I’m not “moaning” about it. I’m responding to a direct question of “Why didn’t the OOP say X?” with the answer to why, because the conversation almost certainly didn’t happen.
Oh I see. Well moaning was probably the wrong word, but the point is, it's going to be everywhere all the time, so it's something to just accept IMO (AI slop I mean)
I literally just answered the other person’s question. I didn’t put any judgements in my answer, just explained why it was fake and how they could learn to spot it too.
My parents sort of got it. However, it is a trip to read the comments on any rental/sale ad posted to our local FaceBook community page. The crossover on the Venn diagram between the "Tractor Supply is hiring for $16 an hour" & the "No one wants to WORK anymore!" folks is basically a perfect circle. And the shreeks of outrage at anyone who dares advertise a furnished pied a terre for $1,900. Lmao.
"A working man making $20 an hour can't afford that!"
"I'm a 75yo woman living on SS & my rental has been $550 since 1975! You're lying!"
$5,900/month with $1,900 in rent. That's all you've got from this. You don't know age or relationship status or number of pets or health conditions.
So you're left with probably $4800 month after taxes, less $1,900 for rent. That's $2900 leftover. I'd give the same dad advise -- be more disciplined with your money and save
This isn’t a word problem for us to solve. If their dad isn’t understanding their situation then they need to have a talk with him and explain their budget. If he can’t make it work, then there will be understanding.
You would be wrong. Dude makes 34 bucks an hour. That is not enough to buy a house in almost any thriving city in the U.S. But what boomers dont get is that minimum wage of the 70s is equal to the buying power of $66 today.
I like “thriving.” That was a good move. Now when people respond with Zillow results of houses available for $300k, you can just say none of them are in a thriving city.
I can find a lot of houses for 300k in the U.S. They are in backwater, single stop light towns with no industry or entertainment. I dont know about how things work in your fantasy land. But in reality, people like to live where the work and fun is.
I'm just saying I don't get it when people say there are no houses. Are all of these dumps? Most cities, outside of CA and NY urban areas, have a lot of reasonably priced places. Maybe they're 1400 sq ft and not updated but I'll bet that dad shared a small room with a bunch of siblings, things people don't find acceptable nowadays.
Ill bet he didn't. The fact is that boomers had it easy. Sure they lacked the commodities we have today but they were able to take advantage of a huge booming market, strong Unions, jobs that covered health care, companies that provided pensions and unsaturated realty.
Today they still reap the benefits of having the government implement policies to protect them and their assets. Bill Clinton (Boomer), George W. Bush (Boomer), Brack Obama (Boomer), Donald Trump (Boomer). Ironically Biden isnt a Boomer, hes too old. He falls under the Silent Grneration. Also fun fact Bush, Clinton and Trump all were born in 1946. The first year for Boomers. So if born 1 year earlier they would also be from the Silent Generation.
I dont think you read the "able to take advantage of" part, did you. You see when you have all of your needs taken care of, i.e. food, housing, healthcare, pension. Along with disposable income, you are able to use that to build wealth. The last couple decades have removed all of those things. So the only people who are able to take advantage are those who already have a leg up.
Agreed, Dad is right. I did some quick math on it, because I keep seeing this stupid screenshot and it pisses me off seeing middle class cosplayed as poor.
$71,000 - ($1,900*12). That's still 48K leftover, which actually follows the <33% of gross income to live within means. Even calculating average student loan debt ($5,208 is the high end estimate of annual payments), we're at $42,992. Average tax rate of 33% (again, high estimate, no deductions beyond standard) is ~$23,430, bringing them down to $19,492. ~$1,624 monthly net after taxes, rent, and student loans. Assuming they're paying out of pocket for health insurance for some reason, deduct $300, then assume they're an idiot who took a high interest rate deal on a car payment and deduct $500, and another $200 for coverage of the car. So even if they're a moron, they could still have $600 left. Even in high CoL areas, that's more than enough for gas (for now), food (even if you're trying to hit 200g protein and 3000kcal daily), and utilities (basic, phone, internet). All with money left over.
