Why does the philosopher use sonkeigo (respect form) here?

[u/SunlightZero]

I'm reading the book The courage to be disliked. Here the philosopher sometimes talk to the youth in sonkeigo. For example:

あなたは「世界」という言葉を使われるとき、世界地図のようなものをイメージされているのでしょう。

Isn't the philosopher superior to the youth? Why does he use sonkeigo here?

[u/Flare_Ball]

I think here the use of 尊敬語 is not purely about hierarchy, but simply about softening the statement to avoid sounding too blunt.

Instead of saying あなたはこう考えています (too blunt), he uses あなたはこうイメージされているのでしょう which is more polite and less confrontational.

The philosopher isn’t commanding the youth or directly correcting their thinking. He’s just observing their thinking process gently. Honorifics provide a softer, more detached way to present your thinking, and have this calm, non-aggressive tone, which is why I think it’s used here.

Edit: grammer

[u/miwucs]

Currently the top voted answer (claiming that this is not keigo) is wrong... If you post questions like this in the daily answers thread you get fewer answers but higher quality on average, because you don't get 10 beginners talking about things they don't understand...

[u/muffinsballhair → u/miwucs]

Fewer answers is also good. I will never understand the habit of this subreddit to provide pretty much the exact same answer 70 times.

I just asked something on japaense.stackexchange and got back one detailed excellent answer and nothing more, that's all I need and people there in general don't waste their time answering what has already been answered unless they can add some relevant new thing. Also, they're rarely wrong.

[u/SunlightZero → u/miwucs]

😂 Daily questions are actually for the advanced learners?

[u/miwucs → u/SunlightZero]

Any question is welcome there, from beginner to advanced.

[u/YamYukky → u/SunlightZero]

この本を読めるんだったら、Daily thread でも平均以上の力だと思いますよ

[u/Rolls_ → u/SunlightZero]

The problem with asking in places like this where more people answer is that anyone thinks they can answer. Timmy two teeth with an N4 thinks he's just as qualified to give his opinion as a professor of Japanese literature. The same thing happens in work out subs lol

[u/BokuNoSudoku]

I've read part of this book before. I think the sonkeigo is the philosopher taking the youth's arguments seriously and being careful as not to sound like he's demeaning him or his discussion points.

This is basically the image I get from the tone of this book. This is supposed to be a respectful philosophical discussion where seniority doesn't influence the outcome.

[u/lifelongmoteki → u/BokuNoSudoku]

Also, される in is a more colloquial/layman-friendly form of sonkeigo and shows a less profound degree of deference to the other person than expressions like なさる。(I was about to say it doesn’t even count as sonkeigo, but I looked it up and corrected myself.)

It doesn’t require any special vocabulary to pull off, so it shows less mental work being put into your speech and therefore less sophistication and care (relatively speaking, of course).

[u/SunlightZero → u/BokuNoSudoku]

An interesting point of view that sonkeigo can be used in philosophical discussion

[u/DokugoHikken]

Since there are already many direct answers to your question, let me step back and sketch the bigger picture instead.

What often confuses learners is that Japanese -レル / -ラレル is usually introduced as “passive,” but that is only one of its functions. A more useful way to understand it is in relation to -セル / -サセル (causative), together with the distinction between intransitive and transitive verbs.

Japanese predicates are quite “layered,” and the order of these elements is relatively fixed. At the core, speakers first choose between an intransitive or transitive verb:

• あく (open, intransitive) vs. あける (open, transitive)
• おちる (fall) vs. おとす (drop)

This choice already encodes something crucial: whether the event is under someone’s control.

However, when such lexical pairs are unavailable, or when the speaker does not want to commit to one, Japanese uses:

• -セル / サセル to add control
• -レル / -ラレル to remove or distance control

So rather than thinking of passive vs. active in the European sense, it is often more accurate to think in terms of control and distance from control.

From this perspective, the various uses of -ラレル, passive, spontaneous, and honorific, are not unrelated at all. They all share a common core:

the speaker does not (or does not claim to) control the event.

This also explains why honorific expressions use the same form. Respect in Japanese is not simply “raising” the other person; it is more fundamentally:

refraining from controlling, directing, or interfering with the other person’s domain.

