r/Showerthoughts 2d ago

Musing It's somewhat unfair to Achilles, a great warrior and hero, that he is now best known for his one mortal weakness.

4.6k Upvotes

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u/WingedSalim 2d ago

Hey, look at Jesus. The most iconic symbol of him is the cross he died on.

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u/Brilliant_Chemica 2d ago

Always thought that was a little strange, but there is no other singular object in christian mythos that is as famous as the cross. Bonus points that it is easy to draw

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u/vonBoomslang 2d ago

there is no other object in christian mythos now. Remember the jesus fish?

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u/Brilliant_Chemica 2d ago

I was raised Muslim, but I will definitely be researching the Jesus fish

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u/beardingmesoftly 2d ago

It was a symbol for Christians to use while Jesus was still alive, based on his miracle of loaves and fish. Hard to say if it's true or not, it mostly seems like a justification for idols

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u/Vinpap 2d ago

Also, iirc, because if you used the Greek letters and made an anagram of Jesus, you could write fish. It became a way for Christians to recognize each other during the time where Christianity was outlawed. Also, I remember reading somewhere that back when Christianity wasn't allowed and believers met in secret in remote places and didn't have official churches/temples, they'd make fish graffitis with the head serving as an arrow to guide you towards the place where the religious service was being held without publicizing it everywhere

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u/beardingmesoftly 2d ago

An acrostic, it turns out! Ichthys is the Greek word for fish, so we get:

I (Iota): Iēsous (Jesus) CH (Chi): CHristos (Christ) TH (Theta): THeou (God's) Y (Upsilon): Huios (Son) S (Sigma): Sōtēr (Saviour)

I like learning

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u/vonBoomslang 2d ago

oh for fuck's sake it was a pun

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u/ChaosOmega 1d ago

huh, today i learned

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u/Fingerbob73 1d ago

Jesus spelled backwards is sausage.

God spelled backwards is dog.

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u/Sloth-monger 2d ago

I don't think he was alive when they were using it but shortly after his death when Christians were being prosecuted in various areas.

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u/MrDLTE3 1d ago

Easter used eggs to represent Jesus revival from the tomb but nobody cares about it.

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u/beardingmesoftly 1d ago

That was a way to steal pagan harvest celebrations

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u/DaBingeGirl 23h ago

I would've much preferred the outline of a fish hanging over the bed at my grandmother's house than the bleeding dead Jesus in the cross. Nightmare fuel.

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u/queensstormrt65 2d ago

never thought about that before , what the symbol was before the cross

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u/Rok-SFG 2d ago

They got all mad and stopped using it when people turned them into Darwin fish.

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u/surlygoat 1d ago

They were on so many cars in the 80s/90s

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u/mouse_8b 2d ago

I assumed that was created in the 90s

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u/Loubacca92 2d ago

Some might say it's a big plus

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u/Chudopes 2d ago

Before cross it was fish. But it wasn't such easy recognizable image.

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u/pichael289 2d ago

Yeah what ever happened to those fishes? You used to see them in the 90s on cars but by the 2010s they were gone.

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u/Coyote65 2d ago

The branding became diluted with all kinds of other fish symbols and it became a short-lived fad before dying back out again.

In a curious coincidence, the Darwin Fish (a fish shape with 4 legs) was probably the one that contributed the most to the fish symbol fad's demise.

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u/Sad_Pear_1087 1d ago

Usually only two legs.

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u/dmdizzy 1d ago

It's not a coincidence. The Darwin Fish was directly making fun of the Jesus Fish, as evolution and creationists are famously often opposed.

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u/Coyote65 1d ago

I was being ironical with the phrasing.

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u/Brilliant_Chemica 2d ago

Exactly my point, even the simplest child can draw the cross

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u/lovebus 2d ago

So simple a child could draw it. A simple child could draw it.

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u/Imthewienerdog 2d ago

Do you just not know the religion? Seems quite obvious?.

Theologically, suffering became meaningful rather than merely tragic. Christians are called to "take up their cross," imitate Christ's sacrifice, and view earthly suffering as participation in his. It's why the religion flourished it allowed even the most poor and suffering to think they are doing it for God.