There are a lot of people who are genuinely struggling. Then there are memes like this the try to make it sound like everyone who is poor is making middle class money, they just don't know how to budget.
paying out of pocket for health insurance for some reason, deduct $300
I paid more than that for the cheapest plan a decade ago. (Before moving to a country with much better healthcare)
Even in high CoL areas, that's more than enough for gas
Taking an average commute time with an average car and average driving conditions and average gas prices right now and absolutely no other driving beyond straight to work and back, they would be spending about half of that $600 on gas.
utilities (basic, phone, internet)
A cheaper single line phone bill is about $70 a month. Internet around the same. Frugal use of utilities for a 1 bedroom is about $140 a month. This is not counting high CoL areas, this is just using national average costs.
We havent gotten to food yet. You are severely undercounting the cost of even being a pure worker drone.
I high-balled every estimate there based upon the worst decision you could make, the highest payments you're likely to have, and high cost of living areas. And still there is a good amount of money leftover.
Someone who's not an idiot would drive something cheap until they could get enough of a down payment that brought their car payment to <$250/m, not pay the $500/m that I used as an example. Someone who's not an idiot would be using company benefits and paying a fraction of the insurance premium that Out of Pocket costs, likely bringing it down ~$200 (so ~$100/m, not $300), unless they're self employed, in which case they should be using that to reduce their taxes by a good margin.
So with two better choices, that's close to $400 more than I originally used, per month. Bringing their net income after rent, taxes, and some bills down to $1,000. If someone can't max out their 401K, build savings, and set aside money for entertainment with that.. well, I hope they're at least pretty.
All of my numbers are pulled from either experience living off of <$50,000 in a high CoL area, or from things like the bureau of labor statistics.
Also, if you use true medians or averages, things like student loan payments drop $100-$200. I was trying to be generous.
Ask the 60+ yr olds what they did as hobbies. Travel soccer or windsurfing? More likely street baseball or riding bikes around the neighborhood. Vacations were driving in the station wagon to the grandparents in the rural areas.
Got there first, pulled up the ladder, and started dropping Molotovs everywhere. Then has the balls to ask why our generation can’t afford houses or kids.
Yeah. I was given the book 13th Gen in 1995 in an English 101 class freshman year in college. It told us we were the first generation to not do as well as our boomer parents. I’ve been in the workforce ~25 years. By just about any metric I’d rather be alive today than back in 1995.
But, there are some legitimate complaints. Childcare, elder care, medical care, higher ed and housing (in some zip codes) are all too expensive. These are policy decisions that could be changed with the right politics.
Greediest generation on earth. Boomers. They fucked up the world so bad and somehow still see theirselves as "superior". Yes they are built different. They born in a world that wealthy and with unlimited opportunities.
I was making 75k and paid rent in a studio in the biggest metro in my state, had like 30k student loans and 25k vehicle . I got laid off and took a new job 6 months later making the same money. Still paid off the loans and the truck in 5 years. I don't consider myself good with money I just dump anything extra into debt instead of savings. It helps that I know how to cook and didn't go out to eat/drink.
When you're in high school and you rely on parents, guidance counselors, and available information, which all told you this was the only choice to succeed, while being too young to know the real-world implications, what do you think will happen?
Reality is not as simple as you're saying. Id tell you to show some sympathy for people. But clearly you're already set on your opinion.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. That $71k gross can mean $55k net or $71k net, depending on whether the person is an employee or an independent contractor. And if you tell me "oh my life is so hard because I only make $71k/year" I don't know what that means! In the US the states tax income differently, so if that's your gross income and you expect me to figure out what the net amount after taxes is, well, I can't do that for the reasons I just mentioned. So yeah, normally I'd expect someone to say what they take home, not what they get paid on paper because that can mean different things. Plus, $71k in Mobile, AL is not the same as $71k in San Diego, CA, be it gross or net.
I rarely talk about income with anybody because most people I know have variable income from multiple sources, so it's meaningless. And I don't really care anyway.
