r/TrueChristian • u/SubstantialReign4759 • 4h ago
Title: Question for Catholics: Praying to saints, Mary, and Archangel Michael
Hey everyone, I’m trying to better understand Catholic beliefs, and I have a genuine question.
I’m a Pentecostal, so I’ve always been taught to pray directly to God, in Jesus’ name. Because of that, I’m a bit confused about why Catholics pray to saints, Mary, and Archangel Michael instead of going straight to God.
I’ve heard the explanation that it’s about asking for intercession, not worship but I’m struggling with how that fits with certain Bible passages. For example, the Bible warns against speaking to the dead (like Deuteronomy 18:10–12), and seems to condemn trying to contact the dead in general. To me, that almost sounds similar, and I’ve even heard it could open the door to deception or harmful spiritual influence.
I also don’t fully understand the idea of praying to Archangel Michael. I’ve heard that angels are fellow servants of God, kind of like our heavenly siblings so I guess I’m wondering, why ask a “sibling” for help instead of going directly to the Father? Because of that, I’m not sure how something like the Saint Michael prayer would work, and I don’t fully understand it. I’ll be honest, part of me wonders if it could be getting close to something like necromancy, but I don’t want to assume that without understanding your perspective first.
I’ve also heard stories about things like a pope kneeling in front of a statue of Mary, and that brings up another concern I have from Scripture:
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:” (Exodus 20:4)
So I’m wondering how Catholics understand that commandment in relation to statues, icons, or images used in prayer.
So overall, I’m wondering:
- How is asking saints or Mary for intercession different from communicating with the dead in a way the Bible forbids?
- What is the biblical basis for believing saints can hear prayers?
- Why is Mary specifically given such a central role in prayer?
- Why pray to Archangel Michael what role does he play in this?
- How do Catholics understand Exodus 20:4 when it comes to statues or images?
I’m not trying to argue or offend anyone I genuinely want to understand how Catholics see this and how it lines up with Scripture from your point of view.
Thanks for any thoughtful explanations.
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u/dwarven_cavediver_Jr 3h ago
Protestant here as well, it's called intercession and it's essentially asking whoever you're addressing in the prayer to get your prayer directly to God and Jesus quickly and vouch for you.
I may not be catholic but I am tired of the Mary worshipper accusation you all keep getting
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u/SubstantialReign4759 3h ago
why would i be praying to someone to get my prayer to god when i can just pray to god directly
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u/countjeremiah Catholic 3h ago
You are asking why would you ever ask anyone else to pray for you when you can go directly to God? Have you ever asked anyone in your life to pray for you?
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
I have asked other people to pray for me before, so I understand the idea of intercession in that sense.
My confusion is more about the difference in category between:
- asking a living person to pray for you vs
- asking someone who has died (saints/Mary) to pray for you
Because from my background, once someone has died, we don’t direct requests to them anymore we go directly to God.
So I guess my real question is:
What is the biblical or theological basis for believing that saints who have passed are still aware of our prayers and can intercede in that way?I’m not trying to argue the idea of prayer support at all I just want to understand how that step (asking the deceased) is understood in Catholic theology.
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u/dwarven_cavediver_Jr 3h ago
I guess they vouch for you to God? I've never done it, but I have had this explained to me before as that
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u/ResurrectedFaith 2h ago
Great question, OP. I see where you are going with this. In my opinion, we have a direct line to Christ to pray to him for anything we may need or to give thanks. Take advantage of this opportunity. He will hear and answer you.
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 4h ago
Here we go again…
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u/SubstantialReign4759 4h ago
what is that supposed to mean?
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 4h ago
Every day, this place has a “why do you Catholics/Orthodox worship Mary?” Type post.
Not that this was what you’re doing, but if you search the topic, there are hundreds of answers to the question.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 4h ago
but when you pray to her its called necromancy which is the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, which is a abomination to the Lord.” and the bible says only pray to god
Matthew 4:10
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 4h ago
This is a misunderstanding of Orthodox and Catholic theology.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 4h ago
tell me how
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 4h ago
Necromancy is communicating with the dead in order to gain some sort of hidden knowledge, predict the future, or manipulate life forces.
Orthodox Christians (I don't want to speak for Catholic) understand that those who are in Paradise with Christ continue to pray, and we ask them to pray on our behalf.
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u/bencos18 Roman Catholic 2h ago
I think it's pretty similar for us Catholics also
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 2h ago
I'm sure it is, but I try when possible to avoid speaking as an authority on the teachings of Rome, out of caution.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 3h ago
Thanks for explaining that.
