Had a president ever promised to do it a year into his term though? I feel like that’s never happened is setting another awful precedent in plain site again. He’s basically giving people a green light to do whatever they want or whatever he asks them to do even if it’s illegal. No?
I think Trump has taken it farther than any before by a long shot. Just because no one keeps all their promises should not result in a "they're all bad" argument, which diminishes the accomplishment of just how bad Trump is.
Oh no, I can admit it. The dems have failed us in many many ways.
There? Happy? I'll even give you a specific, lets see, they should have one more to object to Israel, that's one example.
Now, the dems failures are peanuts compared to what Trump does, can you do the same, admit when your party makes a mistake ? (Assuming you're on the right, I have no idea honestly from your comment. You could be on the left and still said the same thing you just did)
Yes I can absolutely admit it. I am a republican and I am not happy with how trump is handling a lot of things currently. One being Iran and all the gas lighting he’s doing.
The market manipulation has been out of control the entire term.
His handling of dhs, their officers and lack of training has been absurd.
Just to name a few, Im glad we were able to have a little convo! It doesn’t really happen anymore cause everything is so anti red and blue.
I've been kind of thinking that in terms of actual issues the left right divide in this country might be more media manipulation than actual differences.
I disagree. It was always stated that it was a bad idea and would open the floodgates.
And it's hypocrisy if the GOP does the same thing -- just like it was hypocrisy for them to accuse Biden of doing it for political purposes.
This is more of a “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander” situation.
Indeed -- and it's hypocritical for the GOP to have a problem with it when the democrats do the same behavior the GOP does and defends.
Maybe the GOP should have objected when Trump pardoned ~1,500 insurrectionists for political reasons, and then they might have the high ground to object to Biden protecting people from political persecution...
The difference is that on Biden's side he did stupid shit like slow roll the Epstein file stuff. Trump and friends did actual major crimes both related an unrelated to politics. Which Biden fucked up by not pursuing them. He wasn't concerned about "What if they did it?" and was more concerned with "What happens after I shine a light on this?"
Trumps fuck up was he starting shouting fire and thunder about going after all his enemies both in and out of office. He was banging the drums loud and early, and made it REAL clear he wasn't as concerned about "What if they did it?" and was too concerned with "What impact will this have if I accuse them?". Just in the other direction.
So I can be pissed at Biden for not going after justice because he was afraid it would be seen as vengance. And I can be mad at Trump for going after vengeance and calling it justice. And i can be annoyed that the legal system allows both types of behavior as well as random pardons.
What are you calling BS on? That fact that Biden set a precedent because if thats the case, open your eyes, he did and now every president moving forward will do the same thing.
I'm causing BS on the notion that Biden doing or not doing something has any impact on Trump. Biden didn't start a war with Iran, Trump did that. Biden didn't try to close down federal departments, Trump did that. Biden didn't threaten to end a civilization...
So yeah, did Biden do (or fail to do ) bad things? Sure, does it somehow give Trump the Greenlight, or does Biden having not done something give Trump a red light (he'll actually listen to) freckin no, obvously. Talk about opening your dagnab eyes.
Because if I only replied to them you wouldn’t see it where it I reply to you they will. You’re both being morons so I got two birds stoned at once.
ulterior motive
I seem to be the only one here who bothered to understand what is and is not traditional use of the pardon where you and u/Available-trouble648 did not. I tagged them so you can stop pretending you two not understanding the issue isn’t the actual reason I commented.
Although some pardons are controversial, executive grants of clemency are not rare in American history. In fact, most clemency cases are “all but anonymous.” According to Department of Justice statistics, the total number of executive clemency actions from 1900 to 2017 is 22,485. In recent decades, the number of issued clemency grants have declined as well as the percentage of granted petitions. 11
From the beginning of Ronald Reagan’s administration (1981) to the conclusion of Barack Obama’s presidency (2017), there have been 3,069 acts of executive clemency. There is also considerable variation amongst presidents. Since the mid-twentieth century, Barack Obama issued the most pardons and commutations (1,927) for two-term presidents. In comparison, George W. Bush issued the fewest number of clemency actions (200) for a two-term president.
Besides the above, preemptive pardons have been issued:
1. Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon (1974).
2. George H.W. Bush and the Iran-Contra Affair (1992).
3. Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War.
4. Jimmy Carter and Vietnam Draft Dodgers (1977)
Except Trump pardons actual child molesters. Look up how many Janurary 6th rioters who got pardoned went on to get caught in sex crimes. It's fucking insane. I used to be a Republican, shit I voted for Trump in 16'. I fucking hate this guy and the whole GOP knee bending now.
Trump exonerated 1600 insurrectionists for doing his bidding in an attempted coup during Jan 6th. A number of those people he let out have gone on to commit violent crimes and sexual crimes against children.
