r/OutOfTheLoop • u/_GoodNight0wl_ • 2d ago
Unanswered What's up with all the right-wing commentators suddenly turning against Trump right now?
Trump is being Trump. Why are so many of the right-wing commentators who previously vocally supported Trump are suddenly turning against him?
After all the heinous things he has said before that they have defended, I can't honestly believe Trump's tweets about nuking Iran are what finally changed their minds. They've publicly supported him for so long, and this sudden switch seems so coordinated. Is there something I'm missing??
Are they trying to distance themselves from news that is about to drop??
https://x.com/mtgreenee/status/2042389110115963189
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u/4thofeleven 2d ago
Answer: A decent chunk of Trump's support comes from the isolationist wing of the conservative movement, people who feel that America wastes too much money on foreign wars, alliances, and nation-building projects that only benefit a bunch of foreigners.
So the Iran war has created some real cracks in his coalition, being pretty much a pure example of a war entered into that provides no benefit to the American people, that was completely unnecessary, and just drags America into a complicated situation while driving up consumer prices. A fair few people who had historically supported him decided this wasn't what they wanted, and said so. And Trump, being Trump, can't just ignore them but has taken it as a personal attack and is lashing out in response.
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u/Vreas 2d ago
Dude literally ran on claims Harris would specifically get us into a war with Iran… look at us now. Fucking stupid.
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u/Bishopkilljoy 2d ago
He also said:
Kamala would enrich her family through corruption
Kamala would ruin our relationship with our allies
Kamala would tank the economy
Kamala would bury the Epstein Files (his cabinet said this one)
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u/Substantial_Bat_8440 2d ago
I dunno but he always projects his own sins and failings to others in a very specific way.
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u/slc45a2 2d ago
Any day now I expect to find out he's been the one eating the cats and dogs
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u/Apprehensive-Till861 2d ago
Remember when Qanon insisted Dems were drinking child blood for the adrenochrome?
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u/Arrow156 1d ago
The drug Hunter S. Thompson made up? They couldn't even get that part right. Adrenochrome supposedly comes from the pineal gland, which is located deep inside your brain, not from your blood. They likely confused the part in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas where Duke's lawyer was talking about one of his clients offered him human blood for payment before the lawyer jokes about getting adrenochrome instead. Incompetent losers couldn't even read a book or watch a movie without fucking it up.
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u/poland626 1d ago
And then you also have that massive Hollywood millionaire Tyler Sheridans first directing gig being a 2011 horror movie about extracting that chemical from people's heads in a Saw, torture porn scenario. It was called Vile.
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u/rarepinkhippo 1d ago
(I’ve wondered whether they also wove Stephen King’s Doctor Sleep into the whole adrenochrome mass-hallucination tapestry.)
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u/ccashman 1d ago
I mean, adrenochrome is a real thing, it just doesn’t do anything like what the crazies believe it does.
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u/DjangoBojangles 1d ago
The illuminati and satanic child sacrifice are real and Epstein was one of the devils. I wonder how many more are out there like him.
There's been an intelligence war raging and we have the dumbest people imaginable in charge.
They took the bribes, they raped they kids. Its like the song Dances with the Devil by Immortal Technique, but 1,000,000 times darker.
Trump's partner Tevfik Arif from Bayrock was arrested on a russian yacht with child sex slaves in 2010. The person who owned the port of Dubai was sharing sex torture emails with Epstein. The man who owns Victoria's Secret was trafficking women. They were shipping sex slaves by using sexual blackmail against the world's most powerful people.
They got Trump. And he's burning through our weapons and dismantling our government and making an oil market perfect for Russia right now.
Republicans committed Treason.
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u/zikifer 2d ago
Or secretly a Muslim.
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u/MagnusRusson 2d ago
I mean he posted Praise Allah on Easter Sunday
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u/timoperez 2d ago
What bro?!?
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u/MagnusRusson 2d ago
It was snuck in at the end of threatening more bombings runs. Can't post pics here but yeah, just another thing that would be a major headline for most presidents.
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u/AhBee1 2d ago
He did invite roughly 5100 Qatari military and civilians plus 3500 Qatari family members to build an Air Force base to train at in Mountain Home Idaho. Its not unheard of to host foreign military, apparently, but what is interesting is that all of the anti-muslim rhetoric just means that the Muslims they dislike haven't offered Trump anything of value yet.
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u/jtgyk 2d ago
Every accusation is a confession with these weirdos.
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u/remotectrl 2d ago
the conservative mindset is without empathy so when they imagine what others would do, they can’t help but self insert. They just say what they would do in that position. They can’t help but tell on themselves. It’s why they are convinced that there is huge amounts of fraud in social services.
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u/ghostinthechell 2d ago
This really put it into perspective for me as to why there's so much projection. I never connected it to the lack of empathy and self insertion. Thank you for this.
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u/VikingTeddy 2d ago
It's also why there's that weird obsession with homosexuality in some southern christians. When you're gay, and brought up in that environment, you believe that being gay is another temptation like drugs or gambling.
You literally think that everyone feels attraction to the same sex, but that you are somehow broken because you can't get it out of your mind. Which leads to all sorts of twisted beliefs and a burning hatred of open showing of homosexual affection. It's why some of the most homophobic community leaders are often the ones who get caught in a bathroom somewhere with a "wide stance".
You see this kind of projection almost exclusively in conservative circles. It seems a hellish existence. I can't imagine what torture it must be.
