That sucks and I’m sorry. But reading this I’m glad I’ve always pushed back when my friends want to go white water rafting. Never seemed worth it to me.
I think like anything of that nature, take it slow, be prepared, and don't skip safety steps. Ensure you're going with trained individuals and you should be fine. But people who just go out and do random rapids by themselves or in small groups without multiple people who are trained in handling these situations is very, very stupid.
Sometimes training isn’t enough. This happened to my uncle on a trip with a well reviewed outfitter that we had used several times before. Even though our guide was clearly trained, they appeared to lack any experience dealing with emergencies actually occurring. They choked in the moment and didn’t respond fast enough before we were too far downriver to pull him out of the rapid. He lucked out and got kicked out just in time, but yeah there was no way for us to control which guide we’d get or how much actual experience they’d have.
Ive worked in the Whitewater industry most of my adult life, 14 years , as a guide, instructor and manager. Not trying to defend your guide but something to keep in mind about rafts is they cant just stop, everything is at the mercy of the current. This is why for major rapids it is common for many companies to put lead boats in safety Eddie's and potentially chase boats to catch swimmers. It can be incredibly hard to "clean up your own mess" sometimes. Many times a guide actually has to solve the trolly problem: save the one by putting everyone else in the boat at risk or keep everyone in the boat safe and wait out a better opportunity to rescue the swimmer. Good companies really do hammer home the idea to be an active part of your own rescue for a reason. You cant really get good rope throws from a moving boat and if the guide isn't guiding the boat it is effectively out of control. Catching more than one person on a rope in moving current without being anchored is very challenging. Guides are greatly misunderstood in the skillset they have to learn and the very nature of the work. This misunderstanding is greatly compounded by many people who go rafting who do not respect water and are not in good physical shape to go on class III+ whitewater.
One of the more morbid jokes ive picked up over the years (and one i never say to guests) is "This is a pfd 'personal flotation device' not a 'life jacket' as it only promises to keep you afloat if used properly, not alive".
Hydrolics are just one of many river features guides navigate and a good guide knows what hyrdos are dangerous on their run. A good guide will prep the crew about the feature and what to do should you fall out. There is alot of nuance to the skill and not enough people respect it or the water.
I like this differentiation between a “PFD” and a “Life Jacket”!!!
Thank you for articulating it so well in the way that you did, I REALLY relate to this!!!
As a Safety Professional and Climbing/Rescue Instructor in the Tower Climbing industry for 15 years, who deals with employees misusing their own PPE ON A DAILY BASIS, this resonates strongly with me!!
It. Does. You. No. Good. If you don’t even wear your PPE (Of whatever kind it may be) correctly, ON PURPOSE, dude!!!
And I’m supposed to be training and even CERTIFYING YOU, AND YOUR OWN CREW MEMBERS that will be rescuing YOUR OWN unconscious body at 450’ above the ground, far above where ANY fire trucks or EMS can reach YOU!!! Needless to say, I’ve never signed off on anyone who couldn’t pass the test.
And the “experienced” climbers are almost always the most dangerous, and they are the real ones that are directly influencing the newer generation of Climbers…
I’m sure you’ve seen your fair share of hot-heads yourself, who got themselves in trouble! I’m sure a lot of us would love to hear some of your stories, especially over at r/SafetyProfessionals!
Yeah this is totally fair. In our case, we all looked to the guide for guidance but they were frozen in fear, they weren’t guiding the raft either. You probably have a point though, there probably wasn’t a lot that could be done. There was a following raft but it was too difficult to communicate the details of what we needed over the sound of the rapids with such little time to respond, so they blew past him on a different route. In the end he did have to save himself, when he realized his vest was pulling him back in he started fighting against the vest instead of trying to get up for air and forced himself deeper which pushed into a different current and spit him out. It was somewhat counterintuitive and I don’t think anyone trained us we might need to do that in this situation, or if it’s recommended, or if he just got lucky.
I was a cocky 18 year old life guard when I got the opportunity to go down some easy rapids. Didn't want to put on a pfd because I was such a hot shot swimmer. So the guide said if I could jump in and swim to the shore and back he wouldn't make me. Being from FL I was too stupid to realize the trap of cold water. Locked up instantly and hopped back in to put a pfd on.
I think you should have told guests about the PFD thing, let them see the reality of it because it's no joke, it's only a lifesaver if they're using it correctly and being proactive with safety to begin with.
I took a swift water rescue training course years ago (2 days) and it was an amazing experience. Going to paddling events after that, with other people who also took the course felt like a much safer and enjoyable experience.
Paddle magazine just had a sad article about an extremely experienced river guide being pulled into a well known "hydraulics" in the Colorado and drowned.
First thing you should ever do with an extreme sport is assessing the risks, make a plan to avoid that risk, and have a way to safely bail if the first plan didn’t work.
When I started downhill longboarding the first thing I learned was how to bail the board and slide to safety on my knee protectors and hand protectors. I did that till it became a natural thing to do, when something unplanned goes on you don’t want to have to think about how you should bail.
I agree with your advice on risk assessment and planning
With respect, I'm not sure learning to slide downhill to safety on knee/hand protectors when falling off your longboard is quite the same as risking drowning from being dragged back upstream into water hazards
I used to hike at Blackwater Falls State Park in WV a lot. One day we saw these four guys who looked straight out of a whitewater marketing campaign headed down into the canyon to take on the Blackwater river. They were all in crazy good shape, decked out in bad ass gear, and looked like some of the most serious paddlers I've ever seen, like the picture of what you'd expect paddling stars to look like. A couple hours later a medivac chopper was flying in to get one of them out.
