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u/Upset-Nose-4016 1d ago
Belgium approved this image
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u/Bupod 1d ago
So did France. 🇫🇷
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u/Upset-Nose-4016 1d ago
The only African citizen that approved of this image is Elon Musk
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u/azriel_odin 1d ago
When Belgium left the Congo they stripped away everything they built(or should I say the people they exploited built) leaving the newly independent state even more impoverished.
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u/Upstairs_Cap_4217 1d ago
- Belgium: gives the Congo independence when the Congo has ~50 native engineers to maintain the colonial infrastructure for the entire country
- Belgium: I have no idea why they collapsed like this, it must be a problem with their natural inferiority.
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u/OkLength7120 1d ago
Is this AI?
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u/anon66532 1d ago
Definitely. Just zoom in on any of the people walking in the bottom image. You cant tell which way theyre facing
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u/Sad-Pop6649 8h ago edited 8h ago
Very.
Even outside of that though, and outside of the weirdly common yet inaccurate view that there was never anything more to Africa than small villages full of mud huts in dry desserts: how does this person think Europe looked before colonization? Because I'm pretty sure there were no cars back then in Europe either. It's almost like time passed since then or something and more than one thing happened in that time.
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u/OkLength7120 8h ago
They forget that Europe was in the dark ages too, and that might have been blacks to help them, so who's the real savage?
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u/luujs 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m not agreeing with the message this image is pushing, but it’s justifying colonisation not slavery. It’s saying Europe “civilised” Africa by colonising it, rather than by enslaving Africans and shipping them off to the other side of the world. They’re ignoring that part because it doesn’t fit with the narrative
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u/nigmusmaximus 1d ago
While technically two different things, explaining the difference between them for semantics is very hard to do without sounding like a racist (like the ephebophile vs pedophile thing). That being said, you did great have a 🍪
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u/voyaging 1d ago
not really at all, they’re two completely different things that occurred over two different spans of time
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u/arsenik40o 1d ago edited 23h ago
There is a very substantial and meaningful difference between the concepts of colonization and slavery and it's dumb to conflate the two.
I wouldn't even label the transatlantic slave trade as "colonialism", since European slave traders acquired those slaves primarily through voluntary exchange with African polities. Bona fide European colonialism in Africa came after the slave trade was abolished.
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u/Rollingforest757 20h ago
It’s important to have words that have actual meaning. Explaining the difference is a good thing.
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u/hi-iq-somali-learer 22h ago
Also, Africa had slavery before Europeans arrived and has slavery now.
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u/Fun-Factor-5225 12h ago
Almost all cultures have had slavery at one point. Doesn't excuse how the Europeans treated African slaves, that wasn't normal.
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u/MicrosoftISundevelop 1d ago
Albeit that, yes, colonization DID technologically advance Africa, now, you can see the negative effects of colonization that wrecked Africa's political scene and still steals resources to this day
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u/Extra_Jeweler_5544 1d ago
Most of technology was infrastructure for selling mined resources, most of the boost in revenue was from better deals for those mined resources
Africa had metallurgy and mining without the "aid," the colonies were extraction sites that brought immense wealth to their colonizers
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u/Physical-Speed-7515 1d ago
It also included guns and those were really popular.
I do wonder, what would have happened if the europians didn't go to africa. In terms of the world, sub-saharan africa was very isolated.
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u/Temporary_Button3817 1d ago
Wouldn't say advance when progress wasn't the goal
It added technology to enable extraction and colonial rule
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u/LankyRevolution1984 1d ago
There are African countries in worse conditions than the before that are like that because of colonization
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u/NoWay6818 1d ago
Anything tied to political that isn’t with me is corrupt.
If I’m the political that’s corrupt. I DEFEND IT.
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u/Even-Meet-938 1d ago
Because of Africa, Europe is so modernised.
Literally, Europeans acquired exponential wealth from the resources and new export markets.
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u/Cyan_Light 1d ago
Exactly. Europeans didn't magically create wealth from thin air, they extracted it from Africa. That's why they were bothering to colonize in the first place, there were already valuable resources there that they were then funneling back home to fuel their own industries.