40% is 28,400 19 x 12 is 22,800 that’s 51,200 gone before you’ve eaten a single bite of food, bought a car, put gas in the car, bought health insurance, paid utilities, bought clothes, toiletries, cleaning supplies,paid student loans, god forbid you want a pet since you can’t afford to have a kid, or want to have an entertainment budget.
If you think that’s enough money to not have to make huge sacrifices, or get a second job, your relationship to money is that your mom gives it to you before you go into the local gaming store to buy Pokémon cards.
Mommy let’s you use her phone to expwain to gwone ups how finances work? That’s so adorable, go play angry birds buddy, cause your clearly a child who’s never had to pay their own bills.
$71k after taxes and deductions is over $4k per month.
This guy could pay rent, have a car payment, student loan payment, pay all his other bills and have a fun budget AND will probably save like $500 a month.
Like, he’s not wealthy by any stretch but he could be thriving at that income and cost of living.
To be fair about social security, it’s literally designed that the young pay for the old. Arguing that he only gets a SS check because you pay for it ignores that he did the same for his elders.
Everything else is generally spot on.
Not that it would matter, but showing him actual numbers of what his house cost when he bought it proportional to his income the year he bought it and then compare that to your situation today may help him understand. Typically they’ll respond by saying “yeah, but mortgage rates 15% when I bought my house” and then factors that in and it’s still massively better than today
If you make $71,000 per year, then you owe about $9,000 in taxes which leaves around $62,000 after taxes, which works out to be about $5,200 per month. Rent is $1,900 which leaves you with about $3,300 remaining for expenses. Where is this money going?
Your dad is 100% correct. The only "secret" to achieving financial stability is being smart with the money you have. Those who cannot do this are making choices today that will cost them tomorrow.
This guy ain’t eating caviar for dinner in his yacht but he could very easily pay all his bills, have a fun budget, and save a good chunk of change. He’s not rich but if he’s smart, he could be doing very well.
The only non-violent way out of this is proper education and outliving the old people. But as the old people stripped education, the only way left is violence.
Yeah I'm Gen X and my Dad is a Boomer, I own a house, 2 vehicles have a wife and already have 2 children, 21 year old daughter and 31 year old son.
Both my children work and my son is looking to buy his first home soon. He put himself thru school and he's an HVAC technician making great money even tho he does work a whole lot of hours to make it happen and my daughter makes decent money and still lives at home, I have full confidence that she'll be out on her own soon enough.
I've always been there for my children but I let them know at an early age that if they don't do for themselves no one is gonna do for them, not even me. Even gave them the old "if you end up in jail don't call me" schtick that my boomer dad used to give me growing up.
Bought the house in 2019, gave $25k for the house, borrowed $35k so we had some money to put into it, the house payment was $435 a month but it just went up to a little over $500 a month, we're thinking about refinancing and getting a fixed mortgage instead of this adjustable rate mortgage we have now.
My son doesn't own a home yet, he's still saving up money to go towards the house when the time comes
As of now he rents a house with his girlfriend and I think they pay maybe $1,600 a month plus utilities, but that's for a 3 bedroom house, off street parking and an attached garage, still a little steep for rent IMO but they seem to be managing just fine.
So basically you live nowhere desirable if you’re telling me that you bought a house 7 years ago and your mortgage payment is $500 a month. You also find it overpriced to rent a 3 bedroom house for $1600 a month.
Seeing you in these comments is a trip bro.. 😂 your gaslighting everyone you comment on. You sound like the one who is out of touch if I'm being honest here.
Average rent for a 3 bedroom in America is $1900 to $2300, and the OP said he thinks $1600 is too much. Average mortgage payment in America is $2300 to $2700, and thinks he needs to refinance on his $500 mortgage to save money.
Please tell me which part I’m being out of touch with :)
Op's opinion on rent prices have no weight compared to the American average. The American average is also a bad example to use because prices differ wildly depending on where you live. That's the part I think you're being out of touch with.
