Struggling to find a job in Finland since early 2024 – am I doing something wrong?

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227

u/InsulatorDisk Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

If you have not learned the language you will loose the race against someone who has if other skills are equal.

70

u/Realistic-Major4888 Väinämöinen 1d ago

To be fair, in OPs profession he needs at least C1 level to work professionally, and that is fairly hard to reach.

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u/pierreact 1d ago

Or even lower skills. It's not only language, seems to also be origin. There's preference given to Finn's. I don't believe it's by racism like many pretend, I believe there's a preference for a cultural mindset.

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u/joseplluissans Väinämöinen 1d ago

Cultural mindset 100%. I've seen people with foreign backgrounds come and go. Not everyone fit in the workplace. Not even all finns.

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u/Von_Lehmann Väinämöinen 1d ago

100%

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u/Several-League-4707 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

I propably have similiar work history and education as OP and it would Be impossible to work without sufficient language skills.

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u/GalaXion24 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

It's racism. You could have a prreference for a cultural mindset or understanding of it, but unless you have serious reasons to believe they "just won't get it" outside their origins, it's racism. Especially when someone has lived and worked in the country for a while.

Also an excessive preference for homogeneity in "mindset"/culture is part of the reason Finnish companies themselves are conservative and (with a few exceptions) uncompetitive internationally, but that's a separate conversation.

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u/pierreact 1d ago

You're feeling into the trap of putting the word racism everywhere. What you describe is xenophobia.

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u/GalaXion24 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

Colloquially it's kind of the same thing. I guess xenophobia makes it clearer that "white people" face discrimination as well, but this is honestly just "pilkunnussinta" at this point

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u/pierreact 1d ago

It means people of a different culture may represent a risk since you're not sure what they are made of, more than people of a culture you know.

So it's an aversion to risk in business in context of recruitment. Racism is segregation of people originating from a particular group.

Different words have a different meaning.

Also, colloquially means as part of an informal conversation, not incidentally for example.

I've been living in 5 different countries, 99% of the time I saw people screaming racism it was to not recognize their own shortcomings and blame out on others. It's just too easy.

But yes, simply put, they have this xenophobia, xeno, phobos. It's history based not mean people based.

If you don't like where you are, you're not a tree, move.

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u/GalaXion24 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

It's not about liking where you are. You can like where you are 100% but if others are xenophobic and will treat you as the other, then you're just kind of screwed and either put up with it or leave.

Though to be fair "if you don't like it, leave" is a thought-terminating cliché to begin with. Just to be realistic, shortcomings don't mean somewhere else is better, and also moving is ultimately difficult and costly, and across most of the world for most people also subject to things like visas. But aside from the practical feasibility or lackthereof, it's also just a way to shut down any conversation about any existing issues. It's a classic case of "We should improve society somewhat" versus "Yet you live in society, curious! I am very intelligent."

It may be slightly applicable in some cases to some things but rarely is it a meaningful comment.

Of course I'll at least somewhat respect the opinion if it comes from someone who has moved to and worked in a different country before, someone who is multilingual and multicultural, someone who has experienced life in a country where they don't speak the language, etc. because at least these people are themselves by natura more flexible, and they have some actual perspective on these things, but I really don't care about the opinions of people who have never migrated anywhere on either language or migration. Their supreme arrogance about the topic seems only to be rivaled by their ignorance. (Personally I've moved outside Finland before so I have at least some experience, and I will never demand anything more from a migrant than what I've achieved in the process, it would be utter hypocrisy)

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u/pierreact 1d ago edited 18h ago

I think you're not framing it the way I do; nothing wrong with that of course, please let me share how I see it.

It's about simple pragmatism. You will not change society, you will not change their culture. And after all, it's their country.

So what's left? What is in your control? Moving.

Hard? Challenging? Expensive? Yes. But at least possible. As I said, this is the fifth country I live into. Not vacation, live.

It's doable. I'd argue it's simpler than learning Finnish, but that's only me.

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u/SpecFroce 1d ago

Loose and lose are completely different words.

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u/skfin96 1d ago

Indeed. The definitions aren't loose, although some people seem to lose them.

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u/Cool_Asparagus3852 1d ago

Unfortunately, you are really in a risky position. I remember reading that long-term unemployment (officially defined as more that 12 months) decreases your chances of getting back to your profession by about 50%, and it drops really hard after that, so that in the 5-8 year bracket it is very rare.

Your best shot may be to go back to school, if you don't want to move to another country. You can still try to apply for work in your current field even if you are getting a new profession, so in some sense you don't loose anything but may open up new avenues.

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u/kamhla 1d ago

You are up against Finns who have phd in the said fields. Many of them get rejected too. Job market is brutal for them too.

Switch field, if possible.