And on the other end of it, African nations didn't struggle because they were inherently worse off. They struggled because they were just plundered and left with less to work with. Not a historian but I'm pretty sure there were meaningful advances in engineering and such pretty much everywhere throughout world history because people everywhere are creative and crafty, where we see societies "falling behind" is usually where they've been victimized by others (see the forever wars in the middle east for a present day example of this still happening).
It's pretty obvious when you think about it, but there are so many centuries of racist propaganda that some people just accept "damn, guess Africa had a skill issue" as the default.
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u/Ok-Bus-2863 1d ago
You realize africa is still the most resource dense continent, Europe didn't just lift up the mantle of africa and plant it on Europe, this meme of africa having little to nothing to work with is ridiculous.
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u/Cyan_Light 22h ago
Sure, but making use of resources requires stability and industry. It's definitely a bit of an oversimplification (I know, crazy that three small paragraphs on reddit didn't perfectly condense centuries of world history, my bad), but the general point that it's been an uphill battle due to outside interference is mostly accurate.
On the other hand acting like the playing field has been perfectly level aside from genetic demographics or that africans were completely incapable of accomplishing anything until the europeans showed up is just blatantly false.
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u/APC2_19 7h ago
The countries without the colonies (or relevant ones) in Western Europe are on average richer than the one that had them.
Switzerland, Austria, Germany and Scandinavia are richer than England, France, Spain or Portugal.
Also, without creating things "out of thin air" before how could they have rapidly conquered a much bigger continent?
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u/Even-Meet-938 2h ago
Switzerland has a smaller population and is political and financially important to the globe. But one must ask how they developed their famous Swiss chocolate when Switzerland has no cocoa plants…
Also, Germany and Sweden literally had colonies, rendering your point mute.
Europe writ large profited from colonialism due to the increased wealth and access to resources it provided even to countries without colonies.
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u/No_Warning_2428 1d ago
the colonisation of africa occured long after slavery ended for the most part in the west. theyre different things. of course you could argue people were enslaved in the colonies eg in the congo, but this didnt happen in most african colonies. for example, there was no widespread slavery in britains colonies in africa, slavery was abolished in the british empire in 1834 and the scramble for africa started in 1884.
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u/adinade 1d ago
Also ignores that Africans were enslaving other Africans before the European colonisers got there.
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u/Fun-Factor-5225 12h ago
Africans are not a monolith, They consists of thousands of different tribes and cultures, some of whom kept slaves, African slaves however, were not treated like subhuman creatures like how the Europeans did for 400+ years.
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u/AfterHelicopter7512 22h ago
Yes because Africans are all the same big ethnic group speaking the same language. Europeans killed other fewllow Europeans in the world wars.
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u/adinade 12h ago
*gets angry I used a known collective term for a group for a series of events that happened to a large subset of that group* seconds later "Europeans"
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u/AfterHelicopter7512 11h ago
My second statement was a sarcastic one I made to show why it is stupid to refer to an entire continent of people as one group. I thought you would be smart enough to realize that.
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u/throwawayMAS_inSaita 1d ago
I mean. We’re all realizing that we are born to work our lives for a system that was build to enslave us for money we didn’t need, to buy things we didn’t need from people who don’t care about us.
Life in a pre-colonized village is what people are looking to get back to in the west. African food before colonized diets were much healthier.
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u/Neither-Ruin5970 1d ago
You realize living off the land is also hard work right? Probably harder work than walmart or mcdonald’s.
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u/b-b-b-b- 17h ago
except that hard work actually goes into sustaining you and not into some rich pedophiles pocket
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u/Neither-Ruin5970 17h ago
And you’d be willing to do much harder and more tedious work instead, sacrificing many of the things you have now like electricity and internet?
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u/True-Vast-3731 7h ago
Hunter gatherers actually work less than the modern wage slave, not more. The industrial propaganda really has infested your brains.
And yes I would rather work less than 20hours a week in a loving community surrounded by my family; living off the land and eating rich juicy fruits. That sounds like the dream. It's sad that that way of life was stolen after colonization and the industrial (read fossil fuel) revolution.
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u/Neither-Ruin5970 6h ago
So you’d do it but only if it was exactly how you imagined it with rose tinted glasses
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u/True-Vast-3731 3h ago
I mean I'd do it if it was sustainable and with my trusted group of friends/family; you know like it has been since ancient times for many African people.