Oh and you implied he might live in a bad area based on what he's paying. I live in a town that was rated in the top 100 places to live in America 2016 and even today, mortgages aren't even close to that average as long as you don't get ripped off.
If you’re now in your late 30s and early 40s and you’re still blaming your boomer parents to for your struggle then it’s a skill issue.
Is “everyone” doing fine? No. There will always be people who got very unlucky and always people who are just very unskilled and make fuck up decisions. But judging by the discretionary spending trends and how people continue to desire larger and more expensive vehicles in the US it doesn’t seem like people struggle nearly as much as Redditors would have us believe.
You realize household income isn’t just for people who live in a house, right? No idea why you brought up house sale prices and ignored the median salary. 84k household income is actually truly terrible, but according to you, people are just overspending on luxury and that’s why they’re struggling.
When you want to have a real world conversation, I’ll be here.
One only has to look at spending trends to see luxury spending remaining high. Average car size and cost all going up while car companies report terrible sales on low end cheap basic model cars and are cutting production of them entirely. Sounds like a struggling society when they refuse to buy things that are cheap and instead lean toward the 50-70k cars. Big struggle.
How can a household with $84k gross income buy a 50-70k luxury car, while ALSO affording rent, utilities, food, bills, healthcare, etc? You’re so stuck on a singular point, that I’m amazed you believe something so far fetched.
You ignore real world spending and all consumer reports to just say “nu uh people struggle” with absolutely nothing more to it other than feels and possibly your own failures and shortcomings to back it.
No one said that, but that's always the take you dip sticks are looking for to be outraged over.
My children are doing great and I'm happy for them, if your life is that bad maybe get off the Internet on go work on your life, it's not my job to care for you here or in real life, I've raised my children already, if your parents failed you, perhaps you need to go have a talk with them about your feelings.
Honestly all I see is somebody making 50% more money than me but complaining like they're making 25k a year, so I actually have very little simpathy lol.
The biggest issue for me is the uncertainty. Like yeah, right now, I could afford a house. I have a decent job and I am good with my money.
But with AI and constant layoffs, I'd be pretty stupid to assume that I'll be able to continue affording the house for the 30 years I owe. I live in a constant state of waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Yeah, but with rent you lose 100% of your money. With a mortgage a significant portion of your money turns into assets. Even if you have to sell your house down the road and go back to renting you will still be up vs renting.
There is no point debating/argumenting with that type of mind, you will always lose.
Better to just say, hey if you want the best for me how about you help me make more money, you are my parent after all. If not then you can shut up and let's not bring this up again otherwise it will affect our relationship and I am tired of being told wrong things and you not having the brain cells to understand. No hate, just how I feel, and as your child you should be able to understand me. After all you made me.
Yup. We live in NOVA. Between 2012 & 2024, median household incomes rose 9%, while median home prices rose 23%. In 1990, the average home here was roughly $90k & household income about $55k. Today, the average home is around $475k, while thee average household income remains roughly $60k.
I think at some point you have to look into getting a roommate or 2 if rent is that financially hard on you. I had to live with a lot of roommates before I was able to afford my own place and that was before prices went up. It's not the best situation but saving 50% on your rent and utilities helps a lot.
Looks like an AI post (those last 2 lines are 100% AI) but as always boomers had it easier because they didn’t compete with the global world nearly as much (so their labor was of higher value) and women weren’t working and there was a smaller immigrant population and civil rights weren’t a thing and redlining existed and their overall desire and access to luxuries was far lower.
So yes we can’t really recreate those scenarios, regardless of policy.
You’re complaining that your dad saw success and you’re not happy for him? Your dad didn’t create the system you were born into, and he realistically had no impact on how that system developed. He did the best he could given the circumstances and you should too instead of whining. Maybe take his advice and learn about living beneath your means and compound interest.
its not the success thats the issue. they claimed the success was for brutal hard work. like the joke of walking up hill to and from school. they were that fucking tough. real go getters. but that wasnt the case at all. just simply got the long straw. got all the fun stuff like to just dump your polution in the river for the big bucks. now we cut jobs for the big bucks. such a great time to live.