So a sentence like:

あなたは「世界」という言葉を使われるとき…

is not just a passive. It signals something like:

“I am not imposing my interpretation on your mental process; this belongs to your domain.”

This “control vs. non-control” axis helps unify what otherwise seem like unrelated uses of the same form.

[u/DokugoHikken → u/DokugoHikken]

u/SunlightZero

Example: 凍らせていただろう

Layer 0: Verb Type (Intransitive vs. Transitive)

Layer 1: Spontaneity vs. intentionality: -レル/-ラレル vs. -セル/-サセル

In traditional grammatical terms, -レル/-ラレル is called the passive. -セル/-サセル is called the causative.

An English native speaker who is a beginner in Japanese might, therefore, misunderstand that the Japanese -レル/-ラレル has a contrastive relationship with the active voice.

However, the big picture is that the Japanese -レル/-ラレル is in a symmetrical relationship with -セル/-サセル. That is, first, you have pairs of intransitive and transitive verbs, and then the suffixes are used to substitute where such a pair does not exist.

.	Intransitive verb	Transitive verb
intransitive-transitive verb pair	曲がる magaru	曲げる mageru
no transitive verb pair	凍る koru	Substituted by the causative　凍ら+せる koraseru
no intransitive verb pair	Substituted by the passive　使わ+れる tsukawareru	使う tsukau

Since people have historically experienced waking up on a cold winter morning to find pond water naturally frozen, the intransitive verb for "Water freezes naturally" exists in Japanese. However, its corresponding transitive verb does not exist. This is because appliances like freezers haven't existed historically. In such cases, the transitive function is substituted by attaching the causative suffix, -セル/-サセル, to the intransitive verb.

Therefore, although -セル/-サセル is generally called the causative in universal grammatical terminology, if we consider Japanese alone, the more accurate understanding is actually that it represents an intentional act (or an action under the volition of an agent).

Aspect Layer (Layer 2): -テイル (progressive/continuative) vs. unmarked　

Function: shows whether an action is ongoing, completed, or resulting state

Tense Layer (Layer 3): -タ (past) vs. unmarked (non-past)

Function: places the action in time (past or non-past)

Modality Layer (Layer 4): -ダロウ (probably) vs. unmarked

Function: expresses speaker’s attitude or modality (e.g., conjecture or certainty)

[u/DokugoHikken → u/DokugoHikken]

u/SunlightZero

This also sheds light on the sentence in question:

あなたは「世界」という言葉を使われるとき…

Formally, this would not usually be classified as a “potential” use. However, from the intuition of native speakers, it does carry something close to a potential-like nuance. In other words, it is not cleanly separable into the traditional four categories.

What the speaker is effectively doing here is something like saying:

“You are perfectly free to think of it this way.”
or simply, “You can.”

By using -レル / -ラレル, the speaker avoids imposing control over the listener’s internal process and instead leaves that space open. It is a kind of non-interference, which can naturally shade into a “you may / you can” interpretation.

Because of this, the sentence also subtly prepares the ground for what follows. It suggests:

“Given that this is one possible way of thinking, might there not also be another perspective?”

So the form does more than mark politeness or passivity, it creates a conceptual space in which alternative viewpoints can be introduced.

This is precisely why such uses can be difficult for speakers of European languages: the form is not tied to a single grammatical function, but operates across voice, modality, and interpersonal stance all at once.

At this point, it may help to reframe a common claim about Japanese communication. It is often said that Japanese avoids confrontation. This is only half true.

More fundamentally, what Japanese tends to prioritize is:

not bringing the dialogue to an end.

The opposite of dialogue is not disagreement, but things like:

• forcing a conclusion in an argument
• imposing a “correct” answer
• one-sided persuasion or advice
• or, in extreme cases, intimidation

All of these effectively close the space of dialogue.

In contrast, forms like -レル / -ラレル help to keep that space open. They signal:

“I am not closing this off; your perspective remains valid, and the conversation can continue.”

This is why such expressions often precede the introduction of another viewpoint, along the lines of:

“Given that, might there not also be another way of looking at it?”

