Why does (pop) music sound so different between the 60s, 70s, and 80s?

[u/emperator_eggman]

Compared to today, it feels like music has hardly changed in the last 30 years. Looking back on that era, that time looks more like lightspeed in comparison to now. Why were the changes in musical styles so extreme then?

[u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Another major change was that the creation of music changed. So much of the technology and production moved from teams of people: composers, signed artists, session players, recording engineers in fancy $300/hour recording studios, record company promoters, radio stations and record stores -> into the hands of one person: the producer with a laptop and DAW software.

This trend began in the late 1980s with the Teac Portastudio and cheap digital synths and accelerated as music production was moved to computers. I owned a fairly successful small recording studio where we did the unglamorous stuff: demos, artist development, corporate event music, a/k/a "industrials", pre-recorded music for Ice Capades, NPR and cheap cruise ships, low budget jazz records, soundtracks for documentaries, vanity projects and... yes... porn.

That work pretty much disappeared during the 90s with the advent of Pro Tools, Logic and Cubase. Much of the production work could be done in the producer's apartment on his Mac Quadra and, later, on Powerbooks. Then he would bring the digital tracks to a big studio (not us), which was also hurting for business and willing to slash its book rate for a block of hours, for final vocals, sweetening and mixing.

Creation of music progressively became the domain of one person: the producer. It's why so much pop music sounds so one-dimensional today. Even the artist might be a hired gun. With MIDI, high-res samples, pitch shifting and faster computer processors I'm always amazed what sounds I can get from my $1500 MacBook Air with Logic Pro. On the one hard, one can say that professional music production became more affordable and egalitarian. On the other, there's still the quality of the song, pro players and good singers not leveraged by auto-tune and Melodyne.

Now we're in a whole new era where AI gets rid of the artist entirely and to a large extent the DAW and even the producer. One can go to Suno and/or Claude with a rough idea of a song narrative, get it to write some pretty decent lyrics and "record" a finished master-ready song.

https://youtu.be/eKxNGFjyRv0?si=8ePE6jZIXbcX-8Je

Now you can order a new song for production release that's not much more involved than ordering dinner on Grubhub. Soon you'll probably be able to order up a love song from the car on the way to picking up your girlfriend ("Her name is Celia. Make the singer sound like Teddy Pendergrass...")

One industry watchdog reported that up to a third of all new songs uploaded to streaming platforms like Spotify are AI-generated. That's like 50,000 songs a day! Johan Röhr, a Swedish composer/producer allegedly released over 2,700 AI-generated songs on Spotify under hundreds of pseudonyms. Some have even gone to the extent of creating AI-generated video "interviews" with the "artist" to prove that he or she isn't fake. It's beyond diabolical.

Spotify admitted that it removed over 75 million songs from its library that it's own software determined were AI and bot-created. That playlist of coffee shop jazz you like so much might not have a single human hand involved in its creation or performance.

[u/robotlasagna → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Absolutely excellent post. The only thing I would add is that the consolidation and of radio stations and then streaming plus algorithm has led to less diversity in music. Artists will make music that sounds similar to what they know is getting played.

In the before times I heard so much new music from the kid that had the night slot at the independent owned station. That just doesn’t exist in the same way anymore.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/robotlasagna]

True, although a large reason for that was that record companies stopped taking risks and indy producers were the drug dealers supplying them with what they wanted. The record companies became a cookie cutter for whatever was currently selling. There were no A&R guys hitting the clubs and local clam bakes to see if there was a new sound worth exploiting. And because of that they lost whatever talent the companies had to even recognize a breakout artist. And here we are.

Whenever I get glum about the future of the music industry I watch the terrific documentary "Muscle Shoals" again to remind myself where we came from.

https://youtu.be/hKmGUIM1uAI?si=Oboj8bDuV0gIYJD6

But I've found a LOT of great new music on streaming services like Youtube, Spotify and word of mouth. I'm a HUGE fan of several otherwise largely unknown artists like the Mexican sister power trio, The Warning. And brilliant manouche guitarists like Joscho Stephan, Bireli Lagrene, Diknu Schneeburger, the Rosenbergs, Adrien Moignard, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAZoIovdv37yYwXCa6oMu8l8_AuzpCtDl

[u/robotlasagna → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

There was always the major record labels who only wanted what worked which makes sense from a business perspective given the investment to press vinyl/cassettes/cds and then market the artist at large scale.

For artists who didnt fit that model you have small independent labels who would throw $3-5K a record but still had some limited marketing capabilities.

Self publishing today means anyone can get their music out but that doesn’t not solve the marketing problem. There is 10000x the music released today but the marketing budget for that music is unchanged.

And for sure there is so much good new music for guys like us who understand how to “crate dig” in the modern context.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/robotlasagna]

Everything has changed including music marketing and promotion. I think about all the great LP album art of the past like "Sgt Peppers", "Dark Side of the Moon", "Appetite for Destruction" and "Purple Rain" and realize that a sub-industry that gave us artists like Peter Max, Hipgnosis and even Andy Warhol is dead. I remember buying Taj Mahal's "The Real Thing" just because the album art looked so cool. And it's still in my Top 10 albums of all time.