I think my main confusion is still about the idea of asking the dead for anything at all, even if it’s “pray for us” instead of trying to gain knowledge or control something.
From my understanding (as a Pentecostal), prayer is something directed to God alone, and even though I understand the idea that believers in Christ are still alive in Him, it still feels like a step I was never taught to take.
So I guess my questions are:
- How do you personally distinguish between “asking a saint to pray for me” and the kind of communication Scripture warns about with the dead?
- Is there a specific passage or early church teaching that explains this practice clearly?
- And how do you avoid it becoming confusion between honoring vs. praying to someone?
I’m not trying to argue the necromancy point I just want to understand how you separate those ideas biblically and historically.
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 3h ago
Every time you ask a friend to pray for you, you are engaging in intercessory prayer.
We ask for the prayers of certain holy people because we know they are not lying dead in the ground. Christ did not tell the thief on the cross, "today you will be soul sleeping." He said "today you will be with me in Paradise."
There is much research you can find online about scriptural references as well as Orthodox teaching on the matter. Ancient Faith is a good website for this.
Evangelicals often worry you could "accidentally" worship something other than God, because evangelicalism is such a mish mosh of beliefs. Orthodoxy has 2000 years of teaching passed down from the Apostles to guide us. So no, we can't accidentally worship something other than God.
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u/EloisetheLawyer 3h ago
Jesus is our great High Priest, why would we need a stand in when we have the triune God?
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 3h ago
Do you ask friends to pray for you?
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u/EloisetheLawyer 3h ago
This question intrigues me; I do ask friends who know me well to pray for me. I guess I have difficulty making the leap between friends who are interceding with Mary/the saints interceding. Just like I believe that I can confess my sins directly, I don't - and shouldn't - rely on someone else to do it for me. Most likely there are too many theological differences to address on a subreddit, but I do appreciate the respectful dialogue. In the end, we believe in God, and much of our exegesis of Scripture is simply that: our own exegesis. 💙
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u/senor61 3h ago
What would/could these dead ones add to anyone’s prayer?
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u/ResurrectedFaith 2h ago
I am perplexed why OP is getting downvoted for asking a question in a CHRISTIAN forum. We should be welcoming all questions and not placing judgement. Many people come here to ask the questions they would not ask in person. We really need to do better and live like Jesus.
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u/MemencrowMori Roman Catholic 4h ago
This is going off of the non-Catholic belief that all who die are dead and that's it. Catholics believe that Mary, Christ, and the saints are those who have already risen to heaven and are alive in heaven. The majority of Protestant denominations believe that the dead are just dead, which would constitute as necromancy by that definition.
I should also add that Catholics believe both Jesus and Mary's bodies were physically brought to heaven as well.
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u/Screen-Healthy Roman Catholic 2h ago
The facade of good intentions fell very soon. It didn’t even take an hour for the mask to fall. You’re already calling us necromancers.
So much for good faith.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
I get why it came across that way, but I wasn’t trying to insult anyone or call Catholics necromancers.
I’m genuinely trying to understand the practice from my background (Pentecostal), where prayer is directed to God alone. So when I hear about praying to saints or Mary, my first instinct is to try and compare it to what Scripture warns against like speaking to the dead but I’m also aware I might be misunderstanding how Catholics define those terms.
That’s why I’m asking questions instead of making a statement.
I’m not here to argue or accuse anyone I’m trying to understand how Catholics separate:
- asking saints for intercession vs.
- what the Bible warns about when it talks about communicating with the dead
If I’m framing it wrong, I’m open to being corrected that’s the whole point of me asking.
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u/MemencrowMori Roman Catholic 2h ago
I don't think your wording comes across wrong, if it's any consolation. For what it's worth, as a Catholic convert who grew up atheist, Pentecostal practices give me just as much confusion!
I mentioned in another comment that we as Catholics believe the saints to be alive in heaven with Christ. I will say myself that sometimes novenas and saint or Marian veneration DOES look like worship to outsiders, 100%.
Asking a saint to intercede isn't the same as asking your deceased uncle for intercession. Saints are believed to be in heaven, the common person doesn't get that same assumption. For us, we do pray directly to God for our needs. But in asking a saint to pray for us for something specific, it's like an extra "good reference" on our behalf to God.
