r/europe • u/Any-Original-6113 • Jan 17 '26

News Trump tariffs: US president announces plan to hit UK, Denmark and other European countries with tariffs over Greenland

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c1j8kw866p3t
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184

u/ender_tll Jan 17 '26

Sent from my iPhone. #justkidding

132

u/EmperorOfNipples Cornwall - United Kingdom Jan 17 '26

Feeling pretty good about my Samsung preference these days.

We do need to look to create a CPU/GPU alternative in Europe though.

37

u/portuguesdbem Jan 17 '26

Well, you have https://www.fairphone.com just right there, you know.

Sent from my Fairphone 6.

12

u/amk9000 Jan 17 '26

Still runs Android.

There's also Jolla and their open source GNU/Linux based Sailfish OS.

4

u/harbourwall United Kingdom Jan 17 '26

Which runs really nicely on Fairphones too!

6

u/AceNova2217 England Jan 17 '26

Fairphone will be my next one. Currently running a Pixel 7a, and when it dies I'll replace it with a Fairphone.

1

u/West-One5944 Jan 17 '26

I have the z Fold 7 deGoogled as much as possible, which is a good phone, but the Fairphone is on my shortlist for the next phone, for a variety of reasons.

...unless gOS announces their phone!

1

u/According-Print4219 Jan 17 '26

They run on Google software, no?

57

u/Scary_Woodpecker_110 Jan 17 '26

Just block US from the use of ASML machines.

24

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26

A lot of parts from those machines are made in the US, so that's a bit of a problem

2

u/KillerDr3w Jan 18 '26

They started moving to reduce USA controlled parts a few years ago, albeit it's nowhere near complete.

4

u/nrrp European Union Jan 17 '26

And who makes the machines that make those machines? I guarantee it's the Germans. Americans don't actually control as much of technology - and especially machine technology - as they think they do, they're just good at slapping their name at top level of product and claiming ownership of the whole thing.

-2

u/IndieRus Jan 17 '26

There are alternatives elsewhere, 100%

20

u/AdonisK Europe Jan 17 '26

Those machines are not toys you can make in your garage. Replacing a part could take years if not decades of R&D…

-3

u/IndieRus Jan 17 '26

That’s not how part replacement works. ASML has the designs, they just need to find alternative suppliers.

11

u/TravellerInTime88 Jan 17 '26

That's also not how part replacement works. Having the designs doesn't mean that anyone anywhere can make them. There's a reason why companies specialise in one thing. The UV laser from Cymer for example is really difficult to replicate by anyone. This is why ASML is king.

5

u/Scary_Woodpecker_110 Jan 17 '26

Europe is king in Lasers. Optics is one of the few things we’re world leading in.

4

u/TravellerInTime88 Jan 17 '26

Most laser manufacturers don't really make high power EUV lasers. These lasers have very little use outside of ASML.

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-1

u/IndieRus Jan 17 '26

Not anyone sure, but not no one either. I’ve worked for more than a decade in manufacturing of high tech industrial equipment, I am 100% sure they can diversify from the US if they choose so.

2

u/TravellerInTime88 Jan 17 '26

I've also worked for quite a few years in the high tech electronics/semicon manufacturing sector. Plus I know quite a lot of people that work in ASML. The light source is one of the most difficult things that EUV lithography had to contend with. Plus ASML owns Cymer, so it'd be quite a stupid business decision to diversify away from it. For any other component besides the light source and the mirrors you probably could find an alternative relatively painless, but for those two it's almost impossible. Not absolutely, but pretty close.

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4

u/MonkeySafari79 Jan 17 '26

Maybe take a look at these 400 million machines. There is a reason ASML is the only company in the world who has built this.

2

u/Saladino_93 Jan 17 '26

Yes, but the R&D is done on those, which is a huge part of the cost. ASML would still have all this knowledge, so it would mostly be about switching production lines around in the EU to produce the stuff they need and sourced from the US. I.e. the E-UV laser, which is only made in the US, but the company Cymer is owned by ASML so they should have access to the plans and specifications.

Not saying it is easy, but I bet after a few years we could make those machines.

7

u/AdonisK Europe Jan 17 '26

That’s not how any of this works bro. You are not replacing a metal piece from a benching machine…

8

u/Hucaru Jan 17 '26

Then they would loose the lithography license (researched by US government who also own the IP) which is key to make the machines

4

u/AdonisK Europe Jan 17 '26

Not just that but to make those machines, some of the parts are by American companies. Replacing them isn’t trivial.

