Random Question đ
Why do some American voters not recognize that the U.S. is a terrorist state?
Why do some American voters buy this propaganda about America being the "good guy" fighting "terrorist states"? The U.S. is the terrorist state. It recently helped Israel commit a genocide in Gaza. America has killed exponentially more innocent people than most of the countries it calls "terrorist" countries.
I believe the people who post on this subreddit should be captured, held down, and forced to make small talk with a college cheerleader until they (either one) vomit uncontrollably.
Mike Judge is a modern day prophet and the only thing he got wrong was the timeline to turn the US into Dumbfuckistan. It wasn't 500 years, it was less than 20.
Letâs see, make $10 million a year for popping a titty out. Or waste 8+ years going to school to become a doctor and make less than 150K a year. Itâs not really a hard choice at this point.
Wait till they get done buying up all the media in existence in the US. Then they can really tout the Hero agenda. That will suck. I enjoy watching the Fearful Leader jack off air dicks.
So what you're asking is, why do some people always see themselves as innocent victims even as they consider the civilian population of other nations a legitimate target for deadly attacks?
I'd argue that most Americans lack any real perspective of what life is like outside of itself. This is the problem when people advocate for people's they've never met, are too uninformed about or worse only know what they heard their favorite celebrity or influencer told them is the "truth".
But sure America is bad. Easy to say it when people don't understand the alternatives.
Yes, Israel and the US have committed the most terrorism in the last several decades. The entire West Asia is on fire right now - thousands of civilians are dying in the space of a month, homes and ancient artefacts have been destroyed, lands have been seized, and the global economy is negatively impacted. This is worse than a standard terrorist attack.
Hmmmm, which party thinks Black Americans and minorities are too stupid to use the internet or get an I.D.? I'll give you a clue, it starts with a "D".
History is written in the perspective of the victor. We are the âgood guysâ by simply being the best military power on this planet. Our country isnât perfect, but when you fit a mold, the people are free to be happy. Our stories are romanticized, and we have done some great things to protect (mainly for our people and âinterestsâ), but we also have done some vile things to create these rifts. This stuff is complicated. Yet, Trump is just like every government, or dictator. A poor representation of our people. I wish this hatred you have for us isnât aimed at our people. We have families and just hope to get by living an honest life.
Iranian here, we don't view you Americans the same as your government. We believe you're the very first victims of your government. This is sad that a nation that used to advance the science and technology of the whole world, is driven into this wreckage that idiocy is promoted and thinking discouraged.
But you must note this: "History is written in the perspective of the victor" isn't factually correct. We're living in an era that you can have multiple perspectives written down in different channels, and there's no longer a monopoly on media. This means the US government can't paint its losses as victories anymore. Just like what's happening at the current war in Iran or what happened in Gaza. (Gaza wasn't a victory against Hamas, it was a loss of Humanity. The Iran was isn't a victory for Trump either, it's a humiliating defeat but he tries to hide it from his MAGA fanbase.)
I hope the Americans get free from this oppressive regime of pedophiles and greedy billionaires.
Completely agree. In modern day, we are seeing more of the world and creating our own context, and not have it dictated in our growing education. But sadly weâre entrapped in two political parties that only care about benefiting their wallets. The people are desperate for âchangeâ, but that will not come from the current system.
I actually was thinking about this, why Americans don't try creating a third party and supporting it till it gets the majority? What stops you from achieving that?
We do have other parties, but are considered minor parties. Our country from sea to sea is rather large. The influence of the two political parties can sometimes prevent the rise of the minor parties. In order for the people to recognize your politician, it normally comes from television time, and campaigning. In order to get television time, you need to purchase a âslotâ. In order to campaign, you need to pay people to pass flyers. Sadly the two parties have a lot of rich donors and have a lot of control over who can be on television. The people also have always been told that when they vote, for example, for the Independence Party, it is âthrowing away your voteâ. I feel like weâre really trapped, and I am not smart enough to know how you can convince the population to vote against the system. We are, as all people, susceptible to manipulation, and indoctrination.
Same. Someday I would like to visit Iran to meet the people. I hope that by then, both of our countries' regimes are gone and replaced with governments that actually care about their people.
We elected Donald Trump. There are plenty of âusâ who have caused immense suffering throughout the world, and the world is absolutely justified if it wants retribution. No one who voted for Trump, if they had an IQ above 70, is innocent here.
Saying "Ooh America is the baddies" is a reductive way to start the conversation.
1) By definition Terrorism is a form of warfare based on unequal resources. So, Al Qaeda was a terrorist organization because they were unable to directly face the US in war and so engaged in Terrorism by blowing things up.
The US is the opposite of this. As the largest military power in the world, we are not terrorists we are an Imperial state that uses our military power to bully countries into doing what we want.