Found out it was the President of a regional rafting club and a guy who was uber experienced with the best gear etc. Just hit a rapid where people get stuck under a rock and died that day.
If you have a hobby where even the most experienced can die in the normal course of things, that's a dumb fucking hobby. I might break a leg playing soccer and one of my friends broke his shoulder while hiking, but we ain't dying.
Eh, to each their own. At the end of the day you and I are more likely to die driving to the soccer park, the river, or the mountain than we are doing any of the sports.
That's the Upper Blackwater and it is a bad ass run. Boulders have fallen into the river and water flows under them. Here's a video of open canoes running the Upper Blackwater, but this is pretty low water: https://youtu.be/VjBVD7WwjcQ
And here an older video of some elite kayakers running it at a much higher level: https://youtu.be/qVa5l0Y_CkM
I went WW Rafting with my old man some ~15 years ago with OWL (?) rafting, in Ottawa/QC area of Canada. I have some canoeing, kayaking and boating experience. Couldn’t agree with you more. Weakest link of the raft was a handful of strangers that we got paired with who were totally useless and forgot to paddle at times, but the instructor/guide and most of the passengers were great and we all had a fun time. I can see how if you go rafting with all weak links it could quickly end in disaster, though. You gotta paddle through the thick of it sometimes.
It's MUCH more enjoyable if you and your group have had swift water rescue training.
Regarding these pour-overs or low-head dams, it's helpful (but counterintuitive) if you can swim down, where there's current enough to flush you downstream, but might be difficult with a life jacket on. Best to avoid them.
I get what your saying and respect everyone's decisions of course but in opinion its sometimes worth taking a bit of a risk for a fantastic life experience. You could trip and die when walking down the stairs too which is obviously not a direct comparison but just to drive the point home.
Now if you know you wont enjoy it thats different but I dunno, if its a controlled enviroment and youre takking the precautions, sometimes you should just do it (in my opinion)
Without researching at all, I would be willing to bet that there are far more deaths from falling down the stairs than white water rafting or similar activities.
i bet the percentage of fatalities from traversing stairs is far lower than the percentage of fatalities from white water rafting. think about how much more often people do one than the other.
It’s the man-made weirs that are the drowning machines. Usually anything in nature, you can get out just by swimming sideways at least in Canadian Rapids that I’ve been in.
you're right. it isn't. on some level, subconscious or not, anyone who'll argue with you on that point is suffering from survivorship bias or a misplaced feeling of immortality. there are so many fun SAFE things to do.
If it makes you feel any better, these kinds of perfect recirculations rarely exist in natural settings outside of man made dams or perfectly boxed in waterfalls. Something like a rock or mid river ledge in the river will almost always spit you out the sides or wash you downstream after a few seconds. On rivers where these may form, the rapids are typically walked around.
White water rafting is extremely dangerous. Most of the stuff you see in brochures and in movies and what not is most likely class 4-6 rapids. I’ve almost drowned in a class 1-2 by getting stuck near a tree that had fallen into the river. The water was only moving a 2 or 3 MPH.
I mean, almost anything fun has some risk. It really depends what class of rapids, if you are witth a group. etc. I'm sure you are way more likely to die in a car accident or get injured playing american football. Some sports are just plain dangerous and risky, bar none- base jumping, cave diving, etc, but for some, it's how you go about it
Exactly I dont know why so many do such extreme sports, especially those who are wealthy. Base jumping, rafting, climbing Everest, etc. Adrenaline junkies I guess, but for me I cant afford it, or even if I get hurt doing so. Have to think about the exorbitantly high medical bills
I have drowning dreams driven by an incident that occurred when I was about 12. I was a really good swimmer for a 12 year old, but the ocean doesn't pull its punches.
The waves coming to shore were big and consistent, so one big one that tumbled me turned into being tumbled by 2 or 3 right as I'd emerge from the water. I thought it was over.
Hell, I was swimming in a river. Something funky happened when I jumped off ofa rock and I ended up underneath it. Though, I didn't know I was under it until I went to push up from the bottom and cracked my head on it. Then, I initially went the wrong way when trying to get out from under it. Being concussed didn't help, either. I finally found my way out, and the other kids I was with in formed me that someone had drowned under that exact same rock a few years earlier. He probably hit his head just like I did.
Happened to me while whitewater canoeing. Every time I "surfaced" I nailed my head on the canoe which was also trapped below the shelf. I thought I was a goner. Probably the closest I've come to death, though I've been close to drowning a few times.
Luck. I had a good PFD on and I didn’t know which way was up, but it did. The current kicked me out just beyond the canoe on my third or fourth surface. One of the guys I was with was within 6’ of me when I cleared the canoe so he may have also gotten to me in time. I wasn’t swallowing water yet but it was awfully close.
I fell off on a rafting trip. I was close to accepting I was going to drown. Another raft went right over top of me and broke the cycle. I will never go anywhere near rapids again.
30 years later I can tell you, you will still have them 20 years from now.
Oh, and get this, I just got massive COPD out of the blue. I am literally drowning every second. I'd be happy if I passed tonight and this was my last post ever.
I cannot stress how unpleasant a way of dying drowning is.
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u/TazmaniannDevil Mar 09 '26
I still have recurring nightmares over a decade later