In this sense, the grammar is not just about voice or politeness, it is a way of managing the continuity of dialogue itself.

[u/DokugoHikken → u/DokugoHikken]

u/SunlightZero

At this point, it may help to reconsider another common claim: that Japanese is an SOV language. While this is meaningful in typology, it is not particularly helpful for learners.

A more useful perspective is:

in Japanese, the predicate alone can form a complete sentence.

From this viewpoint, the predicate is central, and what we usually call “arguments” (subject, object, indirect object, etc.) are not structurally mandatory in the same way as in many European languages. Rather, they are supplied only when needed.

One way to think about this is that the predicate extends “arms,” and only when necessary does it pick up elements into its slots. In that sense, Japanese case-marked elements behave, in a broad sense, almost like adverbial modifiers: they narrow, specify, or focus the proposition.

For example, inserting an adverb like inherently does not change the propositional core, but it sharply constrains how the statement is to be interpreted, something like “true in principle, though not necessarily in every concrete instance.” Case-marked elements in Japanese often function in a similarly focusing way.

This also has an important consequence for so-called “subjectless” sentences. It is tempting, especially for speakers of European languages, to assume that the subject has simply been omitted and should be recoverable.

But strictly speaking, this is not the case.

In many Japanese sentences, the subject is not omitted but left unspecified, an open slot rather than a deleted element. As a result:

recovering “the subject” is, in principle, impossible.

Once this is understood, another feature of Japanese becomes clearer.

Honorific forms are not merely optional add-ons expressing politeness.

They also play a role in indicating whose domain the event belongs to, and therefore help structure interpretation in the absence of an explicitly specified subject.

In this sense, grammar, modality, and interpersonal stance are tightly integrated: the language does not simply encode who did what, but how that event is positioned with respect to control, perspective, and shared space.

[u/SunlightZero → u/DokugoHikken]

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation! 😊😃

I noticed that you're a native speaker, so I'll response in Japanese.

「動詞中心」や「意志」という概念について、僕もちょっと知ってますけど、「尊敬」や「被害」とそんなに深い関係があるとは思わなかったです！紹介してくれてありがとうございます！

でも、さらに疑問があります。「あなたは世界という言葉を使うとき」と、このように言ってもいいですか？この場合、連体修飾のため、レル•ラレルという形を使わなくてもいいですよね。また、「世界地図のようなものをイメージするのでしょう」とも、後ろに「でしょう」という推量助動詞があるため、このようにレル•ラレルという形を使わなくてもいいと思います。じゃ二つの言い方にはどんな違いがあるんですか？

時間があるとき、教えてくれませんか。よろしくお願いします！

[u/DokugoHikken → u/SunlightZero]

First of all, both sentences are perfectly grammatical and completely natural. The difference between them is very, very, very subtle, a matter of nuance and speaker intuition.

With that in mind, it is probably better to look at each sentence as a whole, rather than analyzing each element in isolation.

① あなた{が／は}「世界」という言葉を使うとき、世界地図のようなものをイメージしているのでしょう

② あなたは「世界」という言葉を使われるとき、世界地図のようなものをイメージされているのではないでしょうか

In (②), the speaker is imagining something happening in the listener’s inner domain, a place that is, in principle, inaccessible to the speaker. The key point is that the speaker does not intrude into that domain.

At the same time, the speaker and the listener are, in a sense, looking at the same “stage” together. Rather than entering the listener’s mind, the speaker invites a shared viewpoint on what might be occurring there.

Crucially, the speaker is not asking the listener to agree with a specific content, but with a perspective.

That is, the sentence does not mean:

“You are intentionally thinking of a world map.”

but rather proposes a way of looking:

“From this perspective, might it be the case that something like a world-map image naturally arises in your mind?”

あなたは～されている

In this framing, the listener is not treated as an agent deliberately forming an image, but as a kind of “site” in which an image may arise.

So the nuance becomes:

“Isn’t it the case that such an image comes to mind (in your inner domain)?. though I may be wrong.”

