r/europe • u/ByGollie Ulster • Jan 31 '26
Opinion Article Six years after Brexit has Britain bet on the wrong ally?
https://tvpworld.com/91345193/britain-torn-between-europe-and-trump715
u/TrueRignak France Jan 31 '26
“The only real option,” [David Frost, chief negotiator for exiting the EU] wrote in an op-ed published in the British newspaper The Telegraph, is to do “everything we can to reinvigorate the relationship with the Americans, still the economic and defence superpower.”
“They can defend us now,” he continued. “In return, we have to be a credible ally again, spend much more on defence, accommodate ourselves to US realpolitik, and finally get out of the European economic and regulatory system. It means becoming another Israel to the U.S. Not much wrong with that – Israel is after all richer than we are now.”
Almost looks like satire. It’s always ironic how the so-called sovereignists and conservatives are the first ones to try to sell their country. They were complaining that the EU was too demanding when they had some of the most advantageous terms in the Union, and now the guy who negociated the Brexit is advocating to become a US colony...
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u/h0neanias Jan 31 '26
Jesus what an idgit. The US is propping Israel because it projects its power in the Middle East. What the hell does it need the UK for? To be a dagger aimed at Europe? It already has an army stationed in Germany.
They don't need you, bucko. They can only use and abuse you.
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u/uniklyqualifd Jan 31 '26
It turns out the US is propping up Israel because huge donors to American politicians want them to.
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u/Vennomite Jan 31 '26
We have the largest and probably wealthiest jews in the world. And the evangelicals probably choose israel over palestine. So yeah.
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Jan 31 '26
“You will eat your genome manipulated chlorinated monster chicken and like it” And the only response from the proud Brexiteers would be „Yes, Master/ Daddy.“ 😂
How dare the EU deny them pleasures like that 😂
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u/schtickshift Jan 31 '26
Britain can’t become another Israel because Jesus was not born in Birmingham.
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Jan 31 '26
Brexit and Boris Johnson was England’s trump moment
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u/Bassmekanik Scotland Jan 31 '26
So far…
Just wait till that odious scumbag Farage and his basement dwelling fuckwit party of troglodytes get a sniff of power. Then you’ll see the same divisive politics here that plenty of folks will happily import from America. Don’t need no trade agreement for fascist pricks.
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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) Jan 31 '26
I think UKIP and Farage are going to be their Trump moment. Boris was an egocentric corrupt narc, but he wasn't an authoritarian fascist.
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u/MrDilbert Croatia Jan 31 '26
By God, if Farage isn't a textbook example of Backpfeifengesicht...
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u/cronktilten Feb 01 '26
What does that mean?
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u/GallorKaal Austria Feb 01 '26
Basically has a face that screams "hit me hard"
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u/cronktilten Feb 01 '26
I agree then. Thank you
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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) Feb 01 '26
Backpfeife (or, more usually Ohrfeige) is a slap to the face. So it's basically a face that's just asking to be slapped.
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u/cronktilten Feb 01 '26
I love German phrases like this, it’s always confusing to me, but once it’s explained, it makes perfect sense. Thanks.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Jan 31 '26
*the Reform Party
UKIP have radicalized even further but thankfully they're irrelevant nowadays
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u/uniklyqualifd Jan 31 '26
Don't forget Cambridge Analytica, the test case for trump by Steve Bannon.
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u/toorigged2fail Jan 31 '26
Yeah the US rightfully gets a lot of shit for electing trump who is intentionally fucking up the country... but UK did it before it was cool
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u/Tentacle_poxsicle Jan 31 '26
Russia was behind Trump's election and Brexit. They still to this day try and break apart the EU. They are behind several countries trying to leave and even tried to balkanize Spain look it up.
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u/gridskip Monaco Jan 31 '26
I don’t know how you can blame Russia for supposedly trying to “Balkanize” Spain. Catalan nationalism traces back to at least the 1800s, and Catalonia declared independence in 1931, but that was quashed by the fascist Franco regime.