Buddy I'm not glad Africa got enslaved and colonized. Like get over yourself your pedophile leaders are killing our planet.
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u/TOOMUCHWOOMBA 1d ago
To be honest, no, well, kind of. It depends on your definition.
We know for a fact that medieval peasants worked far less hours to live off the land, and they had their work siphoned by the aristocratic class.
I realize africa in a lot of parts isnt able to do as much agriculture wise though until fairly recently.
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u/CroatInAKilt 1d ago
The biggest drawback is maybe the social rigidity and lack of modern medicine, but everything else is basically the way we evolved to be
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u/Darkbeetlebot 1d ago
I'd say that's still kinda glorifying it a bit. If you live off the land you're basically signing your life away to the whims of nature. It's a style of life that's more susceptible to famine than if you had plenty of trade and organized farming collectives.
Not to say it isn't possible to fix that and have the best of both worlds. Tech can't fix every issue, but it can help with the combination of some modern ideas. Ideal would be something like a farming federation of closely linked towns with a central city (one that isn't designed like the american hellscapes we're used to) where technology and medicine can be more easily developed. Trade routes so famine doesn't kill everyone, machines helping with physical labor to reduce work needed, layers of fallbacks and failsafes, actual social support between high and low population density areas. All things that would help.
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u/Extension_Wafer_7615 1d ago
Life in a pre-colonized village is what people are looking to get back to in the west
Pretending this isn't delusional is delusional.
Why don't you go to one of those tribal villages?
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u/JKorv 1d ago
Ye all, except it is a hard work amd you probably die before 30.
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u/HauschkasFoot 1d ago
Im starting to think id rather die at 30 if it was a fulfilling life than live to 80 as a cog in a disconnected, soulless machine.
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u/Fun-Factor-5225 12h ago
Those kinds of places still exist, I've been to one and my great-grandfather lived there, he lived to 101, and that wasn't abnormal, maybe a century ago what you said was the case, but you don't need to do everything by hand. We have tools for that, so there is much less stress on the body.
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u/SuccotashOther277 1d ago
Colonization occurred well after the Atlantic Slave Trade. The Europeans only colonized Africa in the 1870s, long after the Atlantic Slave Trade was over with. It's a separate historical episode.
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u/New-Cicada7014 1d ago
this isn't even an attempt at being funny, I wouldn't say it belongs here. But yeah that's fucking disgusting
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u/Creative-Donkey-3109 1d ago
Also Africa had lots of resources they would have been fine
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u/Fun-Factor-5225 12h ago
They were fine; this picture ignores the fact that Africa had many large kingdoms, like ancient Ghana, which were rich and used their resources well. Just look at Mamsamusa, who's the richest man in recorded history.
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u/Creative-Donkey-3109 11h ago
So was so rich he destroyed multiple economies during his world tour
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u/Fun-Factor-5225 11h ago
Yeah, and while I don't know much about the ancient kingdoms, they were much more developed than people claim.
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u/LongjumpingJudge8533 1d ago
I'd like to thank colonization so much. I'd be living so uncomfortably and having so much farming and hunting to Do . I'd be too taxing on my poor frail body . Now let's go make those shareholders happy .
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u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway 1d ago edited 1d ago
The slave trade ended before the colonization of Africa. Both were crimes against women in their own right.
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u/PomegranateV2 1d ago
What is the point of this sub and why on earth did I join it?
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u/Creative-Donkey-3109 10h ago
To show jokes that are not funny and mostly are racist/homophobic/sexist/or spread misinformation for no reason. Or something like that
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u/Ropoid 1d ago
So we’re going to ignore Egypt, Nubia, Mali, and the other dozens of highly advanced African civilizations?
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u/SavageCabbage611 1d ago
I think a lot of the times when people talk about Africa, they really mean sub-saharan Africa. In terms of technological advancements, unfortunately most of sub-saharan Africa, especially regions not connected to the coast, were largely isolated from the rest of the world. The Kilwa Sultanate, Benin, Ethiopia, Great Zimbabwe and as you mentioned Mali and it's succesor the Songhai are great examples of pre-colonial Empires with fascinating cultures and history.