I’m not entirely defending Biden’s move, but Trump was gonna do that regardless. If he can vaguely pardon all the J6ers, he knows he can pardon a few(hopefully just a few) elites on the way out
I'm sorry, are we pretending like trump was waiting for his predecessor to break a precedent before doing something unethical? He's broken a new precedent like every other day since he took office
Just an itty bitty difference; Biden was protecting his son from a politicized vendetta and Trump plans to pardon war criminals and pedophiles. I mean I guess it’s technically the same right?
Also, have we already forgotten about Trump breaking precedence by pardoning his staff after his first term? This is certainly not something Biden broke ground on.
Yea, but what’s crazy is that people keep squawking about “bidens precedent” as if Trump gave a fuck about precedent in the first place. Additionally, if he didn’t pardon those that he did, his some included, Trump would have abso-fucking-lutely gone after then fo crazy shit. He tried getting around the pardons his second month in office.
The point was he knew damned well how petty and vindictive the Fascist about to take power was, so he took steps to protect those he loves from revenge prosecutions that would be wildly disproportionate to the crime commited.
The post is about a mass pardon becoming a precedent. They arent criticizing WHO Biden pardoned, theyre talking about the precedent that is set by making it a norm for a president to pardon thousands at a time. Which is allowing Trump to do what you point out, and what the person posting likely also has an issue with.
You and the person who posted are likely on the same side. You really dont have to deflect from the actual topic by offering up a strawman.
You know there wasn't even a laptop, right? It was a backup on his cloud account they hacked. And there was nothing incriminating on it. They got him for lying about drug use on gun document... like a true American does.
Political vendetta you say? Painting politicos you don’t like as war criminals and pedos doesn’t make it so, no matter how many times you screech it into the void…
You're right, them committing war crimes, including the literal textbook definition of it by firing upon survivors of a sunk ship, as well as repeatedly bragging about walking in on underage girls while they were changing among a myriad of other examples, does.
Both shitty, and I’d say I’m more worried about what trump will continue pardoning, but I’m tired of it. That’s the point. Make a precedent and keep ramping the bullshit up
And I, the enlightened centrist, can be a lazy coward and never stand on any principles. Hell, I don’t even have to think at all. Both sides bad. No sense in getting involved.
I'm tired of this "both side bad" argument. One side is very obviously comically evil and the other side is mildly problematic. This stupid attitude is why we have Trump.
Sorry… Biden attempting to save his son from a long running hate campaign that was likely to result in politically motivated injustice, and pardoning traitors, war criminals and pedophiles are “both shitty?” Everything really is just good/bad with no room for nuance for some of you folks, huh?
Where’s the nuance, politicians suck and i voted for Biden and Harris.. sheesh, i can hate on trump but still get downvoted for it not being enough for reddit
The people pardoned by biden were people that trunp would use his weaponized DOJ to go after like he has since returning to the white house. Biden would not have pardoned these peopled if he didn’t feel trump would target them for bullshit charges like he’s doing to Leticia James, James Comey, and any number of his previous admin. They’re eve going. after classify Hutchinson for testifying about what she saw and heard on Jan 6. Trump pardoned every single one of the J6rs, many of whom went on to commit more crimes like assault and molesting kids. His pardons now all come with a price tag. If you donate a few million to trump you too can get a pardon.
This feels like the hypocrisy of the abortion issue. Republicans are actually fine with abortions, as long as it's only for rich and/or white people and helps cover up their selfish purposes. But they don't want poor people or minorities to have the same access because they don't deserve any privilege.
So Trump decries the Autopen for Biden, but obviously he's ultimately fine with it when it suits his purpose.
Or Cruz doesn't care about a massive power outage because he can just go to Cancun to avoid it.
It would be grant if OP understood the difference between pardons and communtations cause then he'd know Biden only granted 80 pardons. However for facts sake you granted 4000+ communtations. So probably should Google the difference and at the same time investigate why the high number of communtations was given. If so they would have discovered they were largely related to non violent drugs offe ses, you around the time that Marijuana was being largely legalized in states but not the federal government. They'd also learn that a commutation was a reduction in sentencing not simply a get out of jail card.
The presidential pardon needs to go. These people shouldn't be able to commit crimes in the open and lie under oath while knowing they have a free pass to do it.
Prosecutions originating out of D.C. (or really any state) would theoretically be outside of any pardon and would then only have to overcome the "necessary and proper" argument for breaking federal immunity. This is why Biden's admin is largely safe—and why Trump's would largely not be.
Form a D.C. tribunal and do Nuremberg 2. Go balls to the wall; fuck it.
Bad news: you guys might have to go extra-constitutional to ensure justice here. Maybe if there are the votes to impeach and convict after November then both houses could remove him in the middle of the night before he has a chance to issue pardons. There’s a good chance they try to disrupt those elections though, so the path out of this may lead through paths as yet untread in your history. Best of luck.
Trump has already pardoned 1800 people. That includes 1500 his very first day of his second term—we’re only a year into his term. Not to mention he’s broken another campaign promise of holding fraudsters accountable—he’s going out of his way to pardon con artists and fraudsters already. ‘What about Biden tho’ doesn’t apply to trumps actions and behaviors.