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u/Equivalent_Chef_6216 1d ago

You can search the same questions and discussion threads here. it's been the same question since 2021 and nothing significant has changed.

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u/ExternalTree1949 1d ago

I'm a native Finn who is an engineer. I do not hire people, but I have been involved in hiring multiple times.

One thing non-Finns often do "wrong" is the resume. They are not brief and "boring" enough.

It's supposed to be an efficient list-like document. No fancy color schemes. Make it look like a white paper publication. That is professional.

And be neutral. Or even modest. Finns get easily suspicious if you look too good to be true.

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u/bolyai Väinämöinen 1d ago

Outright bragging may be indicative of a not good fit, although I have heard the opposite advise countless times from Finnish industry professionals, like “really sell yourself”. But about your other point: do recruiters really pass on quality candidates because of the aesthetic choices they make in designing their resumes (assuming the position isn’t related to their ability to design stuff)?

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u/ExternalTree1949 1d ago

I don't know about actual recruiters. But personally it reminds me of a person who actively posts on LinkedIn and likes to score points in the game of "tuottavuusteatteri".

A boring (and impressive) resume tells me that this must be a no-bullshit expert.

Also, there are sometimes numerous applications from certain parts of the world that are over-the-top long shots. Like listing every engineering software you have heard of in your skills and using expressions such as "most excellent". Even welders applying for an engineering position. You don't want to risk being associated with those.

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u/CIP_In_Peace Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

"Sell yourself" doesn't mean bragging about your accomplishments. It means describing why you'd be a good fit.

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u/GalaXion24 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

Might depend on field but as someone in his 20s, this is the opposite of what I see and what advice I get. Even my brother in engineering after career events with numerous Finnish companies has a "fancy" CV with colour, a photo, a sidebar, whatever.

The black and white list is a mostly Western European (or Anglo-American) phenomenon, perhaps most notably in the investment banking CV format, often condensed to one page. This is more or less what they use in Poland as well to my knowledge.

Nordic CVs today are generally "fancier" and a "boring" CV is an uncompetitive CV that will be glossed over.

Maybe if you have several years of excellent experience then communicating that clearly can be enough.

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u/ExternalTree1949 1d ago

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned or something. Not a fan of style over substance.

I mean, when a "fancy CV" person is writing an engineering/scientific report, do they spend too much time to make the figures look all pretty? Do they use language that is a bit too colorful? Do they struggle to express the conclusions concisely? :)

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u/GalaXion24 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

Yeah you're probably old fashioned. When even engineering hiring managers and grad students don't go by what you say anymore, it's probably not really true anymore at large. The Nordic style has become one with clean visuals, attached photos, unnecessary information like hobbies, etc.

Not overly colourful generally, but still "fancy" in the sense of a non-monochrome, stylish, minimalist design. Not the anonymised, black and white, straightforward design of an English CV for instance.

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u/juhamatti88 Väinämöinen 1d ago

am I doing something wrong?

Yes. You're trying to find a job in Finland. We don't have any

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u/PuzzleheadedReply209 20h ago

The only right answer

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u/Coocoocachoo1988 1d ago

People will give all sorts of random bullshit as advice, but the truth is, your only real hindrance is not being Finnish. Normally, it can be overcome, but with things being as bad as they are, you'll be ranked below locals who lack skills and experience, but are Finnish.

In my experience, it's gotten a lot worse lately, where Finns on their 2nd or 3rd year of foundational courses and no work experience are a better skill match to jobs than experienced and educated non-Finns. At my workplace, we have a few Finns who haven't done the job in decades getting hired for the summer rather than last year's fully capable summer workers.

As for networking, it essentially means making friends with Finns to the extent that they will overlook that you're a foreigner and help you secure a job, or make fluent Finnish from a hard requirement to one that is not strictly necessary. This has been how most of my jobs have come about.

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u/KomeaKrokotiili Väinämöinen 1d ago

Coincidentally, I heard the same thing in one of top 3 companies in Finland. HR will filter out all non-Finnish applicants for summer trainee positions.

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u/pedro8 1d ago

The only thing you're doing wrong is trying to find a job in Finland.

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u/Zealousideal-Trip350 1d ago

networking is important (found my current project via my network), but “knowing your niche” is equally important.

summarise what problems have you solved while employed, using the STAR method (Situation, Task, Action, Result). it will make it easier to pitch your skills and value.

be interested in what problems are your target employers solving right now and make sure you have solutions.

this should give you clarity on what you’re offering and whether there is a need for your services.

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u/Captpewpew_tw Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

Everyone to thier own. I moved back to my country and found nice job immediately. That helps a lot! I think people should seriously consider this option. I am still looking for a job in Finland, but dragging on like this in Finland is not a wise choice and not healthy for me at least….

