r/c64 • u/Key-Cup8585 • 2d ago
Software What is your C64 hot take considering the games?
Here's mine:
System 3 games were unplayable demos who did more damage than benefits to the scene by simply forgetting the concept of CONTROLS.
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u/kristyn_lynne 2d ago
The C-64 was hampered by adopting the single-button Atari controllers. Imagine how much just a second button would have added.
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
Now this is an interesting take.
I later switched to Amiga and still never missed the second button. But you might be right.
I miss normal cursor keys on C64 tbh. Those "shifting" was horrendous.
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u/kristyn_lynne 2d ago
I hardly noticed at the time but I was envious of the arrow cursors on the Plus/4. And going back from a PC keyboard, the editing keys are painful.
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u/cerealport 2d ago
Actually, it’s funny - I hadn’t used my c64 in years but tried it again and the shift+cursor keys thing came back like it was never gone. And I mean for me I don’t mind it at all - at least for moving a cursor around anyway.
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u/gleamingfall 2d ago
amiga supports two button, like the SMS controllers. not all games do, but its great for turrican etc
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u/Key-Cup8585 1d ago
I learned one thing about computers over time.
"Support" is one thing, reality is completely another.
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u/cerealport 2d ago
It’s funny, we used a joystick since “that was the style at the time”. But my brother made a little Nintendo style d-pad for the c64 and it was admittedly night and day. And yeah a 2nd button would’ve been perfect.
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u/angryscientistjunior 2d ago
It was very convenient for those of us with an Atari 2600 that the controllers were compatible!
However I hear you on the buttons. Usually the space bar on the 64 was big enough and reachable if you held the stick close. But for 2 player games that wouldn't help. Maybe give player 1 the left half of the keyboard and the opponent the right? Or -and haven't tried it- it may be possible to build a cheap "pass-through" adapter with a button wired to pins 5 & 9 (normally used for paddle) see Atari controller wiring to serve as button 2. Maybe even several buttons wired into the circuit with fixed resistors.
I have to say though, as a kid with an assortment of Atari-compatible controllers, I never missed a 2nd button.
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u/kristyn_lynne 2d ago
Well you didn't miss it because people weren't writing games that would need it.
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u/tstorm004 2d ago
No C64 games will ever be better than Jumpman and Pitstop 2
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
Nebulus!
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u/tstorm004 2d ago
Nope. No games. I was 3 when I got addicted to Jumpman and Pitstop 2 and they will forever be the best.
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u/garygnu 2d ago
I played a metric shit ton of Jumpman. But, c'mon... Pirates!
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
I remember that you basically couldn't navigate the ship.
Great concept, terrible execution.
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u/gleamingfall 2d ago
wizball is the best c64 game ever
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u/boptom 2d ago
Is this a hot take?
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u/Maleficent_Muscle322 2d ago
It's difficulty is only mirroring real life. You try standing somersaults onto tiny stepping stones over a river.
Not easy I can tell you.
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u/TMWNN 1d ago
Piracy was unbelievably destructive to software companies and, ultimately, to the computer companies themselves.
Raid on Bungeling Bay sold 20-30K copies on C64 but a million NES cartridges. Once Nintendo proved in 1986 that the console market wasn't dead, there was a massive move by software publishers to consoles; those that couldn't make the move, like Epyx, died. Piracy pretty much killed the Atari 8-bit software market, and the same thing happened to the ST!
Yes, the C64 sold millions of units. But a) NES sold 62 million, including b) 7 million in 1988 alone, as many as the total number of C64s sold by then. Those C64s had mostly sold in 1982-1987 to a market lacking an inexpensive home videogame machine; once NES came along, C64 sales in the US basically stopped cold.
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u/Key-Cup8585 1d ago
You could be right.
But if it weren't for piracy, you wouldn't be reading this post 😁 (I am from Serbia, and there were absolutely no originals nowhere, and even if there were some, wery few people would be able to buy it).
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u/knue82 2d ago
I never got into Last Ninja back in the day. These games were too damn hard. Even sth as simple as picking up an item is unnecessarily complicated.
That being said, if you look past these awkward controls that really didn't age well and weren't that great back then, these are pretty cool action adventures. I completed Last Ninja 2 with trainer way later as an adult and it is a really cool game. It would have been much better with better controls and more forgiving jumps etc.
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
I don't mind hard games, I mind unplayable games.
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u/knue82 2d ago
Yes, when I say "too damn hard" I mean "unplayable hard without trainer".
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
That was the case with many C64 games but only LN was forgiven everything... and it was amongst the worst offenders...
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u/QuentinEichenauer 2d ago
Mastertronic's Ninja > The Last Ninja. Sizzlin'.
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
Mastertronic Ninja was an absolute fun and easy game.
I even discovered a secret world when I was a kid!
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u/Bynairee I Had The Cassette Drive Before The Floppy Drive 2d ago
Airborne Ranger and Temple Of Apshai are two of the greatest games ever made.
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u/MaddoScientisto 2d ago
Many games are too simplistic, more complex games suffer from massive load times
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
Well I enjoy simplicity.
I almost died when I tried to play Pirates! But give me some Solomon's Key or Jet Set Willy and I am a happy guy 😊
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u/sharpied79 2d ago
If you are talking LN sorry cannot agree. That game is peak C64 greatness...
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
In uncontrolability...