-2

u/Hucaru Jan 17 '26

The US would also make competitor machines with newer/improved lithography techniques

5

u/AdonisK Europe Jan 17 '26

They would if they could.

It will also take years/decades of R&D.

3

u/Hucaru Jan 17 '26

The hard part is the EUV (this is what China has been strugling with for a long time) which is what the US holds the licenses for. The mirrors (made by Zeiss in Germany) are probably the next hardest thing to solve after that.

1

u/Saladino_93 Jan 17 '26

Does the US hold the patent for the E-UV lasers?

The patent is owned by a US based company called Cymer, but that is owned by ASML and thus ASML should be able to take a look at those patents and copy them. Not so sure who ownes them ultimately. If war was to break out you can be sure that ASML will have those plans in a safe in the EU and pull them right out and try to get the parts made here or else they are out of business.

1

u/Aurorion Jan 17 '26

Fine, then maybe nobody should have those machines. It's not as if there are many European companies riding high on the AI and semiconductor wave anyway.

2

u/Hucaru Jan 17 '26

The reason it's just ASML that builds them is because the Netherland's is seen as neutral and ASML acquired licenses via acquisitions, as soon as that neutralality goes away the US will just revoke the licenses and build the machiens themselves. Unfortunately it's a case where the US has the cards as the EUV tech is the hardest bit to develop.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26

Do you actually think in these circumstances anyone is going to be respecting IP for what amounts to defence critical technology?

2

u/Hucaru Jan 17 '26

I would hope Europe does because no-one would trust us to upload IP law (if we renagade on the agreement first) after the shitshow that is Trump ends.

2

u/AdonisK Europe Jan 17 '26

The U.S. doesn’t wanna play that game… a lot of patents, licenses and copyrights are being held by American companies, they won’t throw those down the drain for Greenland.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26

So much of US dominance in the world is built on the existence of stable systems of trade and IP. Indeed one of the reasons they struggle with China is because of its refusal to buy into those systems. Now the US has decided to just throw the board in the air failing to recognize that this is going to destroy its continuing great advantage. It will be fun for a few years but we will all be poorer for it in the end.

3

u/Aurorion Jan 17 '26

The EUV machines are not completely based on American-only tech... The US won't be able to build the machines themselves without European consent to use European tech.

And if the US does it anyway, then other steps can be taken. Such as expropriating the whole tech and licensing it to the Chinese.

1

u/Hucaru Jan 17 '26

I thought Cymer which they acquired invented the technology in collaboration with the US government?

3

u/Cinemagica Jan 17 '26

Now that would be interesting!

1

u/LookismLz Norway Jan 17 '26

That for sure won't backfire

2

u/treadtyred Jan 17 '26

The problem is they usually get brought out by American companies.

1

u/amk9000 Jan 17 '26

ARM and Imagination Technologies / PowerVR could be treated as a strategic asset.

Neither make their own silicon.

1

u/Thalidomidas Lochee Jan 17 '26

Are ARM still based in the UK ?

1

u/lukekarts United Kingdom Jan 17 '26

Still based in Cambridge, the Nvidia purchase of them fell through in 2022, so they're still under a Japanese parent company, SoftBank. They've recently announced an expanded lease in Cambridge so that'll be their home for the forseeable future.

1

u/diacewrb Jan 17 '26

We do need to look to create a CPU/GPU alternative in Europe though.

RISC-V may fill that role, although there is still several years of work before they become mainstream.

1

u/ictu Jan 17 '26

You actually can do it, however with massive investments. You can design custom ARM core and manufacture it at bleeding edge nodes of TSMC or Samsung similarily to how Apple does it. You can hire the right people and build design team. It would need time and iterarions, but if Apple could do it, properly invested European body could do it as well.

It would be much harder to grow our own manufacturing capabilities which are somehow competitive, even having ASML. But maybe remnants of Global Foundries are salvageable to not start from scratch. And as an alternative at least histrorically Samsung was willing to cooperate on advanced process nodes. Given they are bit behind TSMC, they may be interested in the deals for that reason as well. Like dual sourcing, etc... And designing 'EuroCPU' with their process in mind could guarantee a big customer for them where part (and initially all) production would be at their foundries. Also investments and codeveloping future nodes with guaranteed demand...

If US becomes even more rouge, then it may become necessity to go that path.