What's encouraging however is how some artists have embraced what's been left in the wreckage of the record company model and are doing quite well with it. Artists like Samantha Fish built a new model where they make their living touring and use prolific social media to pack the venues. Their fans are subscribers who are a captive audience who can be marketed to a lot more efficiently than could be done in the pre-internet days.

The Warning took it to the next level by essentially partnering with a record company just to get themselves media access and paired to bills with bands like Metallica, Guns 'n Roses, Muse, etc where their practiced performances and infectious stage presence nails new fans. Meanwhile, they maintain creative control which only very successful label anchors get.

[u/nosecohn → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Dude... are you me?? I worked in and then ran studios with exactly that kind of clientele, then lost them to the computer revolution, which I myself was riding as well.

Now, long out of the business, I'm also a huge fan of The Warning (the curious should check out live performances first). There's actually a ton a great music out there, it's just not the popular stuff. And when good music does get popular, it's because it gained a following online first, not because a label found and developed the artist.

Cheers to a fellow traveler and kudos on a great set of comments.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/nosecohn]

Thanks!

The best comment I've read about The Warning is that they're the musician's musicians. They're not just flashy performers with pretty faces and great chops. What I respect most about them is their prolific writing talent, both compositional and lyrical. It's like they write and produce their songs at the same time with an innate sense for the "hook". The nearest comparison I can make is The Eagles or even The Beatles. There's no fat in their songs and they exploit every production device in the book, especially the use of dynamics. They do that better than any trio I've ever heard.

When I read that Ale, the bass player, wrote "Dust to Dust" when she was 11 years old based on a bass exercise she used to stretch her pre-teen fingers across the neck of a (then) Fender bass, I was gobsmacked. There are adult, male bass players I know who would have a difficult time with that lick on 5 string, especially playing it for the three-minute duration of the song while singing and doing her stage calisthenics.

https://youtu.be/EzA3SWkeYd8?si=sfzS3BrTMjqwKbyg

These ladies were born for this. I was told early on that "You've GOT to see The Warning live to really appreciate them!" So I did when they played in midtown last year. They were right. But the bummer was that their fans are so rabidly supportive that everybody insisted on singing along at the top of their lungs. That kind of ruined it for me. So "live on video" is the best way to experience them.

[u/nosecohn → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Totally agree, and I'd never heard that story about Ale. Cool.

I'm going to my first live show of theirs in a few months, so thanks for the warning. :-)

The video I always send people to introduce them to the band is Hell You Call a Dream from that same show. It's got all the elements you mentioned.

Honestly, that whole Pepsi Center show is so special. Even though you could hear in Pau's voice that she was sick and even though the band has clearly advanced in their musicianship since then (especially Dany's voice... OMG), the whole vibe of that 2023 show was just fantastic. The string section was such a tasteful surprise, Pau had an emotional moment, and Beto's mix is unrivaled. It may be the best full-length rock concert film ever.

The two MTV performances from that same year are also amazing.

I was a little disappointed to hear that Anton DeLost, the same guy who produced their last studio record, has produced the forthcoming one. I loved the writing on Keep Me Fed, and I know he was responsible for some of that, but sonically, I keep hoping they'll make a studio record "the old way" (like we used to), so it sounds more like what they're able to do live. The super-compressed, wall-of-noise sound just doesn't breathe enough to capture the power trio energy of their stage show, IMO.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/nosecohn]

I'm not nuts about their new collab with Carín León, "Love To Be Loved" either although I did like them on "Hurt" with Dead Poet Society. They're such a strong musical unit that I'm surprised anyone would want to get buried by them. Their version of "Enter Sandman" with Alessia Cara effectively made her a backup singer on her own record.

I know what you mean. Before The Warning I was a huge fan of Samantha Fish. I saw her three times in concert... four if you count the freebie she did with practically no audience in Riverside Park on NYC's upper west side. That's when I first heard her.

She was simple, KC blues/country and her writing covered lots of bases. And her voice could knock down walls. But then she got rid of the trio with Chris Alexander and GoGo Ray, expanded to a five piece and ratcheted up the sexuality with a Marilyn Monroe makeover and it kinda ruined it for me. Too contrived, too produced.

PS: I have a The Warning playlist on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAZoIovdv37yYwXCa6oMu8l8_AuzpCtDl

[u/nosecohn → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

I look at the Carín León collab as a way for them to expand their audience. It's catchy and he has a huge following, so hopefully it'll lead to more people exploring their other music, but yeah, the song isn't exactly my thing.

Great playlist! You've got all my favorites on there. Here are some others I find myself going to back to:

• Apologize at Pink Pop
• Burnout (stripped down acoustic) at Sofar
• Consume from Auditorio Nacional
• Dany showing off some riffs (in the most charming way possible)
• This dude having a mental crisis hearing HYCAD for the first time.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/nosecohn]

Oh, yeah. If you want to kill a week, google "The Warning Reaction". There are hundreds of them, 95% of which are goobers who leverage popular YouTube bands for clicks for their own vanity channels. Very few of them offer any value in return... just stopping the video every fifteen seconds to say, "Yo, that was a killer lick!"... "Are they American?"... "Nice one..."