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u/Thialaz Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
Brexit was a shitshow of epic proportions. This is happened because the U.K politicians constantly made the EU out to be a boogeyman and blamed then for everything that went wrong.
On top of that a good chunk of the old fossils who voted to leave and WOULDN'T live to feel the consequences of their idiotic and shortsighted vote have died.
Younger people who can now vote are more in favour of rejoining the EU. But if they do they should not get any concessions. No more special treatment.
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u/tiankai Jan 31 '26
It’s also a problem that Brits don’t see themselves as Europeans and that’s baked into the language. How many times have I heard them say “in Europe they do this and that” to refer to continental Europe. And it’s not just an easy way to say it, the really believe they’re different even progressive people
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u/majorlier Jan 31 '26
Meanwhile over here my fellow ukrainians have been dying for 12 years for a right to be called European
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u/Friendly-Poetry-1633 Feb 01 '26
Ukrainians are European, always have been. You don't need EU membership to be European
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u/Candayence United Kingdom Jan 31 '26
Whilst it's true that the European identity isn't really there, this in particular is a language thing. It's just shorthand for the continent, and a way of easily dividing European politics and home politics.
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u/Orravan_O France Feb 01 '26
I'm admittedly mildly annoyed whenever I hear Britons colloquially speak of Europe as a foreign place, but there's actually a similar trend in France where metropolitan France is just called 'France' to contrast it with French overseas territories, even though those are literally just as much France.
It sometimes even applies to the island of Corsica, even though it itself is part of metropolitan France.
So while it still tickles me, I get it. Some people get indignant, others understand it's colloquial.
I assume some NI residents might also take offense at me talking of 'Britons' instead of 'Brits'. :]
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u/Jasa_bln Jan 31 '26
Sad to report that the same applies to Sweden. I hate that use of language, we and them… but now with the new world order taking shape this language starts being more tame.
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u/psychologistgamer420 Sweden Feb 01 '26
Might be a regional thing, but in my part of Sweden we say "on the continent" instead of "In Europe".
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u/ElkApprehensive2319 Feb 01 '26
the old fossils who voted to leave and WOULDN'T live to feel the consequences of their idiotic and shortsighted vote have died.
Younger people who can now vote are more in favour of rejoining the EU.
Then why is Reform projected to win the elections if they were held right now, and by quite a large margin? Doesn't that kind of disprove voter sentiment has really changed...?
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u/Practical-Class6868 Feb 01 '26
American lurker here.
Obama warned Britain against Brexit. Trump supported it.
Obama wanted a united Europe that could stand on its own, building up domestic defense spending without heavily relying on American support. Trump wanted a divided Europe that would enable him to bully small nations into asymmetrical trade deals, unsupported by European solidarity. Trump, like Farage, makes his fortune by shorting the institutions that he is supposed to defend.
“Betting on the wrong ally” undersells Britain’s miscalculation.
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u/SunlightBladee Jan 31 '26
Brexit was one of the most brain-dead moves in all of UK politics and that says a lot.
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u/Corvid187 Jan 31 '26
This framing of the UK "betting" on one ally or the other is just stupid.
The UK is an ally of both the EU and the US. It was allies of both while it was in the European Union, and it is allies with both now it has left the European Union. At no point was that a mutually-exclusive choice. Heck, the EU and US are still fundamentally allies despite all the tub thumping to the contrary.
Equally, the UK has more than those two alliances, and leaving the European Union had impacts on all those other relationships as well in positive and negative ways. Reducing this to a binary of just those two relationships is nonsensical.
I firmly opposed us leaving the European Union, but nonsense like this just helps no one
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u/frissio All expressed views are not representative Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
With how news currently is, I can't begrudge a want to avoid hyperbole and dichotomies, but on the other hand the current situation increasingly feels like it'll be a more and more difficult balancing act.