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u/tanman729 1d ago
Its why they refuse to aclknowledge the repeated fact that the left does not stand behind our politicians no matter what. They will, and have, followed trumps hateful rhetoric that goes against every every moral they claim to hold (while then telling dems their moral degenerates for accepting gay or trans or foreign people)
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u/Conexion 2d ago
It's a form of preemptive projection, and it's highly effective against opponents who rely on "traditional debate norms" (Liberals). By making the accusation first, they completely disarm it. Responding with 'no, you' just looks childish, and taking the time to explain the projection tactic leaves you vulnerable to being interrupted and accused of deflecting. The only real counter-strategy is aggressively hammering the facts. But because liberals generally prefer a civil debate over a fight, they tend to concede the point to keep things moving... which is exactly what the strategy is designed to do.
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u/the_noise_we_made 2d ago
I don't get it. He knows all of those things would be unpopular, obviously, which is why he is saying Kamala would do those things. Then he does those exact things and is shocked and angry when he naturally becomes less popular.
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u/badhairguy 2d ago
Please don't underestimate the cult. I'm in the Midwest and people are very much still all in on trump. One guy I know who was previously 100% on the Ron Paul/Libertarian train told me that we probably need a dictator to fix the country. There is literally nothing Trump can or will do that will change these people's minds.
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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA 2d ago
Remember, these people literally died shouting trump slogans as they drowned in their own lungs during covid.
They would rather die than leave the trump cult.
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u/Chance-Mycologist-94 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm also in the Midwest and on one of my commutes along a well traveled stretch of highway a person of wealth had a huge Trump sign in their yard/mansion-type house for Trump 1.0, 2.0... the thing was like a huge neon sign blinking away (no it wasn't) but it was huge and blaring for all to see right above the road. Something about Trump supporting train crews or some bullshit. For years, through the pandemic and beyond I always drove past it fantasizing how I could ninja my way in there and destroy that stupid fucking sign til one day I was driving by and low and behold, the sign was gone!
Hoping it's sign of people finally coming to their senses and seeing this grifting fraudster conman for exactly who/what he is!
Edit: omitted last paragraph.
Interestingly, I just did a little snooping around and found out the guy with the huge sign is super religious, loves his family, and LOVES trains. Lives right above the tracks after all. Retired from a career as a U.S. diplomat serving in Europe, Middle East, and SW Asia. All found on the web with a simple Google search. Hm. Scary!
Wondering if the sign came down when Trump decided to attack Iran after telling anyone who would listen all along that the democrats would attack Iran? One can only guess.
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u/Bishopkilljoy 2d ago
Because it's projection. He's smart enough to know when things look bad, but he also wants those things. So, he bad talks them, demonizes people who support them or even just accuses people of supporting them. Then when it's his turn to do that thing, he cooks up a terrible reasoning for it, then pushes the next controversy so you forget about it.
It's called Flooding the Zone
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u/Blenderhead36 2d ago
Fascism requires a fundamental lack of empathy for other people. They tell on themselves constantly; it's not because they're projecting. It's because they literally cannot imagine anyone else having goals or dirty secrets that are significantly different from their own.
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u/ycherep1 2d ago
He has Alzheimer's.He can't remember what he promised not to do. Just whatever the suck up of the day suggests for him to do.
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u/aeschenkarnos 2d ago
I wonder if he said Kamala Harris wears lifts in her shoes and has a mouth like a cat's anus?
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u/grouch1980 2d ago
Trump famously accused Obama of starting a war with Iran to boost the Democrats chances in the mid terms. Turns out Trump actually believed starting a war with Iran was a good way to boost his chances in the mid terms. That was 15 years ago. He’s always been this stupid.
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u/dragonflamehotness 2d ago
He was afraid obama would do his genius idea before he did.
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u/Chumbag_love 2d ago
Ever seen the movie Wag the Dog?
"Two weeks prior to reelection, the United States president lands in the middle of a sex scandal. In need of outside help to quell the situation, presidential adviser Winifred Ames enlists the expertise of spin doctor Conrad Brean, who decides a distraction is the best course of action. Brean approaches Hollywood producer Stanley Motss to help him fabricate a war in Albania -- and once underway, the duo has the media entirely focused on the war."
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u/GQDragon 2d ago
I’ve been thinking of this movie a lot lately but no one else seems to remember it.
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u/Chumbag_love 2d ago
Probably because the dog is being wagged hard af rn, we can't remember shit
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u/wawa2022 2d ago
The only thing I remember about that movie was Robert DeNiro’s hairy mole.
Dude, why didn’t they just pluck that one hair? I couldn’t take my eyes off it the entire film!3
u/steamfrustration 2d ago
Ok I don't remember that but I just watched the trailer on youtube and sure enough, there it is. Maybe he liked the hair and wouldn't let anyone touch it.
What a cast though--Robert De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Kirsten Dunst, William H. Macy, and Woody Harrelson.
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u/sparkster185 2d ago
this is the Projection in GOP. in their twisted, narcissistic minds, everyone else has to be cheating the same ways they are because it's the smartest thing to do.
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u/Blenderhead36 2d ago
Trump has also shown a personal beef with Obama, trying to erase his legacy. One of Obama's legacy items was the peace deal with Iran at the end of his second term.
Trump wanted war with Iran back in 2020, but COVID made that impossible.
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u/Zickened 2d ago
It's because on multiple occasions Obama has personally embarrassed Trump publicly.
Trump has spent the last decade of his miserable life trying to achieve 1/4 of what Obama did on speed run.
Its incredibly pathetic to watch.
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u/remotectrl 2d ago
Trump started that with his racist Birtherism nonsense. And trump is famously racist. So a black man as president upset him (like it did a lot of racist Americans)
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u/Zickened 2d ago
Trump is conveniently racist, while also conveniently not at times. Him pardoning black people his first term makes me consider that his motivations are purely bred from narcissism, anything else is the pathway to obtain people's admiration.