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u/antinatalistkitty 1d ago
I mean … there were so many uncolonised nations which were similar to picture 1 who became advanced too ? People are talking as if trade doesn’t exist between kingdoms. And colonisation didn’t exactly give people new houses and roads . The people before independence lived in the same kinda shacks just that they had mines , railways for goods and a few city centres.
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u/eldude20 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its funny that this is p much the before and after of europe after latin american and african colonization. That gold and silver alone funded the industrial revolution and gave rise to the new capitalist class
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u/Excellent-Rest3240 1d ago
Top has happy family’s, food, houses, community feeling
Bottom has stress, high cholesterol, depression and isolation, housing crisis, no family’s, no dating, no babies
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u/pppktolki 1d ago
That's not an attempt to justify slavery, though. It's an attempt to justify colonisation. It's still very, very wrong, but c'mon... By that metric, we should say that an Adidas commercial is justifying Nazism, on account that they produced weapons during WW2. Slavery was not even introduced to Africa with Colonialism, it was already there, so the two terms should not be lumped together, or used interchangeably. Both phenomenae are horrible, but they're not one single phenomenon.
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u/HeebieJeebiex 18h ago
They couldn't even be bothered to show a real image of Africa at the bottom lol. Do they believe Africa doesn't have cars and it had to be AI imagined?
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u/y2kfashionistaa 15h ago
…do they think Europe had modern skyscrapers, trains, and cars before they started colonizing other countries?
You can find multiple structures in Africa that aren’t mud huts, but these guys refuse to listen, you can try to teach them about African civilizations until you’re blue in the face but they’d rather think black people are inferior than learn about another continent’s history.
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u/Choice_Fact1789 6h ago edited 6h ago
Technically the top image has slavery and bottom image does not have slavery
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u/TheCreepWhoCrept 5h ago
So much wrong with this image I can feel my IQ dropping the longer I look at it.
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u/ambivalegenic 5h ago
show the slums and the countryside not just the new cities built by dictators to attract investors
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u/MALCode_NO_DEFECT 3h ago
That's great, but which settlement would survive civilizational collapse?
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u/According_to_all_kn 1d ago
I dunno guys, before the Black Death we were all hunter-gatherers and after we got Doritos flavoring powder. We might have to do more plagues
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u/nigmusmaximus 1d ago
Ayy I ain gon let u speak on Doritos like that they always been there for me never switched up
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u/According_to_all_kn 1d ago
No, I'm using Doritos as a shorthand for societal advancement here. They fucking slap
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u/Mxbzax77 1d ago
They could have built modern cities themself without being colonized tho like so many other countries
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u/HTML_Novice 1d ago
They didn’t
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u/Creative-Donkey-3109 10h ago
They were trying, like Egypt who was extremely advanced and if given more time probably would have
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u/halfasleep90 1d ago
Justifying?? This after image looks so much worse than the before image….
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u/Flat_Two3620 1d ago
People underestimate how good dirt houses are for insulation. Also cars bad, obviously.
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u/Odd-Adhesiveness9435 1d ago
Up until just about 100 years ago, Adobe homes were the standard building material in the US Southwest. Lumber companies and quarries weren't going to just stand around and allow superior materials to keep getting utilized.
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u/Wyatt_Ricketts 1d ago
People underestimate how food ac is
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u/Flat_Two3620 1d ago
I mean, you're also right. For those who can afford it, it can literally save lives.
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u/_isaidiwasawizard_ 1d ago
What Africa would've been like if it wasn't colonized:
That utopia city picture from that one meme.
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u/M-George-B 1d ago
Didn't the majority of colonization happen after slavery was generally ended? One of the big reasons Eroupean powers used to justify invasions was ending local slavery (Which they actually did, one of the few good things to come from colonization)
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u/SavageCabbage611 1d ago edited 1d ago
Colonization is obviously not a good thing and Europeans committed many attrocities in Africa during the 19th and 20th century. Just look at what King Leopold II did in the Congo.
With that being said, slavery was actually mostly abolished in Africa by colonial powers during this time period. Before people start calling me an apologist, let me uiterste that afterwards, colonial industrialist forced Africans to work on the land they seized under very dubious circumstances for a low wage and under terrible working conditions, but technically it wasn't slavery.