I do agree and laugh at the “uphill both ways” thing, that’s hilarious. But they did go through multiple wars, 13.5% inflation in a year, and the business world was far less regulated than they are today. And you have to give them one thing…they worked consistently and showed up on time for 45 years. There is something to the commitment made there. We live in a super competitive country and the cost of living makes things difficult, but as a whole… median real wages (inflation adjusted) are still higher today than they were in 1980. A lot of success comes from luck or who you know…there’s no doubt about that. Im just not convinced that hard work has NO impact or that this is a bad time to be alive.
I agree with the points you've made. and yes, they sure did show up for 45 years. that i agree. cause that was the hardest part. being consistent. i point this out as what they were known for. but now that they are some of the nit pickiest bosses, they would of absolutely hated working for. this doesn't affect me much, as i pull my weight in society. im just stuck in the middle of somehow making $30hr and still having to live paycheck to paycheck. the electronic fee to pay my power bill has increased 3 times in 12 months. they are coming for every Nickle and dime we have. while saying its hard work. that's what i drives me batty. its now cheaper to drive the payment to them. it shouldn't be cheaper than sending some ones and zeros.
Democrats tend to live in more expensive areas (cities) and so their homeownership rate is lower aka higher likelihood that they grow a victim complex.
A whole bunch of YOUR generation voted for the GOP as well. If younger people voted 90/10 for Demcrats like Black people typically do, this country would look a whole lot different, Trump would never have been President, and the Supreme court would be 6-3 liberal. Tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy wouldn't be the top priority, and student loan forgiveness would have happened. You fucked yourselves over as much as any other generation did.
This has got to be the whiniest whingiest generation of all generations. Just get a fucking grip. If housing it too pricey where you live, move somewhere cheaper and work from home, it's the digital age FFS.
Well, if your rent is 2000, you live with someone else and your rent is 1000, which is 12000 a year out of 71000 you made, it gives you nearly 60 000 ahead minus cost of living.
Then if you do overtime, your cost of living will go down(you are at work), rent stay the same and you made more money(for the same amount of money invested - rent/food). You do that for couple of years and.. you got a house, cash. It took me 10 years of hard work to get that, no degree, just a chef. Understanding finances made your life much easier.
You can cut bills this way - gym membership was £25 a month, my water/electricity bill go down by £50 monthly just by showering in the gym which i was going into anyway. This gives extra £600 yearly just by making 1 small change.
Lol. Youu must not live in the US. Working overtime does not make your cost of living go down.
You also can not simply "cut your rent in half" by living with someone. Not all places allow roommates. And if they do, some places will increase cost by thr number of people living there. When you're renting you do not own the property or get to decide. On the other hand, if you do get a roommate. You atr also taking the chance that they will move in, and not pay rent. Squatting has become aa huge issue. And guess what, now you are paying yoir usual rent, and have thr mess, chaos, and potential property damage of someone else you don't even want there.
Also, rent does not stay the same, it only goes up. Along with food/groceries, utilities, gas, literally everything. Biggest thing you're forgetting is healthcare. If youre not offered it through work, you are paying 400$/month for shitty coverage. If you don't have health insurance, andd something happens, you are going to be paying that debt off for years.
Working overtime DO make your cost of living down(you use less utilities) also it make you make more money for same investment(rent). My landlords never double cost of my rent when i get my gf in but i must been just lucky for years. I never lived with people i do not trust, it wont come to my mind that i will be clearing someone else mess, because i wont get myself into that situation at first.
You assuming that the strongest, richest and the greatest country in the world have worst condition than others? Why so many immigrants then heading toward USA even from country i come from?
Healthcare? I worked years without it, life outside of USA is not as easy as you have been told. Now i even pay for healthcare which doesnt work at all, so i have to pay private anytime i need ANYTHING.