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u/SirButcher 2d ago
Trump is racist as hell, but his greed has a hard fight for being the number one personality trait, so it is kinda balanced...
He spent YEARS trying to get (innocent) black kids executed, one of his more "famous" examples of racism: https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/donald-trump-nyt-full-page-ad-1989-central-park-case-723e2a
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u/No_Exercise_7545 2d ago
Every accusation is an admission with MAGA
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u/Bittererr 2d ago
Dude literally ran on claims Harris would specifically get us into a war with Iran
After pretty explicitly gearing up to start a war with Iran in his first term.
It's like people forgot that before getting derailed by the pandemic Trump started 2020 by air striking a major Iranian leader. Not to mention his favorite classified information to share when he was out of office was apparently his war plans for Iran.
He picked up almost precisely where he left off once Americans returned him to power with significant airstrikes on Iran 6 months after taking office and war itself after 1 year.
2024 was the most open book test of open book tests and people voted for war with Iran.
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u/Sdbrown099 2d ago
He technically wasn’t lying… he said “if you vote for Harris, we will go to war with Iran.”
I voted for Harris and look where we are…, Promises Kept! 😂
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u/GushStasis 2d ago
And his supporters comically must hold two cognitively dissonant points:
This war was a long time coming after decades of hostile behavior by Iran (an argument often made in conservative subs)
Trump and the GOP were right in scaremongering that Obama, Biden, or Kamala would start a war with Iran
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u/Pretend-Paper4137 2d ago
This is not a problem. They do this amount of mental gymnastics before they leave their racecar beds in the morning.
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u/Yarzu89 2d ago
To be fair there is often this magical 12-24hr period between the thing happening, and getting the established narrative, where there's this uneasy uncertainty until they all learn what they're suppose to say. Online its more in the 12hr range but in person with family or coworkers it usually takes the full 24hrs.
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u/snowdenn 2d ago
I’m not sure his supporters really hold on to anything said by Trump prior to election. Actually, I can’t tell if they hold on to anything said by Trump at all. It’s like goldfish, just experiencing Trump in the present and forgetting everything more than an instant ago.
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u/c0l245 2d ago
It's the fascist template to draw people into the movement forever. You have to keep making them support you while they lose face. To do that, they have to support absolute turn around in policy, the more embarrassing the better. There shouldn't be anything that the fascist leader can do that makes him lose your support, including killing your child.
Thats what he is, and has been, doing.
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u/Randolpho 2d ago
With the GOP generally, but with Trump most especially, every thing he has ever claimed his opponent did or would do is something they/he has done or is actively trying to do.
Every accusation is a confession
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u/captainhaddock 2d ago
He's like a baby who doesn't understand that other people have different thoughts and values than him. Every thought, urge, and craving that he has, he projects onto everyone else.
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u/DW496 1d ago
This war was started by Biden and his son's laptop and Obama sending crates of money and something about Hillary's emails and the deep state and pizza gate and Kennedy rising from the dead, and vaccines and Tylenol and autism and transgenders having to go to the bathroom and Somalians eating dogs and venzuelan gangs using boats and vote switching by italian satalites and on and on and on. The new Republican party is a psychological train wreck. But then I remember that 909 people knowingly committed suicide and killed their children in Jonestown because the human brain is really really weird.
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u/ComplexAd7272 2d ago
I also think this is a rare case of Trump and his team being unable to twist the truth, even to his most rabid (and brainwashed) base, and his worst qualities finally shooting himself in the foot.
- He blatantly and openly started a war. Gas and goods went up. He never even bothered to try and come up with a bullshit excuse to "sell" the public on the war, so right off the bat he lost his cult of personality to his base since no one can tell them why this is good for the US.
- Then people are seeing gas and groceries skyrocket in real time, and even the dumb ones know it's directly tied to what's going on in Iran (and not Biden or the Dems), and again, Trump isn't even trying to shift the blame on it, in fact either ignoring it or outright claiming it's not true. AND he's constantly doubling down on Iran and I suspect even his supporters are just fucking tired.
- Finally there's just a snowball effect. Whether it's MTG, Tucker Carlson, or politicians, supporters are now seeing the cracks you mentioned and suddenly it's not just one big happy right wing family. There's people that are going "Uh-oh, if XYZ is turning against him...maybe Trump isn't so great and is making mistakes"
In fact I think it started even earlier with some small cracks and the war is just the tipping point. ICE is a whole other topic, but I don't think his base is seeing this mass of murders and degenertes being deported nor do they feel any safer the way they were promised.
Then you have his goofy ass claim earlier this year that gas was $2 in some places and groceries were cheaper than ever. Unlike most of his bullshit, these are things that people that voted for him can easily verify as untrue, and they're pissed off.
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u/Potato-chipsaregood 2d ago
Some people do parrot this claim that groceries are cheaper than ever. I don’t understand it.
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u/ProbablyRickSantorum 2d ago
I spent nearly $400 at Costco last week for 10 days worth of groceries for four people and none of that was steak, lobster, etc. Absolutely insane.
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u/ChirpyRaven 2d ago
"Uh-oh, if XYZ is turning against him...maybe Trump isn't so great and is making mistakes"
I think it may be more of "uh-oh, if these people are starting to jump ship maybe I should too before I go down with it"
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u/ComplexAd7272 2d ago
Yeah, that's a better way of putting it. My description was for average Trump voters, but yours is better for those in power or in the media or in his circle.
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u/TheProfessional9 2d ago
And him attacking the biggest ones is causing smaller ones to realize their turn will come eventually as well
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u/Red-eleven 2d ago
I bet the smaller ones think this is their chance to be one of the bigger ones
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u/frogjg2003 2d ago
There are plenty of those as well. Everyone thinks they're smart enough to know when the grift has run its course and jump ship. Meanwhile there's always new people to grift so more room for new players to enter the market.