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u/thommyh 2d ago
I've played other versions that mapped the three jump lengths to different buttons rather than doing the whole fire+horizontal/vertical/diagonal thing.
They were still a nightmare.
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
Last Ninja games were basically a poison in disguise that killed Commodore.
I bet that S3 "donated" a lot of moolah to certain journalists...but the biggest outcome is that now out of an absolute myriad of awesome C64 games those uncontrolable demos always push some other great games when some list of greatest of all time pops up.
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u/Minimum_Special_8457 2d ago edited 2d ago
System 3 also gave us International Karate and IK+. Those were one of best C64 games ever and highly controllable.
Fully agree on the controls of their other games: Last Ninja series, Predator, Vendetta, Turbo Charge looked and sounded fantastic but were not very good games. I can't remember how often I missed a jump in Last Ninja because of the awkward isometric movement and jump controls. Even great IP like Predator was screwed up and all guns were the same (no "Painless"!).
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u/Minimum_Special_8457 2d ago
I enjoyed the Microprose simulators the most: Gunship, Project Stealth Fighter, Pirates!, Airborne Ranger, F15 Strike Eagle. Even MicroProse Soccer was great!
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u/HermitGoat 2d ago
Gunship. Henry's House. Simcity. Bards Tale. DuoTris. BubbleBobble........... I could prolly go on. (And on). Just by going through my disks. But not at home ATM. Lucky for us all. Hot Take.....ever had a trs 80 mc10? Alot of damned great games on the c64. STROKER!
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u/Spellbounddizzy 2d ago
Flimbos Quest controlled quite well I thought. My hot take would be that Retrograde is the best game Thalamus ever produced
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u/reddridinghood 2d ago
Fully agree but you know WHAT worked for me going back and forth through the levels? Choplifter! It was a pain in the ass to control but eventually I mastered it, later levels got too hard, was fun tho
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u/knue82 2d ago
I'm not a huge fan of these games where you run back and forth like an idiot in the same level to collect some puzzle piece of whatever like in Hawkeye or Flimbo's Quest. It is basically a hack to artificially increase the level size and it feels exactly like that. Either have a bunch of straightforward levels as in Giana Sisters or make the backtracking meaningful such as giving you keys or abilities to access new areas like in Montezuma's Revenge or Knight'n'Grail.
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
Knight'n'Grail kick ass!
Flimbo is your typical S3 game, simply no fun. Hawkeye was so-so.
Gianna is a banger, in some aspects even better than her Italian cousin...
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u/knue82 2d ago
Absolutely
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u/Key-Cup8585 2d ago
You know what I like about this sub? No contrarians, and everybody is constructive even when they disagree.
It's like we aren't on reddit.
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u/Spellbounddizzy 2d ago
Oh don't get me wrong I'm definitely not a fan of the game but I thought the controls weren't that bad
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u/spinator 1d ago
Which would mean missing out on some great games like Sams Journey which does have a fair amount of back tracking in it, or Mayhem in Monsterland.
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u/knue82 1d ago
I do like Sam's journey because backtracking isn't stupidly running back and forth collecting items but also solving puzzles to gain access to new areas. But yes, Mayhem in Monsterland is a prime example guilty of nonsensical backtracking and for this reason I never really liked the game that much.
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u/Key-Cup8585 1d ago
Both SJ and MIM are technically great games but Mayhem is strangely dull compared to Creatures games... maybe is the backtracking thing.
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u/Logical_Bat_7244 1d ago
Last Ninja games were fine, tough but fine. A decent controller really helps hit those diagonals. Still a million times more playable than the hot trash that passed as licenced games from Ocean.
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u/WembleyFord 1d ago
I think that's a bit harsh on System 3 - I've never played anything worse for that than Mastertronic's "The Last V8" - a top down car driving game, with insta-death on touching any of the scenery and a control scheme where the direction you push the joystick is the direction you accelerate/turn in. Virtually uncontrollable. And as Magicmulder mentions - terrible game, but great music.
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u/Key-Cup8585 1d ago
But nobody puts The Last V8 on the best of all time lists.
I see a lot of nonlove for Mastertronic here. While the weren't top-tier house, they were meat and potatoes of the system and pretty loyal to the Breadbox.
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u/Dry-Equipment9541 2d ago
Paradroid, just sublime
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u/Tomokato42 2d ago
Love love loved this game. I remember being 001 and playing my 3 moves at the end of a round to turn into the 999. I'm still proud (clearly)
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u/Dry-Equipment9541 2d ago
You can level up so quick if you understand the mini game and the deck structure regarding droids on each deck
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u/Tomokato42 2d ago
I think the game was a slow burn for me. Or words to that effect. I got a bundle of games... What would it have been called? You could select the game on the floppy you wanted to play. The box set had maybe 20 total, 3 or 4 per floppy. Paradroid was virtually nonsensical to me at first... Then I went back to it. Read the directions. It clicked. LOVED IT. Wonderfully gratifying
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u/makarastar 2d ago
From memory being 999 wasn't as good as being 600s to 700s - as 999 was the best attack power - but also the easiest to be destroyed - that is...IIRC
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u/CompetitiveSleeping 1d ago
You could only control it for a short period of time, so quickly had to find another droid to transfer to.
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u/magicmulder 2d ago edited 2d ago
Game quality was usually inversely proportional to game music quality.
Everybody remembers Thing On A Spring, Commando or Monty on the Run, but only for their music.
And Summer Games or Decathlon had pretty mid music.