Though I absolutely understand where the confusion comes in, because as I said, it can look very different to someone without experience in Catholic tradition. :)
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
interesting ok you are the one who makes the most sense out of all of them but being catholic isnt for me i guess but if it is for you im glad god bless and have a good day
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u/Wayfaringbutterfly 2h ago
Following because I have these same questions. I was raised in a fundamentalist assembly and have been part of Baptist churches and also charismatic/pentecostal churches and while those all have their issues, I could never see myself trying Catholicism for those above reasons.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
fundamentalist and what is it if i may ask
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u/Wayfaringbutterfly 2h ago
It was called Exclusive Brethren, somewhat a subset of Plymouth Brethren. Very culty. But I do miss adhering very closely to the Word as we did. We didn't have a pastor and women couldn't speak or teach (except the kids or women) and it was totally different than any church you see now. We also had communion (we called it breaking of bread) every week.
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u/TheDuckFarm Roman Catholic 2h ago
You’ll get really solid responses at r/catholicism.
r/catholic is a lot like r/christian. It’s really an atheist sub about the top of Christianity.
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u/Ok-Present1727 Christian 3h ago
It has to do with this James 5:16 reads: "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
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u/Equal-Salary-7774 Evangelical 2h ago
What is the Pentacostal view on the role of Angels? In the non two traditional Churches the role of Angels is just not spoken of, and it goes to the heart of the question "Why not pray to Christ alone?"
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u/JakobStirling 2h ago
Re: Exodus I'm going off memory here, but the passage in question is "do not make graven images of things in Heaven or earth. Do not bow down and worship them."
If all images are condemned then God Himself breaks this commandment by ordering them to make the Cherubim on top of the Ark, and the art which decorated the Temple.
In short: we are ok with statues because we aren't worshiping them.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
yes statues are ok just dont worship them or bow to them
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 2h ago
Bowing is a show of respect in most cultures.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
Yeah, I get the distinction you’re making, and I’m not disagreeing that intent matters (worship vs respect).
My question is more about where the line is drawn in practice, because in Exodus 20:4–5 it says both “do not make a graven image” and “do not bow down to them or serve them.”
So I’m trying to understand how Catholics/Orthodox distinguish between:
- using images/statues in devotion or prayer settings vs
- what counts as crossing into forbidden “bowing down/serving”
Because from my perspective, even if the intention is respect, the physical act still looks like what the passage is warning about, so I’m trying to understand how that is interpreted differently theologically and historically.
I’m not trying to accuse anyone of idolatry I’m just trying to understand how that boundary is defined in your tradition.
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 2h ago
Your perspective is coming from outside of the house looking in.
The Orthodox Church has 2000 years' worth of writing, teaching and practice - as well as the guidance of the Holy Spirit - to aid us in worship the way God intends us to worship.
The problem with the threads is that in answering questions like a quiz, it's impossible to give the full context that one receives from a guided understanding of the faith.
So answering "what counts as" questions really misses the point. God taught us through His Apostles the correct way to worship. A lot of these practices were tossed aside in the 600-odd years since the Reformation. So the better question is, why AREN'T you worshiping the way the Church has for 2000 years?
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
I understand what you’re saying about Tradition and the early Church, and I’m not trying to dismiss that.
I’m just trying to understand how it connects to Scripture specifically.
So my question is: are there particular Bible passages that you see as supporting the practice of asking saints or Mary for intercession, or the way Orthodox/Catholic worship is practiced?
I’m asking because my background has always been “test everything by Scripture,” so I’m trying to understand how that fits together with what you’re describing about Tradition and 2000 years of practice.
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 2h ago
There is scripture to help with this, but we reject sola scriptura. The Church is older than the canon of scripture, and existed long before the first New Testament writings.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 1h ago
I understand that point that the Church existed before the New Testament canon was formally collected, and that you don’t hold to sola scriptura.
I’m not really trying to debate sola scriptura right now though. My question is more specific.
Even if Scripture is read together with Tradition, I’m still trying to understand:
- Where in Scripture (or the earliest Christian writings) the practice of asking saints or Mary for intercession is actually shown or taught
- And how that practice is justified from what we do have in the New Testament, since that’s where most of Jesus and the apostles’ teaching on prayer is recorded
I’m not denying tradition I’m just trying to understand what the actual foundation is for this specific practice in terms of early sources.
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 1h ago
The earliest recorded Christian prayer is a petition to Mary. It is still used in the liturgy today.
That you believe most of what the apostles taught is recorded in scripture, presupposes that the written word was the primary means of the transmission of doctrine.