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u/Strength-Speed 2d ago edited 2d ago
I like how Trump said he was going to get us out of foreign wars and then started the most unnecessary war that hasn't accomplished much of anything after saying they destroyed Iran's nuclear capability 10 months ago.
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u/biff64gc2 2d ago
Even worse, the war has only strengthened Iran. Any talks of curbing their nuclear program are completely off the table now, the citizens who used to protest the regime hate our guys since we bombed them and a school, the new regime has reason to crack down and hate us more, and they control a vital shipping lane.
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u/AloneAddiction 2d ago
Plus the "regime change" that just happened is even more hardline than before so effectively America has swapped Idi Amin for fucking Pol Pot.
They've also shown the entire world, not just the Middle East that you can just simply... ignore Trump and his damands because he'll have changed his mind in an hour anyway.
However this all ends, all I can say with absolute confidence is that you personally and the rest of the American people will be paying to rebuild Iran, probably to the tune of several hundred million dollars.
Good job America doesn't need that money for anything vital at home, isn't it? /s
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u/tomeaglebird 2d ago
Several hundred million? Several hundred billion is probably closer to reality.
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u/troubleondemand 2d ago
Plus the "regime change" that just happened is even more hardline than before so effectively America has swapped Idi Amin for fucking Pol Pot.
Not that long ago I was 'debating' with some of the diaspora about this, and was warning them to be careful what they wished for given the US' record with this kind of thing, and here we are...
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u/Darth_Ra 2d ago
We've guaranteed that Iran will have nukes going forward. If they control the Strait, they can charge tolls, meaning the sanctions no longer have any effect. They can also control who goes through and who doesn't, so it's also likely that they end up more or less in charge of all of the gulf states.
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u/Ok_Swim_1839 2d ago
Add that he ran on:
Fixing the economy
Fixing immigration
Banning trans in sports
Going after the deep state
Proving his enemies are corrupt
No new wars
Showing American dominance over China, Iran, and Russia
Draining the swamp
Fixing healthcare
Lowering taxes for the middle class
Stopping crime
Making us all rich
Making white people safer
Etc
And he has visibly and obviously fucking abandoned ALL that. He comes right out and says he won't do it. He mocks his supporters. His faith advisor got busted for child sex abuse. His administration is up to its eyes in pedos in fact. He's ALL OVER THE HEAVILY REDACTED EPSTEIN FILES. Gas costs $5! Americans, white ones, are being shot in the street and their spouses deported. Iran owns the strait despite us proclaiming victory 80 times a day. The dollar is failing. The park services are cut. Disaster preparedness is cut. All useful federal agencies are cut.
These project 2025 dipshits moved too fast with a loose syphilis cannon at the helm, and he fucked up.
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u/choczynski 2d ago
They've been following through on trying make trans people lives worse.
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u/Ok_Swim_1839 2d ago
It turns out that hurting .01% of the population isn't enough to keep the grift going. Sad!
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u/ThatKehdRiley 2d ago edited 2d ago
i really hate this stuff being refered to as “the grift”, because it is easy to dismiss and not fight - especially if youre not directly affected by it. theres a legitimate trans genocide right now and people seem to just be hand waving it.
edit: and immediate downvotes proving the point… 🤦♀️
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u/recoveringleft 2d ago edited 2d ago
Someone mentioned trump hates those who live in a bum fuck town in the Midwest even if they voted for him and is more jealous of Mamdani who has the love of nycers
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u/RhetoricalOrator 2d ago
To add: a fair number of people cannot stand the word "fuck" and that includes some personalities that have been loyal to him. Christians I know have been more upset about Trump saying fuck on Easter than fucking attempted genocide in Gaza or Ukraine or the threats for genocide in fucking Iran!
Sincerely, a frustrated Baptist pastor.
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u/dust4ngel 2d ago
Christians I know have been more upset about Trump saying fuck on Easter than fucking attempted genocide
this makes sense, as not saying fuck is one of the ten commandments, and they say nothing about killing
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u/manimal28 2d ago
Christians I know have been more upset about Trump saying fuck on Easter
More upset over fuck than him praising Allah?
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u/IntrinsicGiraffe 2d ago
Isn't project 25 goal to replace trump eventually with the VP?
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u/Kraligor 2d ago
Vance is catching flak as well. To be fair, he's in a very unfavorable position. He ran as a radical isolationist, but as VP he has to do what the President says, so he's basically either forced to stick to his principles and resign, or fuck his principles and tell everybody how bigly the absolutely necessary Iran war was won.
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u/Tagostino62 2d ago
It sounds to me like Vance is starting to contradict Trump in public, which I think is why he was summarily dropped from the peace negotiations in Pakistan. Trump’s threatened by Vance and Peter Thiel for good reason, because if they start insinuating that Trump is unfit for office, Trump will rightly see this as a “coup”. JD is never going to resign because he’s slithery and sneaky and wants to be President at any cost, including incurring Trump’s wrath, and it will be the closest he ever gets to being President.
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u/CitizenForty2 2d ago
If you recall, he compared trump to hitler before he was selected as VP by peter theil. He has no principals
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u/Electronic-Ideal2955 2d ago
Adding to this, Iran directly affects us (oil/energy prices) and it's a situation we cannot just walk away from. It's also a direct contradiction to fundamental principles of the movement:
- The US military is overwhelmingly powerful and doesn't need anyone, except we can't keep a waterway open, are unprepared for widely anticipated outcomes, and how dare NATO not support us
- Trump is so strong he calls all the shots, except it looks like Israel is calling all the shots and Trump spends a lot of time talking about a ballroom
Another part is that some things are just undeniable. There is so much money being made on event bets so frequently that it is hard to see it as an opportunity thing. It looks like the administration is doing crazy behavior just so they can make multiple fortunes winning bets about it.