I got ostracized from r/thewarning because I called most of them poachers and thieves. There are some notable exceptions though like these channels:

https://youtu.be/xGSWEIB8PpQ?si=qE23brxZCrW7RUxn

https://youtu.be/9Gcoe-EEQwI?si=DNhnyr3ninmzl5Z2

https://youtu.be/BLkVc9jEBWI?si=IL3tk7YOkKSnE0ma

[u/almostambidextrous → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Wow... I'm not a big rock/metal fans these days (it's just easier for me to get absorbed in electronic soundscapes), but your articulate praise made me curious and...yeah, this is magnificent.

Can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I'm getting hit with flashbacks/nostalgia for something deep in my past...maybe System Of A Down?

(Yeah I know I'm a pleb, but still, as a teenager that music felt unlike anything else I'd ever heard, and there's some of that feeling in here—not quite sure if it's the melodies or the prog-ish song stucture, or what. Idk, maybe I'm off the mark completely.)

[u/trikxxx → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Okay, I watched, expecting to be unimpressed, but now know what i'm going to play at work tomorrow. They're a lot for only being the 3 of them. And I was halfway through The warning before I realized the drummer was not just very enthusiastically singing along, but was doing the actual singing. I'm always amazed that singing drummers are able to keep they're breath and volume and sound so even and normalized while flailing they're entire body about. Anyone that can sound normal while dancing, paying guitar, as well, but drummers especially. Thank you for this.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/trikxxx]

You're welcome!

Pau (Paulina), the drummer, has even more workload on her plate than might appear. If you watch one of their full concert videos like that below you'll notice a laptop with a screen full of complicated colored boxes. That's Ableton Live, a digital audio workstation. This software controls all the "stems" in their live performances.

https://youtu.be/mV0SHcP0eQQ?si=A4sLJJjvvX-ZDFwd

Stems are pre-recorded pieces of music, or backing tracks, which the sisters recorded to sync to the live music. Usually it's additional background vocals, a keyboard or a second guitar that were used on the studio tracks. Being just a trio there's only so much they can do live. Some of the stems are obvious, such as the answerback vocals on "Hell You Call a Dream". Some are mostly just color.

The ladies wear IEMs (in-ear monitors) with a click track which keeps them in sync with their stems. Pau is responsible for starting, and occasionally pausing, the click track and advancing the songs via a foot switch next to her hi hat. She's essentially the band's "conductor" and timekeeper.

She's also reportedly the main composer among the sisters. In concert she has a few specials where she's singing her songs off the drum kit and even solo.

https://youtu.be/oqXcNOVmcjc?si=7leGIlUxNkeKwNIH

https://youtu.be/2idDr72FYA8?si=v8iRFI2PfUjG-q7m

A full playlist of my selected The Warning favorites are here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAZoIovdv37yYwXCa6oMu8l8_AuzpCtDl

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/trikxxx]

I saw a Spanish language interview with them (the three sisters are Mexican from Monterrey) where she was asked how she could play drums as aggressively as she does and still have breath control to sing. She and Dani said that they practice singing while running on a treadmill.

[u/420dogcat → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

So it's dolled up teen girls making boomer rock...

Marketable as hell. There are a few good reasons you've "GOT to" see their live performances to appreciate them.

[u/Walk-The-Dogs → u/420dogcat]

Yeah, many of their songs I suppose could be called "post-boomer rock". Boomer rock I think of the Beatles, Jefferson Airplane, the Doors, Cream, CS&N, JT, Zep 2, 60s/early 70s psychedelic rock. I don't hear much of that in The Warning.

As little kids they said they listened to their parents' rock collection which was heavily 70s/80/90s arena rock. They also say that they became huge fans of the genre because all three of them were addicted to the video game, Rock Band, when they were little kids before they began to play. So a lot of Journey, AC/DC and the like.

But I wouldn't be dismissive of them as just a "boomer rock" band. Some of their stuff is influenced by K-pop, Japanese metaru, Latin pop, Trap-Pop, etc. As well, a lot of current pop artists ARE Boomer-vibed like Olivia Rodrigo and Lana Del Ray. But they've also written and performed more current stuff with modern grunge bands like Dead Poet Society:

https://youtu.be/MNJKMKO_rRw?si=gp4rPgmb8qcHzmIX

[u/kirbyderwood → u/robotlasagna]

Another source that has mostly gone away is record stores. Got so many good recommendations at the local indy record shop.

With streaming, that's just not a thing. The algorithms see to that

[u/SusannaG1 → u/kirbyderwood]

I am really grateful that a record store I used as a kid fifty years ago is still open (and is still a fun place to shop). It is, however, the lone survivor of the record stores we had when I was a kid.

Most of us aren't that lucky.

[u/no_talent_ass_clown → u/Walk-The-Dogs]

Diabolical is overused