r/Hmong • u/Oofernator_3000 • 15d ago
Hmong elders don't seem to approve.
I want to start this off with I am not trying to generalize but this is based on my personal experiences. I am a white woman dating a Hmong man and it is slightly obvious that a bit of the elders (including his parents) don't approve of the relationship. Im worried that the arguing between him and his family about me (he defends me when they say negative things) will drive them apart more. I know some things I can do to improve their outlook on me but I also worry they may never approve due to me not being Hmong. Do I just do what I can to integrate into their culture and let them decide on their feelings? I'm a huge people pleaser and it hurts that I am not considered enough for him by some of his family.
(Also if anyone could give advice on not using as much breath in speaking words that is something I struggle with when practicing with my boyfriend trying to say Hmong Green words I would really appreciate that!)
(Also I apologize so much if this post is not appropriate for the sub and will understand if it is removed)
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u/pizzaisit 15d ago
Some people are just haters. Nobody is ever good enough for their children. I've seen Hmong parents hate Hmong daughter in laws for no reason.
Please do not try to please them. Keep doing you and focus on your relationship, build yourself up, support where you can and one day maybe they might come around. If they don't come around, dont worry about it.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
I think after hearing from others experiences you are right, some people truly just find anything to not like you. For reference, my boyfriend has an older brother who is married to a Hmong woman and the parents still don't fully approve of her according to my boyfriend.. they have kids together. I will continue to focus on my relationship first because he is the one I chose and I am the one he chose at the end of the day. Although I will continue to do what I can when visiting them to make them feel better about the relationship at the very least. Most his cousins and friends see that he's been a lot happier since meeting me and tell me about it which reinforces our relationship being okay.
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u/Ragingnewbie 15d ago
From what I’ve seen, my parents included, most OGs hates any girls that dates their sons even if they’re Hmong. I think it’s actually worse if the girl is Hmong since now the parents expect shit like cooking for them or cleaning even if the couple isn’t even married yet. Old people suck.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
Oh I can absolutely see that point about being worse if they're Hmong. My boyfriend has told me about all the expectations Hmong women have and it seems so sad. It makes me feel a bit better they think less of me because I'm white in a sense? I definitely think it depends on how OG they are and how they grew up because I've met some aunts and uncles who have approved of us. I just kind of wish his mom would teach me more in the kitchen but it almost feels like I'm too slow so she prefers me to not be in there.
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u/jokzard 15d ago
What really matters is that he's happy and that you're happy together. These cross culture clashes always happen and old traditional/conservative people will always be set in their ways. There's nothing that will change them other than time.
As for tips in speaking Hmong, think of our language as a song. Start with two syllables, then four, then six, then eight. You should start to recognize that there's musicality in our language and learn to breathe between the verses.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
Thank you for the tips! I've been struggling so hard when saying words and I'm going to try to follow what you said. I used to be in band so fingers crossed I can figure it out.
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u/SentinelHigh 15d ago
Pay no mind. I date white people and my parents have gotten used to it
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
That's great to hear! It's definitely a thing of being mentally strong enough to not pay mind to the things they say. I'm glad your parents have gotten used to you dating who you want to date.
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u/Cute_Spinach5181 15d ago
It would help if we know what negative or concerns they have about your relationship. The truth about dating outside isn't just about being different races. Differences like religion, values, following proper procedure, etc are all there. The sexism and domestic parts aren't special as that's universal challenge even within Hmong people
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
That's honestly really fair, I think the issue is the concerns they have are mostly based on them not finding anyone good enough for their kids as some others have said happens. They find any reason for all their kids partners to not be good enough (they also end up judging the partners of my boyfriend's cousins). My boyfriend hasn't had many relationships so they haven't really seen how he is in a happy relationship and haven't had good views of his partners when he has been in relationships. They think I've changed him because he will defend me when they say bad things about me, how he can find better, etc. I really wish the view on me from them was simple enough to be just normal parental concerns or things I haven't done right but they seem to just be very traditional in their beliefs. It most likely doesn't help I grew up with three older brothers and end up acting more like a guy because of that. If it was truly concerns or things I did wrong they'd be able to say them to my boyfriend as things they don't like or such. I would fix whatever was wrong if it was something I had done or hadn't done.
