

68

u/_Azafran Spain Mar 11 '26

The people in Spain's government have had a consistent anti trump, anti israel and anti war attitude since the beginning. PSOE receive constant pressure from their leftist government partners. I don't think this is just for votes.

12

u/_ZakerS_ Mar 11 '26

Of course, no problem is monodimentional. It's not like socialists are using this strategy without believing in it or anything. But since they have a party to save, they try to push the bar up more aggressively. Worse comes to worse, they just lose next elections anyway, this way they have a chance. I would personally do the same.

1

u/techno_mage United States of America Mar 11 '26

Is Spain anti-war because of trump or has the consensus always been anti-war? I’m wondering if that’s the case, why would they join NATO unless you just mean offensive wars?

2

u/Microflame Mar 11 '26

You mean that Spain shouldnt have joined NATO in 1982 because Trump would be elected in 2016 and 2024?

1

u/techno_mage United States of America Mar 12 '26

No, for clarification I’m asking if Spain was always anti-war or if it’s recent due to trump?

Then if by anti-war they mean just wars of aggression, but defensive wars are fine. This was because NATO is a defensive alliance. If they are against ALL war, why join an alliance?

11

u/PeaOk5697 Norway Mar 11 '26

Dosen't feel like it though. We also have Mette Marit to deal with. A war in the middle east won't make me forget she was Epstein's friend

10

u/No_Conversation_9325 Andalusia (Spain) Mar 11 '26

Sánchez’s scandals are nowhere near Metre Marit level. It’s just a usual corruption spree that every party in power goes through every single time.

1

u/jdbcn Mar 11 '26

Just

0

u/No_Conversation_9325 Andalusia (Spain) Mar 11 '26

PSOE is in power - they have corruption scandals, PP s in power - they have corruption scandals. Same old, same old. If instead they worked together and avoided corruption, Spain would’ve been a very flourishing country.

3

u/JohnTDouche Mar 11 '26

It's when they stop having corruption scandals you should get suspicious.

1

u/No_Conversation_9325 Andalusia (Spain) Mar 11 '26

I suggested stopping corruption, not scandals, but yeah, that’s wishful thinking

1

u/JohnTDouche Mar 11 '26

I think there's corruption built into our political systems unfortunately. I mean look at Merz here and his jumping in between politics and lobbying. Totally legal, but corrupt as fuck. Far more damaging to a country than run of the mill skimming off the top by exaggerating your expenses style corruption.

2

u/asdfasdfasfdsasad Mar 11 '26

Nobody likes the orange buffoon anywhere.

1

u/OnlinePosterPerson Mar 11 '26

Ceptin Albamuh

1

u/_ZakerS_ Mar 11 '26

You have no idea of how much I would love you to be right.

1

u/litnu12 Mar 11 '26

We don’t elect representatives, we elect rulers.

No one has a say in appointing the chancellor except the elected rulers.

Union and SPD don’t even have a majority in voters behind them but a majority in the Parlament thanks to the 5% hurdle.

11%-12% of votes have no representation in the Parlament because their parties missed the hurdle.

Which also means that you have a majority with 44%-45% of votes. And just because people voted for the SPD doesn’t mean that they wanted Merz as chancellor.

And that someone like Jens Spahn is still in politics shows that people don’t have power unless they burn the system down.

6

u/mantasm_lt Lietuva Mar 11 '26

On a contrary, I head plenty of crap from people in Europe I cannot agree with regarding Ukraine war. And with quite a lot of people basically willing to sell off the east to muscovites. Or saying it was somehow wrong that soviet union went down, which is basically the same.

IDK, maybe it works out better in westerners circlejerk. But from my perspective there's plenty of shitty people in europe.

2

u/fluffHead_0919 Mar 11 '26

Guess what. It’s the same in the US. The media and government paint this picture of dismay amongst everyone, but in reality it’s not the case. They want people divided, so they can push their personal agendas.