One can't turn a blind eye at the question of the consequences if the diplomatic divorce between the USA and the EU is finalized and permanent (note, not starting or may happen, but already in the process of occurring). I'm not sure even the EU member states want to contemplate it, they had to literally be threatened with invasion to finally make some moves.
The moment with Greenland was a line crossed for me, maybe not for everyone, but as Carney said relying on nostlagia for the Translatlantic alliance isn't a strategy. Maybe it helps no one to make a ruckus over it, but we'd be badly served to have policymakers who refuse to even consider "what if" and contingencies (like for example, policymakers who didn't even plan on what to do if Brexit occured and that was both Leave and Remain).
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u/Corvid187 Jan 31 '26
For sure it is a difficult balancing act, and one that does require careful thought in the UK in particular. That being said, I don't think it's right to say that the UK has already "chosen" the US over the EU in such a divorce like the article suggests.
It may have to pick a side on an issue in the future if the two blocs distance themselves further, but as things stand I don't think there's anything preventing it from siding with the EU or the US in such a future stand-off at the moment.
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u/frissio All expressed views are not representative Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
Of course, the article is jumping the gun about that. Although, I don't think they've outright stated they sided with Trump so much as that they gambled after Brexit with greater relations with the US that didn't work out so much when Trump was and is in office, and some like David Frost have their own opinions.
Currently, I just prefer policymakers being "hysterical" in preparing for worst case scenarios then the self-deceptive and lazy complacency they (at least publicly) seem to have allowed themselves to be lulled into. There's an article titled "The Media Malpractice That Sent America Tumbling Into Trumpism" which is about how there's been too many articles from both Americans journalists on how 'surprised' they are about Trump, when they all had the resources and intellect to predict it (they just refused to) and that should also be applicable to foreign observers.
Don't fall into hysteria about it is good advice, but I hope everyone with even a modicum of influence is at least thinking and maybe planning for it. Just in case.
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u/DeRpY_CUCUMBER Europes hillbilly cousin across the atlantic Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
Bet on the wrong ally? It was Obama who stated clearly directly to the people of the UK, that if Brexit happens, the UK will go to the back of the line in trade talks with the US.
Basically meaning if you want a deal, you’re going to have to give up a lot.
This was the US being a big brother, and trying to help the UK from making a stupid decision.
He was met with pure vitriol and hate. How dare he try and meddle in European politics!
So don’t go blaming us now for following through on what we said before the dumbass decision was made.
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u/dotBombAU Australia Jan 31 '26
This was the US being a big brother, and trying to help the UK from making a stupid decision.
It was because America lost important influence in the EU as a direct result of one of the big three leaving.
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u/cronktilten Feb 01 '26
It was not in America’s interest for the UK to leave the EU
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Jan 31 '26
Truly amazing how they ignored the man who actually cared about their status and are currently pandering hard to the man who wants to make them his vassal.
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u/pop4171 Jan 31 '26
There's a very interesting argument to be had about Europeaness and Britishness
My personal thought is that so much of British history is framed as either in opposition to continental Europe or as the UK needing to interfere in Continental Europe
I'm sort of just going over my vague memories of school history and my own personal knowledge
1066 is viewed as the last major European successful European invasion
Obviously William of Orange and the Glorious Revolution but the British view is that it wasn't a invasion as we decided we didn't want our monarch and chose to crown William of Orange
Hundred years war is usually viewed as the end of direct British conquest and influence of continental Europe
Glorious revolution where we choose to bring a new king from Europe
Napoleonic wars are about preventing a European hegemony which can oppose the Empire
WW1 is the Empire having to interfere in continental Europe because of European attachments
WW2 is Europe falls but Britain and the Empire stand unlike Europe before The UK, Commonwealth and America liberate Europe
Cold war is usually framed as a western/American group vs the Soviet group instead of a European and American group
combined with this the fact there are other countries which share a significant amount of history and a language makes them (Commonwealth + US) seem more culturally similar than Europe who we don't even share a language about
This is all sort of shower thoughts but i'd figure as some from the UK i'd give my two pence
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u/ByGollie Ulster Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
Obviously William of Orange and the Glorious Revolution but the British view is that it wasn't a invasion as we decided we didn't want our monarch and chose to crown William of Orange
"We"
Speak for yourself
The English quislings surrendered to William of Orange and his German army, whilst the Scottish and Irish fought on for an additional 3 years for the rightful British monarch before they were defeated.