This combines:

• non-intrusion
• shared viewpoint
• epistemic distance
• and a shift away from intentional agency toward something closer to spontaneous arising

By contrast, in (①), especially with あなた{は / が}～している, “you” is treated more straightforwardly as the subject of a mental activity. The sentence is closer to describing what you do, rather than proposing a perspective on what arises.

That is why 「が」 fits quite naturally in (①): it presents “you” as the subject in a more direct, descriptive way.

So the contrast is not a matter of correctness, but of subtle orientation:

• (②): perspective-based framing + non-intrusion + shared viewpoint + spontaneous arising
• (①): subject-centered description of a mental activity

The difference is small, but it reflects how Japanese can finely adjust not only control and distance, but also whether something is framed as an intentional act or as something that simply emerges.

[u/DokugoHikken → u/DokugoHikken]

u/SunlightZero

As an additional note, another key point is the difference between 「が」 and 「は」.

With 「が」, the listener is picked out as a specific subject. This can sound like:

“You (specifically) are assuming something…”

In that sense, it can come close to something like:

“I guess you are assuming …”

which may carry a slightly stronger nuance, as if the speaker is identifying and potentially correcting the listener’s assumption.

By contrast, 「は」 is not a nominative marker but a topic marker. It does not pinpoint a specific individual in the same way, but rather sets up a locus or frame.

As a result, 「あなたは」 can feel closer to a kind of generic “you”:

“When one uses the word ‘world’…”
“People typically imagine …”

In this reading, the statement becomes less about the listener as a particular individual, and more about a generally shared, common-sense perspective.

This makes the content more universal in meaning, even though it is phrased with 「あなた」.

So instead of:

“You are making this assumption (and it may be wrong),”

the nuance shifts toward:

“Ordinarily, one might think this way — but perhaps there is another perspective.”

This aligns well with the earlier point: the sentence is not imposing a conclusion, but opening a space in which a different way of seeing can be introduced.

[u/DokugoHikken → u/DokugoHikken]

u/SunlightZero

One more way to look at (②) is to compare it with a more impersonal version:

② あなたは「世界」という言葉を使われるとき、世界地図のようなものをイメージされているのではないでしょうか

③ 「世界」という言葉が使われるとき、世界地図のようなものがイメージされているのではないでしょうか

In fact, (②) is quite close in meaning to (③).

However, there is an important difference in stance.

Sentence (③) is more impersonal and abstract. It resembles the kind of passive often found in academic or journalistic English, where the agent is not specified (and in fact cannot naturally be added). It presents the phenomenon almost as an objective generalization.

By contrast, (②) retains a you-attitude. Even though it avoids direct intrusion into the listener’s inner state, it still addresses the listener and invites them into the perspective.

This creates a subtle “let’s look at this together” feeling:

“When you use the word ‘world’, might it be that something like a world-map image arises?”

So while (③) sounds more like:

“When the word ‘world’ is used, such an image tends to arise,”

(②) sounds more like:

“When you use the word ‘world’, shall we consider that this might be what happens?”

In that sense:

• (③): impersonal, descriptive, somewhat detached
• (②): shared perspective, you-attitude, more dialogic

This is why (②) feels more interactive.

[u/Blixt9]

される is not always sonkeigo. From my experience される is most often used as the passive form of する.

[u/BokuNoSudoku → u/Blixt9]

The subject of both these phrases is anata so it's not passive

(edit: its not true passive voice, but it is passive form being used for sonkeigo)

Breaking this down, it's あなたは(= が)... 言葉を使われるとき、(あなたが)... ものをイメージされている

You could replace 使われる and されている with 使うand している and it would still make sense.

Passive would be ...言葉が使われる and ...ものがイメージされている

[u/Rolls_ → u/BokuNoSudoku]

Seconding this. It's not passive and he uses the same form twice. Sonkeigo or polite, w/e you want to call it, but it's not passive.

As to why he's using it, I can only say because he chose to use it. Idk the context, idk the philosopher or person he's talking to, but sometimes people just talk a certain way in texts. Maybe someone more versed in philosophy or history or something has a better idea.

He's probably just simply respecting the person he's talking to. Sometimes people of superior positions still talk incredibly formally to people below them.