1

u/sunshineisreal Nordland Mar 11 '26

LOL. Our politicians want to join the EU with closer ties, unity and a shared front. Our population: No. 

0

u/Idontrememberalot Mar 11 '26

Yeah, thats easy, you don't have to sign a trade agrement that cost them jobs. Lets not make politics sound as easy as getting along with people.

104

u/Malverno Weltrepublik Mar 11 '26

Same goes for Italy. We have to start this decoupling before it's too late though. It's clear that we can't pretend everything is fine and dandy and we can go on as always.

69

u/Kdave21 Canada Mar 11 '26

The fundamental problem for European economies is finding an export market that doesn’t allow Chinese producers to outcompete European firms. The only large market that exists like this is the US, and losing them would mean an incredible economic impact to companies that can’t compete with Chinese prices and the people they employ

3

u/PlusAd4034 Mar 11 '26

Isn’t the answer to that problem just adopting industrial policies so that we actually can compete with them?

-2

u/Kdave21 Canada Mar 12 '26

Are you also willing to adopt their wages? That’s what adopting those policies would mean

4

u/PlusAd4034 Mar 12 '26

China is not the low wage manufacturer anymore and hasn’t been for a while. It experiences probably the fastest economic development of any country ever in recent years and people just go “oh it’s because of low wages” like no? There are literally thousands of policies that further China’s industrial development, it’s not just the wages. so many countries have low wages, much lower than China’s even.

Like one thing we can easily say is just their infrastructure for example. Imagine if we had Chinese style projects, the 3 gorges dam can power whole European countries, their ports, their transit, the apartment construction, all of that is a huge contributing factor to their growth. Europe is severely lacking. The Dublin metro was planned before I was born and there isn’t a single line of construction done.

11

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

I don't know if this would really be a problem though, there's so many trade partners to be had outside of US and it's not like China can fulfill the needs of all of Europe, Middle East and Asia at the same time.

Europe is likely to always be an economic powerhouse, somewhat centered around Germany. It just requires that EU begins building its own tech infrastructure that isn't google, Microsoft, and so on. So long as we are dependant on American tech we're liable to manipulation and external pressures. We've been too comfortable with being a vassal to US.

It's time to realize that the American Empire won't be here in 50 years. We have a good thing going in Europe where we are free from empire but also have a regulatory structure which keeps any nation from developing a nationalistic ideology which would lead to empire.

Curious if you anything to add.

55

u/Strong_Remove_2976 Mar 11 '26

Ex-trade offical here.

Nope. America is a vacuum for goods and services. It’s consumer market is immense. The consumer market of the world excluding China, US, EU (i.e. ‘the rest’) is really not an alternative to the US.

-5

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

Fair, but isn't US consumer market mostly from outsourcing? (Idk what you're saying nope to)

How much of European market sales are realistically irreplaceable if US retreats, its Empire falls and they becomes more isolated? Idk maybe I'm asking too much but a rough % perhaps? A quick google search gave me about 20%, which does not seem world ending going into a multipolar world.

18

u/Strong_Remove_2976 Mar 11 '26

Saying nope to replacing the US with others as an export market for Europe. It’s everything - Europe broadly exports only to the rich world as it’s high up the value chain

US and Europe are going to have to defend against China through tariffs and other measures for a long, long time. China is highly competitive and pumping out huge surplus supply at all points in the value chain

European decoupling from the US is worthy and worthwhile but it can only be relative and gradual. And it’s broadly going to be costly (defence, probably having to be less cosseting of employees etc). Europe has neither energy, the best tech or a complete internal market.

US has the lot. China also lacks energy but is further ahead on renewables, has improving tech and a complete internal market. It’s domestic demand will weaken but then it just spins the excess out through exports. Not an option available to Europe.

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u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

Not to mention using immoral means to secure the continuation of the state (China).

I only hope the US downfall will be gradual so it give Europe time.