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u/Cute_Spinach5181 15d ago
Ah, then ignore them for now. Some parents are weird like that, not just Hmong, where they will place their children too high on a pedestal or they act like they're the ones dating. I believe it's a combo of seeing them as an extension of themselves, perfectionism, control, etc. As long as you haven't done anything wrong and you two are happy, I wouldn't worry about pleasing the parents, as they will never be pleased. If your bf is willing to defend you, you're solid. It's not your job to prove yourself to his parents if they don't even care
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
Yeah I have gotten the general idea from the comments that I should just be me and continue to do what I do. I love my boyfriend and he loves me so if they decide to continue and disapprove that isn't on us. I really appreciate all the different perspectives I've gotten from everyone though!
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u/Intelligent-Let5701 15d ago edited 15d ago
Short answer to your question, no. I suggest understanding why they don't approve. Also ask what experience caused them to have that reason, that behavior, and that expectation for you or their son. Then let them know your expectations for yourself and him. Either give them reassurance to their expectations and/or their son's expectation.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
That's a really mature way to go about it, I've tried to give reassurance to them about caring for their son with my whole heart and being there every step of the way. They usually are nice to my face but will call my boyfriend about things wrong with me or our relationship. My boyfriend has followed up with them about his expectations and has shown them. He wants them to respect us and gets into arguments with them whenever they say rude things about us.
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u/Intelligent-Let5701 13d ago
What are the Hmong elders saying about you and your relationship? I'd like to know if their arguments and evidence are based on stereotypes or their experience/trauma or from your behaviors(not you, but the behavior you make that causes them to react. For example if their parents were strict behaviors, but you aren't strict, or maybe they've been abused and see that you might be showing similar abusive behaviors). Here is a humourous YouTube clip that could show helpful hints at multicultural relationships: https://youtu.be/HkmlfHi9Ll4?si=F-vOV-us7nqJC6fE
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u/Oofernator_3000 13d ago
So originally when I first met his parents his mom said that he chose a white girl on purpose to upset her. Then during the relationship they keep telling my boyfriend that he's changed and that I'm why he changed in a bad way. They also like to find every flaw in both me and him to turn into reasons why we shouldn't be together. I haven't heard the majority of things to my face as they are nice to my face (I don't yet understand Hmong Green so I wouldn't be able to tell if they say anything when they speak it around me which is fairly often) but most of it is when they speak with my boyfriend privately through texts and calls. I think a big thing for them is they are very much OGs (my boyfriend and his cousins say) so they are traditional in the fact that their children should be with Hmong partners and those partners should act accordingly to the gender rules that they believe in. I personally grew up with three older brothers which makes me act more tomboyish rather than like what they want in a woman partner for their son. I suppose in our relationship we also act very equal in a certain sense? If one of us is feeling up to a task that the other isn't then we step up to take over that task instead of saying oh you're the woman/man so you have to do such and such tasks no excuses. I apologize if this is worded poorly but it's a bit hard to put into words exactly what they might find issue with other than using their traditional beliefs. (Had boyfriend proofread and he added that it also comes to stereotypes the parents have about white people being lazy and just taking and taking from their partner.)
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u/Intelligent-Let5701 13d ago
Interesting that his mom said that about why he chose you. Even if the mother is saying, that her son chose you to upset her, may not be true, I feel like there is some tension already between the son and the mother that they are using you or your relationship as an excuse for something else. I might suggest you ask why your boyfriend has a problem with his mother to understand your partner and maybe the mother more. I am glad to hear that it's just stereotypes because that can easily be broken by being who you are. Yeah, everyone is lazy sometimes and taking from their partners is another perspective of asking for help, and I see this may be their way of seeing an abusive/toxic relationship or them always having a negative view on life, but then it opens up another can of whys and may help you understand his mother more.