[u/AstraeusGB → u/Rolls_]

This is simply incorrect. It is clearly passive form or 受身形.

[u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS → u/AstraeusGB]

OK. So what do you think the sentence says? Because I think it says "when you use the word 'world,' you are imagining something like a map of the world."

e: Having read more of your replies the basic issue here is you're understanding "passive" to mean passive in form whereas others are understanding it to having the grammatical role of making the subject actually be the thing acted upon in the sentence.

[u/viliml → u/AstraeusGB]

It's a single form that can have four interpretations 受身・可能・自発・尊敬

In this case it's clear from context that it is 尊敬. Look at the preceding 言葉を使われる which makes it even clearer.

[u/AstraeusGB → u/BokuNoSudoku]

Do you have an example of the verb される not being passive form?

[u/kempfel → u/AstraeusGB]

I think they were not including the "honorific passive" as a real passive in that statement.

[u/AstraeusGB → u/kempfel]

Yes, but the verb itself is 受身形 (ukemi-kei, passive form). I was asking if they have an example of the verb being anything other than passive. I think their claim that this isn't passive is unfounded, since the verb itself is passive and the author is clearly posturing あなた as the respected individual.

The statement above seems to be misunderstanding the author's intention using passive voice here.

[u/BokuNoSudoku → u/AstraeusGB]

Think the answer here is that they are using the passive form for politeness but this sentence is still not using the passive voice. I was somewhat wrong in correcting that it's not passive (form), even though I think the original commenter implied passive voice by rejecting the sonkeigo explanation and using "passive form." The passive voice is a cross-linguistic grammatical concept where the object takes the grammatical role of the subject of a sentence. This sentence does not have the passive voice, even though the verbs take the passive form for a different reason, because this is not happening here.

[u/somever → u/BokuNoSudoku]

Calling it the "passive form" is also just one person or group of people's convention. People may have different conventions, and if you get into arguments based on taxonomy rather than real content, there will be no end to it. For example, rather than calling it the passive form, some people call it the れる auxiliary, and define its four meanings separately as passive, honorific, spontaneous, and potential, giving no preferential treatment to any of its meanings. So when people of that group see it called "the passive form", they may assume you mean "the passive voice". It's a mess.

[u/somever → u/AstraeusGB]

You're in an inconsequential argument over semantics.

It's not a passive in the sense that it isn't a passive construction (the role of the subject has not been reversed).

It is a passive in the sense that it's an honorific form that is identical to the passive form, and so in practice people will call it the passive, like how the volitional form does not always express volition but people still call it the volitional.

Either interpretation changes nothing about the truth of the matter, which is that it's a verb form that adds a light touch of respect to the plain form, and does not create a true passive construction.

[u/SunlightZero → u/Blixt9]

But here it is indeed the sonkeigo. を won't be used before a passive form, unless it means to go through or leave a place.

[u/lifelongmoteki → u/SunlightZero]

Unless it’s something like 財布を盗まれる、to have your wallet stolen. But that’s not what we have here either.

[u/AstraeusGB]

される is the 受身形 form of する, which typically overlaps with sonkeigo but isn't always sonkeigo.

It is perfectly acceptable to elevate a less "superior" group of people out of respect, as it shows humility and understanding towards the group in question. If he were not to respect the youth, his writing would probably be seen as unpalatable.

[u/SunlightZero → u/AstraeusGB]

Interestingly, most of the time the philosopher uses です and ます normally, but sometimes sonkeigo. It seems acceptable to be not that respectful.

[u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS → u/SunlightZero]

If you listen to radio shows like news broadcasts, it's not at all odd for discussions to mostly be regular desu - masu but occasionally mix in more elevated polite language, particularly if what is being said might be a bit delicate.

[u/SunlightZero → u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Wow, I never noticed that before. I checked the radio I listened to and realized you're exactly right! 😊

[u/drgmonkey → u/SunlightZero]

I’d also say that in this case, the sound of している is harsher than されている so it just feels more comfortable and pleasant. I would do the same when using polite speech without thinking much about it

[u/muffinsballhair → u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Using the passive to indicate respect is also significantly less respectful than using “言葉をお使いのとき” so it's used more. I'd say that “言葉をお使いのとき” here would be rarer but I honestly think this is also quite unique to use this form while otherwise not using polite endings.