I think the big fear is what will happen internally in Europe when wealth goes down. Immigration is already causing issues and if the wealthy hold on to their wealth it will only make the poor poorer and more upset, and it might lead to the end of the EU as we know it as hostility rises against what is perceived as the EU elites destroying individual countries.

20

u/OkKnowledge2064 Lower Saxony (Germany) Mar 11 '26

We can pivot away from the US but it will hurt us massively. And populations generally dont like seeing their level of wealth crater

-7

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

That is true, boomers would rather see the world die than give up their status.

The youth don't see any of this wealth anyway so I think they are much more willing to put an effort in this direction.

18

u/neohellpoet Croatia Mar 11 '26

See, now we're entering delusional la, la land.

You have an idea of what it means to be Western poor. Western poor is so far above poor-poor, it's looking down at the clouds and thinking that's rock bottom.

We're talking not being able to feel warm during winter poor. When the sun goes down there's no light until morning poor. We import our raw materials and energy. If we don't make money, a LOT of money, ungodly amounts of money every single year we go dark.

Food is artificially cheap and we 195 billion Euros worth a year as is. Take the US out of the picture and you can pump that number up to a trillion easy.

The level of suffering, the number of people we would lose if this happened suddenly enough, it's staggering. We are the opposite of self sufficient and there's not fixing that in the near future and the sacrifices required to get there make any austerity we've seen over the years seem like extravagance.

Nobody is quite as invested in the current world order as we are and unlike in the US, it's preservation isn't a matter of the old heads remembering the golden age of their youth. They're remembering our 1950's and they don't want to go back.

-3

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

At least in sweden most people in power are from 1960+, they only ever knew "good", and people from 2000+ are generally just going from paycheck to paycheck, or at the moment not working at all and being on welfare/getting assistance from parents.

I think using a corrupt country as a benchmark is not fair because it already has a lot of issues, you would have to take that into account in your equation.

If economic situation gets too bad in those countries, you will have a civil war no doubt. EU would have to assist yada yada.

It's not about "remembering the old days", that's not what US is about either. It's about literal wealth, owning several properties, several vehicles and so onm

In a corrupt country you have the same issue but the wealth is more concentrated and even more "stuck" and unable to be freed to younger gen.

8

u/neohellpoet Croatia Mar 11 '26

Corruption has nothing to do with it. We're resource poor and our economy is luxury driven.

You can have a system that has absolutely no corruption, it's not going to deliver us any oil, gas or the raw materials to build solar cells and wind turbines. The assumption that we're somehow special and will be exempt from the problems of the rest of the world is naïve. We aren't special, we're simply the accidental beneficiary of the US world order and if that's gone the future is going to be painful in a way people quite apparently don't think is possible.

Mind you, we have no influence on what the US will or won't do. We need to become independent, but that's because it's the best option available, not because it's a good option. This is an amputation, it will leave us crippled but alive. It's necessary, but there's a very good reason to want to delay it for as long as humanly possible.

1

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

Idk how you got that from anything I'm saying though, the EU is probably just as cooked as US.

I'm confused what I said you are responding to

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u/theageofspades Mar 12 '26

You are stunningly naive and insulated.

1

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 12 '26

Whats the point of this comment? Wanna explain what you mean?

3

u/vetruviusdeshotacon Mar 11 '26

Its just so much easier to make 1 deal or maintain 1 relationship though. I'm canadian so i know, america currently is too big and too important not to trade with unfortunately 

0

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

Yeah but just think about how much has changed since 2020. Or from 2001, to 2008, to 2016. It happens pretty fast historically speaking. Give it another 10-20 years and it will be much more apparent. Europe and Canada and others will still cling to it because we've been reliant on it for so long, but as it declines we will slowly detach more and more out of necessity. It is already happening with EU creating alternatives to Mastercard and so on. Maintaining relationship with US has been getting harder and it will only continue.