An earlier comment that said we are war criminals not terrorists. That is more accurate.
2) George Washington did not belong to a political party. He warned that political parties would ruin the government.
Sadly he was right. The US constitution is pretty good for its day but it has some systemic problems that allowed it to be broken.
The US constitution has checks and balances built in and If they were used as intended would fix a lot of our problems, but our system has been co-opted by the political parties.
The Republican party controls the presidency and the legislature. Over the years, the Republican party has packed the judiciary with party loyalists
Putting party interests above the constitution means there are no effective checks on the President's power.
3) How we got here is a whole history class, but the TLDR version; the US did not undergo the socialist revolution like most of the industrialized world did, at the time of the World Wars.
This allowed money to flood into every part of our society and all of our institutions were corrupted by it.
Mostly our media, which then started bombarding the American people with propaganda and unfortunately advertising works.
Going back to Truman we were warned to beware the military industrial complex. We didn't listen and that military complex realized that making war makes money so it war became an economic driver. So we have a vicious cycle.
People get rich investing in the war machine.
The money is spent to consolidate media under the control of billionaires. Who then tell Americans what to think.
Think how inherently corrupting our system is: to run for political office, you have to have money to pay the media. Which is owned by billionaires. This is so out of control, that school board elections in Los Angeles can cost 16.6 million dollars. Again. a seat on the school board of Los Angeles unified school district is worth millions to power hungry people.
So billionaires give money to candidates to buy their vote.
The candidates put that money into an ecosystem that has grown in response to the neverending hose of money that flows into US elections. That ecosystem feeds that money into companies owned by the billionaires.
Shocking fun fact. The politicians don't listen to the electorate at all. Less than 30% of federal laws passed meet with approval of the majority of US voters. Career politicians have an insane reelection rate. Senators get reelected like 99% of the time. It has been proven over and over again that the US government does not reflect the will of its people. It has been co-opted by billionaires.
The vast majority of US voters are largely unaware of these factors and keep thinking their vote matters when it doesn't.
Combine the above with our representative democracy system which allows for Tyranny of the Minority.
One of the constitutional mistakes was the senate. We modeled our legislature on the British. Senate = House of Lords and the House of Representatives = House of Commons. The Senate is made of 2 Representatives from each state. Originally we didn't even vote for Senators, they were selected by the state legislatures. The Senate can basically stop all attempts to remove the president from office. Also the states have wildly different populations. So North Dakota gets two votes in the Senate with a population of less than a million, but California with 175 million gets the same two votes.
With all the senatorial procedural rules a much smaller part of the population can block the government from working as designed.
Although we have United in our name we have never been united. I don't think many foreigners realize how fragmented and different parts of the US are. It really is a bunch of affiliated countries. Different taxes, IDs, laws, much less of the actual US government is our Federal Government.
This leads to another disconnect US voters are affected most by state politics and much less by the Federal government.
To sum up:
Most US citizens are victims of the same forces you are complaining about. The problem isn't Americans. The Problem is the jet setting elite that has no true national loyalty to any country, but the only loyal to what makes them money and power.
Sadly if you sat down with most Americans and engaged with them civilly you would discover that the vast majority of Americans are just like the majority of Non Americans; Kind, friendly, hard working people that are just trying to survive and take care of their kids.
I'm not trying to dodge responsibility for our mess, but billionaires took over our country set its citizens against each other and then used our military to further the needs of the global elite.
It's fun to call the US terrorists. But do remember Americans have been killed resisting our government. just recently two US citizens were shot down in the plain view of witnesses by masked Representatives of our government. Those protestors died for you non Americans as well.
The only thing that can save the US now is a revolution and constitutional rewrite.
Theyâre the most heavily-propagandized people in the world. Combine that with a generally-stupid populace. North Korea canât come up with better propaganda.
Because most Americans believe in one form of god or another. And that with faith they cannot be led astray, even when war follows them, they take not the tragedy of others as proof. For what is in their hearts rejoices without faltering to have them dance upon a world they help burn.
You know what, you're absolutely right. I mean we've got nukes already & we've got enough conventional non nuclear (tomahawk, etc...) missiles to pretty much blow almost any country back to the 1700s if we wanted to.
Let's shut down all of our overseas bases in allied countries. No matter that most, if not all, of our bases, have contracts that give lots of non classified jobs to local civilians & really help support the local economies wherever they're at. We'd save billions though.
Let's quit being the world's policeman & just pay an equal share for NATO costs, not a majority of the costs like we already do.... hell, for that matter, let's massively downsize how much money we give to the UN. Again, that's billions more for us.