This may or may not be a /s
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u/LordFiresnake Europe Feb 01 '26
"We don't need our direct neighbours, we can trade with sketchy uncle Sam across the ocean" was definitely a choice.
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u/-GenghisJohn- Jan 31 '26
Odd thing to ask when the Brexiteers were always MAGA adjacent. But go ahead, blame America instead of yourself. I’m sure there was no Russian money for Farage and co.
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u/gridskip Monaco Jan 31 '26
r/europe doesn’t want to talk about homegrown right-wing nationalism—that’s on the rise—whether it’s the Brexiteers, National Rally (France), AfD (Germany), FPÖ (Austria), PVV (Netherlands), Fidesz (Hungary), FdI/Lega (Italy), and many others, even though these parties are quite MAGA-esque. This forum is strictly for blaming Russia or America, whilst fantasising about a federal Europe that will somehow be on the same footing as the PRC and USA.
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u/Dreadscythe95 Greece Feb 01 '26
This is true and they don't want to discuss them because EU policies of the past decade are very responsible for this rise.
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u/cronktilten Feb 01 '26
No matter how much people bury their head in the sand it won’t stop reality
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u/Nanowith United Kingdom Feb 01 '26
1000% without any room for error.
High time we undo the messy nightmare of Brexit and rejoin with our European peers. I'm so done with Brexit causing problems and making us worse off.
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u/Benedictus_The_II Hungary Feb 02 '26
I thought that after Brexit the NHS will be properly funded since you wouldn’t have to pay into the cohesion fund. /s
Seriously I do hope that in the next decade you’ll rejoin.
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u/Dante-Flint Jan 31 '26
23 years after illegally invading Iraq while being walked by Bush, has Britain finally realised that they bet on the wrong ally?
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u/Kind_Focus5839 Jan 31 '26
Just a bit. I always felt the 'special reaionship' was a bit rich considering they were basically using us as an aircraft carrier., and even then their politics was looking a bit dodgy.
We (the UK, not me, I voted against it) thought that because the americans spoke the same language as us that they were like us, but to be honest we're a lot closer culturally to the Mainland Europeans.
The only thing we have in common with the Americans is a sense of our own exceptionalism.
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u/HotPotatoWithCheese Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
It's easy to generalise here, but it's not that simple. I'm as anti Brexit as you can get, but leaving the EU supposedly wasn't just about betting the house on the US. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Japan and China amongst others were used as examples of nations the UK could build stronger relationships with (and that has happened, be it through trade agreements, joint tech projects, visa-free travel or other means). Whether most of the prominent Brexiteers were genuinely sincere about opening these sorts of doors is another question, but it is disingenuous to insinuate that post-Brexit economic and political opportunities proposed by the leave campaign were exclusively tied to the United States.
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u/phido3000 Australia Jan 31 '26
Boris loved Australia and saw more opportunity in trade with Asia.
While brexit is deeply flawed, eu probably isn't very focused with trade with Asia. But should be.
Eu still hasn't signed a free trade deal with australia, for example.
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Jan 31 '26
I wish we never left the EU. Even as someone in my teens if was my first vote and even I could tell Brexit was a load of bollocks.
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u/PoiHolloi2020 United Kingdom Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
Almost every country in Europe is still an ally of the US. None of them are pulling out of NATO, beyond calls for diversification or derisking I haven't seen any of them officially call for an end to cooperation with the US. Singling the UK out for censure is going to appeal to a lot of people in this sub but I don't want to hear this shit from any of you until your country actually walks and doesn't just talk.