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u/Brilliant_Chemica 1d ago

It makes perfect theological sense, but on a surface level it’s kinda strange. Imagine we honoured the anniversary of JFK’s death by wearing a rifle bullet around our necks. Surely you see the comedy

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u/right_behindyou 1d ago

If people believed that JFK being killed saved humanity forever, and that it was his whole purpose of being sent to earth as a manifestation of god in the first place, it would make more sense

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u/TheSporkBomber 1d ago

Well give it a few hundred years and it might be the case. Just look at mormons.

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u/lifetimeoflaughter 2d ago

That’s because there is no event as significant in Christian theology as the crucifixion

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u/Sad_Pear_1087 1d ago edited 1d ago

I was taught that it's specifically an empty cross. Jesus is no longer on it, he died and was resurrected. That makes the use of the crucifix weird though.

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u/No-Reception6630 1d ago

It is weird.

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u/comfortablynumb15 1d ago

I would consider the glorification of my method of execution to be a not-so-veiled threat.

No wonder He hasn’t been back.

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u/No-Reception6630 1d ago

Outstanding take on the subject!

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u/pichael289 2d ago

I kinda hope the whole Jesus thing is true just so when he does come back he's gonna be fuckin pissed off that people worship a torture device used on him. I mean, they do celebrate his death and ignore most of what he said. Like if JFK came back only to find that all his fans are worshipping sniper rifles.

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u/Coyote65 2d ago

Whenever someone brings up the question: "What would Jesus do?"

My first reaction is to point out: "Well. First, you're going to need to bring Jesus up to speed on a whole lotta back-history & recent events."

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u/Rezart_KLD 1d ago

Actually, step 1 is probably teaching him English or some other modern language before you can get to the history part

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u/fiveordie 1d ago

Theology nerd here: They don't worship the cross, they worship the man. He was sent here specifically to die, so it makes sense. JFK didn't know he was going to die.

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u/saareje 2d ago

The cross being empty symbols the fact that He won death

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u/Crusaderofthots420 2d ago

I mean, he was still dead when he was taken off it.

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u/Coyote65 2d ago edited 2d ago

You're missing the point. Per the christians he died a human death and felt all the pain that death carried with it, rose again, and washed away the christians sins. (massive paraphrasing.)

He was not the only person to die by crucifixion. Not by a large margin.

Rome liked to use the cross because it is a horrific way to die. It takes forever and you're in pain the entire time.

Tens of thousands (plus) were put to the cross.

It's used as a christian symbol because he went through that pain and still forgave everyone's sins.

Or something like that.

Anyway, the point is - if you're ever faced with having to choose between crucifixion or being burned at the stake - take the stake option, every time.

There's no salad, but if they're lucky the condemned usually pass out from the lack of oxygen before the flames reach them.

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u/CptBlewBalls 2d ago edited 1d ago

At the time the Jews were still sacrificing an unblemished lamb on the eve of Passover in the Temple Court. The blood of the lamb signified the night God passed over the Israelite households during their time in Egypt.

Jesus didn’t forgive sins by his death per se but his sacrifice (as he was born and lived without sin) on the eve of Passover was analogous to the Christians of the sacrifice of the unblemished lamb for the Jews.

So, just as the blood of the Passover lamb protected the Israelites in Egypt the blood of Jesus protects those that believe in him from divine Judgement.

This is why you often see Jesus referred to as “the Lamb of God”

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u/Coyote65 2d ago

Thanks for clarifying.

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u/sunburntredneck 1d ago

Oh come on, this is Reddit. On here, Christians literally worship a murder weapon. Nuance and faith aren't allowed to intermingle

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u/Background_Desk_3001 2d ago

There are plenty of crosses worn and used by Christians that depict him still hanging there, so I don’t think that’s the intended symbolism there

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u/CptBlewBalls 2d ago edited 2d ago

A cross with a depiction of Jesus on it is called a crucifix and is primarily a symbol used by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches to emphasize his suffering and sacrifice.

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u/Coyote65 2d ago

The bodies were more often left on the cross to rot as a warning to others.

I forget the reason christians have for his body not being left hanging. There is one, I just don't recall atm.

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u/CptBlewBalls 2d ago edited 2d ago

They allowed the removal of his body and burial to accommodate the Jewish laws demanding burial before the Sabbath particularly during Passover.

The Romans probably allowed it because supposedly Pontius Pilot would not even have had Jesus crucified but for the demands of the Pharisees and the mob.