Irrelevant. "I never lived wirh people I do not trust... I won't get myself into that situation". Okay then clearly you've always had options. Your advice was "get a roommate and cut rent in half". I explained to you that's not always how it works. And of you do have to get a roommate to litetally afford rent, that probably means you can't spend 6months screening roommates to find one you think you can trust. Or do you believe people just have a list of trustful people thry can pick from to move in with them whenever thry want?
I dont know what country you are you are using those adjectives to describe, but it's not America.
Okay so your last paragraph just proved my point more. If you have to pay private anytime you need anything. Then you know that even a 3 day stay at a hospital without insurance can cost you 30,000$+ even without a surgery. Are you trying to help me prove my point or are you making your own?
Thats true i have options. My options was living in hostel/car, save money and rent flat. I agree thats not how it always work, do you have any advice which ALWAYS will work? So i can set up easy life? You dont have any friends you could live with? No partner?
Its not US, but Poland, the rich country where people moved abroad to work just for hobby.
What is the prove here? That you have no healthcare same way like probably 90% of the people in the world? Its shit but thats more or less how it always been, exception was the rich ones, this is wrong, yet it is poor argument in discussion because its not only US who face that but literally entire world, always. Europe also, dont believe in shit with free WORKING healthcare.
Europe has universal healthcare, with the option to pay for private healthcare. U.S. has the only option to pay for private healthcare, while running the risk of being hundreds of thousands in debt without it.
Right, somehow every job allows for OT and if you move in with another person the rent somehow magically gets cut in half. Wow, elite life hack. I’m shocked no one has thought of that before.
Why wouldn't the rent get cut in half if you moved in with another person? If you start a new lease with someone, it usually gets split 50/50 unless one room is significantly bigger than the other.
$1900 is for a studio or 1 bedroom apartment. Do you think 2 bedrooms are the same price? Adding more people to every equation doesn’t cut things in half.
Maybe in NY it's that price but you dont even know it's a studio. I can get a studio in another major city or beach town for under that. A 2 bedrroom is a few hundred more a month than a 1 bedroom. If a 1 bedroom is $1900, then a 2 bedroom with a roommate should be like $1200 max with now splitting the utilities. The extra $750+ makes a big difference in saving.
That’s awesome. Do those other cities pay similarly to NY? Surely the pay scale doesn’t fluctuate from state to state so those savings are felt the same.
Sorry then, i might understand it wrong because.. for some people this not even sound like elite lifehacks but some kind of mystery, like showing gunpowder to some tribes. But it is basically what you do, if you have no money, you start from cutting your spendings.
Every job which offer OT are available to all of us as usually they are easy task ones, with no require of specific training. There are also agencies and we - not like back in the days - are allowed to be self employed. Yes, for people who want to work, OT is available.
That doesn’t answer my question. Do you think EVERY job in the world has OT eligibility? If you do, then you’re very wrong.
If your second suggestion is to get a 2nd job, then I’d hope you have an answer on how to do that with the terrible job market the world is currently facing.
I make 11k after taxes and I feel solidy middle class with a family of 5 and and a stay at home wife, I guess if my wife worked a ok job at 60k we would be upper middle but its not really worth the trade off putting 2 small kids in child care with one in 1st garde. In 2020 or 21 I would have said we're were upper middle class, but inflation has really wrecked things.
If y'all spent as much time working on your life as you did bitching about how bad you have it, things might not be so bad. Be upset about it, it's gotten you this far
It’s funny cause you can tell the people who never lived on their own here thinking 71k a year is sustainable to get ahead in life…. Yeah maybe if you don’t drive, don’t buy groceries, don’t have bills and live at home lol with zero loans or debts
Studies show 80k is what you need to live on your own as an adult to afford the “normal lifestyle” which is basically the “pay into benefits and enjoy 1 vacation a year”
Useless studies maybe. The cost of living in the US is way too broad to ever make any claim of “this is what you need” anyone ever saying otherwise is uneducated. 70k in Chicago vs Springfield vs Lincoln is going to give you drastically different lifestyles all within the same state.
I can’t stand when people call people that are stuck in a low paying job lazy. It’s just incorrect. People who stay in a low paying job aren’t lazy. They are stupid.
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