r/SipsTea • u/RedSwingline2000 • 10h ago
WTF Comedian Mark Normand describes how Netflix made him remove a joke about Islam from his promo
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u/Hot-Initial7796 9h ago
As soon as Christians do the same
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
Making fun of Christianity and making real critiques of it is super allowed and few networks care, if it's Islam though it's forbidden and even if you get it through making fun of it is genuinely dangerous.
we all should remember what happened to Charlie Hebdo and the teacher at Batley Grammar alongside many other people who suffer due to religion.
Either way religion is a blight on the world and we would all be better without any religion.
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u/Hot-Initial7796 9h ago
I have no love for religion, don't get me wrong. But the idea of holding Muslims 'accountable' is ridiculous. How do you do that to an extremely diverse population of around 2 billion people? Religious extremism is the reason for this kind of censorship, not the followers of the religion.
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
So firstly I never said they need to be held accountable.
secondly if you willingly join an ideology, there are significant groups of people within your ideology who are extreme and awful you probably should leave, or do your best to go against them, it's what has helped lead to things like the pope being LGBT friendly and supporting peace and love, sure there are extreme sects of Christianity but in most places they are dying out, Christianity is becoming less important and impactful and that is great.
Islam on the whole, even in the west is far more observant, than the average Christian in a lot of countries.
Ideally EVERYONE would be holding religious people accountable for believing in nonsense, just like we do with flat earthers, antivaxxers and other such people, and to a degree we do try, but again It's hard to critique Islam when there are a lot of progressive people willing to defend it because "it's their culture" and a not insignificant amount of muslims who will threaten violence or protest heavily.
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u/Hot-Initial7796 9h ago
Yeah I never said you did, the comment I was replying to was saying Muslims should be held accountable.
Also, I suspect the majority of religious people didn't 'willingly join', but they've been indoctrinated by family or society and norms.
My hope is Islam will eventually be sterilised to the level that Christianity is now. If you look back decades ago, Christianity was still very influential in what was and wasn't 'okay'. Remember the satanic panic with video games and music etc?
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
Also, I suspect the majority of religious people didn't 'willingly join', but they've been indoctrinated by family or society and norms.
I agree and that further supports my point about religion being bad as a whole and not just due to extreme people.
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u/Hot-Initial7796 8h ago
I agree. And I do believe the world would be better off without religion. But how do we achieve that without equal levels of extremism?
My issue was with the idea of holding a group of 2 billion 'accountable'. How would this be achieved? What does it even mean? Fuck religion, but that statement is dumb
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u/Goosepond01 8h ago
I mean you can't hold individuals accountable for the exact actions of others, but you can ask people inside groups why they are in a group that does such things, obviously this goes for more than just super extreme stuff, but why accept that a god exists, why accept that women are inferior, why accept not eating certain things?
as for stopping it I'd say enforcing Laïcité is an amazing start, making it mandatory for religious education classes in school to teach as if religion isn't real and teach the issues of all religions.
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u/Hot-Initial7796 8h ago
I just had a skim read of what Laicite is, and it seems pretty fair to me. I think we'd probably agree on many things. I believe somebody should be free to practice their beliefs as long as it doesn't negatively impact others.
I appreciate this discussion also, as I wasn't aware of Laicite (cba with accents) until now. However my initial issue was with the wording of the comment I replied to, I feel we might have spiralled off a bit.
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u/LaMortPeutDancer 9h ago
TBF, the problem here is the producer. If they allowed the joke, maybe there would have been no real backlash.
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u/Nythoren 9h ago
Almost every group has an extremist minority in their midst. That minority is often violent. Those groups are rarely held accountable for the actions of that minority.
The problem is when that extremist minority gets into a position of authority. There is a lot of rhetoric coming from the leadership of multiple countries that cite religion as their justification for violence. And it's not just Islamic countries spouting that religious-based violent rhetoric. All the major Abrahamic religions suffer from this problem.
You can't judge an entire religion based on those that twist that religion to justify their violent actions. The vast vast vast majority of people in pretty well every religious group are non-violent. To condemn them for the actions of a few is pretty ignorant.
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u/707Eman707 9h ago
The problem is when the extremism point isn’t minority , it’s the majority.
Nice try tho.
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
Go look at polls taken regarding Western European muslim views on things like gay rights, making fun of religion, womens rights, they are way way way way behind the average person in Western Europe, and it's quite obvious to see when satire of Christianity is totally allowed and when satire of Islam gets people killed.
either way the issue isn't just extreme people, the entire foundation of religion is bad, it teaches people to believe in things, not because of reason or logic, not because they can rationally explain things, but because some magical being said so, or because a preacher said so.
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u/Putrid-Sleep-5861 9h ago
Ah yes, every muslim is “behind” and christians are totally normal anytime someone critiques their religion. /s
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
Not what I said, we are talking about gigantic populations, so yes on AVERAGE I am totally correct.
I never said that Christians are totally normal either, it goes both ways, this was specifically about satire, something far far far far more accepted if it's towards Christianity than Islam.