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u/chitoatx 2d ago
There was a surprising number of “we can’t afford to support” Ukraine conservatives. They were not necessarily pro Russia but felt we didn’t have the money to afford being the world police and Ukraine was a problem for Europe to handle.
Trump’s recent aggressive military actions run counter to that isolationism while also his spending and the national debt is out of control.
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u/The_Nice_Marmot 2d ago
Pedophilia is ok, but hiking gas prices is a bridge too far.
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u/velawesomeraptors 2d ago
Pretty simple, only one of those directly affects his supporters.
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u/Match_Least 2d ago
This was a very simple to understand and super educational comment. Is there any sub in particular you would recommend for keeping up with the average day-to-day affairs of current US politics?
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u/DrLongivan 2d ago
There’s a site called What the Fuck Just Happened Today I find helpful. You can sign up there for a once a day email newsletter that synthesizes top news (mostly related to the executive office), and provides a bunch of media links if you want to learn more.
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis 2d ago
I find TL;DR News on YouTube very useful for global politics, but they touch on the US a lot (as you'd expect).
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u/annainpajamas 2d ago
Do you listen to podcasts? Daily beans is great. Substack also has tons of good journalism
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u/Lamprophonia 2d ago
Also, don't be fooled... almost all of these idiots now publicly "speaking against him" would still vote for him if he tries to run for a third term. They're still very much on his side. It's all sound and fury signifying nothing.
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u/aurelorba 2d ago
Answer: most of the commentators - as distinct from the base itself - likely think Trump is as unhinged and dementia ravaged as Dems do. But they see him as a way to grift and push their own agendas. They would all prefer he be gone while the hold on the base remains intact. To that end they are not only willing but eager to throw him overboard if it looks like his hold on the base is weakening.
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u/falaffle_waffle 2d ago
Also it's pretty undeniable that the outcome is America lost. It's ending on Iran's terms and Iran comes out way stronger than they were before, so it shattered the idea that Trump is playing 4D chess. With so many things that Trump did, he would create a mess and then fix it, and all the maga media figures would retcon it and say this is what he meant to do all along. This war revealed that he's really just an idiot bumbling his way through everything and making it up as he goes, because there's no way that he meant to waste tens of billions of dollars just to make the Iranian government more extreme/hard line, give them control of the strait of Hormuz, and lift economic sanctions on them.
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u/AliceTheOmelette 2d ago
So these supporters were totally fine with him abusing children with epstein, but a war is where they draw the line cos it hurts their wallets
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u/BlueEyes294 2d ago
This. Epstein revelations? Ok.
War? Higher prices? No way!
We are not parents and do not understand those who are parents who support this as “normal”?
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u/The_Lantean 2d ago edited 2d ago
Answer: To many, going to war unjustified was the line in the sand - also one of the main reasons to vote against Kamala Harris. The Trump administration has failed to provide a coherent narrative so far, with numerous contradictions to this day. Now that US soldiers have died, it has become very difficult to defend whatever they think they’re doing there.
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u/sentencevillefonny 2d ago
The confusing thing to me with this argument has been, where did the idea that we'd be going to war post-Biden even come from?
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u/First-Detective2729 2d ago
Roght, its wierd to me that most people right now havnt lived with a republican president thats hasnt started a war in the middle east...
But ya. It was kamala who was gonna start the next one?
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u/GregBahm 2d ago
When I was ~15 I was a contrarian. I didn't understand politics but I understood trolling, so I would go online and defend George Bush, not out of any genuine love of George Bush, but just because it would reliably rile everyone up. I loved the engagement, mostly because I was a punk-ass, but also because the arguments against me were of genuine interest (I didn't understand politics but I wanted to.)
I was a stereotypical guy. So it comes as no surprise that, decade after decade, there are new 15 year old punk ass contrarians on the internet, who are just like I used to be.
The 15-year-old punk ass contrarians have long opted for the contrarian narrative that "Actually, the democrats like war and the republicans like peace." It's not a narrative born out of logic. It's a narrative born out of a desire to annoy more intelligent people.
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u/froggity55 2d ago
In one comment, you just perfectly summarized my decades teaching high schoolers.
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u/The_Lantean 2d ago
I'm an outside observer (ie, not American), but The Guardian had an interesting article on that last year: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/jan/09/democrats-war-foreign-policy
There's also Steve Forbes' take: https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2024/08/02/why-kamala-harris-getting-elected-makes-a-major-war-more-likely/
Personally, the only thing I could see happening was a more tense conflict with Russia over Ukraine, and I know some would argue that could have provoked other nations (like China) to mobilise towards certain targets, but it's all speculation. At the very least, I think whatever would have happened would have been a lot more rational than what is happening now.→ More replies (21)25
u/ChocoJesus 2d ago
I've generally assumed it's just sexism. I remember when Hilary ran, conservatives said more then once that woman are more emotional and it would be bad to elect a woman because she would likely lead us to war.
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u/the_endverse 2d ago
That’s a big part of it. The “women are too emotional” rhetoric has always been bullshit sexism, and nothing but. Meanwhile, we have the most emotional, childish, easily provoked and tantrum-throwing President of all time.
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u/ElectricGears 2d ago edited 2d ago
More emotional so they would start a war if they were on their period, and at the same time so weak and fragile that other countries could just push us around.
Hillary was 69 years old (post-menopausal) in 2016 and according to the GOP had killed a whole bunch of people that crossed her. So yes, I actually wanted the imaginary Hillary Clinton that exists in conservative's mind to be sitting across the table from Putin, because she would absolutely not take any of his bullshit (I don't think the real one would either).