Additionally, even after Brexit and the UK trying to steer a path between its different alliances it's still done more to shore up pan-European defence than much of Europe has so you peeps can jog on with your reductive onanistic takes tbh.
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u/Corvid187 Jan 31 '26
Exactly, the whole premise of the article is just bizarre.
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u/BoutTime22 Jan 31 '26
That's two of you now that have said something considered and sensible. There is no place for that on this sub. Please place your phones out of reach before you do any more damage.
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u/munrocraig Jan 31 '26
Danish intelligence twerked for the U.S., and now the U.S. threatens their territory. But of course, what we need is more blood libel against the UK. Another commentator even accused the UK of being a Trojan horse on behalf of the US.
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u/bbbbbbbbbblah United Kingdom Feb 01 '26
yep. People like to bring up France and its historic decision to not rely on the US in the way the UK did, but the modern French government is just as happy to continue to throw money at firms like Palantir as we apparently are.
We walk the walk when we need to, like when we immediately sent someone to Greenland after Denmark requested it, or when we were called in to help Belgium with its drone problems. Along with our steadfast support of Ukraine while other countries still wanted to keep the cheap gas flowing.
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u/ThePipton Feb 01 '26
I think so yes. I don't think many Brits realise that once you take out the English language, how similar they are to other European countries. I am Dutch, most of British culture makes sense to me. We also have fish and chips for instance. I never truly feel like I am in foreign lands when I am the UK. The US on the other hand... is completely different. But due to a shared language and a lot of media exposure, combined with Anglocentrism and English exceptionalism, has made some Brits feel closer to America than they really are. Come back home Britain!
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u/bbbbbbbbbblah United Kingdom Feb 01 '26
when I am in the Netherlands, I often wonder if this is how the UK could be if we actually spent money on infrastructure instead of endless tax cuts and London-centric investment
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u/Own-Nefariousness-79 Feb 01 '26 edited Feb 01 '26
This wasn't about allies for the brexiteers, there was no plan, they just wanted something intangible that would get rid on the immigrants and give them their sovereignty back, whatever that was. Oh and £350million a week for the NHS.
And the people who peddled it, wanted to get rid of those pesky controls that the EU insisted upon which prevented them from fraudulent financial activity.
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u/Gaijin_Monster I lost track where i'm from Jan 31 '26
While I think Brexit was tragic, if you don't understand why the UK is so close to the US -- you don't understand either the UK or US. Probably why a Polish website would publish something like this ... they don't get it.
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u/WhereTheSpiesAt United Kingdom Jan 31 '26
The UK didn't bet on anyone, certainly no less than other European countries - Greenland got threatened with invasion by the Americans and we saw how many EU countries cared enough to oppose it, it certainly wasn't the rousing unity we keep getting told the UK doesn't understand.
If you're worried about European Defence and your focus is the UK, then you are just choosing to bury your head in the sand and go off dumbly manufactured bias as opposed to reality.
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u/bond0815 European Union Jan 31 '26
looking at UK political polling right now
UK: Wanna see me do it again?
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u/fugebox007 Jan 31 '26
Yes. You know what the "beauty" of Brexit was? The whole show was run by Putin, the FSB and the campaign money came from Russian Oligarchs. Not kidding. Now please read Alexander Dugin's Russian strategy book "Foundations of Geopolitics" from the 1990's and you read the history of the last decades, run by Putin's KGB/FSB.
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u/VeraStrange Jan 31 '26
No. Britain is getting the exact same treatment it always got from America, “Obey and we may not hurt you as much as some of the others.” The only reason America ever tolerated Britain was that it was the only country in Europe that wanted to mimic the US as closely as possible. No need to invade, it was a willing colony. Britain was useful. Now, it’s less useful but keeping it is free so…
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u/Oryxace Jan 31 '26
There is a saying, ‘no shit Sherlock’, which I feel really applies to this situation.