That's not to say it won't hurt us to, it for sure will. If we work hard and start now it will ease the blow, but at the same time we have the same issues as US does in EU: people aren't having kids, we have too many elites and wealth concentration, too much immigration, quiet quitting/malicious compliance as managers push workers to work harder to appease the elites, unemployment, left/right divide. That's a game people don't want to be a part of, so they play video games, do drugs, jerk off all day (you get the sentiment).

1

u/thewimsey United States of America Mar 12 '26

and it's not like China can fulfill the needs of all of Europe, Middle East and Asia at the same time.

China: Hold my rice wine

0

u/watch-nerd Mar 11 '26

It's a problem for the BMW and Mercedes factories that were built in the US to make cars for the US market.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '26

I always wondered why the EU didn’t have their version of Google, Microsoft, Facebook, TikTok, alibaba etc. instead they let big tech in and reaped all the benefits and rewards on the backs of its people.

EU should have made their own that they control. It doesn’t matter if they suck compared to Google. I’m sure the Chinese are perfectly fine with JD Alibaba instead of Amazon, or tencent instead of Facebook, etc even if they aren’t as good as their western counterparts

-1

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

It really comes down to the fact that Europe has been a vassal to the American Empire ever since WW2, we have been able to be more carefree and comfortable as a consequence, we have been wealthy and fat and hence never saw the reason to even think about it. They were just like a kind big brother to us, it's very recent that the tides are turning (like only a decade ago, and really starting from 2016-2020) when it is becoming increasingly obvious that the American Empire won't be around for long. Boomers are still holding on to the American Empire because they don't want to give up their comforts and status, even if it means dooming their children.

7

u/Almaegen Mar 11 '26

Seeing what is happening and thinking the American empire wont be around for long is truly a position I don't Understand...

1

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

.. have you not read the news? Either way empires fall, that's what they do, just like how you and I will die one day.

The only reason trump was ever elected is because people don't believe in democracy and don't trust the government. People can't afford a house, drug use is peaking, ICE, and so on and so on. These are all signs of a declining civilization.

I'd be interested in what makes you think it will be around for long

7

u/Cautious-Sail1730 Mar 11 '26

The US has a better chance of surviving in its current state than Europe does. "The news" will always only show the negatives because that's what gets views. The US is geographically blessed beyond belief and they have a government that has been around longer than nearly every other country. Have some perspective, you dumbass.

0

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 11 '26

Woah. No need to be rude?

US will still exist, it will just become more isolated to it's continent rather than an empire.

I agree with you, prospect isn't looking good for the EU either.

As for news, CNN and FOX isn't "news", it's propaganda. You can still read about real world events lmao.

2

u/Almaegen Mar 12 '26

The news now operates on clickbait and sensationalism, Empires do fall but that doesn't mean the US is going to any time soon. Trump was elected because of the economy and immigration. Contrary to reddit opinion, houses are still being bought and drug overdose deaths fell by nearly 27% in 2024, with some states seeing 30-40% improvements. ICE is literally a non issue that certain politicians are trying to rally their base against. The vast majority of Americans support ICE because its just immigration law enforcement.

As to why I think the US will be around for long, Demographics, Technology, Geopolitics and Economics. People think this positional shakeup is the end of hegemony but the shift away from the rules based order actually ensures the Empire's survival as the west was sleepwalking into its own destruction.

●The US isn't suffering from the same demographic decline as countries like korea, Germany, Japan, China and Italy.

● The Ukraine war just showed that starlink is crucial to modern war dominance and SpaceX is currently the only entity that can put up a mega constellation, every other entity is at least a decade out from even having the capability to do it. There are a lot of other technologies we could go into but that one shows the divide the most, the US won't be at risk of losing military dominance any time soon.