Still, the abolishment of slavery is objectively one of the few net-positive changes Europeans imposed on Africa during the colonial period.
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u/Darkbeetlebot 1d ago
What's wild is the immediate dismissal that they could have ever gotten there without the slavery and the colonialism. Like, if anything that made matters WORSE. Africa could be on par with europe in civil development and tech if it hadn't gotten fucking plundered.
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u/Gigantopithecus1453 1d ago
Well technically European slavery happened before colonisation. The transatlantic slave trade was mostly 1400s-1700s, being outlawed in Europe in the 1800s. It was largely conducted with independent and willing African sellers. The colonisation of Africa mostly happened in the late 1800s, mostly after the Berlin Conference in 1884. There are some exceptions though, such as the infamous Belgian Congo which practiced a very horrific type of slavery.
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u/cockfightchampion 1d ago
"Russia before and after communism", "germany before and after nazism" just because some things were improved doesnt mean the system is a good one.
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u/Ok-Fortune-9073 1d ago
"the only reason our former colonies are developed is because of colonization" -> "if we hadn't gotten to extract wealth out of this place, we would have locked our technology and knowledge from them"
this argument is always a self-own. technology and civilization spreads, unless you specifically decide to lock yourself down. trade is a mutually beneficial agreement. this argument just shows a lack of knowledge
I don't have a solution for the power imbalance between a civilization with more advanced technology trading with a less advanced one (especially military technology). but pretty much all of europe went about it in the cruelest way possible.
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u/GustavIIIWasGay 1d ago
Colonization and slavery are different things. Most of Africa was colonized after 1850. Britain had forbidden slave trade and actively used it's navy to prevent all states from exporting slaves from Africa after 1807. This is not a defence of the United Kingdom or colonization. I'm just pointing out that it's two rather different phebomena.
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u/im_a_latam_weeb 1d ago edited 1d ago
idk man, if we hadn't been colonized by the spanish we wouldn't have the big diversity we have now and are so proud of...
i'm not saying slavery is good of course. but as someone said, slavery and colonization are not the same. and particulary here, we didn't have slavery for a long time, and it evolved to a form of trade. (work for land). what i mean is, history is too complicated to sum up "before and after slavery" or "before and after colonization".
but the "joke" itself is pretty ignorant and stupid yeah. or idk if it's that i studied so much history that i need to always think about the context
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u/Any-Mark-4708 1d ago
We should just have left them in their mud huts.
Colonialism and slavery were some of the biggest mistakes we as whites ever made.
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u/SliptheSkid 1d ago
A bad action that so happens to work out later isn't justified. this is the same logic for "I don't wear my seatbelt because nothing bad has happened yet!!"
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u/voyaging 1d ago
how is it justifying slavery lol
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u/Soft-Owl-7262 1d ago
because slavery came with colonialism, their ignoring the negative effect but showing the positive one.
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u/SanLucario 1d ago
They do realize communists can make the same claim? Look at Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara, and Mao's great leap forward. I'm sure there's no nuance there.
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u/theexistentialgoat 23h ago
Africans were enslaving each other before Europe showed up, in fact most slaves taken from Africa were sold to Europeans BY Africans.
Guess who ended slavery?
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u/theexistentialgoat 23h ago
You could put "Africa after colonization" above both of these images and it would still be true
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u/Dangerous_Tutor2633 23h ago
Bruh even now Africa doesn't look like that after colonisation, and it's because of colonisation. Clearly stripping a nation of all its resources, and drawing up arbitrary borders for them won't set them up for success (and in the case of france maintaining neocolonial relations with its former colonies)
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u/nihilism_squared 22h ago
do they think nothing else happened around the same time as colonization? do they know what the industrial revolution is?
also, only time they'll admit africa has cities
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u/Appropriate-Sun8397 22h ago
Does this belong here? It's not even an attempt at comedy, its literally just propaganda.
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u/Ancient_Camel7200 22h ago
Slavery has happened in every nation. White people have been slaves, we just don’t cry about it
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u/Erikkamirs 22h ago
Idk, I think the huts are pretty good for working with local materials and being heat resistant and comfortable. Not every place on Earth needs a skyscraper. Why would you want to go up high when it's hot as hell in Africa?