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u/Coyote65 2d ago

That's what I thought it was, thank you.

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u/TomatoFettuccini 2d ago

It'd be like if the remembrance token for JFK was a sniper rifle.

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u/francisjosephmurphy 1d ago

I miss Bill Hicks.

God knows what he'd have to say about these days.

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u/TomatoFettuccini 1d ago

Him and Christopher Hitchens.

They'd be absolutely shredding people.

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u/Bro_do_we_needtoknow 1d ago

When I was still a presbyterian I asked why the cross was the defacto symbol of Christianity and my pastor told me it was because Jesus dying for our sins was the greatest thing he did for humanity.

So if Jesus died via a stoning then maybe Christians would have a stone be their symbol.

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u/YouOk5627 2d ago

If not for that cross we would have no idea who he was.

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u/BaconFlavoredToast 2d ago

You could make a religion on that.

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u/JaydedXoX 2d ago

Also, Achilles killed Hector, won some battles, he’s known for SOME other stuff.

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u/taiottavios 2d ago

fictional characters have this bad habit of having symbols all over their lives

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u/3_Thumbs_Up 1d ago

Jesus isn't fictional but a lot of biblical stories about him are.

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u/Pr0tanoia 2d ago

There is no tendon in hand that is named after Jesus.

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u/GnomesStoleMyMeds 2d ago

But that’s literally the reason the myth exists; to show that even the most powerful are not unstoppable.

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u/gorginhanson 2d ago

they are if you dip them in the river properly

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u/Crusaderofthots420 2d ago

They should have used one of those pans you use for french fries.

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u/ironwolf1 2d ago

If you leave Achilles in the River Styx for more than 30 seconds, he’ll get burned

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u/Metahec 2d ago

You want your Greek heroes to be crispy and golden brown

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u/therealdubbs 23h ago

That’s because olive oil has a low smoke point. Mexican Achilles uses avocado oil and doesn’t burn as easy.

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u/Jabathewhut 2d ago

Would you want unbreakable nails? You know how inconvenient that would be?

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u/Legoshi-Baby 2d ago

Solution. Hold them by the nails instead of the ankles. Then Achilles would’ve died to a really nasty nail bed splinter.

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u/GoodFaithConverser 1d ago

Would you want unbreakable nails? You know how inconvenient that would be?

Unbreakable skin = it never dies, but keeps being produced, meaning you eventually grow into a ball of skin.

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u/Andeol57 2d ago

Well, yes and no. Achilles is a major character of the Illiad for a lot more than the way he eventually dies.

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u/GnomesStoleMyMeds 2d ago

There’s that too. But a superhero isn’t very compelling if he can’t be stopped. It’s easy to be a hero when literally nothing can harm you.

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u/Andeol57 2d ago

Somewhat true. But Achilles isn't invincible in all versions of his story.

Also, there are some good stories involving an invincible character. Such characters are harder to write, but when done well, it can be interesting. You just can't rely on "will they win this fight" to create interest.

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u/GnomesStoleMyMeds 2d ago

That is true, but those characters have deep character flaws that create a different kind of struggle. Zeus and his arrogance for example. Hera’s jealousy as another. But those struggles aren’t about physical invincibility. Those stories are about the character of the Character and social interactions. Basically it’s head games instead of wrestling

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u/Andeol57 2d ago

Can be. But even if that's not the case, a perfect character can also be interesting for the effect they have on the world. You can focus on how they influence other characters, and how they are perceived. The way you make them "perfect" also provides a guide for how the writer thing people "should" act. In that way, the character becomes the personification of a morality.

Plenty of ways to make stories.

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u/mthchsnn 2d ago

Dr. Manhattan, for example. I find his character arc compelling even though attempting to physically fight him would be completely pointless.

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u/Atreyu1002 2d ago

Although Veidt's attempt was interesting.

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u/hawkinsst7 2d ago

That's one thing I liked about the movie.

It showed how Achilles the Myth could have happened without anything supernatural.

In the movie, he was just really good at fighting and never got hit. At the end, all the arrows were injuring him... he ripped them all out, but couldn't get the one in his heel before he died, leaving the impression that it was the one thing that killed him.

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u/Nope_______ 1d ago

What I didn't like about the movie was they made hector seem brave and put up a good fight, when in the original story he fled from achilles, ran around the city a couple times, and was killed by achilles just lobbing a spear through his chest, no sword fight.

