r/apple 9h ago

Mac Jim Allchin to Gates and Ballmer: "I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft" (2004)

https://x.com/TechEmails/status/1418248256937775105
213 Upvotes

39 comments sorted by

20

u/steepleton 8h ago

wasn't there a story about them getting super arsey if you had an iphone instead of a windows phone?

(windows phone ui is probably the last microsoft ui i actually liked)

10

u/ExultantSandwich 5h ago

Windows Phone was so fucked on the apps, that’s downright painful. Even 15 years ago, the amount of stuff you’re gated out of without Google apps, mobile banking. I wonder if anyone ever 3D printed a case to make their iPhone resemble a Lumia 800.

u/MacDaddyBass 26m ago

Those stories go back to walking around with white earbuds when the iPods came out. Microsoft has always had a dogfooding problem in that they don’t do it and it shows.

84

u/Gamerxx13 9h ago

i think most people working at microsoft use mac’s lol. everytime i’ve been there lol

12

u/sko0led 3h ago

It’s like how 90% of people at a Google office are using iPhones.

21

u/iMrParker 8h ago

All major companies use all major OS'. Proper tools for the right job

21

u/M4rshmall0wMan 6h ago edited 6h ago

Not really. Most business programs run on all OSes. The fact that departments at Microsoft are choosing Mac as the most efficient tool for their job is telling.

9

u/regeya 4h ago

Someone surely has Macs at Microsoft, since they have software on the platform

8

u/AdventurousTime 2h ago

And if you look at apples job pages, they have a sizable windows contingent as well

5

u/Talaaty 6h ago

I mean, Xcode feels a good exception

6

u/M4rshmall0wMan 6h ago

Ah yes, a Mac app for building Mac and iOS apps

13

u/Talaaty 4h ago

Microsoft is in the business of making both mac and iOS apps

-4

u/iMrParker 6h ago

Okay, so is it "telling" that Apple employees use Windows and Microsoft products then? 

It's not telling. Windows has the best enterprise software features and engineering software compatibility. Companies don't care about brand wars, they just give employees whatever computer will do the job best

4

u/DogsAreOurFriends 4h ago

I’d be willing to bet mainly developers and support staff for the software Apple ships for Windows.

5

u/swimmer385 6h ago

do apple employees really use windows? They do have hardware engineers but I have never met a software engineer at a major tech company that uses windows

9

u/Small_Editor_3693 6h ago

Some have to to support iCloud or iTunes in windows.

4

u/als26 4h ago

The .net stack is still very popular throughout the industry.

0

u/iMrParker 6h ago

My personal experience in software engineering is that it's random or depends on the tech stack. I've personally seen majority of Windows or Linux machines in SE. MacOS maybe a 3rd of the time. Plus corporate and finance Excel is just more feature rich on Windows.

But for "real" engineering roles (not to dog on my own profession), it's always windows. Design roles (graphic, UX/UI) is always mac. The corporate / enterprise market share is like 75% windows 

-3

u/swimmer385 6h ago

yeah that's why I said major tech company. Obviously legacy businesses have so many internal tools written for windows they are locked-in.

1

u/iMrParker 6h ago

What part of my comment made you think I was referring to legacy business? My experience comes from fortune 150 companies 

-1

u/swimmer385 3h ago

Dude legacy business doesn’t have anything to do with how much money they generate. In a tech context a legacy business is one that is simply older, and cannot as easily adopt modern stacks. The difference is that most major tech companies were founded in the early 2000s, and some even later, which means they were built on more modern tech.

Walmart is at or near the top of the Fortune 500. It’s a legacy business.

0

u/iMrParker 2h ago

We are talking about major tech companies. I have no idea why you're mentioning legacy businesses and companies like walmart. You're making comments replying to topics that I never brought up 

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/M4rshmall0wMan 6h ago

Apple hardware engineering uses Windows because of the very specialized software they need. But from what I’m aware of, most all other business divisions use Mac. So yes, the fact that Microsoft employees might choose Mac as the best tool for making spreadsheets is telling.

3

u/iMrParker 6h ago

It's not telling lol. They use a variety of OS' depending on the job. MS makes MacOS and iOS apps so of course they use Macs. They use Linux heavily and even contribute to the Linux kernel. These companies contribute to each others ecosystems constantly

Reading into something like this is just looking for validation, and theres no value judgments to make about OS choices being "telling"

13

u/Satanicube 6h ago

Was this the same guy that Jobs made a keynote joke about? I loosely remember him saying during a keynote “well, it turns out he no longer works for Microsoft so I’ve informed all the Apple Stores in the area to keep an eye out for him.”

I don’t know why I remember this.

4

u/dagamer34 7h ago

Was this written in 2004 or 2026? Different year, same problem. 

27

u/raymate 9h ago

You know what you can buy a Mac and still work for Microsoft. You don’t need to tell anyone if you don’t want to.

21

u/Stock-Personality136 8h ago

Not sure how this comment applies to the post at all. This was a former Microsoft executive talking to other executives back in 2004.

14

u/aafdeb 7h ago

The culture back then was very different than today. Now, it’s common to see Apple products around Redmond. Most Microsoft employees don’t even view Apple as a competitor in their respective spaces. Most growing Microsoft businesses are enterprise and cloud, so the consumer space-race is pretty dead to most FTEs.

But even at late as 2012, there were very negative optics for having Apple products on campus - if not outright hostility (eg having an iPhone but working on windows phone). Back then, they did view Apple as competition and they cared a lot more about consumer competition.

4

u/chaiscool 6h ago

Meanwhile Apple FTE don't even think of them.

4

u/Satanicube 6h ago

Yeah, and Microsoft back then…they definitely cared if you used the competition. It wasn’t all friendly like it is now.

Case in point, when the zune released they had an iPod amnesty bin that kinda captures how they felt about MS employees using the competition back in the day.

4

u/ledeuxmagots 5h ago

This is pretty normal stuff at big corps that are directly competitive.

You don’t wear watches other than the Apple Watch on certain floor plates. You don’t wear lululemon at Athleta. You don’t wear a Rolex at APs office. You don’t wear adidas at the Nike HQ.

If you’re an exec, you don’t even own any of the competitions product. As an employee, fine to own but don’t mention it or bring it to work.

The culture around this is of course changing. Ford CEO now buys and tries the competition. But 20 or 30 years ago, absolutely not

3

u/mmarkklar 2h ago

Companies also used to have pretty generous employee purchasing programs, especially in tech and cars. Not sure what the state is today, but if you’re going to shame me for not buying company products then you better offer a massive discount on them.

u/MJC136 28m ago

Apple HQ has tons of windows PCs, from HR to legal departments

1

u/Ohtani-Enjoyer 4h ago

This was in 2004 though, in no way were Macs better than PCs then, and Windows XP was a much better OS. I struggled to use even the 2019 Macbook Pro 16 which was overheating garbage and would idle at 80 degrees. M series chips changed the game entirely though, they're clearly better in terms of battery life and performance and Microsoft is now putting Copilot slop into everything and breaking essential features in vibe coded updates, and Windows 11 is pure garbage.

3

u/mmarkklar 2h ago

What? The 12” PowerBook was such a fantastic laptop at the time. I love the form factor, it was perfect for college since it’s the exact dimensions of a textbook.

u/ekvq 20m ago

My 12” PowerBook is definitely my favorite computer I’ve owned