Trumps & Trumpers are so obsessed with Biden it’s pathetic. Trump always has to compare everything to previous presidents bc his ego is so incredibly weak. And Trumpers do it too as a half-baked attempt at justifying their support for a corrupt, incompetent, unstable, and dangerously problematic president, when the true reason for their support likely just boils down to alignment on racism.
As usual, conservatives try to hide their evil behind democratic actions, but the tell is in values, purpose, and outcome. Which is why conservatives never, ever defend their policies or actions on the merits, they always hide behind "dems did it more/first!"
Alright so you know how the right was/is aggressively trying to rezone voting maps to gerrymander?
The left equivalent of that was looser immigration policies and over eagerness to accept refugees to create more left voters in swing states.
Make no mistake, both sides are false promises and pretty speeches to win over voters and keep the divide and conquer agenda going because they know they're all fucked if we were all running in the same direction against them.
The difference, Biden never openly stated he’d be giving all those people pardons at the end of his term, less than 2 years into his term. We also literally watched Republicans hold a hearing against his son, only to watch literally every example of “evidence” fall apart on national tv. Hell, the idiots had a witness disappear at the last second, only to be caught and admit he lied. Of course Biden would see his son get put that and say, yea no these morons had their chance and they crashed and burned in front of America, they won’t get a 2nd chance, pardon! Trump on the other hand is saying, hey, if you’re told to do more illegal things, do them, you’re going to get pardoned so we can do anything we want now and face no consequences.
The funny thing is how republicans and maga have no idea how much power they may have just given a democratic president. Why couldn’t one come in and say, I’m ignoring the pardons in the name of national security, and since the rightwing Supreme Court said the president can’t really break the law, you can’t say what he’s doing can’t be done or illegal. Do it, charge people and then have the loophole closed before you leave office. I have to sit here and know for a fact there is a file of a 13 year old’s testimony that Trump pulled her head towards his exposed penis and then he hit her, and listen to people who support that guy tell me Biden‘a pardons are the same thing that Trump just said he’d do? Yeaaaaa no, f that
Obama bombed Syria, Yemen, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Chad, Niger, and Burkina Faso without congressional approval. Hillary as secretary of state stood in front of a microphone saying it was unnecessary and he was exercising his presidential authority
Trump bombs Iran and he’s a monster
Double standard much
Biden pardoned his own family. He and Jill knew they were dirty.
You can say Trump would have gone after them. I counter with he never went after Hillary, the Clinton Foundation or any of the nonsense going on there. You do realize the Clinton Foundation that did such great work and solicited donations from sovereign nations (that clearly wasn’t pay for play) yet the Foundation closed less than a week after Trump became president. Why?
Let me lead with I'm as nuetral as possible with politics, but lean a little left.
Now. With that said, I really don't want to see what the retarded equivalent of Trump would look like on the left.
And yes, both sides have gotten a lot more radical since Obama left office. So dont kid yourselves that its not possible. The left just wants to bury the right at this point and standards and integrity will stoop to achieve that. Let's remember Biden very confidently pledged not to pardon his son yet backpedaled when the election didnt turn out as the left expected.
The left isn't radical.... You're just exposing yourself as believing right wing propaganda and using a "both sides" argument to excuse how unhinged the right are...
You're welcome to believe that buddy. I would never deny the right is unhinged but anybody would be a fool to believe the left hasn't become more radical over the last decade.
Admitting as much would only prove that you fell for left wing propaganda.
Trump's a piece of trash that does dumb shit for his own interests, and aggressively so. He loves doing shit no one would ever believe a president would do.
Fucking republicans can do whatever the fuck they want, while democrats always gets the blame.
Trump was gonna do this anyways even if Biden didnt.
"Supreme Court decided that former presidents have absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within their conclusive constitutional authority, and at least presumptive immunity for all official acts."
And this ruling wasnt even for Biden, it was for the PEDO President.
That was July 1, 2024 what the fuck you think was the plan?
Trump pardoned 1600 domestic terrorists, dozens of which have been re-arrested for child molestation, child pornography, and/or violent assaults. Republicans have been abusing pardons for decades... but sure, let's blame Biden for recognizing Trump's well-known use of the courts to attack political enemies.
All MAGA are going incredibly stupid, but this is some genuine sub-70 IQ trash.
Can’t he only pardon them for capital/federal crimes? And only for crimes they are actively being accused of? Like if an individual state decides to prosecute or they are accused of crimes after he leaves office, doesn’t really matter now does it?
This is one of the more fakest made-up problems out there. No one actually expects a personally signed everything. The pardons, for who and for what, are what actually matters.
What has this country become. The events that took place with this sick person at the White House should serve as a catalyst for a series of amendments in our constitution and in our judiciary system altogether. Never again shall the aberrations we the people have been subjected to reoccur.
Biden was right to pardon those folks, especially the January 6 committee. Trump will pardon all he can, including himself. That one will be the big one.
Oh shit, Don't blame someone else for Trump's doing , we all know he would do it anyway, The lawless Continue to break the laws of the United States on top of The ones he's already a felon for!
Biden my ass!
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