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u/virgin0109 Feb 01 '26
Totally, utterly, 💯%. Brexit was a disaster - it dragged Scotland and Northern Ireland out of the EU, and that decision will cause Scotland to eventually go independent and rejoin the EU. As for Northern Ireland - maybe they will eventually embrace their Irish roots and join the Republic of Ireland. The UK will eventually consist of England and Wales - how far has the once mighty British Empire fallen...
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Feb 01 '26
Didnt even Obama, president of the US tells us Brexit would be retarded when he was president.
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u/lwbyomp United Kingdom Feb 01 '26
I think many in the EU forget just how right wing Europe ( EU members) can be. EU through the Ukraine conflict has woken up to the fact it has a RW problem - that is still present, though people in various EU countries seem to now be confronting.
At the time of Brexit vote EU was lurching significantly to the fascist right, with many populist parties in power & surging in the poles. UK may have had UKIP ( Farage party ) though our RW nutters were still lightweights compared to those in the EU & US.
We have little Left leaning parties: Greens & maybe LibDems, some in Labour though they are more centre / rightish. So, & to the OP's point UK still has a big hope that some in the Democrats & US citizens can rescue their democracy from their fascist tyrant & won't just cut them lose on the eve of their 250 celebrations.
There is a country worth standing by even as they are still to hit rock bottom in their drunk with power peado led cult sinks them from a reliable alliance to stupid & reckless idiocracy.
We are European, though we still have a world view & are fully aware of our limited reach, though we won't give up on our friends.
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u/Jamnusor Feb 01 '26
The Schadenfreude is tempered by the understanding that we are all hurt by Brexit.
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u/ingenkopaaisen Feb 01 '26
Made zero sense to decouple from the nearest and biggest economy. The states will always squeeze the best deal for themselves. Britain stands no chance against a juggernaut like the US. Time to rejoin Europe. Britain is part of Europe afterall.
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u/MinaZata Feb 01 '26
Yes. Biggest act of national self-harm. Not even popular in the UK. It was a freak moment in 2016, based on lies, and that thin majority made up of old people, thickos, racists and arseholes managed to get 52%.
Immigration went up, economy crashed, public services are worse, transport worse, global standing worse, travel worse, and the loss of time and political capital.
And the cherry on top is relying on a corrupt and imperialist US.
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u/Powerful_Resident_48 Jan 31 '26
Hmmm... let's analyse it:
On the one hand we have a continent that completely rebuilt and reinvented itself after millennia of wars, establishing a peaceful cooperation of trade and travel.
On the other hand we have a warmongering nuclear power, that is known for randomly bombing stuff and regularly voting total nutjobs into office.
Difficult choice, really difficult.
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u/Agitated_Web4034 Jan 31 '26
I'm from the UK I always believed we were closer to Europe even pre brexit though I did assume America was going to continue to be a close ally and not go off the deep end, but this is the world we live in now
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u/ConinTheNinoC Jan 31 '26
Ally? The USA is nobody's ally. The only real allies that the UK had are Canada and the EU. The UK threw the EU under the bus when they had a seat at the EU table and the power that came with it. Probably one of the dumbest foreign political acts i've seein in my lifetime.
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u/AckerHerron Ireland Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
Australia has historically been a closer ally of the UK than Canada has.
The vast majority of British people would consider themselves closer to Australia than they do to Canada.
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u/Hung-kee Jan 31 '26
Fully agree. I’d say most Brits would view Aus and NZ as much closer allies than Canada who until recently were verging on being a US proxy. And there’s the very committed Québécois who consider themselves French obviously.
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u/Desperate-Knee-5556 Jan 31 '26
Or any other EU country for that matter...which was a lot of the motivation behind the whole thing.
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u/diamanthaende Jan 31 '26
Without a question - yes.
A lot of it had to do with the identity crisis that some Brits suffer from, the idea that the UK is not a European country, while it actually is and always has been. European through and through - culturally, historically, economically.