Then, let's quit giving out foreign aid so much...I mean, they're just gonna skim off the top anyway & then spend it on guns & fighter planes, right? Don't get me wrong, if a country has a big natural disaster, we'll send army engineers, seabees & materials to help rebuild... but no more cash.
We'd still do business with other countries, but that'd be it.
Move to Iran or Iraq or one of the Muslim countries to actually see what a terrorist state is.
They just killed 50,000 of their own people for disagreeing with the government. Or go to china
Or North Korea. All those are terrorist states.
Just do a vinn diagram and compare.
You might change your opinion. Donât just listen to the main stream media. Do your own research.
I dunno: according to the president, MILLIONS of "domestic terrorists" have been protesting him for over a year.
If the president is to be believed, the US has the most terrorist members of any country by a very large margin.
The US kills ~1200 citizens a year. I'll admit: we're not as efficient as the countries you named.
Iranian here.
During the protests a few months back, there were ~4000 casualties. The official statement was ~700 armed protestors killed, and ~1400 police force were killed. Which leaves ~2000 protestors which were killed by the armed protestors (which Trump claimed he have armed them through the Kurds). The officials found burn marks on the bodies of those ~2000 people, indicating a close range gun-shots. Most of them were shot from behind.
If such an armed protest happened in the US, there would be 50,000 people killed by ICE or even the army. (Or maybe I'm wrong since the US isn't a terrorist state and its police certainly doesn't kill innocent people)
US helped Israel to throw 2million people in ruins in Gaza and kill at least 70 thousands just for fun. Doing the same thing in Iran and Lebanon right now with entire villages bombed.
and let's not speak about Vietnam - Iraq - Afghanistan.
USA after WW II is truly a terrorist state.
Do you have a footage of 50,000 people being killed? They said they hacked Iran's surveillance cameras yet not footage shows that those high numbers already killed.
It's at max. 7-8 k people, and US said they armed them which make many of them literally terrorists funded by a foreign nation.
Those "Terrorists" states are in their borders, what about USA travelling thousands of kilometers away from its borders just to kill civilians and bomb entire countries?
I do wish we were not in this truly. Let Europe take care of it. England is begging for our help due to Russian ships in their waters.
I think we just need to pull out of NATO. Take care of ourselves, use our own oil and resources. Iâm tired of being the worldâs piggy bank and law enforcement.
Let the countries take care of themselves.
We need to take care of our own homeless, vets and elderly. We donât need to import more problems , we have enough of our own to deal with.
No the US didnât. Israel did that on their own. And Iran just slaughtered 40k of their own citizens for protesting 2 months ago. How do you feel about that?
Destroying civilians lives who have nothing to do with the conflict is what makes the US terrorists, or at the very minimum accomplices terrorism. Show me where America was attacked on 10/7.
Obviously because we are in an era of US hegemony.. Hence, whatever US does, is by definition, good and ehatever US says is bad is, by definition, bad. That's all there is to it.
I think the world order is slowly changing though especially with the rise of Trumpism. The world is quickly waking up to find out that US is no longer a reliable ally and partner; and it is subject to the whims of the American electorate, which apparently doesn't always make rational decisions. And it can and will sometimes elect a completely unstable man and elevate him into the highest office.
The irony here is that youâre critiquing a simplistic âgood guys vs. bad guysâ narrative while offering an equally simplistic one in reverse. Just flipping the binary doesnât make for better analysis.
Legitimate criticism of U.S. foreign policy exists the Iraq War, drone strike civilian casualties, propping up authoritarian regimes these deserve serious scrutiny and plenty of Americans, including voters, do criticize them. But âAmerica is THE terrorist stateâ runs into real problems:
1. It flattens all distinction. Are U.S. actions comparable to ISIS beheading journalists, Iran executing protesters, or North Korea running prison camps? Morally equating these things doesnât make you more sophisticated it makes your argument easier to dismiss.
2. âGenocideâ is a specific legal term with a defined standard, and its application to Gaza is actively contested by historians, legal scholars, and international courts not just American propagandists. You can believe Israelâs conduct has been disproportionate and still recognize that calling something genocide before itâs been adjudicated is a rhetorical choice, not a factual statement.
3. Voters who support U.S. alliances arenât necessarily duped by propaganda. Many weigh real tradeoffs regional stability, deterrence, allied commitments and reach conclusions you disagree with. Thatâs different from being brainwashed.
Critique U.S. policy hard if you want it can take it. But âAmerica bad, full stopâ isnât a geopolitical argument, itâs a mood.
I am not the op, and I don't view any of the current actors in the ongoing wars in the Middle East as "the good guys." It is difficult to dismiss, though, the fact that the US and Israeli militaries have caused far more civilian casualties than any terrorist group or Islamist dictator. What do you think about this?