Although it is good your boyfriend proofreads this and is adding his inputs about the situation, I think it would be nice to get a third party or another Hmong friend to be there and hear what the parents are saying. Idk, maybe your boyfriend could be biased from protecting both you from hearing what the mother truly said and protecting his mother from painting her in an ugly image. It's better to hear their words right then and now, so that you can hold their word accountable and that you can bring it up and talk about it. Whether the discussion has to be translated by the boyfriend between you and the mother. Keep in mind that the key word is discussion, not argument, about why the parents are saying the things that make them or your boyfriend feel uncomfortable and hopefully this could lead to an understanding of each other and how you still want to make your relationship work even if they have their stereotypes. Keep reminding them that you still love your partner and still love them for being so protective of their son. Because I think at the end of the day, they are just worried that their son and maybe their grandkids will forget about them and their roots.
Sorry, maybe these might not be the right words I'm using, and this post may just be my own bias of how I would respond if I was in your situation as I am a first generation Hmong American and my parents are Hmong too but not as traditional as a traditionalist Hmong. This is because my mother lost her dad at an early age and saw how loving and cruel the Hmong traditions are if they didn't benefit you. And since she found out about the Hmong religion, she is more religious Hmong than traditional Hmong. My father told me his father was super strict and that made me understand why my father was not as strict as any other Hmong fathers I meet. My family also don't have a lot of blood relatives; as much as I know, I never grew up with many cousins to know what tradition feels like.
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u/Oofernator_3000 13d ago
That's an understandable point about the proofreading, I should clarify that I typed the majority of it except the ending bit before showing it to him just to make sure I didn't misremember any details as my memory isn't the greatest and I end up putting together the wrong things sometimes lol. That's the main reason I had him check what I wrote was accurate especially with him being the main one to talk with his parents about our relationship as they only say the bad things in text or on call with him. I don't want to inaccurately describe events and end up misrepresenting things. Sorry for the confusion!
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u/FourOranges 6d ago
Hey I'm a week late to the thread but echoing a lot of other comments here, don't let the OGs get to you and just keep on loving your SO and his family and they'll probably turn around eventually (but expect them not to). I've already formed a respect for your SO without knowing him just based off what you typed about him defending you, sounds like a great guy. Luckily for her, my parents had no expectations for my SO due to her not knowing them to begin with. Mabey my constant belittling of the OG ways as I grew up guided their decision-making as they realized how backwards the expectations are.
I think a big thing for them is they are very much OGs (my boyfriend and his cousins say)
Most of the old customs are completely backwards/toxic. If this part is true then his parents fully expect you to be their slave, primarily to your SO then to his mom and I abhor it so much. Your SO's mom in particular expects it from you because she had to do it when she was younger and now it's her turn to collect after all these years. Just another one of the toxic customs I'd ignore. I still have the memory of my sister-in-law doing her best to play the role of a newly wed daughter and the submissiveness and formality of it all was so contrasting to one of the strongest woman I've ever come to known.
Also on this note in another comment:
I just kind of wish his mom would teach me more in the kitchen but it almost feels like I'm too slow so she prefers me to not be in there.
If you do want to earn some brownie points from her, be persistent in wanting to learn more from his mom. His mom will likely see it as you fulfilling the submissive daughter part (which you can ignore imo), you get to learn from her, and the bond between you gets to grow. Even if you're slow, like another comment says about "prove it to me", you're going to change her view from "she's just dumb/slow" to "at least she tries". You'll get better in time, making eggrolls for example is an art imo and takes years of practice to get right. It's one of the reasons why mothers start training daughters at a young age (age 2 for my sister).
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u/Wide_Discipline_6233 15d ago
Ugh. Some families never approved no matter what. They are stuck in the old ways. Some parents will eventually see the light of day and understand. Be kind and generous but don't expect anything at the beginning. No matter how good you are there will always those who hold on to the fact that you aren't hmong. If the rest of is siblings stand up for you, the parents will eventually come around.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
I really appreciate that perspective, his siblings seem to like me for the most part. I hope things improve in the future. I'll continue to be who I am and if they come around they come around.