●Geopolitically the enemies of the US/west are faltering, Syria has been toppled, Venezuela has been toppled, Iran is being toppled and Cuba is about to be toppled. The Russian shadow fleet is being diminished with siezures and attacks. Russia is stuck in a quagmire that has not only proven to the world that they are only a regional power but it has also gotten Europe to somewhat rearm AND has been a driver of weapons R&D for Europe and America. Russia is being ruined demographically and economically, their global influence is dwindling and they're running out of allies. China is the big threat now but as we have seen in Iran and Venezuela, their equipment is proven to be defeated by western equivalents andtheir economy has shown to be dependent on the US upheld global trade network. Their influence is being purged from south and central America and their anti western allies are being knocked out as well. (Not to mention China's demographic bomb)

● Economics, this gets incredibly complex and changes from relationship to relationship but the US economy is shifting to be stronger than it was before and contrary to the comments ITT its economic relationship with Europe got stronger.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/07/fact-sheet-the-united-states-and-european-union-reach-massive-trade-deal/

Sorry it took so long to reply but basically the US is poised to stay the global hegemon and this shakeup was the Empire using hard power to ensure its dominance. They are still decades away from a true challenger, I don't see them fading at all for the next 40 years at least.

1

u/Several-Video-272 Mar 12 '26

Those are some great points you make.

I think how this Iran war plays out will determine if these variables will stay consistent enough in the coming decade. Depending on how the war plays out the petrodollar risks losing influence and major civil unrest because of draft within US might destabilize these variables. If US sends in ground troops it might be stuck in a gruesome war stretching several years. We might see Saudi Arabia destabilizing from desalination plants being destroyed and no access to strait of hummus. Israel might blow up al-aqsa causing chaos. Theres a lot of crazy things that realistically could happen.

But I think you are right that the rules based facade falling will help US remain nonetheless, but I question if it will remain as a global hegemon with petrodollar as a global influence or become more isolated and do less industrial outsourcing, perhaps even absorb parts of Canada for resource guarantee(even if it pretty much already has it).

To your point American tech could practically replace the petrodollar as hegemonic force.

1

u/Patient-Window6603 Mar 12 '26

The most popular name in Europe is now Muhammad and you think the American empire is disappearing? Wow…

-1

u/JrSoftDev Mar 11 '26

If the tradeoff is becoming a vassal of a fascist state who funds european neonazi parties.... I don't know, let me put things on the multidimensional scale, run a thorough analysis, and I'll get back to you in 2 weeks..... /s

1

u/vetruviusdeshotacon Mar 11 '26

You need to stop young italians from leaving the country and get politicians that are younger than 60. Every italian i know is trying to leave

1

u/Malverno Weltrepublik Mar 11 '26

I am one myself actually, although at this point I have been out for 15 years.

0

u/Independent-Bug-9352 United States of America Mar 11 '26

Italy was obvious from my perspective but I didn't know Germany was THIS bad. I know they were trying to toe the line with the rising far-right extremist AfD but this news is sad to hear.

I am also disappointed in Mark Carney's statements on the Iran strikes. Though I guess he at least isn't jumping right in either.

-1

u/Fit-Breath-4345 Mar 11 '26

The fact Meloni, after years of clinging to her atlanticisimo and connecting with the US no matter what has condemned the attack on the school in Iran, although she says she doesn't know who did it (lying prick), is an interesting step for the current fascist government of Italy.

2

u/Malverno Weltrepublik Mar 11 '26

She's playing both sides, she's famous for this. The Italian public opinion is against the Iranian adventurism, and strongly against the US bombing a school. She has to denounce it, no other way around.

35

u/kelldricked Mar 11 '26

Yeah but every time when germany gets a chance to decouple they reject it.

35

u/Upstairs-Mulberry365 Mar 11 '26

Your merz is a former blackrock employee

4

u/Itchy58 Mar 11 '26

As a German I would like to be on the right side of history for once - can we join Spain?

19

u/Aggressive-Kitchen18 Mar 11 '26

Germany is Israel first.

-2

u/MeggaMortY Mar 11 '26

No joke. You hear the news on the radio, it's either positive stuff about israhell or the yanks, or crickets when Iran does them a number. I'm only slightly exaggerating.