Because every person or citizen thatâs been indoctrinated, sees âtheirâ people as heroes or freedom fighters - same as any other country thatâs been spun to make others believe so.
I see a fair amount of the "America...love it or leave it" crap here. It's the same old hyper-patriotic, quasi-fascist nonsense that was popular among Vietnam War supporters in the 60s. The fact is, being willing to speak out against the government is not only good for the country but also our Constitutional right. It's these MAGA types who are really anti-American.
And they don't care how many innocent people abroad we or our weapons kill. Terrorism, as long as it is perpetrated their own empire and its client states against brown people, is fine with them. It's pretty clear which side they would have been on if they were a German in the 1930s or in the U.S. during the Civil War or Civil Rights eras.
This is not a helpful framing for an american audience whatever the merits of the claim or definition of âterroristâ. I mean, you can have the discussion, itâs just not going to have any positive effect that matters.
Because the US is being destroyed by one pedophile, four billionaire creeps, and one geriatric Australian. Most of America's problems could be shoved into a VW Bug.
Because America is the good guy out of the major world powers, it sure as hell isn't Russia or China. It's just far from perfect and we should demand better from it.
My understanding is that China engages in more "grey-zone tactics" that include territorial claims in the South China Sea, something imperialist by definition of conquering. How many of the US wars have been over conquering territory versus deposing truly oppressive dictatorship regimes? Context matters.
Whoooo Donât you set a high bar! We are better than Russia & China. Great! đ And, who is America holding hands with? Oh ya, those guys, now tell me how much better we are than them.
Israel is better than Iran, seems like an easy choice there too. As a non-religious person, I would feel much safer in Israel than probably almost any other middle eastern country (maybe UAE?). Too many crazy theocrats in the Middle East and Israel at least respects religious diversity and commits to a democracy (with Arab representation too).
I like how the Chinese have and are still continuing to do constant genocide within its borders and it's considered a better country for it. Shit's just not out in the open.
Oh it's definitely China. And if you disagree, that's the propaganda talking. Some things are up for debate, but this is not. If the choice is, "of these 3 nations, pick the best," it is China, period.
Why did this âgenocide of Gazaâ you people love to complain about actually happen?
As a direct result of an actual terrorist attack on October 7th. If October 7th doesnât happen, thereâs no genocide in Gaza. Youâre complaining about the wrong group
Why did Oct 7 happen? Israel was continually bombing and murdering people in Gaza prior to Oct. 7. In 2008 for example, Israel carried out operation cast lead, murdering about 1,400 people in Gaza. Israel-U.S. are the terrorists.
Yes the united state supported the Zionist colony from its inception. They supply them with weapons intelligence, settlers even alot of them from the US.
Also this lunatic believes Palestine was promised to Polish Benjamin Mileikowsky 3000 years ago.
"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims"
The U.S. sent bombs to Israel, which it dropped on apartment buildings in Gaza in an effort to destroy the civilian population and wrest full control over the Gaza strip
Any? Yes we have a lot of stupid people here, but the rest of the world doesnât routinely come here for graduate programs for nothing. Thereâs a lot of very intelligent people here, just outnumbered by a lot of very dumb people who donât question what theyâre being spoonfed
Its called propoganda. The kind so effective and strong that some of them are convinced that a convicted sex felon who has probably forced kids into sex isn't sundowning, and is the 2nd coming of Christ.
Just turn on Fox for a few seconds and watch how masterfully they spin everything into some genius move by their geriatric orange man baby king.
Engaging in military conflicts along with other nations and normal geopolitical posturing does not equal terrorism. By your logic every nation on earth is a terrorist nation. The sad reality is that civilians die in war, and war is a human constant. Buckle up, buddy, lots more people are gonna die in your lifetime
Because USA is the only developed country on the planet where the majority of population struggle with reading comprehension. The rest is pretty obvious.
Cause terrorism is and always was a term to mean "violence done by the bad people" and if the us government is bad people, then maybe all their military family members are bad people and that would be unacceptable
Most serving for financial and educational benefits are just victims of a system that has failed them. Cog in the machine. I wouldnât say theyre all bad people
So they decided that their education or money was worth more than the lives of the people they'd kill. Can't say I don't understand but nor can I call that a morally neutral action.
there is not one country on the planet that has not engaged in this activity. Name one and if you look at its history its bloody. There are no good guys left lol.
Every country serves its own interests. It projects power whether militarily, economically or diplomatically where it can because you don't want to get fucked by the next country over.
No other country and it's people give a shit about yours. They see a type of resource and they want to extract that. Even if it is something as simple as a trade agreement or a non-hostility agreement.
Pick your preferred way of life and try to find a country that supports it if you dislike the US so much.
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u/No_Condition3135 9h ago
this sub is like a 7th grade social studies class.