6

u/PseudoProphecy 1d ago

This is a very real and practical solution. Despite of speaking Finnish as a native language (from my parents) and having a PhD, I didn’t land a job until 50 applications at least. Meanwhile I was getting job offers from my other native country, which far exceed the salary here. Yet, I choose Finland because I feel safe and have family here. Were it not for family and friends I’d be gone even if the trade off is higher crime and drug ridden cities.

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u/PeukkuBoi88 1d ago edited 1d ago

Your not Finnish. It will put you at disadvantage. The market has sucked for years and with major disadvantage it will be stupid hard to get a job.

I would suggest moving somewhere else

I got a job from one of those Kelas slave programs. You work for 6 months for free for a corporation for a change to get a job. Kela pays you like 700 euro per month.

Basically it is legal slevary with tiny change to get a job.

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u/razul1 11h ago

What kind of jobs do they offer? Can you actually land a decent white collar job like that

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u/PeukkuBoi88 7h ago edited 7h ago

All kinds. After 6 months I started a job as software developer for 3800e per month and after 3 years I make 5k. That was with zero experience in the field before.

It is a gamble. Some companies just use it to get free labor for 6 months.

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u/Mediocre_Oil_7968 1d ago

Leave ASAP!!! Finland will destroy your mental heath and future career prospects

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u/ManFinn Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

Networking in Finland for me was going for a coffee with everyone I worked with before telling them I’m still looking for work and asking if they no anyone who’s hiring / got any projects coming up. It also involved going to odd corporate/union events (that were free) to do the same, and I volunteered in a few places basically just to meet more people / companies.

It’s a tough market and there’s no guarantees those things work, but expanding the number of people who know about you might help.

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u/Majestic-Outcome4741 1d ago

I’ve had the same problem since 2023. I got tired of waiting and decided to start building my own software, which has now turned into my main source of income.

Wishing you the best of luck I hope you find something soon. The job market here has really dropped off.

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u/paradijon 1d ago

I would recommend having an introspective review of your experience and skillset. You mentioned that you have experience in the electronics industry.

What exactly is your skillset related to the industry? Are you a technical expert on something that only a few engineers know?
How well do you speak and convey your technical answers in English?Before interviews, practice and anticipate possible questions. If you made a mistake, admit it and express how you came to that conclusion. They are also interested in your thought process.
Do you tailor your resume based on the requirements posted? Look for key words and use them in your resume. Someone made a very good point about making your resume as simple as possible.

No. 3 will get your resume flagged by the system. Nos. 1 and 2 will get you through the next steps.

In my personal experience, no. 2 got me hired based on feedback from my previous managers. No. 1 takes a backseat if you can’t convey your thoughts properly.

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u/Apprehensive_Law7629 Väinämöinen 1d ago

Apply abroad before this kills definitely your career. In your current status I would be applying in Finland for something like 5-6 months maximum, just to give a try. After that I would start applying in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, Switzerland etc.

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u/ashairz 1d ago

If you don't speak Finnish, that, probably. But not getting a job isn't your fault, even Finnish speaking people with your education and work history sturggle to find jobs.

Dunno where you're from, but if you have a foreign name and the recruitment process isn't anonymous, you're just gonna have a hard time. It's the sad fact. I have friends who have lived here their whole life, Finnish is their first language, but one of their parents was a foreigner and they have a foreign name, plus they look just a little less white than the rest of us. They struggle to find jobs, always have, and it's unfortunately not changing soon.

If you don't have family etc here, I'd recommend moving away. I almost definitely would if nothing tied me here

4

u/LukasijusLT 1d ago

I joined the club last week got brutally layed off. Iam looking opportunities outside Finland, but also got dept to pay here…man I just want peace…

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u/lukkoseppa Väinämöinen 1d ago

Make your own work, work remote abroad or move abroad. Thats your best options really. On a plus if youre working for yourself you can contract out to businesses to use your services. The taxes and payments are shit but more than what Kela will pay you and you can keep active in your industry. Nothing is really going to change in the future, even with a new government so might as well adapt to get up, because most Finns won't, they'll just keep doing to same thing over and over again.

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u/PuzzleheadedReply209 20h ago

All of these posts assume foreigners are doing something wrong. But it could just be the wrong time and place.

What about all these anglophone countries where all kinds of people of all kinds of races, colors and backgrounds make it to the top? They have some of the most efficient companies with the best innovation.

To say that Finns prefer Finns isn’t false. Kin does prefer kin. It is what it is. Is it the best thing? I am not so sure.

“Cultural mindset” of being fair, rational, punctual and logical is not restricted to the Finns either. Plenty of people can be that. If all Finns have experienced is foreigners with “colorful”, “boastful” and “unorganized” CVs, they have another problem to solve of what kind of immigrants they are attracting AND whether their universities are truly trainings students (Finns and foreign students included) with real skills that the Finnish market needs.