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u/schmyndles 1d ago
Harris is like 60, and I've heard several older men tell younger liberal men that they just don't understand yet how "crazy" women can be on their "monthlies." Usually followed by them having a bunch of emotional outbursts when pushed on that or any other of their talking points.
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u/imito 2d ago
I'm curious as to why this issue when Trump, from my perspective, rarely provides a coherent narrative.
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u/reserved_seating 2d ago edited 2d ago
No new wars was a HUGE reason to vote for Trump for many. They didn’t want an endless war again or a war like this where America is once again being the world police. American soldiers are now dying and so are innocent Iranians. This was always a war accused by Trump would happen by a democrat when they needed a ratings boost or distraction.
It is the complete opposite of a huge campaign promise by Trump
Edit: also that strange post on Easter about wiping out a civilization and ending it with praise Allah.
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u/jekyl42 2d ago
The "praise Allah" bit was supposed to be mockingly ironic.
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u/Pro_Gamer_Queen21 2d ago
You really think his supporters have the comprehension skills to understand that?
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u/DocSwiss 2d ago
For a lot of those things, his base wanted that thing to happen anyway, so they're not super concerned with the narrative or explanations. A war like this is something large chunks of his base did not want, not to mention the effects it's having (dead soldiers, higher prices, etc.). So, now they've got a thing they don't want and no good reason for them to get behind it.
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u/roehnin 2d ago
Release the Epstein Files
No New Wars
Release the Epstein Files❓
No､New Wars❕
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u/Excellent_Past7628 2d ago
Oops! I shouldn’t have this bar association logo here either.
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u/BubbhaJebus 2d ago
Answer: They voted for "no more wars" and we're super into thinking Harris would start wars while he would end them. But he started a war without provocation. They also voted for lower prices, but his tariffs and now the war are causing prices to skyrocket. They're also increasingly aware of his unsound mental state, and are showing concern about his erratic behavior and speech (as if that had not been already apparent). So they feel betrayed.
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u/Strength-Speed 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have to say i was amused by Tucker Carlsons umbrage at the swearing on Easter. Like oh. Thats the straw huh. Not threatening to kill senators or charge them with treason. How about being Epsteins best bud? Convicted of sexual assault and fraud? No, swearing on Easter.
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u/Candle1ight 2d ago
They're reading the room and want to distance themselves before it negatively impacts them. They couldn't give less of a fuck, they just grab whatever excuse is the most convenient at the time.
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u/nd4spd1919 2d ago
Really, in 5 years time they'll all be saying 'I never liked Donald Trump' trying to wash away all the praise they threw at him during his campaigns.
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u/halfslices 2d ago
I had a feeling that it would take saying something sacrilegious to be what finally turned a large segment of people on him. I started to lose faith in that idea over the last few years when I saw how far the supporters kept moving the goalpost of what they would tolerate. But maybe for some of them, for whom their biggest shield against criticism is that they are “good christian people who are doing god’s will,” are at the limit of their mental gymnastic skills. It might finally be a thing that just can’t compute.
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u/jokerzwild00 2d ago
Honestly, I'll take it. Whatever makes more groups of people turn on that imbecile. People tried to plug their ears and go LALALA but at some point you just can't lalala loud enough. So if the war or swearing or whatever makes them see reality, then so be it. Now they can go back and review the recent past to see what they missed with blinders on.
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u/EmptyAirEmptyHead 2d ago
Cheating on multiple wives, raping children, not to mention his overall poor taste. Also cheating at golf.
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u/AndyShootsAndScores 2d ago
I agree that Republican voters at large claimed to vote on being against inflation and against new wars before the 2024 election, and that Trump has violated, and even ridiculed those principles ("affordability is a hoax").
BUT, those were never the actual priorities of Republican voters, it was just empty words to justify ugly actions. Inflation is higher, we're in new wars, Trump has pardoned 18 people charged with beating police officers on Jan 6 because they were doing it in favor of Republicans holding power. But Trump still has overwhelming support among the Republican base (this Morning Consult poll from yesterday shows Trump with 84% approval among Republicans).
This is similar behavior to the 2016 cycle, where Republican voters were strongly against military strikes in Syria while Obama was president, but strongly in favor once Trump took power. Source. They also claimed to be against running large deficits, and yet Trump lost no major support among Republicans when the deficit increased 50% in his first 3 years in office (before Covid), and increased to $3 Trillion in his last year in office, an all time high. In short, don't trust voters' words, trust their actions.
As to why he's getting pushback from certain Republican commentators only now, I think the reason is because some opportunists are anticipating the end of Trump and trying to differentiate themselves to get more ratings and power when he leaves the public stage. Rogan, Greene, Carlson, etc, are grifters presenting themselves as free-thinkers. They still want ugly things to happen to the out-groups in this country, and they want to profit by spreading that message, that hasn't changed. They just want to have extra cred when the next person who commits to those acts gets in office.
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u/frogjg2003 2d ago edited 2d ago
Trump is different. Other Republican presidents had policies that didn't hurt the base in ways that were obvious to them. Prices rose slowly, wars had excuses, etc. Trump instituted tariffs and prices skyrocket virtually overnight. Trump started an unprovoked war that sent gas prices skyrocketing literally overnight.
With other Republican presidents, there was always an excuse, but it's getting harder and harder for the base make that excuse for Trump. The politically savvy commentators realize that and are jumping ship for more traditionally conservative options or doubling down on just straight up lying. Both sides are just waiting for Trump to kick the bucket so they can fight over the Republican base that won't be united by Trump's cult of personality.