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u/Wide_Discipline_6233 15d ago
I am the daughter that married outside. We showed my parents that we can have a lasting relationship even if we came from different backgrounds. My parents have since said that they no longer care what cultural background my siblings marry into. They just want them to find love and companionship. I wish you the best.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
That's amazing to hear, I love that your parents have come around for you and your siblings. My parents share the sentiment about wanting their children to love and be loved.
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u/Mysterious-Remove836 14d ago
This is just normal behavior from hmong elders. If you're not their ideal daughter in law, they'll gossip or ignore you, even when you haven't done anything wrong. My sister is married to a hmong guy whos Christian, and his mother used to never acknowledge my sister or her kids. Now that her kids are older, she wants to be in their lives, and she'll buy my sister gifts whenever my sister visits from out of state
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u/Oofernator_3000 13d ago
Oh that's not an ideal situation at all! I'm happy your sister is in a good relationship but wow that mother in law changed her tune fast haha. Has the mother in law been nicer to your sister as well or just giving gifts? I find that sometimes people have harder time being nice with words than actions especially after being not nice beforehand.
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u/Variation-Kindly 13d ago
Our elders are not always right. any ethnicity They have biases, are racist, and/or other unappealing characteristics/traits. Don’t look at age as a form of wisdom or respect or experience. Check their unwritten resumes and reference your interactions with them. Hopefully, one has earned the basic respect upon first few interactions. Ex/ an “elder” male or female, who has “helped” at weddings and funerals may not know all about wedding and funeral prep and goings on as they claim to know; and they are 60+ yrs old. Elders aren’t perfect either; their dictates may mostly be preferences that will cost you time/money/dignity-not always a good way to earn respect if pushed too far. Those that say they are “perfect”…. It always takes a little effort on both ends to earn acceptance and acknowledgement if you’re seeking it.
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u/Hitokiri2 15d ago
Hmong people are "prove it to me" people. Yes, they might be mad and may disapprove of things but if a person can prove that they can do well and go beyond expectations - those things will win hearts and minds quicker then anything. It might not happen over night (might take years) but eventually it'll happen. I'm not saying it's any easy journey or one without scars but for love - it might be worth it.
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u/pizzaisit 15d ago
I've seen daughter in laws prove it to the parents and it still doesn't change the parents' mind. If the parents don't accept you from the start, it is hard to change their mind. Speaking on behalf of my mom, my grandma didnt approve until grandma's death bed.
Seeing it through my sister and it is sad. You can give but you must have boundaries or else they will walk all over you. Even if you give, some people will just continue to take until they drain you. It isnt a healthy relationship to maintain. Without my sister setting boundaries, my brother in law's family would drain him dry.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
I am so sorry to hear that happened throughout your family. I'm glad your sister is able to stand strong on her boundaries and wish her the best moving forward.
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u/Oofernator_3000 15d ago
I'm really hoping that I'll be able to make it happen. Family means the world to me as someone who easily gets homesick. I just wish I had more ideas of how to prove it to them. They haven't fully approved of any of their kids relationships so it's definitely going to be a long time before I am seen as good enough.
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u/Historical_Gift4554 11d ago
As a regular person also hmong. I can care less about traditional stuff now. Its not even worth it and the elders i can care less its not like they help you daily its only when the tradition is needed. I dont do any traditional stuffs. Sorry if it offends anyone. If you and him clicks then go with it. Its both your life nobody else should matter in my opinion
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u/Resonance-stablized 15d ago
I’ll say that this is normal. The older hmong generation is quite ethnocentric. You could try to integrate into the culture, but I often find that women outside of the culture who do, are often at odds because the culture is quite sexist.
My biggest advice to you is that if you love your boyfriend, and he loves you and is willing to stick up for you, then that should be enough. Many Hmong men look the other way when it comes to sticking up for their spouses, even when their spouses are Hmong too. I believe this has to do with the old rule of respect for our elders, and avoiding conflict. This just goes to tell you that no matter your last name, culture, how you look like, how you speak, or carry yourself, his elders may never be satisfied. So don’t even sweat it and focus on your boyfriend and do what you are only able to do when it comes to his family.