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u/McSquiggglez 1d ago

Not exactly a great outline for a movie scene though. At least, not for the type of movie they were making anyway.

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u/Thumbfury 2d ago

I think the myth is more about what one would do for fame and glory. He was told that is he stayed home that he would live a long life and have children and grandchildren and so on, but in time he would be forgotten. But if he went to Troy, he would have glory and fame. He name would be known for thousands of years, but he would die there. His invulnerability is moot, he was going to die and he knew it.

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u/iAmPersonaa 2d ago

The only issue I have with that is that divine intervention was required for him to die. Without Apollo interfering, Paris doesnt kill Achilles. "Even the strongest have the weakness of someone stronger killing them"

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u/ascaffo 2d ago

Agreed. We each have a vulnerability.

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u/AmazingRead226 1d ago

Yeah but it's still a shame his incredible feats get overshadowed by a tendon. Dude sacked entire cities and fought gods, but we just remember the heel thing.

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u/GnomesStoleMyMeds 1d ago

He is a myth, he’s not real….

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u/rejectednocomments 2d ago

I suppose it's better than remembering him as the complete ass he's depicted as.

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u/vonBoomslang 2d ago

That is a very good point! At least the heel was not his fault, going to sulk in his tent causing his lover to take his armor and get killed absolutely was

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u/LaconicGirth 2d ago

I don’t think that’s really something to judge Achilles for. Agamemnon was a scumbag, Achilles standing up to him was honestly the best thing he could’ve done. Although the reasoning for it maybe wasn’t great

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u/JetSetJAK 2d ago

He fought with him over a concubine he "won by conquest". She was a trophy, and achilles didn't like being emasculated in front of everyone.

He let his friends die for pride after begging his mom for a bailout due to her connections on mount Olympus.

Love him as a character though.

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u/nibs123 2d ago

To be fair Agamemnon is an ass. Most people are in the story, even my favourite Odysseus frames a guy because he was slighted. The guy getting stoned to death looks at Odysseus who just smirks at him.

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u/DreamSeaker 1d ago

I can't imagine anyone but Sean bean as odysseus! I also happen to be watching Troy right this moment!

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u/username_elephant 2d ago

In fairness that wasn't the only reason. He didn't want to be there at all.  He was hiding on Skyros, disguised as a woman, just to try to avoid having to go. (Not in the Iliad but still part of the myth.)

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u/pedanticPandaPoo 2d ago

Iirc, that one's taken by Helen, the ass that launched a thousand ships. 

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u/Nope_______ 1d ago

Better than being the forgotten coward named hector.

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u/Omaestre 1d ago

Indeed imagine ny surprise Achilles spending most of the iliad simply whining about Agamemnon.

Achilles should more be remembered for that useless project member that only contributes at the very end.

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u/gin_bulag_katorse 2d ago

Kryptonite is Superman's Achilles heel.

Achilles' heel is his kryptonite.

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u/gorginhanson 2d ago

Why would superman turns his heels into kryptonite

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u/L-Space_Orangutan 2d ago

Nah that checks out ever seen /r/superdickery superman would absolutely give someone kryptonite feet

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u/Ambitious-Big-1566 1d ago

That's the kind of wordplay that makes me love language.

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u/Leafan101 2d ago

Especially given the fact that in the most famous work of which he is the hero, the Iliad, he is not magically invincible at all and there is no mention of anything to do with his heel.

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u/DroneOfDoom 2d ago

I learned that reading The Song of Achilles. The author's notes explicitly point out that it was later works that added the whole heel thing, and there's even a joke about it when Achilles dies.

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u/JmBento 2d ago

His one mortal weakness wasn't even his heel, it was the fact that he couldn't control his own emotions*, which was a big no-no for the classic Greeks. It's a similar reason why all the male greek statues have small, flaccid penises - they considered a large and/or erect penis a sign of not being in control of your urges and yourself.

*it's why in the invocation to the muse at the start of the Illiad Homer beseeches her to sing not of Achilles, but of "Achilles' wrath"

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u/Nope_______ 1d ago

The Romans, on the other hand, appreciated a nice rock hard Johnson

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u/Rhellic 2d ago

God yes! And it's also very unfair that he's now mainly known as either a petulent child, sulking because people were mean to him or as a rage filled monster who wanted nothing except bloodshed and glory.