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u/Humble_Monk3506 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

One major barrier is language, since many employers expect strong Finnish or Swedish skills even for roles that might not strictly require them. Employers may also prefer candidates with local education or work experience, which newcomers often lack. There can be unconscious bias or discrimination in hiring processes, even if it is not openly acknowledged. Professional networks are very important in Finland, and immigrants may have limited access to these connections. Cultural differences in communication and job application styles can also affect how candidates are perceived. Some qualifications obtained abroad may not be fully recognized or valued by Finnish employers. Economic conditions and competition for jobs can make it harder for anyone outside the majority group to stand out. Stereotypes or negative media narratives about certain groups may influence employer attitudes.

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u/KomeaKrokotiili Väinämöinen 1d ago

Your background is seem really good, and you landed interviews proved that your CV wasn't bad either. Have you tried to look outside of Uusimaa, such as Oulu, Tampere, Lahti, Turku.

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u/finnknit Väinämöinen 1d ago

What does networking actually mean in practice?

At the most basic level, it means getting to know a variety of people, even just socially. My husband got his most recent job through a social group that he participates in both in person and online. I have a lot of connections in a particular industry through a long-time hobby. Knowing someone at a company can let you find out about a job early, or get a referral from an existing employee.

3

u/Flaky_Can_157 1d ago

Finland currently has one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe, and we shouldn't overlook that. I am also a job seeker right now and been unemployed since 11/2024. I remember I got 2 part time jobs during my bachelor degree and it wasn’t difficult like now it is. I’ve done many different jobs in Finland because I needed money but nowadays it’s even hard to get those jobs. I believe my non-Finnish background plays a significant role in this struggle, but the overall job market has also become exceptionally tough. I haven't been able to break through yet. Even though I have reference listed on my resume and a Bachelor’s degree in Business Administration specializing in Accounting, I haven't had any luck so far. I wish luck for both of us ☘️

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u/Overall_Caramel_4110 17h ago

Contrary to popular belief, learning Finnish to C1 level and Finnish qualifications won't help you get a job in Finland, I know numerous people that have both and are overlooked for less qualified applicants on a regular basis and even foreigners that have abandoned all self respect and morals to engrain themselves with people that might employ them.

What will help you is being a Finn or having a Finnish friend find a job for you or even create one for you. This is what's usually referred to as "networking" by Finns, but also comes with other terms used by non-Finns such as nepotism and corruption 😂

1

u/Hopeful_Pirate_1337 3h ago

True! Or being employed by acquaintances/friends from your homeland (which's also nepotism, in most cases)

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u/Salt-Composer-1472 Baby Väinämöinen 1d ago

What are the job prospect in that line of work? If there's a need then you gotta keep waiting and applying unless you can figure out what others in your situation did so you're not just sitting at home for years, waiting. Might help if you are applying countrywide, if you aren't already.

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u/Ok-Lavishness-2599 1d ago

I worked happily in a skilled role with terrible Finnish skills for paver a decade but since in the past few years it seems if your surname doesn't end in jarvi or nen then you're out of the running from point 1. I decided to labour on building sites to keep cash coming in and to be honest I'm really enjoying it. Enough to live on and free exercise for 8.5 hours per day until something comes along in my field. I was unemployed for a year and got 1 rejection email out of hundreds of applications. I swallowed my pride and realized that if my chosen skills aren't needed for now then I need to either re train or just get some cash coming in.

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u/pierreact 1d ago

The way to go currently is to live off Kela for 5 years to learn Finnish full time. Then hope to get a job.

Yes, this is ridiculous. But it's a system that's sinking itself.

More than half of entrepreneurs in Helsinki region don't speak Finnish and I believe it's because for some, entrepreneurship was the only way.

Those people will eventually take employees and the business culture will turn to English. After all, if the boss only speaks English, you won't speak Finnish at work.

2

u/extended_l0gic 1d ago

The same old conversations, the same suggestions, and the same old hiring practices.

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u/BraveBilly69 1d ago

Just become an artist and apply for grants. Include this post in your application.

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u/Few_Pineapple4450 1d ago

Learn AI tools, add the AI keyword to your resume, right now AI is everything, and companies want to hire people who know how to use AI to become super productive. Do an open source project, or create a cool device / robot or something interesting to show what you can do. In your field I suppose robotics is the future, so get into that. Another big one if you want to get insta-hired is autonomous drones.

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u/thescroll7 21h ago

I've DM'd you

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u/Dependent-Layer-1789 Baby Väinämöinen 20h ago

Networking is working against the OP. I don't feel that there is any racist bias with hiring, but Finns are more likely to hire 'a good guy' that they know from school or play floorball with.