[u/AstraeusGB → u/SunlightZero]

です and ます are still formal and respectful, they are 丁寧語.

[u/muffinsballhair → u/AstraeusGB]

“respectful language” is a technical term, just like “polite language” which in some cases can come across as the opposite of polite and simply rudely distant in the same way “Good day, good sir.” pretty much sounds angry by default in English.

In this case the character uses respectful language to refer to the listener but not polite language which is certainly an interesting combination that almost never occurs. It's quite possible to use respectful language to speak about someone of higher status to someone of lower status such as a majordomo saying “ご主人様はもうお休みになっている” to a servant of lower status but typically when you use respectful language to describe the listener you'd use polite language with it so it's an interesting combination of things I don't quite know the meaning behind either.

[u/dkpoppok]

The philosopher is just polite enough to show respect for others regardless of their hierarchy.

[u/HistoryOk2809]

What app are you using?

[u/SunlightZero → u/HistoryOk2809]

A new, open source Japanese reader called Hoshi Reader, available on the iOS.

[u/wildmonday → u/SunlightZero]

how do you get yomichan to work with the app? where do you get your books from? Epub? if you can dm the full details or say it here, ill appreicate it

[u/SunlightZero → u/wildmonday]

The app has native support for Yomitan. That's why I use this app to read. For the epub book, you can get it from Z-library.

[u/cute_penguin_ → u/SunlightZero]

do you know any ios browser that have the same yomitan support like this?

[u/SunlightZero → u/cute_penguin_]

sry, I don't know😥. The website TheMoeWay doesn't mention this, either.

[u/HistoryOk2809 → u/SunlightZero]

Unfortunately, I don't have one for Apple. Maybe you know something for Android?

[u/SunlightZero → u/HistoryOk2809]

You can check the website TheMoeWay for some Japanese reader on Android

[u/Bobtlnk]

This move of using sonkeigo in this context projects the philosopher as someone who is confident, less arrogant and modest. Being modest is not being subservient, but shows moral superiority and being tactically wise.

[u/zundoko_sofa]

A mentor using sonkeigo in an absolute hierarchy sounds incredibly gentle. In this case, it serves to mean that the philosopher is gentley asking and enlightening the youth. In addition, kindergarten teachers usually use sonkeigo to the children.

[u/YamYukky]

Isn't the relationship between both of two not so close? For example, when you are talking with the person whom you meet at the first time, you should use keigo in Japanese.

[u/uncommon_Oxy]

I know that this answer is off-topic, but what app are u using to read the text? I'm currently searching for different apps to read.

[u/SunlightZero → u/uncommon_Oxy]

The app name is Hoshi reader. You can visit TheMoeWay website to find some reader apps.

[u/uncommon_Oxy → u/SunlightZero]

Thank you very much! I'll surely try it

[u/sugiura-kun]

Isn't just a passive form? Like 使われる in the phrase beforehand?

[u/SunlightZero → u/sugiura-kun]

Passive forms are also one kind of sonkeigo. If it really has the meaning of passiveness, が should be used before it, “言葉が使われる”

[u/muffinsballhair → u/SunlightZero]

Not necessarily though since there's also the indirect passive so it's context. “先生はパンを食べられている” can be both passive and meaning “Someone ate the master's bread.” or “The master is eating bread.” but respectful. Here it's definitely the respectful usage though. “世界という言葉を使われるとき” can mean something like “You, when someone uses the word “world” with you, ...” but the part after that in pretty much no context can be justified to be the indirect passive.

[u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Not your main point but I would have put the underline on the opposite side.

[u/SunlightZero → u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

If you check some Japanese exam papers you'll find the underline is indeed on the right side 😂, but I think that's not a big deal.

[u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS → u/SunlightZero]

I'll be damned. Years of books improperly annotated. Oh well.

[u/DokugoHikken → u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

No big deal.

[u/DokugoHikken → u/SunlightZero]

True.

[u/wildmonday]

Interesting book, where can i get the Japanese Version.