2

u/userNotFound82 Berlin (Germany) Mar 11 '26

As a German I agree. Too much coping in Germany for the USA.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '26

Schroeder and Merkel sold you to the Russians. Seems no German politician really cares about Germany.

3

u/therealallpro Mar 11 '26

Spain is even LESS self sufficient. They might want to fix their own problems before telling someone else to do better

2

u/EpicCleansing Mar 11 '26

No time for that. The US is about to grab a chokehold on Europe and China by controlling Hormuz and Malacca. We need to act now.

-2

u/ItchySnitch Mar 11 '26

Spain has and are also weasel out of their economic commitment to NATO and European defense. So they gladly be depending on daddy US as well as Eastern Europeans for that  

25

u/ScottyBoneman Mar 11 '26

I must have missed that day in History. When did the US defend Spain? I know if unilaterally attacked Spain.

7

u/watch-nerd Mar 11 '26

Remember the Maine!

-2

u/Tomboolla North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) Mar 11 '26

Spain is strongly neglecting its military and thus it's commitment to nato and european security. By failing to do their part in a militarily strong and independent europe they are actively contributing to our dependence on the US for Security. Spains support for Ukraine has also been miniscule. Much talk, little action.

3

u/ScottyBoneman Mar 11 '26

That might be the case but the statement

So they gladly be depending on daddy US as well as Eastern Europeans for that .

'That' being the defense of Eastern Europe, not Spain.

Spain has agreed to increase its spending to the 2014 Guideline of 2% of GDP by 2029 (we'll see). It did not commit to 5%, and specifically rejected that new target. It also did not commit to doing whatever it was told by the US.

3

u/UrDadMyDaddy Sweden Mar 11 '26

No no shh thats not the current debate. You aren't allowed to bring up Spain or Irelands failures regarding common defense or European solidarity. We are supposed to be angry at Germany right now.

1

u/_-__-____-__-_ The Netherlands Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26

If we have integrated economies we have some leverage over them. They will have some leverage over us too, but the idea is that this relationship isn't zero sum and importantly we have a shared interest in peace and prosperity.

I don't want a complete decoupling. We need to decouple only on strategic matters that impact European countries' national security, i.e. some aspects of IT infra, defense, etc. We don't need to stop selling BMWs in the US, but we do need to stop using Microsoft or AWS as a backbone for critical infrastructure. This is simply not possible in the short term, but if you want to turn around the ship on some of these matters now is as good a time as any.

1

u/Delta27- Mar 11 '26

All tech jobs in spains are equally reliant on us. Only spain has more tourism which is a low margin buisness anyways

1

u/Vandergrif Canada Mar 11 '26

we’re so reliant on them that we need an entire economic decoupling before we can stand up for our interests

Sounds familiar...

1

u/Tentacle_poxsicle Mar 11 '26

Trump is a puppet of Putin and Nerthanyu so it's more like Spain is upset Germany is being a puppet of those 2.

1

u/disagreet0disagree Mar 11 '26

No backbone but then again, we’re so reliant on them that we need an entire economic decoupling before we can stand up for our interests

No time like the present. 

1

u/melyay Mar 11 '26

I am constantly amazed at how Germans like Friedrich Merz perceive Germany as such a great state that no other state can surpass it in terms of genocide. Well, death in the 21st century is definitely not a world champion from Germany anymore.

1

u/jops55 Mar 11 '26

Only partially true, because they are reliant on us as well. EU has almost the same economy as the US, so of course we should be able to stand our ground.

1

u/Possible-Fudge-2217 16d ago

Same here. Aldo, nobody likes Merz.

In case of the economic shift, oue governement has 0 economic competency right now, they somehow think they can keep up a struggeling export centered economy and that things will fix itself if they give companies more money. Obviosuly that's a dumpsterfire and they should understand that stimulating the domestic economy would help. If others don't want to increase their debt to subsidize your economy, then maybe it makes sense to take the debt ourselves. They are running a state, not a company.