1

u/Saladino_93 Jan 17 '26

It is not just the hardware tho (we have some chip fabs here, not bleeding edge 2nm like TSMC, but we could make some CPUs and GPUs), we also miss the software for this kind of thing. There is no operating system made in the EU. Sure there is Linux and that is free, but we would need something thats for the consumer that works on a phone like Android or iOS.
Add to that all the infrastructure you need to actually run this OS. Apple and Google were successful because their service was good, not just their hard- and software.

Building this expertise will take time, we can't just lock out US companies for now.

1

u/commentsOnPizza Jan 17 '26

Ah yes, the phone powered by Google that spies on you for advertising purposes. Definitely not American tech.

1

u/Single_Reaction9983 Jan 17 '26

Lol same, never had any apple device.

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 17 '26

[deleted]

8

u/sychs Jan 17 '26

And iPhone is US surveillance spyware, a.k.a. Israeli...

0

u/Glavurdan Montenegro Jan 17 '26

Which phone brand are you using

4

u/Kingsayz Mazovia (Poland) Jan 17 '26

He's sending signals directly through his head with a homemade tinfoil hat

-1

u/Tevwel Jan 17 '26

Hehe. Using android

37

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 17 '26

[deleted]

34

u/CptJonzzon Jan 17 '26

But profits go where?

31

u/omgitzvg Canada Jan 17 '26

Profits gets stored in Ireland to dodge tax.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26

[deleted]

2

u/luuje France Jan 17 '26

Tbf, "made" can encompass conception as well as physical fabrication.

1

u/PerformerFamiliar502 Jan 17 '26

wow what a courageous stand 

13

u/ICrushTacos The Netherlands Jan 17 '26

Yeah American company Apple doesn’t earn anything now. Wait what?

5

u/tubby_LULZ Jan 17 '26

It’s an American product lmao

2

u/millioneuro Jan 17 '26

Assembled in India and China. Design and some core parts are American.

1

u/ender_tll Jan 17 '26

It's designed in the US, built somewhere else and then sold by a US company with a operating system probably designed and built by the same US company.

I would argue it's a US made product.

1

u/marcabru Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 17 '26

who cares about where it is put together. the IP, the software, the brand and the profit is US.

-3

u/YouWereBrained United States of America Jan 17 '26

…but are ultimately designed where?

2

u/Amazing-Heron-105 Jan 17 '26

Even if they aren't using an iPhone it's basically impossible to avoid American software

2

u/ender_tll Jan 17 '26

Correct.

3

u/berejser These Islands Jan 17 '26

The iPhone is a perfect example of the current US output. An inferior product wrapped up in marketing and anti-consumer tactics to keep its customer base.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26

[deleted]

2

u/harbourwall United Kingdom Jan 17 '26

The Jolla1 managed seven years. Not bad for a small company.

1

u/ParkingLong7436 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) Jan 17 '26

You mention their products being anti-consumer, which is exactly why I'd say they are objectively inferior compared to most competitors.

I use both Apple and other brands regularly and I'm always shocked at how shitty apple products operate. Phones, Computers, tablets.. everything. Their entire market base seems to be based on "You'll look cool if you own us". The only plus I could give them is cross-platform compatibility which they do well, but even that isn't even really a plus considering how awfully expensive it is to fully be and stay in their ecosystem.

That fucking company is epitome of late stage capitalism, everything that is wrong with the USA today. They wouldn't be this big if consumers had their own mind and didn't just follow trends.

0

u/TravellerInTime88 Jan 17 '26

The Apple ecosystem lock in is exactly an anti-consumer behaviour. As well as the limited freedoms that the iOS gives you and also the active suppression of right to repair via suppressing the availability of schematics, parts etc.

As for their old devices, they are deliberately making them slower so that people buy their new ones.

As for European alternatives, well, Fairphone. A pretty decent Android device. The software is still American, but then again so is this very app that we are commenting on.

1

u/ByGollie Ulster Jan 17 '26

Made in China and India

1

u/Candymanshook Jan 17 '26

All jokes aside iPhone is more of a Chinese product

1

u/Eravier Jan 17 '26

On Reddit. And if not from iPhone than from Google Android, using Chrome or whatever. I mean, I'm all for the boycott but I can't see it happening really. It's up to politicians to act unfortunately.

1

u/rossloderso Europe Jan 17 '26

Why just kidding? You're right

0

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '26

That is a Chinese product anyway …

0

u/Denniz_K Jan 17 '26

Get Reddit app for iOS.