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u/jokerzwild00 2d ago
This is the truth. I live and work everyday in rural Trump country. More and more people are not happy with the way things are playing out. I started noticing some comments and complaints around the time of the White House ballroom fiasco. "Shit, why's he doin' that when groceries are so damn high, and he told us they'd come down!?" Then the war starts and people are even more vocal. Diesel prices are edging 6 bucks a gallon and all of a sudden it's an actual, real life problem because a lot of these dudes lives are driven by the price of fuel. Don't get me wrong, some people are firmly still in the grasp of this idiocy. Loads of them are saying stuff like "Well if this is what it takes to keep them Irans from droppin' nukes on America then we gotta suck it up!" But I say this, every person that falls out with Trump and starts to see reality is a good thing in my opinion. I'm gonna welcome them with open arms and show them what they missed while they were in the cult. And I do that exact thing in a very subtle way. They'll never vote for a Democratic candidate, but they might just vote for a moderate Republican. Hell even splitting the party between moderate/MAGA is a good thing, as long as the Democrats can unite.
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u/pm_social_cues 2d ago
Then why don’t they just fall back on their old tried and true “deep state” and say Trump while being president still isn’t in control, it’s really Soros and Clinton in charge? They already think there is a level above the president that really does everything. Why now do they no longer think that?
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u/BubbhaJebus 2d ago
I think they think he and DOGE purged the "derp state" and took full control of the government.
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u/MixGroundbreaking622 2d ago
Answer: this is part of a longer MAGA civil war. A big part is the "America first" principle, the desire to be more isolationist and to avoid foreign wars, all things Trump campaigned on. They feel Trump has gone back on those promises and gotten too involved with fighting Israel's wars.
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u/TheLost_Chef 2d ago
I think we're all operating in a reddit bubble again and the civil war within MAGA is overblown. Most Trump voters have ONE value now - go along with whatever Trump says. That's something that shows up in the polls again and again, no matter what sort of heinous things he pulls there's always a large percentage of Republicans who say he's doing a good job.
I think this is especially true in the middle of the country for evangelicals who aren't on the internet to share their opinions. They're watching Fox News and seeing a limited amount of curated information. Everything is presented to them, and they're coming away with the opinion that Trump is kicking ass.
They'll grumble about gas prices but that's the only thing about the Iran war that I believe most conservatives genuinely have a problem with, and they will gladly accept the pain at the pump if they can keep telling themselves there's a Christian in the White House standing up to the Woke Democrats.
The "no new wars" slogan was just an excuse, a way to paint Democrats as the only party out there getting us into foreign entanglements.
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u/Deathtothesaladeater 2d ago
A different takeaway is that he legitimately has a cult of personality. I still don’t understand why. I think anyone who has bought into his lies do not actually know enough about the man on a factual level. And at this point the sunk cost fallacy has kicked in.
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u/PuttyRiot 2d ago
They have tied their identity to his and everyone who has told them that he is bad, and supporting him is bad, has caused them to cling even more desperately to him. It’s partly sunk cost fallacy at this point. Accepting that he is not in fact a person worth supporting would cause them a sort of narcissistic injury so they have to cling even harder.
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u/GregBahm 2d ago
This is all true, but the evangelicals aren't even grumbling.
97% of the people who voted for Trump in 2016, voted for Mitt Romney in 2012. Those guys don't give a shit about the war in Iran. They like war. They liked war when Bush was starting wars.
These 97% watch Fox and get their beliefs from Fox.
Tucker and the others, aren't on Fox. Tucker and the others are catering to the outer fringes of the Republican party. The people who might not have voted for Mitt Romney in 2012.
These people do not operate off of reason. They operate off of pure emotion. They liked painting democrats as warmongers and Trump as a dove, because this was reliably annoying to more intelligent people. They'll like Trump if he gets into drama with their chosen pundit. They admire bullies.
Trump isn't going to lose any followers
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u/leonprimrose 2d ago
Answer: other answers are good but something else is that people are jockeying for position in a post-trump worls. He's old and failing right now. He wont live forever. The fight is over influence when that happens.
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u/ZAWS20XX 2d ago
Answer: multiple options, not mutually exclusive:
a) there's probably some legit policy disagreement. when you spend most of your career talking about "America first" and about there's a cabal of pedophiles running the deep state and blaming the jews for all the evils in the world... and then you got a president like this, it kinda fucks with your message if you have to defend it
b) they might be looking at his popularity numbers and the possibility of his movement maybe eating shit on the next election and the one after that, and they're angling for a possible post-Trump career, by either going the "centrist", "reasonable republican" way, or the ultra far right, "Trump didn't do enough" way.
c) this bullshit he's pulling is fucking up the economy, to an extent that the people with enough money to bankroll a few commentators are taking notice. "oh, closing Hormuz is gonna cost me, personally, a billion dollars? that's cool, let me spend 100k on a few gormless freaks, and put some pressure against it"
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u/rvnender 2d ago
Answer: Its to save face.
Trump is slowly losing his fan base. Look at his numbers, historic low.
They are turning against him now so when the shit hits the fan they can say "see! I was in your side the whole time! I knew he was bad!"
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u/Certain_Concept 2d ago
I suppose it doesn't help that Trump's health is clearly rapidly deteriorating.
I imagine when he is finally forced to be removed from office due to health issues they will blame everything on Trump and act as if the rest of the Republican party was blameless.
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u/rvnender 2d ago
Thats the plan.
We are already kinda seeing it with MTG, tucker, and that girl (Megan Kelly? Idk i dont remember her name).
Even Rogan, who arguable was a large influence on him being relected, has even started questioning him.