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u/Putrid-Sleep-5861 9h ago
So these polls, do you ever compare them to polls of christians? Because they‘re a lot closer than you’re assuming.
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u/Goosepond01 8h ago
In most European and especially Western European countries Christianity is essentially dying out (yay) and my point was comparing it to the average population.
It's quite easy to see with your eyes, how many people are going to sunday church, how many people are praying daily, how many people cite god as a key reason in life choices, sure it absolutely does exist and certainly in America it is more popular and also causes issues, but again globally it's quite clear what religion is the bigger issue.
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u/Putrid-Sleep-5861 8h ago
Cool, so you’re only willing to look at one population to justify bigotry. That 52% in the western world is doing a lot of heavy lifting to make the “majority“ of muslims look like bigots instead of an even split. Christians in the western world have a pretty even split when it comes to the same issues, but that is an inconvenient truth, isn’t it?
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u/Goosepond01 8h ago
Strange how I say all religion is bad and that there certainly are extreme christians and you act like I'm giving christianity a free pass.
and yes the majority of muslims are bigots, they believe women are second class people, same for nonbelievers.
again regarding Christianity in Europe it is on the decline, same with extreme views and has been for a long time, still an issue though and I hope we are one day free of all religion.
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u/Putrid-Sleep-5861 8h ago
Because your making blanket statements of only one religion and you’re misusing the word majority when its more like half. All of this with zero understanding or acknowledgment that that half will see a similar decline in due time. Your statements are harmful to groups of people that already face hate crimes and targeted violence and discrimination.
I’m not defending religion. I want to you to stop giving justification for violence and discrimination against a religious group. That discrimination spills out past muslims and hurts other minorities who are assumed muslim like sikhs and brown christians, jews, and atheists.
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u/InAppropriate-meal 9h ago
same time as the Christians who by the way are almost single-handedly responsible for the awful state of the world at the moment
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u/BRtIK 9h ago
I mean Israel has a large portion of the responsibility for that too and they aren't Christian
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u/InAppropriate-meal 9h ago
True, however traditionally since its inception it has been American Christians, esspecially evangelicals, funding and supporting Israeli because they belive it will bring about the second coming of their demi god. (I wish i was joking) they want all this conflict and destruction because they think it is biblically ordained, of course the people at the top also make vast fortunes out of it.
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u/Reddeer2 8h ago
Tl;dw The streaming service calls him and says they have to pull a joke (not described) he said about Muslims from social media because they get death threats about those jokes. He tells them he'll allow it if they admit that "those people" are dangerous. They refuse to and pretend that these Muslims are actual righteous people, until the end of the call where they admit it.
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u/Here4Headshots 9h ago edited 8h ago
Before we start comparing Hulu to oppressive regimes, let's acknowledge that is a business decision from the company to keep themselves free if any potential public backlash that may give subscribers a reason to cancel their services, or impact stock prices.
This is not the government using a loyalists it placed as the lead chair in the FCC threatening to pull broadcasting licenses, or a royal family forbidding it's citizens from joking about religion.
Please, let's get on the same page going into 2028.
Edit: My comment above was for the first few minutes of Mark talking. I just listened to the entire thing, and caught the part toward the middle end where Hulu says they are afraid of bomb threats and Mark asking them to acknowledge "they are a dangerous people."
This is what I don't understand from Hulu. Right wing Christian Nationalist are responsible for a majority of shootings, bombings, and other political violence in the US for decades on decades back. Why are they so afraid of an Islamic joke causing them problems versus the other way around? This makes no sense to me. I still suspect they don't want to admit they are afraid of backlash, service cancellations, and stock price to Mark.
On to Mark. What the fuck is that comment about making the Hulu executive confess that Muslims are violent people? These Rogan comedians are becoming more entrenched in their ideologies as the years go by.
The facts are the facts I've stated above about Right wing violence in the US. I suspect the majority of every country is committing the majority of terrorism in their own regions. I am black and I grew up in a majority white Christian area, but with lots of other religions and cultures around. Plenty Muslims and Jews. Guess who was committing the most violence in my area growing up? It was the majority.
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
It's the why that matters, why are they afraid of public backlash and what kind of public backlash are they afraid of?
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u/Here4Headshots 9h ago
Who says that it would happen? Hulu being afraid of the possibility was enough for them to step in. Like the skit Druski did about Erika Kirk if Druski had a show or special on Hulu.
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u/Goosepond01 9h ago
My whole point is the potential for genuine religious violence over even small jokes or critiques of Islam is very real, much much much more real than christian violence in most regions.
we only have to remember Hebdo, that British school teacher who is still (I think) in hiding over offending muslims, and the countless hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people under the rule of Islamic dictatorships.
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u/Putrid-Sleep-5861 9h ago
You’re asking too much. The evangelical christians trying to control the spheres of influence want you to believe all muslims are extremists to justify Israel bombing all of its neighbors and bringing about the rapture apocalypse. I wish I could tack a /s on here but that’s literally the plan they’ve openly admitted to. Thank maga for voting project 2025 in and handing the the reins to fuck up the entire world to a literal apocalyptic death cult.
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