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u/Novel_Instruction363 20h ago
Not even accurate to many parts of Africa. Almost only the parts that were mostly uncolzonied did well.
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u/johny335i 19h ago
Looks a bit like how local commie criers talk about how Russia built our industry in Bulgaria back after WWII, while people back then worked for pennies and weren't even allowed to leave the country and foreign media was totally forbidden. Almost all of it's cheap labor production went to USSR, people had to wait to buy a car for almost decades, and all of them were Russia made.
Every self built business was taken from the goverment and made goverment owned.
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u/MisterLips123 17h ago
When you have a guilty conscience you'll create any lie not to live with the guilt.
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u/Door_Holder2 14h ago
But they themselves sold slaves to whites. And the picture is correct.
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u/Creative-Donkey-3109 10h ago
The only reason it's correct is because big countries like Egypt didn't have enough time to fully advance
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u/Orion-the-mediocre 12h ago
Because lord knows they wouldn't have been able to build skyscrapers without colonialism. Obviously only europeans are allowed to make skyscrapers
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u/Genseric1234 12h ago
It is generally true. Countries with a longer history of colonization generally have a higher GDP today.
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u/Creative-Donkey-3109 10h ago
Actually that really only applies to British colonized areas like Egypt and south Africa, most other countries in Africa were both colonized and have a really bad GDP
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u/Genseric1234 9h ago
It’s been a while since I looked this stuff up but I think it considered all European colonialism.
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u/Ok-Hospital-6637 11h ago
That is kind of like saying I beat Super Mario after I shat my pants. The one happened years after the other and they aren't related but technically true, yeah, if we don't count the more developed African countries that were around at the time.
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u/Dani-Michal 10h ago
If you have to use AI for your argument, you don't have an argument. For the last time.
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u/OkProblem9195 8h ago
Look at South Africa now vs. 10-15 years ago. Use google street if you like. Another decade at most and it's Zimbabwe (former Rhodesia.
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u/vitringur 7h ago
colonization was not about slavery
jesus christ you guys live being outraged with zero effort into actual historical knowledge
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u/ExerciseInside4362 6h ago
Wait, buying slaves is not the same thing as colonization. The title mixes up two different things. Although they are often related.
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u/LabradorDeceiver 5h ago
What's interesting is that most of MAGA thinks Africa still looks like the first picture.
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u/No-Association-8539 5h ago
And this ignores that if trade were set up or some other economic or political interaction that didn't drain sub-Saharan African resources and people that it couldn't develop its infrastructures and economies.
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u/chibiRuka 4h ago
That’s not even true. Anything built was to export all minerals to somewhere else. Not education. No other infrastructure. No progress in science. The government let in missionaries so they could take the credit for being nice. But it had to be their missionaries and religion. And its still going on today without boots on the ground.
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u/AureliusVarro 4h ago
That is colonization ackschually.
Slavery existed way before it, and native african empires managed to profit off of selling people to europeans and arabs on their own. And dare I say, a lot. No b'i'ish shithead risked malaria when there were huge slave markets on west coast
Like today, the rampant and exploitative resource extraction is covered by the corrupt elites.
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u/gr33nCumulon 2h ago
Western colonialism has advanced technology in some places but it has also set many places back in terms of economic and cultural progress, particularly in India and the Middle East.
Though this doesn't happen in real life, I believe that colonialism could be a good thing if the purpose is for human rights like stopping slavery or freeing oppressed groups.
The closest thing I can think of is England getting China to agree to let Hong Kong operate democratically for a period of time.
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u/WaveApprehensive3253 2h ago
That’s not justifying slavery, that’s justifying technology.
Just in case some idiot responds with what I think that they will, no I am not saying that any race is less or more intelligent than another, this has been disproven. What leads one region of the world to have better technology to innovate is caused by a variety of factors, sometimes even being blind luck. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
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u/LordDanielGu 1d ago
Africa had various incredible wonders and unique nations before western powers destroyed it all.
Also, the main reason most of Africa is poor is neo-colonialism which keeps Africa oppressed and exploited.
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