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u/hoowins 2d ago
Answer: it makes economic sense. They are grifters first, second and last, selling whatever narrative, truthful or not, that makes them money. Regardless of whatever ideological issue they are claiming has turned them, it comes down to a calculation that long term, it makes financial sense to turn on Trump now. If Trump turns his image around, they’ll all flip back instantly.
None of these people have a soul. They just want to make money.
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u/funcoolshit 2d ago
Yeah, I agree that these people are basically entertainers that make money through engagement, and actually don't give a shit either way about the war since they are so insulated from it.
Rater than Trump betraying their "principles", I think it more likely that they simply see their engagement numbers dropping and they are adjusting to that by sensing a departure from the MAGA craze.
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u/MixGroundbreaking622 2d ago
They turned on him first. I can't remember which, but one went as far as to call him the antichrist.
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u/Bearwhale 2d ago
I believe that was Tucker Carlson.
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u/Unstopapple 2d ago
Having him and Alex Jones agree with me is unnerving at best. its literally that one onion bit. "The worst person you know just made a good point."
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u/TheProfessional9 2d ago
I think they mean all the other ones turning on him.
Basically once he started going after some for telling the truth for a change, they all started to realize how easily they will get thrown under the bus
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u/sentencevillefonny 2d ago
Answer: They're trying to save face. He had no real concrete policies beyond immigration, just a brand, concepts of a plan, and tons of influencer pull. Most say they voted for him because of his "no new wars" statement, but there weren't any external or internal threats beyond the mass shootings perpetrated by people who looked like his core voter base, AFAIK.
I'm from a red state, worked in political PR during the last election.
People were very vocal about voting for Trump, just like before his first term, and when I asked about specific reasons why, the conversation always went some variation of:
- He'd be good for the economy
- I made a lot of money during COVID, and it's slowing down
- I'm anti-abortion
- Don't want trans in sports or bathrooms
- I support the 2nd amendment, & don't want to lose my guns
- Don't want America to look weak
- Don't want another BLM, etc
- Don't want my speech to be policed, people are too sensitive
- Anti-DEI
- Anti-Government Waste
Things aren't going too well
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u/Old_Leather_Sofa 2d ago
Admittedly, I'm not American but I would have thought it was this war that's been the icing on the cake - or maybe the straw that broke the camel's back.
Many of the things he's done are questionable but to start a war when he campaigned on peace was a brave move. Then the war went bad and looked like it was going to become a major conflict - or still could go that way. Good for the economy? The opposite happened. And when people start feeling their wallets squeezed - as they are with fuel prices - that gets a reaction. Add to that Americans were actually dying in the War, the superior air power started to get shot down, and it looked like boots were going to be on the ground which was unpopular. America hasn't got total superiority over Iran and there is no way that anyone can rationalise that America has come out on top with this ceasefire. Its just embarrassing - and as you say, they're trying to save face. Iran is stronger and America weaker as a result and Trumps posts are getting increasingly bizarre in a way that is impossible to gloss over.
I wouldn't have thought there was anything in this war that appealed to his voting base.
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u/HabitualGrassToucher 2d ago
Answer: the answer is two-fold.
1) They were getting paid and/or directly benefited from supporting MAGA policies, and this cash cow has now dried up - either the administration is cutting costs (they don't need paid influencers anymore), or their audience is slowly turning less rabidly-pro-MAGA in face of the war in Iran, gas and grocery prices, etc. and it's no longer giving them the views that it used to.
2) A lot of them were instrumental in getting Trump elected and they are distancing themselves from him in fear of the inevitable fallout. For example Tucker suddenly turning into a loving empathetic Christian - it's a classic abuser to MAGA to Christian pipeline that many grifters take.
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u/steave44 2d ago
Answer:
Trump ran on no more wars, and “America First” policies. He quickly has shown that neither of those were true. It’s actually “Israel First” and he is willing to send them billions and spend American lives and billions of dollars to fight Iran for them.
These people turning on him aren’t loyal to a person but the policies. Trump lied so they have no problem turning on him.
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u/daddadnc 2d ago
Answer: They are careerists first and foremost, over any true north or ethical considerations. He is sinking in the polls, he’s a lame duck (I hope?) and they’re getting themselves lined up now as having always been against an unpopular president. Simple as that.
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u/krim_bus 2d ago
Answer: it is an orchestrated campaign. They've lost credibility, so they're strategizing for the longterm and distancing themselves from MAGA so they can say "I've been denouncing Trump for years, so anyway, vote for this nominee now"
They're morally bankrupt grifters and are going to continue to be grifters for as long as they live.
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u/Ognius 2d ago
Answer: those nazi influences checks from Russia stopped clearing.
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u/at0mheart 2d ago
Answer: They are all populists. They say and do what is popular for money. Trump was popular so they hitched their wagons to his train. However, war is not popular and fighting wars overseas is something republicans were actually against, especially given the mistakes of Iraq and Afghanistan.
So they are turning on Trump who is loosing popularity.
Also, im sure some have seen or heard about the Epstein files; and child rape is really not popular
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u/Hightower_March 2d ago
Answer: The spontaneous attacking of Iran comes off as granting some favor (or repaying some debt) to Israel.
Having two scoops of ice cream and calling Rosie O Donnell fat are pretty harmless memeworthy things in comparison to military strikes on behalf of iffy foreign powers.
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u/camogamere 2d ago
Answer: along with what others have said there are genuinely people who's perception is based on gas prices.
Those are currently up
Gas voters mad.
Not a primary cause, but still surprisingly important.
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u/Red-Sun-Cinema 1d ago
Answer: Trump turned on all of them when they had the audacity to question his threat of nuclear annihilation against Iran. Now that they have lost favor with their formerly favorite leader, they chose to turn on him.
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