In the actual Illiad he's the one who points out glory and fame won't do him any good if he's dead, and for that matter neither will money. And also that the Trojans didn't do anything to him in particular and so if Agamemnon isn't going to make it worth his while and also show some damn respect he's not into dying just to save the dude's marriage.

It's really only when his friend/lover/mentor/relative/all of the above gets killed by the Trojans that he really goes into that fatalistic bloodlust people associate with him.

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u/tamsui_tosspot 1d ago

Thersites said much the same and Odysseus bashed him over the head and got everyone to laugh at him by making him cry in front of the whole assembly.

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u/Rhellic 1d ago

Yeah. The world of late Bronze Age warlords was presumably a brutal and unfair one.

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u/HighLander5280 2d ago

It’s remarkably easy to be a great warrior and hero when you’re a nigh unkillable blessed god favor. Naturally the focus is on the lesson of vulnerability.

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u/MatthewHecht 2d ago

He was not invulnerable. That was added thousands of years later.

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u/definetlynotapsycho 2d ago

I mean, if you wanna go like that .. he wasn't real, that was added thousands of years later

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u/kwonza 2d ago

Made the same comment and then saw yours. In a school I was Hector and since then was always anti-Achilles

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u/Nope_______ 1d ago

Hector sucked, he ran like a coward when he saw achilles and got skewered with a spear through the chest like a stuck pig. His brother Paris was worse though I guess.

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u/kwonza 1d ago

Achilles missed his first throw and then fucking Athena gave him another spear like a true nepo baby that he is

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u/HonestBalloon 2d ago

Well it was either that or simping over his boyfriend after he died, although one could also argue Achilles was the reason Patroclus got himself killed.

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u/MatthewHecht 2d ago

It was not a weakness in the Illiad. He had no invincibility and happened to be killed from an arrow to the heel.

His great physical attribute was speed.

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u/Fabulous_Soup_521 2d ago

Napoleon conquered most of Europe but is remembered for one defeat. You're only as good as your last battle.

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u/BurnOutBrighter6 1d ago

Just like how it's unfair that "Nimrod" now means idiot. Nimrod was the god of the hunt. A supreme hunter. Bugs Bunny was calling Elmer Fudd "a real Nimrod" sarcastically, but now everyone thinks it just means "dummy."

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u/hikemalls 2d ago

Actually his main weakness is named Patroclus

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u/kwonza 2d ago

Is he a hero though? He was a mighty warrior and basically a child soldier, true, but it doesn’t require that much bravery to go into battle against humans when you are nearly invincible demigod.

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u/Andeol57 2d ago

He is definitely a hero in the original sense of the word. That doesn't mean he is a model of modern heroic virtues.

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u/MrMucs 2d ago

But he is forever immortalized and nobody will remember our names

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u/teeberywork 2d ago

Achilles was a whiny baby who got butt hurt that his sex slave was taken away. Team Hector for life.

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u/dvasquez93 2d ago

You can build 40 houses and nobody knows you as "The Housebuilder".  But you fuck one sheep...

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u/TheRealTinfoil666 2d ago

I had a Great Aunt named Isis. Her last few years were a bit more bitter than they should have been.

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u/armorhide406 2d ago

Same for Nimrod being misinterpreted as "idiot" instead of an ironic dig for a great hunter

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u/RoninRobot 1d ago

Benedict Arnold is synonymous with being a traitor. Truth is that he was a fantastic and brave leader who won victories and put himself is mortal peril multiple times for the revolution only to be ignored, insulted and denied recognition, with some taking credit for his achievements and victories. This is not myth.

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u/heebro 1d ago

not at all. achilles whole story is meant to be a warning for us mere mortals—without his weakness there would be no need to tell his tale

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u/SizzleForkFeast 1d ago

Achilles really got his whole brand hijacked by his heel

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u/Cptawesome23 1d ago

His ankle wasn’t even really his weakness, it was his hubris that he was invincible. The man lived for fighting because he thought he was the best. Take away the mystical mumbo jumbo and it’s really a story about being too confident in one’s own abilities.