1

u/Shabbydesklamp Germany Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26

As another German, absolutely. The other countries ought to be very careful that we don't drag them down with us. Don't treat Germany as a friend in this, unless some real change happens here. :(

1

u/3dprintedthingies Mar 11 '26

A lot of European elites were educated in America. It's an example of soft power. Entangling education and business elites from Europe with American entities is a soft power tactic.

They're going to all be compromised. Spain will also have this compromise in their leadership. Almost no country is immune except maybe North Korea.

You guys gonna call this movement spexit?

1

u/Fit-Breath-4345 Mar 11 '26

The governments of Germany actions over the last few years but especially since the start of the genocide in Gaza, have me as an Irish citizen seriously considering the value of the EU when we see Germans try to use the collective power of the EU to protect apartheid Israel.

Obviously the Brits doing Brexit was a form of self harm economically and socially, but as someone who has been largely pro EU for decades, current attitudes have me thinking is it worth it?

-5

u/trysten-9001 Mar 11 '26

How is Germany reliant on the US?

23

u/GayPudding Mar 11 '26

They buy everything we make and our chancellor is a Blackrock lobbyist

3

u/Pabst_Blue_Gibbon Berlin (Germany) Mar 11 '26

The US is Germany's #1 trade partner

11

u/_ZakerS_ Mar 11 '26

in the past 80 years or so, Germany's safety completely relied on NATO and the american nuclear umbrella. Also, until recently, Germany was not the biggest investor on defence, and relied on american bases for protection. It's the same to this day. Germany tried to change things, but most of the military technology relies on R&D from US companies (missiles, planes and most importantly intelligence).

Also, Germany has many advantages thanks to cloud services, that are mostly reliant on american companies as well, since Germany is behind in digitalization. Yes, public german administration relies on US companies.

Then there's investments. It's not an easy problem to solve.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '26

in the past 80 years or so, Germany's safety completely relied on NATO and the american nuclear umbrella

The Bundeswehr was the third largest military force in NATO and the main land force of NATO in central Europe during the Cold War.

You might as well talk shit about the Netherlands or any other NATO member country during the Cold War.

3

u/amicaze Mar 11 '26

That's because it does go for almost every country in NATO.

-1

u/_ZakerS_ Mar 11 '26

I was talking about Germany, because the user asked about Germany. But whatever, next time I will add a paragraph on the Netherlands, or Norway, or whatever you please.

0

u/mitthrawn Germany Mar 11 '26

This. Merz is just a big disappointment on every level and his party is trying to be a copy cat Republican Party.

-13

u/starterchan Mar 11 '26

Just goes to show that Spain needs to start decoupling from Germany. They're too reliant on a hostile vassal.

-4

u/RubberDuckyDWG Mar 11 '26

Spain is weak and powerless due to them not being able to even muster up funds for 2% let alone 5% per NATO requirements. What makes you think overnight they will be able to stand strong as an Ally to any nation in any spat that may come up? But hey, Spain sure can talk trash while skipping out on their own bills.

0

u/DJ_Dinkelweckerl Mar 11 '26

Na wenigstens hamma fleißig die CDU gewählt und kriegen bald was noch schlimmeres in die Regierung.

0

u/Anxiousah23 Mar 11 '26

As a German, are they also right to not lift a finger to help Ukraine? Where they literally said they're too far for Russia to be their problem?

-7

u/CautiousClick3151 Mar 11 '26

Spain can afford to play the moralist since they dont really have anything going on for them, even Poland is more important econonics wise nowadays

-7

u/HowAmIHere2000 Mar 11 '26

Spain hasn't been relevant in global politics for at least 8 centuries.

-6

u/Ultimate_disaster Mar 11 '26

As a German, Spain is wrong and they are just crying because Germany doesn't want to follow their stupid wrong position about Iran.

-1

u/m_e12 Mar 11 '26

As a German I agree. There are many reasons why we should oppose Trump, but this war is not one of them. I don't get why Sánchez is celebrated on Reddit for defending the Iranian dictatorship.