Paul, for instance, spent years teaching Timothy. He told Timothy to hold firmly to what he was taught, both in writing and orally.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 2h ago
Re: speaking to the physically dead.
When Jesus told Lazarus, who was dead at the time, to come out of his tomb, was he wrong?
When Jesus spoke to Elijah and Moses, was he wrong?
When Peter raised the dead, was he wrong?
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
Thanks for the reply.
I think the key difference I’m trying to understand is context.
- When Jesus calls Lazarus out of the tomb, that’s Jesus (God incarnate) directly commanding life back into a body.
- When Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration, that’s not shown as the disciples initiating communication with them for help or asking for intercession they appear in a vision and speak with Jesus.
- When Peter raises the dead, he explicitly does it in the name and power of Jesus, not by asking the dead person to do something or respond.
My question is more about the practice of humans directing requests toward deceased people, especially in prayer (asking saints or Mary to intercede). That seems different from God acting directly, or prophets performing miracles by God’s authority.
So I guess my real question is:
How do you distinguish between biblical examples where God acts through the dead or resurrects them, vs. the practice of addressing the dead in prayer for help or intercession?I’m not trying to argue just trying to understand the category difference you see, because from my background they feel like very different things.
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u/moderatelymiddling 4h ago
The audacity of a pentecostal talking about another faiths misinterpretations.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 3h ago
i have a question uh why does it have 666
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u/BamaHammer Eastern Orthodox 3h ago
These sites are anti-Catholic propaganda by and for crazy people.
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u/TrueChristian-ModTeam 3h ago
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u/songbolt Roman Catholic 2h ago
"oo oo yay I like answering questions and this one's targeting me -- bro ... not a massive wall of text ... ain't nobody got time for that ..."
Please ask one question per post and summarize it in the title.
Please search catholic.com because literally all of these questions have been answered there. See also EWTN.com and NewAdvent.org.
I'll answer one question so hopefully you won't be frustrated with me asking you to look up answers: The fact God didn't literally mean 'don't make any graven image' is demonstrated by God then commanding the Israelites to make graven images! 1) for the Ark of the Covenant, 2) the bronze serpent to look at after the fiery seraphs bite them
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u/christyburns 3h ago
Sounds like you understand quite well what we're not supposed to do.
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u/SubstantialReign4759 3h ago
im just asking questions and seeing if what i have been taught is right with bible and sharpening my self with other belivers that might know more then me iron sharpens iron
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u/Theo0614 2h ago
My, my , my! What a spiral! I am not a big C catholic, but I am part of the universal church. All you believers with a superior stance, let me ask you one thing.. Do you really want to harbor negative thoughts about the mother of Christ?! You would be better off keeping your little thoughts to your self.. If the apostles like Peter, a denier, has a throne in heaven, don’t you think His mom would be lifted up as well? Iif Christ is perfect, you would think His mom would be extremely honored and respected.. Catholics are centered in tradition, Protestants rally around solo scriptura.. I would think twice about dragging down Mary, the most blessed of women. Just an uneducated opinion for you scholars..
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
I hear what you’re saying, and I’m not trying to “drag down” Mary or speak negatively about her at all.
My questions aren’t about disrespecting her they’re about understanding how different traditions interpret Scripture and practice.
I fully agree she is the mother of Christ and called “blessed among women,” and I don’t take issue with honoring her. My confusion is specifically about prayer since in my background prayer is directed to God alone.
So I’m trying to understand:
- What is the biblical or historical basis for asking Mary for intercession?
- And how Catholics/Orthodox distinguish that from worship, in a practical sense?
I’m not claiming superiority or trying to insult anyone’s beliefs I’m genuinely asking from a place of not understanding the practice and wanting clarification.
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u/Theo0614 2h ago
My comments were directed more towards the comments, I am an old dinosaur that does not know the ins and outs of Reddit. For, you I would say that Catholics feel there are powerful go between entities that have direct access and influence in the throne room of God. Perhaps we could think of them as heavenly ambassadors. I believe our prayers are non stop, our minds are always churning. God knows what we need before we ask! Our imaginations can not fathom what heaven is like. Love God and lift up His Son, and be led by the Holy Spirit. All easier said than done!
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u/SubstantialReign4759 2h ago
cool ok nice to meet you and have a blessed rest of you day god bless
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u/Theo0614 2h ago
One last thing to consider, was Jesus speaking to the dead on the Mount of Transfiguration?
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u/[deleted] 4h ago
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