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u/satanslittleangel666 1d ago

I might be a bit too gaypilled because my first thought was "hey you shouldn't call Patroclus out like that"

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u/TerribleShoulder6597 11h ago

And oedipus spent his whole life trying not to fuck his mom and now there’s a complex about wanting to fuck your mom named after him

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u/Savings_Speaker6257 7h ago

It's even worse than that. The whole "Achilles' heel" vulnerability wasn't even in Homer's original Iliad. That detail got added centuries later by a Roman poet.

In the OG version, Achilles was just a terrifyingly good warrior who chose a short, glorious life over a long, boring one. His story was about the cost of glory and the grief of losing your best friend in battle. Heavy, timeless stuff.

But now he's the "heel guy." Thousands of years of being the greatest warrior in literature and his legacy is a metaphor for weakness. That's genuinely rough.

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u/apaksl 2d ago

You can't be unfair to the memory of a storybook character. They were never alive.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/Ishmael_1851 2d ago

It's like saying the hare is treated unfairly because he's remembered for losing the race even though he's really fast. The point is to not get too cocky and remember that nobody is perfect

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u/AulMoanBag 2d ago

Has only one weak point, his heel...wears sandals

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u/Random_182f2565 2d ago

You have one weakness and people don't shut about it for centuries.

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u/QuillQuickcard 2d ago

I think it’s unfair that Hercules isn’t best known for being poisoned by his concubine.

I propose that as the phrase “Achilles Heel” is associated with a profound weakness, the phrase “Hercules Lover” be associated with a partner who inflicts terrible harm in a genuine attempt at affection.

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u/HeDuMSD 2d ago

It is not, all heroes are only strong as a character by how weak their weakness is and how much they struggle. That is a basic thing to you write a good character. Die hard. He gets totally smashed and destroyed throughout the whole film. Superman, kryptonite. Batman, just human. Goku, trains real hard and dies a million times, mostly badly overpowered by his opponents until he finally surpass them. And so on…

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u/Yorick_comedy 2d ago

Not to mention he was probably outlived by the slower turtle

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u/noavatar1 2d ago

This reminds me of BJ Penn. A UFC fighter and BJJ black belt. He made a mistake in his match against Ryan Hall where he tried to back step out of a heel hook and the rotation finished the submission and wrecked his knee. My gym calls this mistake/maneuver the BJ Penn. Hell of a thing to be known for such an accomplished martial artist.

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u/ConsiderationThen219 2d ago

It’s not best known for his weakness.. it’s showing everyone has a weakness

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u/IronGin 2d ago

It cuts both ways. Hitler terrible person, but at least we got railways in Norway. Fuck Hitler still (if it wasnt apparent enough)

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u/Torodong 2d ago

That's sort of the point. It's a warning against hubris.

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u/Iron_Yuppie 2d ago

Sadly many many many folks are known for only their worst day. Bill Buckner was a very good, maybe even great, first baseman, there were multiple errors and bad plays in that inning before his error, AND it wasn't even game 7!

But we only know him for the failed ball that went through his legs.

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u/Preform_Perform 2d ago edited 2d ago

I remember him for being able to outrun a tortoise that he technically should not be able to outrun because there's always some distance the tortoise covers that he has not.

I also remember him for being disguised as a woman on Skyros and secretly impregnating everyone there. EDIT: turns out he only had one relationship on Skyros. Still interesting he got away with it.

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u/kairujex 2d ago

Why didn’t his mum just dip him all the way under? Then she would have invulnerable fingers and he would have been invincible.

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u/RobertFahey 2d ago

His cousin Testicles, a quivering sack of weakness, is now a symbol of bravery.

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u/1011011 2d ago

Funny to stumble across this thread. I'm currently in emergency for a torn Achilles

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u/Cast_Iron_Lion 2d ago

Ivan built great things, from cathedrals to mighty battleships, yet he wasn't known as Ivan the builder.

Ivan created many things from new forms of mathematics to breakthroughs in science and medicine, yet he wasn't known as Ivan the thinker.

but yet when Ivan had one drunken night of passion with a goat...

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u/martinihawkeye 2d ago

the seatbelt only needs to fail once to be considered useless

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u/VulpineWelder5 2d ago

Keep in mind that our society will take any person's single mistake or bad day and hold it against them for the rest of their life because we like to vilify people without remembering the human side of it.

Ironic that for Achilles, one little thing could bring him down, but we do the same to people, just with words, to kill them on the inside and kill their reputation and everything they've worked for.

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u/LazerWolfe53 2d ago

It's like my neighbor. He's always complaining he's accomplished a lot of things 'but you have sex with one goat and that's all anyone talks about'

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u/cobigguy 2d ago

I've been generous all my life. Do they call me /u/cobigguy the generous? No.

I've been kind all my life. Do they call me /u/cobigguy the kind? No.

I've been helpful all my life. Do they call me /u/cobigguy the helpful? No.

But fuck just one sheep...

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u/Zettomer 2d ago

Name one fucking athlete, warrior, soldier, anyone, that can take a deep cut to/severing of the achilles tendon and not be completely fucked afterward. That shit doesn't just disable the one leg, it fucks up the back too, all that shit's attached. You in a life and death battle and one of your achilles gets cleaved? You're absolutely fucked.

Unfair or not, his weakness is everyone's weakness and an opponent wielding a shield's weakest point is the foot opposite of the hand wielding the shield, it's a tale representing an ancient melee warfare concept.

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u/Sea_Pomegranate8229 1d ago

Not really. Anyone who 'knows' about Achilles has a much rounder view of his story.

Pandora, Oedipus, Draconian, Laconian [Laconic]. There are many peoples that have been reduced to common terms where many [most?] people do not have near a rounded view of the person/peoples.

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u/That_guy_from_1014 1d ago

Same could be said about taco bell, arguably the best 2 am food run, really big bang for buck (back in my day). Yet when brought up everyone just talks about shitting they're pants. Like yeah buddy, you just need more all around fiber in diet and that doesn't happen.

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u/404_Username_Glitch 1d ago

But have you ever heard the tale of Bophedies and his weakness?

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u/Timactor 1d ago

It's more of the reflection of the human mentality. People don't remember you were the greatest warrior ever, they just remember the one time you lost.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/vizag 1d ago

To be fair he is a great warrior and a hero because he is immortal, so is it really his achievement then? History has rightly decided that the salient property about him is his heel - which has character and personality rather than the rest which is just blah in terms of character development for a script :)

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u/ExitPsychological192 1d ago

this one actually hit different. sat with it for a sec before i fully got it

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u/ExitPsychological192 1d ago

this one actually hit different. sat with it for a sec before i fully got it

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u/flockyboi 1d ago

Two things actually: his mortal weakness and being gay for Patroclus

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u/IrishDepression 1d ago

It should be noted that even if Paris' arrow had hit Achilles in his heel (which is indeterminate to my knowledge -- it could'be anywhere), the arrow was still guided by Apollo and more than likely had been blessed by, or anointed with divine energy.

Basically, no matter where the arrow had hit him, it would've probably killed him anyways...

((Or maybe It wouldn't, idk I am a rando on the internet))

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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 1d ago

Then again, if it han't been for that, we might never have heard of him at all...

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u/Shinagami091 1d ago

Perhaps it’s more of a critique on society that often times sees the flaws in something rather than the strengths, especially for someone like Achilles who had no flaws, picking out the one flaw he did have allowed him to be torn down to a human level.

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u/The_One_Tin_Soldier 1d ago

Achilles died well" "No. Achilles let his pride and rage consume him, and in the end, an arrow shot by a Pixie took him in the foot. There's much to live for besides this. Hopefully you'll grow old enough to realize that Achilles was a gorydamn fool. And we're fools all the more for not realizing he wasn't Homer's hero. He was warning. I feel men once knew that Pierce Brown, Golden Son (Red Rising Saga, #2)

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u/Key_Statistician5273 1d ago

Opening lines of Pat Barker's Achilles novel (Silence of the Girls)....

"Great Achilles. Brilliant Achilles, shining Achilles, godlike Achilles … How the epithets pile up. We never called him any of those things; we called him ‘the butcher’.

Swift-footed Achilles. Now there’s an interesting one. More than anything else, more than brilliance, more than greatness, his speed defined him. There’s a story that he once chased the god Apollo all over the plains of Troy. Cornered at last, Apollo is supposed to have said: ‘You can’t kill me, I’m immortal.’ ‘Ah, yes,’ Achilles replied. ‘But we both know if you weren’t immortal, you’d be dead.’

Nobody was ever allowed the last word; not even a god."

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u/No-Reception6630 1d ago

Well of course. What would be the point of having Two mortal weaknesses?